not wanting to pay during school holidays

Keeley77 · 30-08-2012, 11:37 AM

Have just signed new contract for 22month old.

However the mum has rung to ask if they can take them out for the summer holidays as they will be putting older siblings with family and want to do the same with the youngest.

the contract says full pay during child holidays.

How would you handle this?

I'm considering charging a retainer for the school holidays and full charge for any other holidays taken?

What would you guys do in theses circumstances? Obviously I dont want to loose the contract but i'm not totally happy about them not paying anything during the summer holidays!!

**Mollymop** · 30-08-2012, 11:44 AM

Does parent want you all other times such as term time and other school hols- is it just the 6 weeks hols she doesn't want to pay you?
If that's the case she does need to pay for the 6 weeks hol too, she can't just pick and chose it is not fair on you at all. I would expect full fees - you are within your rights but it depends really on what you want to do, are you prepared to let her take the kids out and not pay you in the 6 weeks - would you be prepared to accept a retainer to keep their space open? Would she leave if you were not to agree and would that be ok with you if she did?

**Mouse** · 30-08-2012, 11:45 AM

I would work out how much you will be losing out if they took the child out of your care for 6 weeks, then divide that amount by the number of weeks the child will be with you and add it on to your current fee.

Then tell parents that the fee you've quoted includes a discount for an all year round space. As they now want to exclude the summer holidays you will need to charge them your normal rate, which is higher.

It could work nicely. You'd still be earning the same amount of money over a year, but would have 6 weeks off from the child in the summer. Parents think they are getting the 6 weeks holidays at no fee

Be strict about dates. Look on the internet for school dates & tell them that the "no fee" period only applies between the dates given. Full fee is due at ALL other times the child isn't with you (apart from your time off).

jumpinjen · 30-08-2012, 11:47 AM

Hmmmmm - tricky, is it one of your full time places? Are you happier to have a quieter holiday? They have already signed and are changing - I think you could explain to them that the little one takes up a full time space that you had offered them thinking that it was a year round contract, and that to work it like that they will need to pay a retainer during the holidays - are you happy with half fee? Or could you look at it and say, well full fee is £147 for example, so a £100/week retainer is payable? I wouldn't be very happy with them changing it now!

Jen x

**loocyloo** · 30-08-2012, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

I would work out how much you will be losing out if they took the child out of your care for 6 weeks, then divide that amount by the number of weeks the child will be with you and add it on to your current fee.

Then tell parents that the fee you've quoted includes a discount for an all year round space. As they now want to exclude the summer holidays you will need to charge them your normal rate, which is higher.

It could work nicely. You'd still be earning the same amount of money over a year, but would have 6 weeks off from the child in the summer. Parents think they are getting the 6 weeks holidays at no fee

Be strict about dates. Look on the internet for school dates & tell them that the "no fee" period only applies between the dates given. Full fee is due at ALL other times the child isn't with you (apart from your time off).

thats what i do !!! also make sure that if they only want the 6 weeks off for the summer, that they sign to agree this and that they pay full fees for the rest of the time. x

Keeley77 · 30-08-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

I would work out how much you will be losing out if they took the child out of your care for 6 weeks, then divide that amount by the number of weeks the child will be with you and add it on to your current fee.

Then tell parents that the fee you've quoted includes a discount for an all year round space. As they now want to exclude the summer holidays you will need to charge them your normal rate, which is higher.

It could work nicely. You'd still be earning the same amount of money over a year, but would have 6 weeks off from the child in the summer. Parents think they are getting the 6 weeks holidays at no fee

Be strict about dates. Look on the internet for school dates & tell them that the "no fee" period only applies between the dates given. Full fee is due at ALL other times the child isn't with you (apart from your time off).

**This is a great idea, but unfortunately she knows my set fees and day rates etc, so I don't think I will be able do this! I'm guessing the only option is a retainer fee? I will give that a shot and see what sort of response I get. Need to tread carefully I as I really don't want to loose the contract.

thank for the responses!!

