CMs Agencies with no CMs on their books
Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  31
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33
  1. #21
    Simona Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    I do think there is a need for some of the services that agencies are supposed to be supplying - training, support when registering, a local point of contact...

    ...oh, hang on a minute...wasn't that what LAs used to do before all their funding and responsibility was taken away from them?

    Here's a radical idea...what if LAs had been given more funding and more responsibility rather than stripping it all and handing power over to money-making agencies who have very little knowledge about childminders?

    I know not all LAs were as good as ours, but what if efforts had been put into improving them rather than ditching them all and replacing them with secretive agencies who offer nothing at all?
    Some LAs still offer good support to CMs, some charge for that support, while others abandoned CMs a long time ago.
    My issue is with those LAs who applied to be agencies...first they leave CMs to be on their own then they see the opportunity to become agencies and offering what was their duty in the first place: support, training and the registration process

    not many LAS applied....mine did under their Social Enterprise mantle of Achieving for Children....so I am keeping my eyes and ears open on their practices.

    The problem with Truss and her agency idea was that it hid the main aim: deregistration of CMs which meant Ofsted could see ££££ in savings hence the reason Ofsted backed agencies.

    All that spin behind CMs need support and help with their business was a poor selling point.
    It also had the aim of recruiting more CMs in the sector...not sure it has actually done that except frighten many to leave the profession.

    I also think LAs could have organised themselves better when their funding dropped and relied more on a 'peer to peer' support which CMs really are good at! A wasted opportunity I think!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    37,485
    Registered Childminder since
    1994
    Latest Inspection Grade
    Outstanding
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    21

    Default

    The Childminding Forum welcomes and supports all childminders - those who wish to register with and work within an agency AND childminders who want to stay independent of agencies.

    It makes me a little sad to see an agency coming onto the Childminding Forum in good faith and their motives being questioned in this way.

    We are here for all childminders that's what Pauline intended when she set up the Forum - if members don't want to engage with the agency and answer questions everyone has a scroll button or thumb!

    Thank you

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    By the sea
    Posts
    8,826
    Latest Inspection Grade
    Outstanding
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sarah707 View Post
    The Childminding Forum welcomes and supports all childminders - those who wish to register with and work within an agency AND childminders who want to stay independent of agencies.

    It makes me a little sad to see an agency coming onto the Childminding Forum in good faith and their motives being questioned in this way.

    We are here for all childminders that's what Pauline intended when she set up the Forum - if members don't want to engage with the agency and answer questions everyone has a scroll button or thumb!

    Thank you

    I feel sad that you would suggest we are not supporting all childminders. There has never been any question over us supporting independent and agency childminders. I think we would all support any childminder and would actually show an interest in any childminders who join an agency as it would give us an insight into how they work.

    There is a very big difference between supporting agency childminders and supporting an agency itself. I'd have thought that any agency who joins a forum of childminders who have actively worked to prevent them being established would know they are going to face opposition from childminders determined to see them fail.

    I will take your advice and engage no more with the agency, but hope we won't be again chastised like naughty school children if we don't play nicely

  4. Likes Ripeberry liked this post
  5. #24
    Simona Guest

    Default

    If any agency CMs ever came on this forum to seek support I strongly believe it would be offered by all of us.
    I doubt though that such cm would do so as they have every thing in 'one stop shop' .....to quote the rethoric.

    There is a difference between supporting agency CMs to engaging with agencies themselves...they are a threat to CMs and the whole childminding community as a whole...some of us will never accept them!

    While I read that we must now accept agencies as part of the sector landscape I would never agree to that and neither would those who are still fighting against this idiotic idea
    Agency 12 came in this forum asking pertinent questions and was....in my view...far from open often dangling a carrot in front of our eyes

    Let's put a stop to the secrecy surrounding CMs agencies then we can have an open debate
    I also resent the comments made by Agency 12 in the NWorld article that there are too many myths surrounding agencies...I wonder what these myths are?

    It beats me why this forum would want to question our motives against those of an agency...if not here I will raise my concerns elsewhere about agencies where I will not feel I am being told off.

