parents not giving notice & paying final fees

**amy douglas** · 11-07-2013, 08:12 PM

Hi everyone, i hope I can get some clarity & help on my situation. I had a baby in april & worked right up to when i had him. Since i gave birth, on several of occasions i have told one of my parents via text and verbally that i can return to work. I had no definite answer from the parent at the time so left the ball in their court assuming they would get in contact-they didnt, so i text her this week to ask whether she still requires my service & she has now put her child into a nursery & doesnt need me anymore. I cant help but think she wouldn,t have told me this unless i had contacted her. I informed her that we have a contract that requires her to give me 4 weeks notice & this needs to be paid for. She replied to this by saying I had not given any dates for my maternity leave when in actual fact i had told her on several occasions I am available to work again, unfortunately I didnt write it in a letter but told her verbally & in a text. I dont think she is going to pay up, so where does this leave me? i was thinking about posting a letter to see if this has any effect. I also did extras such as drop the child off at home on several occasions which I didnt charge extra for when I should have. They also often dropped off & picked the child up late as well.

**peanuts** · 11-07-2013, 08:21 PM

you are on maternity leave and returning to work. Have these parents being paid retainers for the space to be there for returning. if not i cannot see how you can charge 4 weeks notice. yes it was rude of them not to tell you they now use a nursery. but from their point of view you were not available due to maternity leave, they need child care so chose a nursery. it is their choice where they send child. before when i was on maternity i told parents when i finished up that i would have a month off and would be returning to minding on a certain date. parents and myself knew who was and who wasnt coming back as some had to arrange other childcare.
its better to have things in writing so you have proof. (to protect yourself also)

**serin** · 11-07-2013, 08:22 PM

Oh dear. A lesson well learnt. Is it worth the fight??? Maybe like you said try sending them a letter saying it is legally binding....

**amy douglas** · 11-07-2013, 08:44 PM

i am not still on maternity leave, i returned to work after a couple of weeks as i only hav a few school runs and had this one on one morning a week. i clearly told the parent i was working again, i think they may just b using this as an excuse so they don't feel so bad about not using me anymore, the parent was not very good with communicating with me. sometimes i had the child extra days & when i would reply to say i could hav her i would not get any confirmation & was left to assume it was ok. i hav always been professional & made sure that the correct paperwork was filled in & signed including the contract.

**peanuts** · 11-07-2013, 08:46 PM

if it is only one morning a week it may not be worth persueing them through small claims court.

**bindy** · 11-07-2013, 09:03 PM

I think small claims there is a minimal of £50, could be a little higher, also you can claim the cost of filing small claims, so could be worth your while. Why don't you send her a letter saying you are going to small claims and the cost would be higher for them if you win. It will not cost that much for you has your claim is not much( well I don't know that, but only one morning a week!!) It's all done on the computer so not much effort on your part( did it once and won) at one point had to go to the local court to swear on the bible. Most people who are taken to small claims give- in because they don't want the hassle, make sure you tell them in the letter, once you apply to the courts you will need the cost on top of the months notice if they want to settle it. Thinking about it, the court will have expected you to write and give them time to pay, maybe a week or two before applying to them. They want to see you have tried to sort it out! Good luck , they should give you notice end of.. I am very stubborn with things like this, if only £50 its the principle and I hate it when people think they can s..t on you.

**CLL** · 11-07-2013, 09:12 PM

I don't think this is worth the aggro for 4 mornings pay. Even if it amounts to £100 it is not worth the reputation of your business, bad word of mouth is damaging. Just cut your losses and move on.

**Mouse** · 11-07-2013, 09:19 PM

Personally, I would let it go. For one morning a week & in a situation that isn't straight forward, I would just write it off.

If you do want to push for the 4 weeks notice though, speak to your insurance company first, before you send any letters or threaten any further proceedings. They will tell you where you stand legally and you can decide then what you want to do. If they do agree parents need to pay you the notice period, you have a stronger case if it's confirmed by the legal department.

**bunyip** · 12-07-2013, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Mouse

Personally, I would let it go. For one morning a week & in a situation that isn't straight forward, I would just write it off.

