Meals

[mrsmaggy]

What does everyone charge for meals? mine are currently included in my hourly fee of £3.50 per hour but some mindee's are eating me out of house and home.

[loocyloo]

I currently include meals in my hourly fee, but I used to charge £1.00/lunch £2.00/tea for under 4 yr olds and then £1.50/lunch £3.00/tea for everyone else. I remember being told to base my charges on what either a hot school lunch would cost, or a happy meal

[MrsP2C]

Most of mine are included in my hourly rate but it's significantly higher than yours & even then I sometimes baulk at the amount of food they get through (especially fruit which is so expensive).

I'm not surprised you're wanting to charge extra for food & having just worked out costing for my tax return I'd do 75p for breakfast, £1.25 for lunch & £2.25 tea & remind parents that other snacks/drinks will still be included in the hourly rate.

[rickysmiths]

I currently include meals in my hourly fee, but I used to charge £1.00/lunch £2.00/tea for under 4 yr olds and then £1.50/lunch £3.00/tea for everyone else. I remember being told to base my charges on what either a hot school lunch would cost, or a happy meal

£3 for a dinner seems a lot to me if you don't mind my saying. You have to be able to support you costs to HMRC if they inspected your books and I think you might be pushed to do that.

I made Chili for a fund raising quiz night on Sat. It cost £12.10 (less than 30p a portion) had good quality mince loads of veg, onion, carrot, courgettes, pepper, mushrooms, celery,kidney beans, tomatoes and passata. It served 40 people on Baked potatoes with a portion that would be larger than my under 5s with a healthy appetite would eat and my 10 year old would eat and we sold 6 portions that were left at the end. So even adding some potato or rice and a pud of some sort the cost would come no where near £2.00/£3.00.

You can't base your food costs on what someone else charges for a meal. It has to be based on what it actually costs you to produce and you have to be able to prove this if asked.

[hectors house]

£3 for a dinner seems a lot to me if you don't mind my saying. You have to be able to support you costs to HMRC if they inspected your books and I think you might be pushed to do that.

I made Chili for a fund raising quiz night on Sat. It cost £12.10 (less than 30p a portion) had good quality mince loads of veg, onion, carrot, courgettes, pepper, mushrooms, celery,kidney beans, tomatoes and passata. It served 40 people on Baked potatoes with a portion that would be larger than my under 5s with a healthy appetite would eat and my 10 year old would eat and we sold 6 portions that were left at the end. So even adding some potato or rice and a pud of some sort the cost would come no where near £2.00/£3.00.

You can't base your food costs on what someone else charges for a meal. It has to be based on what it actually costs you to produce and you have to be able to prove this if asked.

If a portion of spag bolognese only costs you 75p to make and that's the cost you put through your accounts it doesn't matter what you charge the parents - some people find parents would rather pay £3.50 an hour and £2 or £3 for a meal rather than pay £4 an hour with meals included (for my 7 hour minimum contract day, it works out exactly the same price).

Went to a Providers evening last night where they said they are cutting the rate we get for 3 & 4 year funding - the advisor said we aren't allowed to charge top up hourly rates but we can charge for "extras" like snacks, meals, outings etc - so for some people charging £3 for a meal may be a way to make up the shortfall.

[rickysmiths]

Most of mine are included in my hourly rate but it's significantly higher than yours & even then I sometimes baulk at the amount of food they get through (especially fruit which is so expensive).

I'm not surprised you're wanting to charge extra for food & having just worked out costing for my tax return I'd do 75p for breakfast, £1.25 for lunch & £2.25 tea & remind parents that other snacks/drinks will still be included in the hourly rate.

75p for breakfast may I ask what you offer?

510g box of Rice Krispies £2 Tesco own Rice Snaps Value (440g) 79p Tesco Own Brand £1.99 (600g) Weekabix 72 pack £5.69 (8p each) 1kg Porridge Oats £1.20 for Tesco, £2.09 for Quaker.

I make porridge 60g oats and 1/2pt milk and it feeds 3 under 2s and me for breakfast total cost 20p for 4 of us.

2 weetabix plus milk 22p add a med banana 15p total cost 37p

Is the 75p etc what you are putting in your expenses for the cost of the meal because it sounds as if it is from what you say? If this is the case you can't do that you can round up an amount for each meal but it has to be close to the true cost of the ingredients for a meal. For example I put 30p through for Breakfast, 50p for a sandwich fruit lunch and 75p for a cooked dinner.

[rickysmiths]

If a portion of spag bolognese only costs you 75p to make and that's the cost you put through your accounts it doesn't matter what you charge the parents - some people find parents would rather pay £3.50 an hour and £2 or £3 for a meal rather than pay £4 an hour with meals included (for my 7 hour minimum contract day, it works out exactly the same price).

