Non paying parent during notice period where do I stand?

**KateA** · 01-05-2014, 06:39 PM

Hello,

Can any one help I gave notice to a client who was term time only during Easter holidays, they decided their child was not returning to me for the notice period which would have started on his first day back with me. So I issued them with the final invoice ( I take money in advance) and so have had a 11 days to pay. Fees where due into my account and cleared by today. No payment has been made.

Now my question is I took off their deposit which was £100 as at time they did not owe any money. Can I now re added it on and re invoice then as they are in breach of contract ? Or is not the done thing to do?

Thank you for any help

**Mouse** · 01-05-2014, 07:12 PM

Personally, if I gave notice to a parent, I wouldn't expect them to stay for the 4 weeks notice period. I always think it's a bit like me saying "here you are, I'm giving notice as I don't want you here anymore, but you must keep coming and paying for the next 4 weeks as I don't want to lose my money!"

I see the 4 week notice period as being there to allow the other party (the one being given notice) time to make other arrangements. So if a parent gives you notice you ask for 4 weeks money to give you time to replace the child. If you give a parent notice, it gives them 4 weeks to find a new childminder or make other arrangements. If they don't need that long, I don't think it's unreasonable to let them go before the end of the notice period.

Just my personal opinion, of course. I'm sure others will have other thoughts

**Mouse** · 01-05-2014, 07:14 PM

Sorry, didn't really answer your question!

If it were me and as long as they have paid for all the days you have worked, I would let it go.

**shortstuff** · 02-05-2014, 05:25 AM

I have to say I agree with Mouse. You have been paid for most of the notice period so I would return the deposit in full.

**alex__17** · 02-05-2014, 07:05 AM

If you're the one giving the notice because you don't want them anymore if it were me (slightly similar happening at the mo) I'd rather not have the awkwardness of them having to attend for 4 weeks...
Thought that 4 weeks was to give either party time to find alternative care/mindee.
I'm waiting for a parent to let me know if she wants to use the 4 week notice period or leave immediately, I'd much rather leave immediately even though haven't filled space just in case she wants to use it, which is her choice to do so as long as she pays for it.
I guess it comes down to why notice has been given...

**bunyip** · 02-05-2014, 08:12 AM

There are a few issues going on here. Bear in mind, I've not seen your contracts (the content of which is critical, so I'm making the admittedly dodgy assumption they are along the lines of the 'average' CMing contract - whatever that is

.)

The first thing I'd say is that I agree with Mouse. If I'd given notice, I'd give the client the option to leave early and pay only for the care actually provided. This is a personal opinion based on what I'd do (so no need to join the ever-growing crowd of those who 'take offence' at me for being different.)

However, subject to contract, you are within your rights to charge for the notice period, even if you gave the notice, and even if they don't use your service. Whether that's a good idea, all things considered (reputation, customer relations, etc.) is another debate......

Did your letter of termination specify a date for the end of the arrangement, or did you just say "4 weeks' notice"? Even for a TTO arrangement (and notwithstanding the much-misunderstood 'notice during holiday' note in the NCMA/pacey contracts) 4 weeks' notice is legally understood as 4 weeks from the date notice is given, unless you have specified a later date for termination.

If you have specified a date which is more than 4 weeks from the date of your termination letter, that's OK - you're giving more than the minimum contacted period of notice, which is fine. But that does give the client the opportunity to counter by giving you 4 weeks notice and thereby bring forward the end date.

F'rinstance:
I issue notice to the client. Letter dated Monday 14 April (1st day of Anyshire School's Easter hols). "Here's your notice. I am available (and jolly-well expect to be paid) for 4 weeks' provision of care as from Monday 28 April. Last day of care will be Friday 23 May. Thanks, it's been a pleasure, etc. Sincere love & hugs, bunyip"
My client is perfectly entitled to reply on the same day, as follows. Letter dated Monday 14 April. "Dear bunyip, thanks for your letter. I hereby give notice that I shall no longer require your services as from 4 calendar weeks from today. The last day of care (and for which payment will be made) will therefore be Monday 12 May. May I take this opportunity to say how wonderful you are in every way and that I have always admired your charm, wit and charisma from afar, you hunky sex-god, you.

etc....)