***Mum also mentioned about me taking my holidays during the summer holidays - ie one or two weeks where no payment due as i'm on my holidays, I guess this is something to consider as I probably would want some leave then? Maybe charge a retainer for the 4 weeks left? Although would mean i'd only be able to take another 5 days during the rest of the year. oh eck - why do they have to complicate things!! lol

**Goatgirl** · 30-08-2012, 01:24 PM

Hi

,
I'd explain you set your charges based on what you need to earn from your available spaces to earn enough money to make your business viable.
Then I'd give parents 2 options: an enhanced rate and no charge for the fixed number of weeks and have dates confirmed in writing at the beginning of each school year, or a retainer taking into account that you are unlikely to fill the space with another child, so 75% minimum.

They signed a contract for year round care. Now they want to change the terms of it. You are quite within your rights to direct them to the terms of the contract and just say no, so offering some choices where they save a little but you are not left without enough money is very reasonable.
The way you present it to them will be key I would think, e.g. "Obviously I am running a business which needs to make enough profit to earn me a decent living, but I do understand your position, money is tight for everyone, so I've looked at all the figures and this is what I've come up with to try to help you".

Good luck

**Mouse** · 30-08-2012, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by hilaryk

**This is a great idea, but unfortunately she knows my set fees and day rates etc, so I don't think I will be able do this! I'm guessing the only option is a retainer fee? I will give that a shot and see what sort of response I get. Need to tread carefully I as I really don't want to loose the contract.

thank for the responses!!

***Mum also mentioned about me taking my holidays during the summer holidays - ie one or two weeks where no payment due as i'm on my holidays, I guess this is something to consider as I probably would want some leave then? Maybe charge a retainer for the 4 weeks left? Although would mean i'd only be able to take another 5 days during the rest of the year. oh eck - why do they have to complicate things!! lol

Hmm... it sounds as if mum is getting a bit pushy before things have even started. I do like to try to help parents, but not when they try dictacting how they want you to do things.

It's tricky when you don't want to lose the work, but at the same time you don't want to be seen as a pushover. Is the contract for a full time place? Is it a lot of money you'd be losing out on if they take 6 weeks off?

It's entirely up to you how much holiday time you take and when you take it. If you don't want to take 2 weeks in the summer hols, then don't. Certainly don't do it just to please one family. I only take 4 weeks holiday a year, which doesn't seem much at all. I do spread it out through the year & wouldn't want it all at the same time. I need my regular breaks!

**madmamma** · 30-08-2012, 01:45 PM

I also take 4 weeks holiday, so parents are only charged for 48 weeks per year.

I tell parents when I'm taking MY holidays - if they chose to take them at the same time, great, if they don't, that's their choice as I still expect payment if they're on holiday.

If you weren't planning on taking holidays during the busy school holidays then just point out to parents that it is your busiest time.

There's a big difference between trying to be accommodating and being bullied into something you aren't prepared for/to do.
Her 'plan' may work for her, but it may not work for the other parents (particularly the ones you haven't even got yet)

**The Juggler** · 30-08-2012, 02:43 PM

if she didn't now want ANY school holidays I'd charge a retainer of at least 50% as you weren't away they only need t-time.

IF however, she needs you in the holidays just not the summer break, I'd charge full. She can't pick and choose

**Daftbat** · 30-08-2012, 05:45 PM

I would charge a retainer if she wants cover for other school holidays and just wants to miss the summer one. If she just wants a term time only contract I would do that - I have a couple of customers who do that and others have in the past. I quite like being quieter in hols as it makes me more mobile with the car and income doesn't really drop as have the kids for more hours.

Keeley77 · 03-10-2012, 03:44 PM

Not sure if anyone will still look at this thread as I posted it a while ago.... however if anyone does take a look then advise appreciated!! lol

This is still about the same contract where they decided that they wanted to take the child out during the summer hols.

