Ratios and 5 yo clarification

aly · 02-09-2011, 01:04 PM

Well I am still waiting for my inspections it will be 3 months exactly in 2 weeks

anyway as I am worrying about kids moving up and kids leaving for mat leave i was speakign to my friend and she rang the merthyr office {our new which has relocated from pontypool} to ask for clarification on the ratios and whether they are keeping the 4 as 5 yo as there has been some change etc, and no they are keeping it that they HAVE to be 5 to be classed as 5 even if they are full time!!....My daughter has just turned 4 {aug} and is now doing the staggered intake til thursday for reception where she will be full time....my shiftworker is 4 btu will be 5 in oct {end of} i dont have him back until 12th but he will be straight into full time from monday....he is only before and after school apart from hols, I have 1 full timer and 1 3 full days...but i am losing out now as mum is only paying b&a school rates but is obvisouly still classed as under 5 and using space...he finishes in jan when mum is on mat leave but he may be back oct or jan

and with sibling...who I may/maynot be able to take now due to ratios.

I'm not best pleased now, my friend did ask this inspector she spoke to about other people being allowed elsewhere not under caerphilly but she said it's to do with other inspectors......it should be across the board or not at all.

**Bananabrain** · 02-09-2011, 01:23 PM

I spoke to Ofsted about this only 10 mins ago [obviously alot of minders thinking same thing at this time of year]
Children have to be doing 10 full sessions at school [most schools start reception with staggered days as you know] for numbers purposes to be classed in next age group.
You should ideally have clause on your cert, but you can still 'use' the clause even if its not on your cert.
For numbers purposes it has nothing to do with when they turn five but they MUST be in school 5 full days.
Page 51 of EYFS apparently. I had read it guv'ner honest

**Bananabrain** · 02-09-2011, 01:26 PM

Sorry, didn't read your post properly. Does that mean that Ofsted rules don't apply in Wales? Or the EYFS. If that's the case, that's not really fair!

aly · 02-09-2011, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Louise 144

Sorry, didn't read your post properly. Does that mean that Ofsted rules don't apply in Wales? Or the EYFS. If that's the case, that's not really fair!

no we dont do the eyfs here, we are under cssiw so the ofsted rule doesnt apply either...it was until our standards were changed in april and they've changed that too!..the thing is not all the cms around here know anyway.

**Bananabrain** · 02-09-2011, 01:38 PM

OMG I had no idea.
That's really pants. I don't see how that is fair or logical. If there are different rules in different areas of Wales, that just doesn't seem right.
So there must be loads of childminders losing income for the sake of a few weeks? I really had no idea things were different in Wales, I feel really thick now.
It isn't fair because you are obviously losing business aren't you? And most people get their childcare sorted in Sept. By October enquiries will be fewer.

aly · 02-09-2011, 05:18 PM

well i have lost £110 per month{doesnt seem a lot but it is if i can get a full timer instead} from sept-dec as he will turn 5 in oct btu my daughter can;t move up either

**sarah707** · 02-09-2011, 06:39 PM

Aly - last time this was discussed Manjay reported NCMA were working with CSSIW to resolve this one.

Have you chased it up recently?

Sorry to hear it is affecting you xx

**fatima** · 02-09-2011, 07:40 PM

Hi Guys
I'm newly registered and I chased this up with my inspector based in north wales she said if they are in school full time 5 days a week 9 - 3pm they can be classed as over 5. If not they must be classed as under 5, it seems that people are getting different advice, my inspector said if there was a query by anybody even another inspector for me to give her name that she said it was ok. It seems somone needs to get this sorted and fast as the new standards are out since April

aly · 02-09-2011, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by sarah707

Aly - last time this was discussed Manjay reported NCMA were working with CSSIW to resolve this one.

Have you chased it up recently?

Sorry to hear it is affecting you xx

yehamy friend phone for me today, she mentioned about ncma resolving it but the inspector said that they will not be changing their minds under any circumstances.

aly · 02-09-2011, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by fatima

Hi Guys
I'm newly registered and I chased this up with my inspector based in north wales she said if they are in school full time 5 days a week 9 - 3pm they can be classed as over 5. If not they must be classed as under 5, it seems that people are getting different advice, my inspector said if there was a query by anybody even another inspector for me to give her name that she said it was ok. It seems somone needs to get this sorted and fast as the new standards are out since April

exactly, it's nto right i think polly or someone else {sorry cant remember} was granted the 4 classed as 5...