    I am sure the forum was set up to support us all but that was well before the arrival of agencies...it is not the same anymore and we must be free to raise our concerns and argue our points.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    589
    Registered Childminder since
    Jan 84
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This is now becoming scary, has Agency 12 joined to try and undermine the forum, (sorry can't use my question mark, cat pulled key off), is that the real reason for joining, to try and split the forum and so she can say see there is no longer much support for childminders and so agencies are really needed, just my thoughts and perhaps reading behind the lines too much and it is a Monday morning and had a bad weekend so perhaps brain engaged in wrong gear.
    Teacake2

  7. Likes Ripeberry, hectors house liked this post
  8. #26
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Can't imagine the agencies will ever have (or want) that amount of clout - in reality they will only inspect as far as is reasonable (financially) to send someone away from 'base camp' for us it will be Essex and East London, (we won't be looking for cm's any further away as we couldn't visit them twice a year)

    Ofsted have an obligation for the whole of the UK we don't - it's in our interest to cooperate with the independents and share the market - cm's can switch any time they want - and switch between agencies as well

    (I know 'market share' sounds a bit soulless but there we are - with the 30hrs swiftly approaching both agency and independents will be in the same boat with the schools and nurseries soon enough) there are 'interesting times' ahead - and there's little point in fighting between us - the agencies won't be 'taking' children - the cm's will be caring for the children and those cm's will either be independent or agency depending on what works for that individual cm, both options are different - the agencies cannot (and wouldn't want to) put independents out of business - those same cm's may want to rejoin an agency later - we'll be doing the same courses, doing the same job - (except all ours will be wearing the same uniform ... JOKE ...)

  9. #27
    Simona Guest

    Default

    Teacake.....scary but not I think something to worry about .
    I feel that forum members accepted Agency 12 in good faith but with caution...in fact we did engage very positively and answered her questions on 'what do cms' need from an agency'.
    I doubt Agency 12 would succeed in splitting CMs on their opinion on agencies....to various degrees we object to them but, the main problem which causes immense frustration, is the 'secrecy' from agencies themselves, DfE and Ofsted in this whole business.
    I will keep my reasons quiet on why this may be so.


    Let's see if we can start a new chapter on this and be honest and respectful of anyone's feelings.

    1. First of all let's clarify on Agency 12 statement 'no point in fighting between us'
    No fighting Agency 12 ...just clear and honest engagement...you did get a few 'measured replies' from cms but that was to be expected considering the level of objection against agencies is close to 100%....challenges were to be expected.

    I, in particular, challenged your knowledge during your registration process and posted many links for you to check prior to your registration visit...just as I would do for any other cm asking for support here....some of your questions were astonishing....especially those regarding Safeguarding when you had stated you were a registered nursery setting.
    Now that we know you are being trained to be an 'inspector' those questions on Safeguarding are a bit difficult to understand.


    2. Agency 12...despite my very strong anti-feelings regarding agencies I have engaged with you and answered many questions....in fact I was even reprimanded in a DM for being too eager to engage with you but I was clear on my reasons
    you needed to be pointed in the right direction unless you were posting questions to trick us...but I don't believe that to be the reason....I actually felt your knowledge of cms needed improving.

    3. So let's be fair...we now know who you are as you have appeared in the NWorld story ...although you did not tell us from the start.
    You are an agency and we are Independent CMs...the dialogue can now begin with the gloves off.
    You can't be surprised at our reaction following that article?

    4. In answer to your comment below...I am unsure what you are referring to when you mention 'the amount of clout agencies' have....maybe you could be a bit clearer on that....but I am quite clear having read the guidance

    5. Let's clarify this point before any cms starts to panic...I am sure someone will have spotted this elephant in the room?
    'OFSTED have an obligation all over the UK'
    can someone correct me if I am wrong


    Ofsted DOES NOT regulates childcare in Scotland nor Wales...nor even Northern Ireland.
    Ofsted regulates England ONLY....I am sure others want to raise their voice here but maybe do not want to engage again?

    6. The 'market share' sounds soulless....again it is a bit unclear to me on what you mean
    This is how I translate it: you mean we will have to compete with agencies in the childcare market?
    then yes but we are not soulless as we can argue this with our Ofsted registration, inspection and regulation and ...with ICMs recent performance in inspections' outcome we can argue how we raised our standards without the need for any agency to take over

    7. Can Cms switch at any time even from agency to agency?...maybe..... but I would caution any cm trying to do so until the agencies are well established and Ofsted + DfE have tested the system

    CMs can leave an agency and go back to Ofsted...yes...but I leave you to read the Ofsted guidance on this and inform your members.
    Please do not reassure any new members of your agency that 'switching is easy'...any new member needs facts on that

    8. Agencies will not want to put cms 'out of business'...lets see what happens when all the agencies are up and running....then we will judge but...you are our competition with a huge advantage: the DfE endorses agencies...enough said.

    9. Cms have proved that, despite lack of support from LAs, we can rally round and look for support where it is given freely and in good faith.
    Those who, in future, will train ICMs will also offer to train agencies.
    Those who welcome us as members will also welcome agencies

    So we will meet again Agency 12 in one of those meetings and we will continue to argue our corner.
    Last edited by Simona; 25-08-2015 at 08:18 AM.

