How much do you charge for meals?

[tiredandemotional]

Hi everyone. I am currently evaluating my costs and charges and realised that I am probably undercharging for meals. When I started out, over five years ago, I charged £1 for a baby meal and £1.50 for a toddler meal. This was lunch only as I didn't give evening meals, or have older children in my care. I am still charging these rates but feeding big strapping 9 year olds a cooked dinner! I am considering putting my costs up in line with our school meals; £2.10 for a cooked dinner (but keeping it at £1.50 for lunches, although I often include things like olives, berries, nice cheeses etc- which don't come cheap but then I want to feed my own children nice food!) Does this sound reasonable and what, if you don't mind me asking, do you charge? Finally, has anyone got some suitable wording to let people know about the increase (from September) that I can put in my next newsletter? I am typically British and hate asking for more money

[halor]

I charge £1.50 for lunch and £2 for tea, I don't do discounts for younger children. I used to charge £1 for brekkie but I now ask for children to have it before they arrive. I've charged that for the last 3 years.

[bunyip]

I'm always torn on this. Something inside says I'm meant to be caring for the child and I couldn't possibly care without including feeding them as part of the overall deal. Hence, I don't charge for meals. I fear that, if it were somehow seen as optional, mums might opt out ostensibly to save money , and leave me with a hungry child on my hands, perhaps sadly watching the others stuff their faces.

OTOH, I can see the point of charging and feel CMs who do charge should value themselves a bit more highly. I get frustrated at the way it's assumed comparisons must be with school meal rates (which is doubly dangerous now the infants get free ones.) Also, remember that companies with school catering contracts benefit from economies of scale so they can provide those meals at minimal costs. Since we're all registered food businesses, why not make the charge comparable with what mum might pay if she took the children to a cafe/restaurant/soft play/attraction and fed them there? CMs charge far less than such venues and provide far better meals.

[loocyloo]

When I was registering many years ago, the suggestion was to charge the same as whatever a happy meal cost!

I include all meals and snacks in my fees. That way everyone has the same healthy food.

[bunyip]

When I was registering many years ago, the suggestion was to charge the same as whatever a happy meal cost!

I include all meals and snacks in my fees. That way everyone has the same healthy food.

I'm definitely eating at yours if I get a toy with my lunch.

[tiredandemotional]

I'm always torn on this. Something inside says I'm meant to be caring for the child and I couldn't possibly care without including feeding them as part of the overall deal. Hence, I don't charge for meals. I fear that, if it were somehow seen as optional, mums might opt out ostensibly to save money , and leave me with a hungry child on my hands, perhaps sadly watching the others stuff their faces.

OTOH, I can see the point of charging and feel CMs who do charge should value themselves a bit more highly. I get frustrated at the way it's assumed comparisons must be with school meal rates (which is doubly dangerous now the infants get free ones.) Also, remember that companies with school catering contracts benefit from economies of scale so they can provide those meals at minimal costs. Since we're all registered food businesses, why not make the charge comparable with what mum might pay if she took the children to a cafe/restaurant/soft play/attraction and fed them there? CMs charge far less than such venues and provide far better meals.

I don't think it would work for me to have an inclusive charge as only 4 out of my 11 mindees have tea with me, most go home earlier and it would be chaos if I tried to do tea for everyone before the first ones went home. I don't have any worries about these children going hungry as I live in a high income area and know all my children personally through school etc (although I do understand you can't predict what goes on behind closed doors!) I would imagine most parents would undestand that they would struggle to feed their child for £1.50 or even the £2.10 I'm proposing - especially the healthy, vegeatrian and organic food I supply. I do include all snacks in my hourly rate though.

As for charging, I do understand what you mean about comparing it to school dinners (although again our scool dinners are good value for a nutritious, locally sourced and cooked on the premises meal). I just think that if I charged £4-£5 for a meal evereyone would opt out and then I would have to feed my children after everyone has gone home - chaos again!

[loocyloo]

I don't think it would work for me to have an inclusive charge as only 4 out of my 11 mindees have tea with me, most go home earlier and it would be chaos if I tried to do tea for everyone before the first ones went home. I don't have any worries about these children going hungry as I live in a high income area and know all my children personally through school etc (although I do understand you can't predict what goes on behind closed doors!) I would imagine most parents would undestand that they would struggle to feed their child for £1.50 or even the £2.10 I'm proposing - especially the healthy, vegeatrian and organic food I supply. I do include all snacks in my hourly rate though.

As for charging, I do understand what you mean about comparing it to school dinners (although again our scool dinners are good value for a nutritious, locally sourced and cooked on the premises meal). I just think that if I charged £4-£5 for a meal evereyone would opt out and then I would have to feed my children after everyone has gone home - chaos again!