**tialil** · 02-09-2011, 09:54 PM

Hi Im more of a lurker than poster but had to reply to this.

I to brought this up with then Pontypool inspectors(before the move) and was told their hands were tied and we had to follow the 'new' minimum standards. Its not the cssiw who changed the rules but whoever write the standards. There are going to be so many childminders affected by this

Would have been nice to had warning just before the new standards came in instead of it just happening overnight as all of a sudden childminders had rising 5's who were actually 4!!!

The ncma are supposed to be campaigning the powers that be but will have to wait and see.

When I was first registered 10 yrs ago there were no rising 5's and we have now gone full circle with the rules !!!

Hope they do have a change of mind

aly · 02-09-2011, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by tialil

Hi Im more of a lurker than poster but had to reply to this.

I to brought this up with then Pontypool inspectors(before the move) and was told their hands were tied and we had to follow the 'new' minimum standards. Its not the cssiw who changed the rules but whoever write the standards. There are going to be so many childminders affected by this

Would have been nice to had warning just before the new standards came in instead of it just happening overnight as all of a sudden childminders had rising 5's who were actually 4!!!

The ncma are supposed to be campaigning the powers that be but will have to wait and see.

yeah this is same office

Spoken to a few cms and they know nothing and are carrying on regardless until they have been told different

When I was first registered 10 yrs ago there were no rising 5's and we have now gone full circle with the rules !!!

Hope they do have a change of mind[/QUOTE]

aly · 02-09-2011, 11:28 PM

Stupid phone wOuldnt let me delete the last bit grrrr

**manjay** · 05-09-2011, 12:03 PM

This is still with the powers that be but I agree it is very unfair. Luckily we have NCMA campaigning for us but government departments will not be rushed! There are a list of queries with the new NMS and they are being scrutinised by DCELLS (who wrote the document).

I am fortunate as I have a sensible inspector (in North Wales)who has confirmed in an email to me that she will take no action against me for continuing to count my 4 year olds in full time school as 5 year olds.

As many of you are probably aware I have recently been elected as a Board Member of NCMA so believe me when I say both myself and NCMA are doing our utmost to get this sorted.

For anyone who is a member of NCMA please please send your concerns in an email to the Cardiff office so they are aware of how this is affecting members.

aly · 05-09-2011, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by manjay

This is still with the powers that be but I agree it is very unfair. Luckily we have NCMA campaigning for us but government departments will not be rushed! There are a list of queries with the new NMS and they are being scrutinised by DCELLS (who wrote the document).

I am fortunate as I have a sensible inspector (in North Wales)who has confirmed in an email to me that she will take no action against me for continuing to count my 4 year olds in full time school as 5 year olds.

As many of you are probably aware I have recently been elected as a Board Member of NCMA so believe me when I say both myself and NCMA are doing our utmost to get this sorted.

For anyone who is a member of NCMA please please send your concerns in an email to the Cardiff office so they are aware of how this is affecting members.

thats great then if it is still being dealt with, the impression my frined gave was that no way in ANY certain circumstances would it change ever......I guess I just need to sit still a bit longer then and hope it comes to our way of thinking.
just wish my inspector would hurry now

**Polly2** · 05-09-2011, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by aly

exactly, it's nto right i think polly or someone else {sorry cant remember} was granted the 4 classed as 5...

Hi

Just to clarify what my inspector said (from pontypool office) to carry on as we are for now - BUT not to take on any more rising 5's. In other words, like Manjay said they will not take any action against us for existing children.

Luckily I do not have any this age at the moment - so sorry for those of you affected, it is a nightmare but I am sure ncma are doing all they can to push this issue forward

aly · 05-09-2011, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Polly2

Hi

Just to clarify what my inspector said (from pontypool office) to carry on as we are for now - BUT not to take on any more rising 5's. In other words, like Manjay said they will not take any action against us for existing children.

Luckily I do not have any this age at the moment - so sorry for those of you affected, it is a nightmare but I am sure ncma are doing all they can to push this issue forward

mine was pontypool too.

.....argh!! lol