And finally................. I'll get around to answering the original question about how to invoice the whole thing. The proper thing to do would be to invoice the whole thing for the service provided (or available to be provided, assuming they aren't coming and you're still asserting your right to charge). Then I'd also issue a statement, showing the total invoiced amount + any other outstanding fees/charges - the deposit held = amount due, please pay by (## date).

That's it...........

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 02-05-2014, 08:16 AM

If they owe you £200 I would take off the £100 deposit and bill for the rest. Speak to your insurance company as you pay for their advice as it is professional, where anyone posting on here is offering their opinion.

**tess1981** · 02-05-2014, 10:27 AM

"The first thing I'd say is that I agree with Mouse. If I'd given notice, I'd give the client the option to leave early and pay only for the care actually provided. This is a personal opinion based on what I'd do (so no need to join the ever-growing crowd of those who 'take offence' at"

Nicely put...... Mr B
But the sex god bit??? A profile pic would clear this up lol

**rickysmiths** · 02-05-2014, 12:38 PM

I don't see why just because the cm gave notice the client shouldn't want to use the notice weeks? I had one leave yesterday, the end of the two week notice period. I gave notice in the correct way, they chose not to come today and they paid for the notice period and there were no problems at all. The child starts with their new cm next week, one I helped them find.

If you expect the parent to pay for the Notice period if they give cm notice and then choose not to use the space then it should work the other way around as well.

**FussyElmo** · 02-05-2014, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by KateA

Hello,

Can any one help I gave notice to a client who was term time only during Easter holidays, they decided their child was not returning to me for the notice period which would have started on his first day back with me. So I issued them with the final invoice ( I take money in advance) and so have had a 11 days to pay. Fees where due into my account and cleared by today. No payment has been made.

Now my question is I took off their deposit which was £100 as at time they did not owe any money. Can I now re added it on and re invoice then as they are in breach of contract ? Or is not the done thing to do?

Thank you for any help

Going back to the OPs question.

So you gave the parent the final invoice but knocked the £100 deposit off.

Im thinking they will still only owe you the amount with the £100 deducted I cant see how you can add it on just because they have not paid you yet.

I would also think if you end up taking it further you will always need to deduct the £100

**KateA** · 02-05-2014, 07:43 PM

Hi thanks for all replies, I have left the invoice how it is and sent them polite reminder that it is due. Does not bother me they left early as up to them and personally glad, but as they left owning money they still need to pay it as far as I am concerned.

x

**bunyip** · 02-05-2014, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by tess1981

"The first thing I'd say is that I agree with Mouse. If I'd given notice, I'd give the client the option to leave early and pay only for the care actually provided. This is a personal opinion based on what I'd do (so no need to join the ever-growing crowd of those who 'take offence' at"

Nicely put...... Mr B
But the sex god bit??? A profile pic would clear this up lol

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

A profile pic would shatter the illusion.

(Why do you think I don't have one?)

**tess1981** · 02-05-2014, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by bunyip

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

A profile pic would shatter the illusion.

(Why do you think I don't have one?)

Lol I suppose illusion is better than reality

mmmmm Gerard Butler

**alwaysright** · 10-05-2014, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

I don't see why just because the cm gave notice the client shouldn't want to use the notice weeks? I had one leave yesterday, the end of the two week notice period. I gave notice in the correct way, they chose not to come today and they paid for the notice period and there were no problems at all. The child starts with their new cm next week, one I helped them find.

If you expect the parent to pay for the Notice period if they give cm notice and then choose not to use the space then it should work the other way around as well.

this is my thoughts exactly! why would you expect parents not to pay just because you are the one giving notice?? i have had notice a number of times from parents for lot sof different reasons and i always expect 4 weeks notice, i wouldnt say oh you've give me notice so i dont want the embarrassment of seeing you every day for the next four weeks, if i did they could sue me for breach of contract!

**KateA** · 13-05-2014, 10:16 AM

Hi quick up date the parents have refused to pay so have now raised claim with my insurance company, I really do not understand why people treat childminders this way they would not treat a nursery this way. Just because I gave notice does not mean contract is no longer valid. I am really surprised they would want this to go to debt handlers as the dad is a head teacher at local school!

This was my first client and its left me doubting if I want to continue being a childminder.

x

**tess1981** · 13-05-2014, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by KateA

Hi quick up date the parents have refused to pay so have now raised claim with my insurance company, I really do not understand why people treat childminders this way they would not treat a nursery this way. Just because I gave notice does not mean contract is no longer valid. I am really surprised they would want this to go to debt handlers as the dad is a head teacher at local school!