  10. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    at my computer, of course
    Posts
    4,987
    Registered Childminder since
    Nov 11
    Latest Inspection Grade
    Outstanding
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I appreciate Sarah's reminder about the values/ethos of the Forum in welcoming and supporting all CM's, yet I cannot help but feel very uncomfortable about the whole issue. I fear that what is happening may well presage some form of split. Without getting too philosophical, there is a huge question mark over how, exactly, we individually and collectively maintain our core values when those values are challenged by the very existence of agencies and CMs working under them.

    Collectively we argued against the introduction of agencies because we believed, and still believe that agencies represent a clear and present threat our deepest core values and will have numerous deleterious effects on childcare in the UK. How then do we face up to accommodating that which we opposed on the basis of things which cut deep into the heart of what we believe about childcare?

    I remain unconvinced that Agency 12 has indeed stepped onto the Forum "in good faith". He/she/it seems to have more questions than answers - a thought which probably sums up the whole issue of agencies.

    I have a bad feeling that we may well see a de facto split between agency CMs and independent CMs. If not nationally, then at least perhaps on a local level. The effect of agencies will, we argued, create the potential for localised monopolies by agencies who can out-punch independent CMs for advertising and resources, never mind the very uneven playing field on which inspection will be played out (to my mind, the notion that an agency can both passionately promote and dispassionately inspect its own customers, viz, its CMs is the very epitome the most cynical conflict of interests.)

    At a Forum level, what will happen? How do we support agency CMs when we believe agencies (and by logical extension, those CMs who pay them) are damaging childcare? How many of us will feel truly comfortable giving out free information and advice to agency CMs whose very existence damages and threatens their local independent CMs. Is there not a choice to be made as to whom we support?

    At the most basic level, when an agency CM asks for our support or information or tips on writing a policy (or whatever) is it not at least reasonable for members to suggest they pose the question to their agency instead? After all, what are they paying the agency for? Were the agencies not set up precisely to provide information and support? Are Forum members then expected to do it for free whilst the agency is gleefully counting out its money?

    What I am suggesting is that agencies represent such a quantum shift in childcare provision, that we are talking about something which goes way beyond the mere moving of goalposts. Surely it has become reasonable to question whether we are playing on the same pitch, with the same ball, the same rules, or even the same game.
    Last edited by bunyip; 25-08-2015 at 04:47 PM.

  11. Likes moggy, Kiddleywinks liked this post
  12. #29
    Simona Guest

    Default

    I think it would be very useful to stop and think about this 'open ended' support that has been mentioned a lot when it comes to equally 'supporting agencies and agencies cms'.

    I have heard this often ...at meetings, conferences, from some representing associations, from consultants and trainers, from charities funded by the DfE, from LAs and EY teams , including mine etc etc....we welcome and support everyone ...regardless....we make no difference.

    So why do we have a separate section in this forum for 'Agency Chat'? ...how many agency cms have actually sought support or declared themselves to be joining an agency?

    There is a lot to understand behind the statement 'we will support any cm regardless of whether they are Ofsted registered or agency registered'.

    I beg to differ on that simply because no one has ever clarified and clearly explained what that means and gone back on the very bedrock that formed our opposition to the agency idea.

    We seem to have a short memory of how worried we really were about the 2 tier of cms, the safeguarding, the quality of care provided by agencies, the inequality it will create, the opposition by MPS, Lords and many more

    Let's not forget that for many who want to equally support cms there is the consideration of money to be made from agencies and those registered with them.....who will offer them insurance, training, all required paperwork?

    Agency 12... as a future Inspector, a Tribal one I guess... will be best placed to spot this difference once she starts in her other role of inspecting quality, support and care for the children.

    As no one has come out to confirm this....I will confirm my statement to be correct that Ofsted have a remit over England ONLY...not...as Agency 12 said 'an obligation for the whole of the UK'.

  13. Likes Kiddleywinks liked this post
  14. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Neverland
    Posts
    2,133
    Registered Childminder since
    Dec 11
    Latest Inspection Grade
    Good ;-)
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default

    I have read many of the threads and replies with regard to Agency 12, and I must say I am bothered hugely about the amount of misinformed and uninformed information being given on a public forum by such an establishment, but what worries me more is what unsuspecting newbies are being told to 'win' them over to said agency that to be honest is a load of old codswollop!

    We, and I mean the collective 'we' as in established minders, aren't able to 'balance' the 'independence-v-agency' to newbies PRIOR to them embarking on their journey, because 'we' don't get to speak to them unlike the LA, (my first point of call in how to start up) before that decision is made.


    Simona, of course you are correct, as a well informed forum member you are more than aware of current guidelines and legislation, as are the majority of members here who probably didn't feel the need to confirm what EVERYBODY knows...