We have tea about 4.30. Those that are here, and will be staying till 5ish have tea, those that go earlier have either a small portion or a snack and those that go before have nothing! Works for me.

[tiredandemotional]

We have tea about 4.30. Those that are here, and will be staying till 5ish have tea, those that go earlier have either a small portion or a snack and those that go before have nothing! Works for me.

Wow, I could never be organised enough for tea at 4.30, we're normally on a slow meander back from the park at that time! (plus my kids would be ravenous by bedtime and raiding the cupbaords again!). Do you charge everyone for tea whether they have it or not (if they go home earlier than your tea time?)

[FloraDora]

I have worked out the cost of all the menus ingredients and then averaged out the cost of each meal and snack. The cost to parents is inclusive of meals but I need this information for tax purposes.
I did this because a friend told me of her tax audit a couple of years ago where she was asked how she came up with the cost of her meals and they were not impressed with her random 'pluck a figure because others charge this amount' System. They wanted actual accurately worked out costs.
We all provide different foods so our costed meals and snacks are going to be different.
Just like in a restaurant the chef has to cost each menu item and keep within a budget, the county catering do this too, taking in to consideration the good deals they get on bulk ordering from regular suppliers.....so I felt that is what I should do. Like Bunyip mentioned, a meal costs me more to produce than the county catering because I can't get cost price at the supermarket and don't order in enough bulk to warrant going to a supplier.

[loocyloo]

Wow, I could never be organised enough for tea at 4.30, we're normally on a slow meander back from the park at that time! (plus my kids would be ravenous by bedtime and raiding the cupbaords again!). Do you charge everyone for tea whether they have it or not (if they go home earlier than your tea time?)

I've always prepped tea whilst everyone has a quiet time after lunch and apart from quickly steaming some veg/cooking pasta/rice, it's ready to eat. We get home from school by 4pm. I find LOs are hungry when we get home from school ... I was offering a small snack, but it was never enough, and then they didn't eat tea, so now (for the past 10 yrs lol!) we've had tea at 4.30 (or earlier some days!)

It used to suit my own children who were early to bed, then as they've got older they either need to eat early before going to activities or they have a snack and eat when they get home later with DH & I.

I charge an all inclusive fee so no one pays extra for a meal/snack etc.

[bunyip]

I don't think it would work for me to have an inclusive charge as only 4 out of my 11 mindees have tea with me, most go home earlier and it would be chaos if I tried to do tea for everyone before the first ones went home. I don't have any worries about these children going hungry as I live in a high income area and know all my children personally through school etc (although I do understand you can't predict what goes on behind closed doors!) I would imagine most parents would undestand that they would struggle to feed their child for £1.50 or even the £2.10 I'm proposing - especially the healthy, vegeatrian and organic food I supply. I do include all snacks in my hourly rate though.

As for charging, I do understand what you mean about comparing it to school dinners (although again our scool dinners are good value for a nutritious, locally sourced and cooked on the premises meal). I just think that if I charged £4-£5 for a meal evereyone would opt out and then I would have to feed my children after everyone has gone home - chaos again!

Understood and agreed. Our situations differ, so our philosophies and practices will too.

IIWY, the first thing I'd do is cost the meals. Use your shopping receipts, allow a little extra for all the basics you use from your cupboards but don't specifically buy for CMing (ie. butter, cooking oil, condiments, etc.) Add in a figure to allow for wastage: you have to buy the stuff even if it doesn't get eaten, whether that means some gets unused before it's use-by or the amount that's left and scraped off the plate into your composter. In any case, you need this figure to enter in your accounts as an expense. Then add in a time cost to allow for any preparation and clean-up that takes place outside your working hours. Also cost in the power used in cooking, washing up, cold storage, etc. - yes, these are legitimate business costs (so long as they're proportionate) even though you run your domestic fridge for your own household use.

That will give you a figure that is your 'cost' figure for producing the meal Now add a mark-up. You are a service-provider, and a food business, so you are entitled to expect a profit: it's what you live on. That's what you charge parents. Having done all the workings-out, you are now armed with the evidence on paper in case any parents moan about you daring to exploit their little lambs by charging for their upkeep.

I'd be tempted to take a few sample meal charges from other food businesses, too. I have CM friends (yes, really) who charge for food. Their clients moan about it, but wouldn't bat an eyelid at spending twice as much on a small crappy lunch with pop at a soft-play or theme park. (And, no, I wouldn't accept the argument that's an exception because it's a treat.)

[tiredandemotional]

Understood and agreed. Our situations differ, so our philosophies and practices will too.