If you do want to push for the 4 weeks notice though, speak to your insurance company first, before you send any letters or threaten any further proceedings. They will tell you where you stand legally and you can decide then what you want to do. If they do agree parents need to pay you the notice period, you have a stronger case if it's confirmed by the legal department.

I agree with Mouse.

Btw, Amy, are your maternity arrangements covered in the contract/policies/or anywhere else in writing? Did you, for eg, notify the client in advance that "I shall be closed for a maternity break between [date] and [date]" ? IIUC it looks more like you had a sort of open-ended "closed until further notice" arrangement.

Playing Devil's advocate for a moment, I suspect the parents would argue they needed to plan their childcare arrangements. Maybe they saw it as unsatisfactory to not know when you'd re-open and just rely on a call to say you were working again. Possibly a court/solicitor might uphold their point of view as "reasonable" in law - so worth running this by your legal team before proceeding.

**bindy** · 12-07-2013, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by bunyip

I agree with Mouse.

Btw, Amy, are your maternity arrangements covered in the contract/policies/or anywhere else in writing? Did you, for eg, notify the client in advance that "I shall be closed for a maternity break between [date] and [date]" ? IIUC it looks more like you had a sort of open-ended "closed until further notice" arrangement.

Playing Devil's advocate for a moment, I suspect the parents would argue they needed to plan their childcare arrangements. Maybe they saw it as unsatisfactory to not know when you'd re-open and just rely on a call to say you were working again. Possibly a court/solicitor might uphold their point of view as "reasonable" in law - so worth running this by your legal team before proceeding.

What legal team are you talking about? I tried to talk with MM about my notice period, no advice at all, told me it was a personal matter, they just cover personal liability! Nice if she got some advice but like I said I got no joy.( I am a member of NCMA they told me to send a letter regarding small claims.) I was only saying small claims is there, it's easy to use and costs are very low and she has nothing to lose if she does not win, only around £25. I did it regarding notice period, I was told all sorts by my client, "You did not give me notice about some changes" etc etc( I changed me setting slightly) I still went ahead and won! If she feels strongly about her one morning, which should not be belittled in anyway, because its only one morning, not many people would work one morning for no pay! Just giving her advice .

**amy douglas** · 12-07-2013, 10:11 AM

Thank you all very much for your advice. I think I might have to just leave it but am really annoyed to be treated like this just for having a baby. It may have only been one morning a week & its £80 they owe me for the 4 week notice period & in the grand scheme of things isnt that much but its still £80 & i could do a lot with that money. I clearly told the parent I could have the child again even if it wasn't in writing so just feel like I have been s**t on really. I might speak to MM to see if I get any joy, u never know until u ask.

**Mouse** · 12-07-2013, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by amy douglas

Thank you all very much for your advice. I think I might have to just leave it but am really annoyed to be treated like this just for having a baby. It may have only been one morning a week & its £80 they owe me for the 4 week notice period & in the grand scheme of things isnt that much but its still £80 & i could do a lot with that money. I clearly told the parent I could have the child again even if it wasn't in writing so just feel like I have been s**t on really. I might speak to MM to see if I get any joy, u never know until u ask.

I can understand why you feel upset by it. Really, it was unfair of mum not to tell you straight away that she was putting the child in a nursery.

Definitely speak to MM and see what they say

**bunyip** · 12-07-2013, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by bindy

What legal team are you talking about? I tried to talk with MM about my notice period, no advice at all, told me it was a personal matter, they just cover personal liability! Nice if she got some advice but like I said I got no joy.( I am a member of NCMA they told me to send a letter regarding small claims.) I was only saying small claims is there, it's easy to use and costs are very low and she has nothing to lose if she does not win, only around £25. I did it regarding notice period, I was told all sorts by my client, "You did not give me notice about some changes" etc etc( I changed me setting slightly) I still went ahead and won! If she feels strongly about her one morning, which should not be belittled in anyway, because its only one morning, not many people would work one morning for no pay! Just giving her advice .

I agree. The small claims route is there, and a perfectly legitimate one to take.