  15. Likes loocyloo, Ripeberry liked this post
  16. #31
    Simona Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddleywinks View Post
    I have read many of the threads and replies with regard to Agency 12, and I must say I am bothered hugely about the amount of misinformed and uninformed information being given on a public forum by such an establishment, but what worries me more is what unsuspecting newbies are being told to 'win' them over to said agency that to be honest is a load of old codswollop!

    We, and I mean the collective 'we' as in established minders, aren't able to 'balance' the 'independence-v-agency' to newbies PRIOR to them embarking on their journey, because 'we' don't get to speak to them unlike the LA, (my first point of call in how to start up) before that decision is made.


    Simona, of course you are correct, as a well informed forum member you are more than aware of current guidelines and legislation, as are the majority of members here who probably didn't feel the need to confirm what EVERYBODY knows...
    The aim of clarifying the Ofsted remit was for the only purpose of dispelling a myth which could have confused new cms but not the ones you rightly address as well informed.

    I can relate very well to your statement about balancing the 'Ofsted registered cm versus agency registered cm'

    You are correct in saying any cm who wishes to register will go to the LA as a first step.
    My LA has an agency recently registered...we were told that when cms approach them for registration they will be given the 'choice' of choosing Ofsted or agency

    Can I be reassured that the choice given is free from bias when the people recruiting new cms are at the same time running the agency?...and at the same time promising equal support regardless who we are registered with?
    conflict of interest indeed!

  17. Likes Kiddleywinks, loocyloo liked this post
  18. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    589
    Registered Childminder since
    Jan 84
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I am so glad that after 31 years I will be finishing next summer, the way we are being treated at the moment by certain people in power is worse than when I started, we didn't have much respect then but there appears to be none at all now in some areas. As regard to Agency 12 I personally feel very let down that this person is allowed to be a member of the forum, all they want is our knowledge of childminding and some very good information has been given to them where as nothing has come from them in return, I thought that the forum was for childminders and some parents not agencies and nurseries. Still as I say just my opinion and thankfully I will not have to put up with being treated as a second class citizen for much longer.
    Teacake2

  19. #33
    Simona Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teacake2 View Post
    I am so glad that after 31 years I will be finishing next summer, the way we are being treated at the moment by certain people in power is worse than when I started, we didn't have much respect then but there appears to be none at all now in some areas. As regard to Agency 12 I personally feel very let down that this person is allowed to be a member of the forum, all they want is our knowledge of childminding and some very good information has been given to them where as nothing has come from them in return, I thought that the forum was for childminders and some parents not agencies and nurseries. Still as I say just my opinion and thankfully I will not have to put up with being treated as a second class citizen for much longer.
    Teacake2
    Teacake...I am really sorry you feel that way and I hope you won't leave childminding with a nasty taste in your mouth....cms have been treated unfairly and taken advantage of, I also think they have risen to the task and hope they will continue to do so.

    I have admitted to sharing a lot of information during discussions with the agency by posting links ....for various reasons...I put my hands up without shame.

    I wanted to address a lot of the misinformation I personally felt was being given out via the questions
    To address my own concerns as I have had plenty of opportunities to questions agencies, Ofsted, my LA and 4 Children
    To challenge the feeling we were made to appear a bit dumb on the agency responsibilities/remit etc etc when in fact most of us were all very well informed.

    To engage ...had we avoided answering Agency 12 we would have been guilty of giving the cold shoulder
    Having engaged we are now guilty of being disrespectful....Catch 22...one can never win.
    I wonder how Agency 12 feels about the way she engaged with us and the way she left some CMs feeling....is she happy that forum members have been reprimanded like little children for standing up to her ?
    will she openly allow us to join her website ?


    I understand the forum is mainly for CMs but no one can know who joins under a username ...we were warned right at the start that it had approved this agency under the mantle of supporting everyone and cms went on engaging.
    While we have been reprimanded for engaging and showing little respect...there has been no reprimand on the way Agency 12 interacted with us.

    We can't draw a line so easily under agencies and embrace them ....for as long as they exist they will be challenged and scrutinised by the vast majority....those who embrace them surely have ulterior motives.

    Good luck in whatever you do in future !

 

 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Quick Links and Advertisements

Important Information Links
Some Useful Quick Links
Advertisements

 

You can also find us on:
CMs Agencies with no CMs on their books CMs Agencies with no CMs on their books CMs Agencies with no CMs on their books

We use cookies to make this site as useful as possible. They are small text files placed in your browser to track usage of our site but they don’t tell us who you are.
By continuing to use this site you are consenting to cookies being placed on your computer. Find out more here: Cookies in Use

Childminding Help and the Childminding Forum are part of Childcare.co.uk