Went to a Providers evening last night where they said they are cutting the rate we get for 3 & 4 year funding - the advisor said we aren't allowed to charge top up hourly rates but we can charge for "extras" like snacks, meals, outings etc - so for some people charging £3 for a meal may be a way to make up the shortfall.

My understanding is that if the meal falls within the Funded hours you can't charge extra for it or a snack either so I would double check that advise. We have had clear written instruction that nothing extra can be charged during the 3 hours of daily funding that those three hours must be totally Free. That goes for outings as well, we can ask for a contribution but that is all and we can not exclude a child who does not contribute.

[hectors house]

My understanding is that if the meal falls within the Funded hours you can't charge extra for it or a snack either so I would double check that advise. We have had clear written instruction that nothing extra can be charged during the 3 hours of daily funding that those three hours must be totally Free. That goes for outings as well, we can ask for a contribution but that is all and we can not exclude a child who does not contribute.

We had one Nursery manager who attended and she said that they now charge every child whether on 2 or 3 / 4 year old funding or not, 30p for a snack during their funded sessions. Our guidance says we can charge for meals and snacks but we have to give the parent to supply their own if they don't want to pay. Wish the whole country was standardised as it's crazy that everyone has different criteria and different rates - our Local authority say you don't have to have a level 3 to do funding, but if you do you get an extra 72p per hour!

[loocyloo]

We had one Nursery manager who attended and she said that they now charge every child whether on 2 or 3 / 4 year old funding or not, 30p for a snack during their funded sessions. Our guidance says we can charge for meals and snacks but we have to give the parent to supply their own if they don't want to pay. Wish the whole country was standardised as it's crazy that everyone has different criteria and different rates - our Local authority say you don't have to have a level 3 to do funding, but if you do you get an extra 72p per hour!

Our nursery class charges every child 20p session for snack. And they are all funded children

[Elkie Mawdsley]

I charge 50p for breakfast and lunch and £1 for dinner - my mindee is 2 and eats like a sparrow! I put the cost of the ingredients used solely for cm purposes into my accounts book so I am writing in the actual cost - surely it then doesn't matter what I charge the parents?

[rickysmiths]

I charge 50p for breakfast and lunch and £1 for dinner - my mindee is 2 and eats like a sparrow! I put the cost of the ingredients used solely for cm purposes into my accounts book so I am writing in the actual cost - surely it then doesn't matter what I charge the parents?

No it doesn't matter what you charge the parent as long as the true cost of the food is entered into your accounts.

[rickysmiths]

We had one Nursery manager who attended and she said that they now charge every child whether on 2 or 3 / 4 year old funding or not, 30p for a snack during their funded sessions. Our guidance says we can charge for meals and snacks but we have to give the parent to supply their own if they don't want to pay. Wish the whole country was standardised as it's crazy that everyone has different criteria and different rates - our Local authority say you don't have to have a level 3 to do funding, but if you do you get an extra 72p per hour!

That is nuts!! I did my L3 so I could offer Funded Places but as I finished it that requirement was dropped.

[Simona]

Providing home cooked meals has always been a plus for cms but...we are now entering a different phase as most cms are able to deliver funded hours which often are below our normal rates and does not cover our expenses
So what to do now?

I think we need to move on with the times...either we charge or we continue to lose precious money that puts sustainability at risk
The funding is for education...there are ways to charge parents for extras such as meals or outings or....up the fees outside the funded hours which is what most preschools do...find me one where children do not take own fruit in each day or packed lunch?

They also set the times the education takes place...say 9-12pm so after that we could charge for lunch or ask for food to come from home...they seem to have it worked out so we must do that too

I have always suggested doing separate shopping for cminding...do not mix it with your family and the real cost will become obvious also include the cost of gas and electricity, petrol to get to the shops, insurance for your car, your time in cooking etc etc

Any other suggestions?

[Chatterbox Childcare]

My understanding is that if the meal falls within the Funded hours you can't charge extra for it or a snack either so I would double check that advise. We have had clear written instruction that nothing extra can be charged during the 3 hours of daily funding that those three hours must be totally Free. That goes for outings as well, we can ask for a contribution but that is all and we can not exclude a child who does not contribute.

You can't charge for an activity but you can charge for snacks and food or ask them to bring their own

[Chatterbox Childcare]

£3 for a dinner seems a lot to me if you don't mind my saying. You have to be able to support you costs to HMRC if they inspected your books and I think you might be pushed to do that.