Well i eventually agreed that I would charge half fee for any child holidays taken during the summer holiday period all other child holidays to be paid at full rate. - this was accepted however they hadn't returned the paperwork to say that they agreed.

They are now saying they will be taking two weeks off at xmas and do not want pay for childcare. (obviously I dn't charge for xmas day, boxing day etc) The mum asked that I take my two weeks holiday then (As I don't charge during my holiday). I initially said oh ok, then quickly back tracked saying i'd need to look into it as i need holiday when my husband can take leave.

In the contract ive stated that I will take 3 weeks leave unpaid - that will leave me with one week for the rest of a 12 month contract!

Im really not sure how to handle this! I think the mum thinks that she employs me - I've even heard her say this to other people "Oh ive employed her as my childminder" which i find very irritating! - Which she thinks entitles her to be able to negotiate all the terms and start telling me when i take me leave!! grrrr.

I'm considering changing the contract yet again to just say that all child holidays are charged at 1/2 - But i'm certainly not going to say that they wont be charged at all?

Does anyone not charge for child holidays?? she is making me feel as though i'm doing something wrong and that I should be feeling guilty for expecting to be paid.

What does everyone else think about this? Am I getting worked up about nothing here?

Maybe I should just take two weeks leave at xmas and get her to agree that I will have a total of 4 weeks leave rather than three?

HELP ME PLEASE!!!!

**caz3007** · 03-10-2012, 03:58 PM

You take your holidays when you want them. I do close for one week at xmas and then have a week in the summer hols and a week in the May half term and the rest are odd days as need them.

I charge half for my and childs holiday, cos its worked better for me like that.

Dont let her dictate to you as it seems that you agree one thing with her and then she puts another into the mix.

Stick to your guns, she can go elsewhere if she doesnt like it

**Jods** · 03-10-2012, 03:59 PM

right so is she renegotiating her original contract?

do you offer term only contracts?

if the top answer is yes, then I would not budge - offer her your holiday dates, and its up to her if she can co-ordinate around that, if she cant then its not your problem.

If the bottom answer is no, then why take on someone who might request this kind of service (not being snooty), when I started I had a long hard think about if/what contracts/childcare I would offer up, if a prospective parent does not like it sorry but see you later x

As for 3 weeks, when your contracts are up for renewal change it to 4 as this is industry standard, and what you would get if employed. I offer an hourly rate which is pro-ratered over 48 weeks so am paid the same all year round x

I do offer term only contracts, I have a specific contract for them, ensuring that the dates are noted, and has things in for example - no childcare will be offered from such a date to this date, I prorater the payments again over the 38 week period, but do not account for my holidays, so parents pay less each month, but all year round. However that is what I offer and not up for negotiation x

good luck hun, I think you are going to need it, just out of curiosity, has she had CM before ? if so it would be interesting to find out whom - and see what she was being charged there x

Best bit of advice I ever got - " dont reduce your prices, or offer silly contracts in the desperation to fill your books" xxxxxxxx

**wendywu** · 03-10-2012, 04:12 PM

If you do decide to charge half for school holidays then its half for your holidays if you take them during the school holidays.

So they pay half for every holiday even if you are away during them

They cannot have it all ways.

**Goatgirl** · 03-10-2012, 06:34 PM

It sounds like you've given them an inch.... and they're going to be trying it on every time they fancy some holiday.

Difficult one: do you make a final offer of all holidays at 50% and kind of let them get their own way but hopefully no more whining..... no guarantee

Or, do you just say no. You can remind them you have already come to an agreement about holidays, which is losing you income from a eyfs space and no, you are not able to take your holidays for any of the parents' convenience.

depends how much you need the mindee to stay and how much more trying it on will occur with either of the options.... Only you can judge really

p.s. If you go for the 50% on all school holidays get signed agreements on the new terms before they can be charged at the lower rate

Meanwhile I'd give yourself a few days to think over the options and if they enquire in the meantime just say 'I'm considering all my options and will get back to you'. It might just make them realise they're being too pushy and that they might be risking losing you

