Ratios and 5 yo clarification
Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    aly Guest

    Angry Ratios and 5 yo clarification

    Well I am still waiting for my inspections it will be 3 months exactly in 2 weeks

    anyway as I am worrying about kids moving up and kids leaving for mat leave i was speakign to my friend and she rang the merthyr office {our new which has relocated from pontypool} to ask for clarification on the ratios and whether they are keeping the 4 as 5 yo as there has been some change etc, and no they are keeping it that they HAVE to be 5 to be classed as 5 even if they are full time!!....My daughter has just turned 4 {aug} and is now doing the staggered intake til thursday for reception where she will be full time....my shiftworker is 4 btu will be 5 in oct {end of} i dont have him back until 12th but he will be straight into full time from monday....he is only before and after school apart from hols, I have 1 full timer and 1 3 full days...but i am losing out now as mum is only paying b&a school rates but is obvisouly still classed as under 5 and using space...he finishes in jan when mum is on mat leave but he may be back oct or jan and with sibling...who I may/maynot be able to take now due to ratios.

    I'm not best pleased now, my friend did ask this inspector she spoke to about other people being allowed elsewhere not under caerphilly but she said it's to do with other inspectors......it should be across the board or not at all.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    612
    Registered Childminder since
    Feb o7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I spoke to Ofsted about this only 10 mins ago [obviously alot of minders thinking same thing at this time of year]
    Children have to be doing 10 full sessions at school [most schools start reception with staggered days as you know] for numbers purposes to be classed in next age group.
    You should ideally have clause on your cert, but you can still 'use' the clause even if its not on your cert.
    For numbers purposes it has nothing to do with when they turn five but they MUST be in school 5 full days.
    Page 51 of EYFS apparently. I had read it guv'ner honest

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    612
    Registered Childminder since
    Feb o7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Sorry, didn't read your post properly. Does that mean that Ofsted rules don't apply in Wales? Or the EYFS. If that's the case, that's not really fair!

  4. #4
    aly Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Louise 144 View Post
    Sorry, didn't read your post properly. Does that mean that Ofsted rules don't apply in Wales? Or the EYFS. If that's the case, that's not really fair!
    no we dont do the eyfs here, we are under cssiw so the ofsted rule doesnt apply either...it was until our standards were changed in april and they've changed that too!..the thing is not all the cms around here know anyway.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    612
    Registered Childminder since
    Feb o7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    OMG I had no idea.
    That's really pants. I don't see how that is fair or logical. If there are different rules in different areas of Wales, that just doesn't seem right.
    So there must be loads of childminders losing income for the sake of a few weeks? I really had no idea things were different in Wales, I feel really thick now.
    It isn't fair because you are obviously losing business aren't you? And most people get their childcare sorted in Sept. By October enquiries will be fewer.

  6. #6
    aly Guest

    Default

    well i have lost £110 per month{doesnt seem a lot but it is if i can get a full timer instead} from sept-dec as he will turn 5 in oct btu my daughter can;t move up either

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    37,500
    Registered Childminder since
    1994
    Latest Inspection Grade
    Outstanding
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    21

    Default

    Aly - last time this was discussed Manjay reported NCMA were working with CSSIW to resolve this one.

    Have you chased it up recently?

    Sorry to hear it is affecting you xx

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    56
    Registered Childminder since
    Aug 11
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hi Guys
    I'm newly registered and I chased this up with my inspector based in north wales she said if they are in school full time 5 days a week 9 - 3pm they can be classed as over 5. If not they must be classed as under 5, it seems that people are getting different advice, my inspector said if there was a query by anybody even another inspector for me to give her name that she said it was ok. It seems somone needs to get this sorted and fast as the new standards are out since April

  9. #9
    aly Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sarah707 View Post
    Aly - last time this was discussed Manjay reported NCMA were working with CSSIW to resolve this one.

    Have you chased it up recently?

    Sorry to hear it is affecting you xx
    yehamy friend phone for me today, she mentioned about ncma resolving it but the inspector said that they will not be changing their minds under any circumstances.

  10. #10
    aly Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatima View Post
    Hi Guys
    I'm newly registered and I chased this up with my inspector based in north wales she said if they are in school full time 5 days a week 9 - 3pm they can be classed as over 5. If not they must be classed as under 5, it seems that people are getting different advice, my inspector said if there was a query by anybody even another inspector for me to give her name that she said it was ok. It seems somone needs to get this sorted and fast as the new standards are out since April
    exactly, it's nto right i think polly or someone else {sorry cant remember} was granted the 4 classed as 5...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    95
    Registered Childminder since
    sep2001
    Latest Inspection Grade
    CSSIW
    Non childminder member
    Childminder
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hi Im more of a lurker than poster but had to reply to this.