I made Chili for a fund raising quiz night on Sat. It cost £12.10 (less than 30p a portion) had good quality mince loads of veg, onion, carrot, courgettes, pepper, mushrooms, celery,kidney beans, tomatoes and passata. It served 40 people on Baked potatoes with a portion that would be larger than my under 5s with a healthy appetite would eat and my 10 year old would eat and we sold 6 portions that were left at the end. So even adding some potato or rice and a pud of some sort the cost would come no where near £2.00/£3.00.

You can't base your food costs on what someone else charges for a meal. It has to be based on what it actually costs you to produce and you have to be able to prove this if asked.

I charge £2.50 per meal - I don't have to justify the cost to the HMRC but I do have to prove what I spent on food.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

75p for breakfast may I ask what you offer?

510g box of Rice Krispies £2 Tesco own Rice Snaps Value (440g) 79p Tesco Own Brand £1.99 (600g) Weekabix 72 pack £5.69 (8p each) 1kg Porridge Oats £1.20 for Tesco, £2.09 for Quaker.

I make porridge 60g oats and 1/2pt milk and it feeds 3 under 2s and me for breakfast total cost 20p for 4 of us.

2 weetabix plus milk 22p add a med banana 15p total cost 37p

Is the 75p etc what you are putting in your expenses for the cost of the meal because it sounds as if it is from what you say? If this is the case you can't do that you can round up an amount for each meal but it has to be close to the true cost of the ingredients for a meal. For example I put 30p through for Breakfast, 50p for a sandwich fruit lunch and 75p for a cooked dinner.

We can put what we want, no justification needed unless you split it up. I do mine by receipt so my costs are true to the day I brought it

[LauraS]

I agree with chatterbox, I put through more than 75p for breakfast and hmrc won't ask me to justify it, but will expect me to prove my spending which are two different things. We eat lots, breakfast would be cereal and toast or pastries, a couple of portions of fruit each, perhaps a glass of milk. A portion of soft fruit alone can be 50p easily.

[Muddy Puddles]

meals
Interesting post I do something different.
I have children of different ages who come for breakfast. Its a big gap in provision in this area.I ask parents to provide me with a box of cereal which the children name and keep at my house.
I provide milk bread and fruit if needed that I claim for through my books. so don't charge anything to parents for breakfast.Occasionally children arrive with special breakfast treats for us all to share.I provide a cooked evening meal for £2.15 which parents comment is very good value.

[bunyip]

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That is nuts!! I did my L3 so I could offer Funded Places but as I finished it that requirement was dropped.

You have my every sympathy. I had exactly the same thing. In my case, there was less than a week between being awarded level 3 and finding out I'd wasted a massive chunk of my free time on a tinpot, ticklist qualification for 5oddall reason.

My LA is totally confused about 'extra' charges for funded children. I know some CMs have been told they can charge, whilst others have been told the opposite. I was told I cannot, and furthermore, I must not expect funded children to bring packed lunch whilst I provide meals for the non-funded mindees, as that is providing an inferior service (they've clearly not sampled my cooking .) They did suggest I define a lunch hour outside of morning and afternoon "funded sessions". Then I could make up my "losses" by charging for that hour and the meal provided therein. Typical of an LA to over-complicate what could otherwise be simple.

I agree that only the cost of providing food should be including on our accounts for tax purposes. Remember that can include wastage, etc.

But you can charge what you like for meals. It's another of the reasons I get sick of hearing about the "extortionate" cost of childcare. Not only are we feeding the children, usually much better food than the ding-meals they get in front of Netflix at home, but we're saving ma & pa a lot of time, preparation, washing-up, etc. and they ain't paying for it. They'd pay a h3ll of a lot more to eat anywhere else outside their homes, but somehow a CM is different? We're still a 'food business' with all the associated costs and regulations. And it's no good arguing that food isn't our core service: that doesn't apply when you take lo's to another service/attraction/event and want to buy food. Next time you're at soft-play, have a glance at the menu and compare: imagine you were charging similar for meals/snacks/drinks.

Personally I include them in my fee, cos I find parents get fed up with all the little extras that other CMs slap on the bill whilst trying to look cheap with low advertised hourly fees. But that's just me. I think it would be more honest and realistic if we all charged inclusive fees that did some justice to the service we're providing., rather than trying to look cheap and encourage clients to treat us like we're cheap and then charge unpopular extras.

I dislike the constant spewing of advice that we should always look at what everyone else is doing first in every aspect of our fees/charges. This sort of bad advice has done more than anything else to depress the earnings of CMs.

[TinyTinker]

I include meals in my hourly rate - they get whatever meals their sessions cover - I offer breakfast, lunch, dinner with am and pm snack.....there is a set amount for each child - if I find I have a child that is wanting more than I feel is adequate for their day - I ask parents to provide a snack (that adheres to school policy iyswim)