Hope you can sort it and move on without any more stress; good luck

Keeley77 · 03-10-2012, 06:57 PM

Well I have emailed the Mum this afternoon with the following

~~~I'm a bit confused what you meant with regards to the Xmas holiday? I wont be taking a full two weeks off at xmas as that would only leave me with around 5 days until next October!! I will let you know the days I will be taking within the time agreed on the contract, which is two weeks notice of the holiday date. Obviously I will always let you know dates earlier where possible.

With regard to the contract adjustment, this relates to the issues you raised about the expense of the summer holiday period. If there is a separate issue relating to the contract then please let me know ASAP.~~~

Ive also sent her text to say that ive emailed and that I couldn't find any notes/emails or corres relating to the xmas holidays (she tried to tell me that we had definitely discussed it, which we definitely haven't!!)

I will wait and see what response I get from the family. This is my only EYFS child and the contract is for 4 days a week (I have two of my own children under 5) so I would be pretty disappointed if it all fell through, if it means I keep the client then I will drop to half holidays, I will also say that it will mean my holidays are 1/2 pay rather than no fee - as wendywu said below. - I will then make it clear that any further contractual issues will need to wait until the renewal date.

I do have a recollection of her saying that her old childminder used to take her holiday at the same time as her, to which I responded that i would have to work around my partners leave and i wouldn't be able to commit to taking leave when she does. good look getting someone to do that who has more than one mindee to look after? hmmm i'm feeling like she is definitely trying it on!!!

What do you all think? does this seem reasonable to you??

Thanks for your advise, I really do appreciate it!

Keeley77 · 03-10-2012, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Goatgirl

It sounds like you've given them an inch.... and they're going to be trying it on every time they fancy some holiday.

Difficult one: do you make a final offer of all holidays at 50% and kind of let them get their own way but hopefully no more whining..... no guarantee

Or, do you just say no. You can remind them you have already come to an agreement about holidays, which is losing you income from a eyfs space and no, you are not able to take your holidays for any of the parents' convenience.

depends how much you need the mindee to stay and how much more trying it on will occur with either of the options.... Only you can judge really

p.s. If you go for the 50% on all school holidays get signed agreements on the new terms before they can be charged at the lower rate

Meanwhile I'd give yourself a few days to think over the options and if they enquire in the meantime just say 'I'm considering all my options and will get back to you'. It might just make them realise they're being too pushy and that they might be risking losing you

Hope you can sort it and move on without any more stress; good luck

** also, does anyone limit/restrict the amount of 1/2 fee for child holidays? ie 3 weeks at 1/2 rate and any further child holiday full fee, per 12 month contract? x

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 03-10-2012, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by The Juggler

if she didn't now want ANY school holidays I'd charge a retainer of at least 50% as you weren't away they only need t-time.

IF however, she needs you in the holidays just not the summer break, I'd charge full. She can't pick and choose

I agree - all or nothing

**Porridge** · 03-10-2012, 09:36 PM

Hi, just thought I would share what I do as I know it's a minefield and I thought long and hard about what to charge. Some of my children are term time only, and some are all year round so I do work all year round but am generally much less busy in the holidays. Those who are year round get 'up to 4 weeks no charge' which is my holiday/time off. I tell them when but say it is usually 2 weeks in Summer and 2 weeks at Christmas. It could be any time but is usually in school holidays. The 'term time only's' pay half in the school holidays (and don't attend) but they also get 4 weeks free so they are only actually paying half for the 9 remaining weeks. I work out this amount over the year and add 1/11 of this amount to their monthly bill (no bill in August). I'm not saying it's perfect, but the parents see that I'm meeting them half way. The trick is to work out your pricing so that you earn enough over the year to make up for those months when your income is lower.
And I tell parents when I take my time off - when you have several families you will see that having one child less is not a holiday for you!!! If I am available and they don't want the service, they still pay. Hope you get sorted x