This was my first client and its left me doubting if I want to continue being a childminder.

x

Not a parents are like this. I gave notice to a parent one time and in the termination letter I stated 4 weeks fee was due at contract didn't end until X date. She continues to send child until the last day and paid no problem.

**Mouse** · 13-05-2014, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by KateA

Hi quick up date the parents have refused to pay so have now raised claim with my insurance company, I really do not understand why people treat childminders this way they would not treat a nursery this way. Just because I gave notice does not mean contract is no longer valid. I am really surprised they would want this to go to debt handlers as the dad is a head teacher at local school!

This was my first client and its left me doubting if I want to continue being a childminder.

x

Out of interest, why did you give the family notice?

**rickysmiths** · 13-05-2014, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by KateA

Hi quick up date the parents have refused to pay so have now raised claim with my insurance company, I really do not understand why people treat childminders this way they would not treat a nursery this way. Just because I gave notice does not mean contract is no longer valid. I am really surprised they would want this to go to debt handlers as the dad is a head teacher at local school!

This was my first client and its left me doubting if I want to continue being a childminder.

x

Oh please don't loose heart over one silly parent who thinks you will cave in. Most parents are lovely and sensible however we have to have robust procedures in place to take account for the odd ones who are not.

This is why I take a four weeks fee as a Deposit and hold it until the end of the Contract. This means I am always paid for my Notice period, it also means I have 4 weeks fees in hand against non payment. I have in my Contract that if payment is more than one working week late childcare will cease until all fee are paid up to date, as I have the 4 weeks fees deposit I am never out of pocket until the four weeks is up if you see what I mean. Normal parents will always get their Deposit back because it is used to pay for the last 4 weeks of the Contract which often helps if they are moving on because they don't pay me the last four weeks and so have the money for a Deposit elsewhere. I keep Deposit money in a different account so I can pay myself when the time comes!

I also think you have to be very clear and honest with parents from the interview stage so they know the way your charging works this then needs to be stated clearly in your Policies and on your Contracts so there can never be a miss understanding and a parent can't turn round and say 'I didn't know.'

**KateA** · 15-05-2014, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Mouse

Out of interest, why did you give the family notice?

HI, the little mindee was a complete nightmare would have none stop temper tantrums all day long each one last over a hour and nothing I did would get him to stop. He would have them if I went near my own or other children, if I left the room, if did not hold him constantly in his arms. I felt he was trying to control me I have never meet an one year old like this before.

I started to dread him coming and lost nearly half stone through the stress. His parents were not interested in working with me to try and change this behaviour and I got the impression he was like it at home and that's why mum had gone back to work to get away from him. It got so bad I could not go to groups as he would just scream at me none stop even when held, and when I held another baby so the mum could go to the toilet he went in a rage and start to hit and bit me. It was just the final straw after nearly 13 weeks of having him every day I gave the parents notice as he was making me ill and could not see him hetting any better if anything he was gradually getting worse.

**Mouse** · 15-05-2014, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by KateA

HI, the little mindee was a complete nightmare would have none stop temper tantrums all day long each one last over a hour and nothing I did would get him to stop. He would have them if I went near my own or other children, if I left the room, if did not hold him constantly in his arms. I felt he was trying to control me I have never meet an one year old like this before.

I started to dread him coming and lost nearly half stone through the stress. His parents were not interested in working with me to try and change this behaviour and I got the impression he was like it at home and that's why mum had gone back to work to get away from him. It got so bad I could not go to groups as he would just scream at me none stop even when held, and when I held another baby so the mum could go to the toilet he went in a rage and start to hit and bit me. It was just the final straw after nearly 13 weeks of having him every day I gave the parents notice as he was making me ill and could not see him hetting any better if anything he was gradually getting worse.

Sounds horrendous

I'm afraid my first comments still stand though. If a child is so bad that it's making you ill, why on earth would you want to force parents to bring the child to you for another 4 weeks? To me that just doesn't make sense. I'd have made sure they had paid me for everything I had worked, but would have happily waved them off as soon as they wanted to go.

I hope you get your money from them, if that's what you want to do, but I would have let the walk away & thanked my lucky stars they had gone.

Hopefully the next family you get will be lovely (as the majority are) and you'll find out what a great job this can be