    I to brought this up with then Pontypool inspectors(before the move) and was told their hands were tied and we had to follow the 'new' minimum standards. Its not the cssiw who changed the rules but whoever write the standards. There are going to be so many childminders affected by this

    Would have been nice to had warning just before the new standards came in instead of it just happening overnight as all of a sudden childminders had rising 5's who were actually 4!!!

    The ncma are supposed to be campaigning the powers that be but will have to wait and see.

    When I was first registered 10 yrs ago there were no rising 5's and we have now gone full circle with the rules !!!

    Hope they do have a change of mind

  12. #12
    aly Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tialil View Post
    Hi Im more of a lurker than poster but had to reply to this.

    I to brought this up with then Pontypool inspectors(before the move) and was told their hands were tied and we had to follow the 'new' minimum standards. Its not the cssiw who changed the rules but whoever write the standards. There are going to be so many childminders affected by this

    Would have been nice to had warning just before the new standards came in instead of it just happening overnight as all of a sudden childminders had rising 5's who were actually 4!!!

    The ncma are supposed to be campaigning the powers that be but will have to wait and see.
    yeah this is same office

    Spoken to a few cms and they know nothing and are carrying on regardless until they have been told different

    When I was first registered 10 yrs ago there were no rising 5's and we have now gone full circle with the rules !!!

    Hope they do have a change of mind[/QUOTE]

  13. #13
    aly Guest

    Default

    Stupid phone wOuldnt let me delete the last bit grrrr

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    5,107
    Registered Childminder since
    Nov 07
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This is still with the powers that be but I agree it is very unfair. Luckily we have NCMA campaigning for us but government departments will not be rushed! There are a list of queries with the new NMS and they are being scrutinised by DCELLS (who wrote the document).

    I am fortunate as I have a sensible inspector (in North Wales)who has confirmed in an email to me that she will take no action against me for continuing to count my 4 year olds in full time school as 5 year olds.

    As many of you are probably aware I have recently been elected as a Board Member of NCMA so believe me when I say both myself and NCMA are doing our utmost to get this sorted.

    For anyone who is a member of NCMA please please send your concerns in an email to the Cardiff office so they are aware of how this is affecting members.

  15. #15
    aly Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manjay View Post
    This is still with the powers that be but I agree it is very unfair. Luckily we have NCMA campaigning for us but government departments will not be rushed! There are a list of queries with the new NMS and they are being scrutinised by DCELLS (who wrote the document).

    I am fortunate as I have a sensible inspector (in North Wales)who has confirmed in an email to me that she will take no action against me for continuing to count my 4 year olds in full time school as 5 year olds.

    As many of you are probably aware I have recently been elected as a Board Member of NCMA so believe me when I say both myself and NCMA are doing our utmost to get this sorted.

    For anyone who is a member of NCMA please please send your concerns in an email to the Cardiff office so they are aware of how this is affecting members.
    thats great then if it is still being dealt with, the impression my frined gave was that no way in ANY certain circumstances would it change ever......I guess I just need to sit still a bit longer then and hope it comes to our way of thinking.
    just wish my inspector would hurry now

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    S.Wales
    Posts
    3,130
    Registered Childminder since
    Sept 06
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aly View Post
    exactly, it's nto right i think polly or someone else {sorry cant remember} was granted the 4 classed as 5...
    Hi

    Just to clarify what my inspector said (from pontypool office) to carry on as we are for now - BUT not to take on any more rising 5's. In other words, like Manjay said they will not take any action against us for existing children.

    Luckily I do not have any this age at the moment - so sorry for those of you affected, it is a nightmare but I am sure ncma are doing all they can to push this issue forward

  17. #17
    aly Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Polly2 View Post
    Hi

    Just to clarify what my inspector said (from pontypool office) to carry on as we are for now - BUT not to take on any more rising 5's. In other words, like Manjay said they will not take any action against us for existing children.

    Luckily I do not have any this age at the moment - so sorry for those of you affected, it is a nightmare but I am sure ncma are doing all they can to push this issue forward
    mine was pontypool too......argh!! lol

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Quick Links and Advertisements

Important Information Links
Some Useful Quick Links
Advertisements

 

You can also find us on:
Ratios and 5 yo clarification Ratios and 5 yo clarification Ratios and 5 yo clarification

We use cookies to make this site as useful as possible. They are small text files placed in your browser to track usage of our site but they don’t tell us who you are.
By continuing to use this site you are consenting to cookies being placed on your computer. Find out more here: Cookies in Use

Childminding Help and the Childminding Forum are part of Childcare.co.uk