IIWY, the first thing I'd do is cost the meals. Use your shopping receipts, allow a little extra for all the basics you use from your cupboards but don't specifically buy for CMing (ie. butter, cooking oil, condiments, etc.) Add in a figure to allow for wastage: you have to buy the stuff even if it doesn't get eaten, whether that means some gets unused before it's use-by or the amount that's left and scraped off the plate into your composter. In any case, you need this figure to enter in your accounts as an expense. Then add in a time cost to allow for any preparation and clean-up that takes place outside your working hours. Also cost in the power used in cooking, washing up, cold storage, etc. - yes, these are legitimate business costs (so long as they're proportionate) even though you run your domestic fridge for your own household use.

That will give you a figure that is your 'cost' figure for producing the meal Now add a mark-up. You are a service-provider, and a food business, so you are entitled to expect a profit: it's what you live on. That's what you charge parents. Having done all the workings-out, you are now armed with the evidence on paper in case any parents moan about you daring to exploit their little lambs by charging for their upkeep.

I'd be tempted to take a few sample meal charges from other food businesses, too. I have CM friends (yes, really) who charge for food. Their clients moan about it, but wouldn't bat an eyelid at spending twice as much on a small crappy lunch with pop at a soft-play or theme park. (And, no, I wouldn't accept the argument that's an exception because it's a treat.)

This is really useful info, thank you so much. It's made me realise that I am probably vastly undercosting meals (but it's quite hard to work out when I'm also feeding three of my own at the same time.)

I'm also most likely entering the wrong info on my accounts- I currently put down my costs for snacks and drinks (which are included in my charges) but not my meals as I charge seperately for that and put that as income on my accounts. So I need to look at that and rectify it as I'm in danger of being taxed more as I'm undervaluing my expenses whilst declaring my income on something that is costing me money - meals. Does this make sense?!

What I don't quite understand is how it works for CM's who have an all inclusive charge but don't neccessarily give children meals as they go home before tea time. Does this not upset the parents who may then expect their child to be fed tea even if they go home unreasonably early (or have parents like some of mine who turn up unannounced half to an hour early!) But an all inclusive charge would be better in some ways, as that way snacks are factored in and it discourages parents from sending in packed lunches for their 'fussy' children (who then become fussier as they only ever have the same food, day in and day out. But that's a whole other thread...)

[bunyip]

This is really useful info, thank you so much. It's made me realise that I am probably vastly undercosting meals (but it's quite hard to work out when I'm also feeding three of my own at the same time.)

I'm also most likely entering the wrong info on my accounts- I currently put down my costs for snacks and drinks (which are included in my charges) but not my meals as I charge seperately for that and put that as income on my accounts. So I need to look at that and rectify it as I'm in danger of being taxed more as I'm undervaluing my expenses whilst declaring my income on something that is costing me money - meals. Does this make sense?!

What I don't quite understand is how it works for CM's who have an all inclusive charge but don't neccessarily give children meals as they go home before tea time. Does this not upset the parents who may then expect their child to be fed tea even if they go home unreasonably early (or have parents like some of mine who turn up unannounced half to an hour early!) But an all inclusive charge would be better in some ways, as that way snacks are factored in and it discourages parents from sending in packed lunches for their 'fussy' children (who then become fussier as they only ever have the same food, day in and day out. But that's a whole other thread...)

Yes, it does sound like you are under-costing your meals for precisely the reasons you've stated.

If you're feeding 3 of your own, then deduct them as a proportion of the total number of children. So, if you feed 6 children of whom 3 are yours, work out the total cost, then halve it. If you feed 9, of whom three are yours, then deduct 1/3. (Or you could just give your sons/daughters an invoice with their pocket money. P'raps not. )

You are definitely undervaluing your expenses. Don't worry: you won't be the first CM to think that food is not an expense if you charge for meals, I've come across that before. Again, the way to think of it is to take yourself seriously as a food business and think what any other food business would do. Frintance, if you were running Tired&Emotional Kebabs Ltd. you'd most certainly be logging as expenses all those bags of frozen chips, bottles of chilli sauce, and dead sheep, would you not?

Yes, again, my inclusive charge does mean there is no reason for mums to cause me untold headaches over packed meals. My all-inclusive charge really is all-inclusive, so I don't have any holiday charges/retainers; add-ons for toddler group attendance; fees for outing; etc.

I find parents like it because it is clear and simple. I've always done it that way because I constantly hear mums at toddler group, etc. complaining about all the "extras" that make their CM's bills more than they expected when they signed the contract.

It does have a down-side, as I've said on numerous occasions. Parents looking for a CM tend to be a bit hard-of-thinking and will often compare all the alternatives purely on basic hourly rate. Then when they go for the cheapest per hour, they begrudge all the "extras". I'm always telling mums and dads they need to compare like with like and consider the whole cost over the year, including meals, holidays, trips, etc.

[samb]

If you make your fee inclusive of meals it is important to tell parents roughly the time the meal will be and ask if they are collecting early to let you know. I personally say no pick ups between 5-5:30 as its dinner time. I never have a problem with it. Parents are happy to wait til after 5:30.