I'm surprised and disappointed to hear that MM wouldn't give legal advice on a notice period. They make quite a thing of the legal advice line/debt recovery thing in their website and promotional material. In fact, I've heard of a lot of CMs switching to MM expressly because the CMs believed MM were much more supportive than NCMA/pacey when it comes to contracts and legal advice. Maybe they were just following 'wishful thinking' after all?

i wouldn't want to belittle the amount either. That said, there is a sensible business case for asking ones-self, "is this an amount of money I'm prepared to work an additional #hours on legal work in order to possibly recover?"

Similarly, a CM can only decide for her/himself as to the possible business/reputational consequences of taking or not taking action. Pursue a debt and we can find ourselves being branded "mean" and "unfriendly" by all the parents in the playground. Don't pursue it and everyone thinks we're a "pushover".

It's a difficult call to make, and I wouldn't want to have to make that decision.

**bindy** · 12-07-2013, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by bunyip

I agree. The small claims route is there, and a perfectly legitimate one to take.

I'm surprised and disappointed to hear that MM wouldn't give legal advice on a notice period. They make quite a thing of the legal advice line/debt recovery thing in their website and promotional material. In fact, I've heard of a lot of CMs switching to MM expressly because the CMs believed MM were much more supportive than NCMA/pacey when it comes to contracts and legal advice. Maybe they were just following 'wishful thinking' after all?

i wouldn't want to belittle the amount either. That said, there is a sensible business case for asking ones-self, "is this an amount of money I'm prepared to work an additional #hours on legal work in order to possibly recover?"

Similarly, a CM can only decide for her/himself as to the possible business/reputational consequences of taking or not taking action. Pursue a debt and we can find ourselves being branded "mean" and "unfriendly" by all the parents in the playground. Don't pursue it and everyone thinks we're a "pushover".

It's a difficult call to make, and I wouldn't want to have to make that decision.

The reason I took out MM hearing the same but was shocked at how little advice they did give me. made me feel a little stupid! Anyway I understand completely what you say. My notice was for £600, would I do it for £150/200 don't know may be I would, but I found using small claims stress free, and cheap, all done on the internet and my personality is such , I don't really care what other think of me! May be one day that will come back and bite me on the bum!

**amy douglas** · 29-07-2013, 09:08 AM

Well, i spoke to MM & had to wait for them to get back to me & they are unable to put a claim in for me because the money I'm owed is less than £100. They were very helpful & gave me a number to ring where I could get free legal advice. So ive been advised to write a letter to the parents, they even let me ring them back to read the letter to them to make sure it was ok. I found them v nice & helpful as i asked a million questions as I want to deal with the situation appropriately & professionally. So lets just wait & see if the letter has any effect, im not getting my hopes up, but hey, at least ive tried.

**Kittycat** · 30-07-2013, 10:16 AM

I had a parent like that,
Her husband and her thought it was ok to give notice via the phone,
When I stated they actually owed me £200 for 4 weeks notice period, they refused as his wife had a big who ha about not being clearly stated in my policy's
I was a new cm at the time and out it down to a very expensive lesson, and didn't want my name being mud so early on, so let it slide,
I would put it down to experience and move on

**kellyskidz!** · 30-07-2013, 10:28 AM

The way I see it is if you worked for a company one day/morning a week and they said we're giving you your 4 weeks notice but we don't need you to come in so we won't be paying you, would you accept that?!
I wouldn't, £80 is £80 so I would be taking it further, why should they sign an agreement to pay 4 weeks notice and then not pay it?
Mat leave or not, it was their choice to put child in a nursery and I get why they did, but by avoiding contact with their cm when she told them she was returning to work looks very suspect to me, like they knew they had to pay the 4 weeks and were trying to avoid the issue.
From the sounds they didn't give actual notice so they should pay up.
As has been said, don't be s**t on, you owe them nothing, but they owe you £80
If you let all incidents like this this go where would that leave us, I don't think it would reflect badly on your business to ask for money you are legally owed. If parents don't like it, don't sign contracts and be up front with your childminder!

**adedwards68** · 30-07-2013, 10:41 AM

This is a difficult one! I know £80 is £80 but I would put it done to experience.
I use to charge parents in arrears until one left suddenly owing me a months pay, the previous cheque had bounced so they owed me over £1000. Then decided to declare themselves 'bankrupt', moved and didn't pay the minimal amounts and nothing more could be done
Needless to say parents pay in advance, and no cheques!