Latest agency status, from EY Report 2015, Wilshaw this week
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  1. #41
    Simona Guest

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    Each agency will have its own model mam2three...@home childcare has one thing in common with our : they are both Social Enterprises but how they deliver their agency is up to them

    The other common matter is they also offer help to 'Ofsted Registered CM'...same as here but how, why and at what cost?
    how will this support not be a conflict of interest?
    Who are newly registering cms referred to when they first approach their LA for briefings?

    These meetings are usually attended by Sue Robb, head of 4 children who has received a grant for 2015/2016 to push agencies
    The other person who attends is Sarah Read...her assistant...we have met both here....all very open and clear.
    The push to register quickly to attend is just a con as these meetings are not well attended until they get to our LAs..

    I could offer dozens of questions as I did ask several at our meetings
    One burning one is why does Ofsted not attend these meetings?
    why has there been no inspection of agencies so far?
    why the perceived blanket of silence on agencies?
    since agencies were supposed to recruit more Cms and raise standards is this still pertinent when cms have raised their quality?

    Good luck and thank you for keeping us informed.
    Last edited by Simona; 12-01-2016 at 11:18 AM.

  2. #42
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    As you know I'm attending this briefing also as I want to be well informed. I have been studying my level 3 with them. They already have an agency type model for nannies and I think that's been running a while. They also offer level 2 training and the opportunity for those receiving training to be CM apprentices (I have been approached a couple of times to take on an apprentice). A local CM currently has 2 apprentices working with her. I think the trainees they already have on their books will be prime targets to join their model. I've also had an email asking if I wanted to be a mentor for new CMs. I'll be totally honest, I think they could make this work and it is a worry. I have a decent network of CMs and some are already interested in what support they can offer independents - like Simona to me it seems a conflict of interests. But we have a lack of LA support and they have already got behind this agency, the flyer for the briefing has been emailed out by them today. Once I've attended I'll fill you all in. Just to be very clear I am fiercely independent and only attending to find out what they up to!

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    Thank you. mama2three please do keep us informed.
    Questions, will each cm be responsible for their own individual policies, risk assessments, sef type document, learning journeys etc or will they start with a folder stuffed with 'these are our blanket policies, our learning journeys etc follow them and nothing else, everybody on our books is equal'.

    Simona has raised my other question. Fees. This will be interesting as I'm sure one of there big selling points to parents will be offering the full 30 hours. I wonder how they will persuade the new cm's to take this on? How will they survive financially? Will they also tell them what to charge for the remaining hours the lo is with them?

    Plus Simona, with regards to them 'get your ticket quickly or else' or something to that effect, surely is this not to create a mild panic in the cm's out there dithering or undecided about what to do. 'I better get my ticket quickly because it seems a lot of others are?' Type senerio.

    I think they will be prepared for a lot of cm's sitting in the audience, like mama2three, gaining information only. So she may come away with a lot of unanswered questions. 'Sign here, pay xxx and we'll tell you more'. We'll have to wait and see.

  4. #44
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by moh View Post
    Thank you. mama2three please do keep us informed.
    Questions, will each cm be responsible for their own individual policies, risk assessments, sef type document, learning journeys etc or will they start with a folder stuffed with 'these are our blanket policies, our learning journeys etc follow them and nothing else, everybody on our books is equal'.

    Simona has raised my other question. Fees. This will be interesting as I'm sure one of there big selling points to parents will be offering the full 30 hours. I wonder how they will persuade the new cm's to take this on? How will they survive financially? Will they also tell them what to charge for the remaining hours the lo is with them?

    Plus Simona, with regards to them 'get your ticket quickly or else' or something to that effect, surely is this not to create a mild panic in the cm's out there dithering or undecided about what to do. 'I better get my ticket quickly because it seems a lot of others are?' Type senerio.

    I think they will be prepared for a lot of cm's sitting in the audience, like mama2three, gaining information only. So she may come away with a lot of unanswered questions. 'Sign here, pay xxx and we'll tell you more'. We'll have to wait and see.
    I think you have misunderstood what I meant and it was not to cause panic having attended quite a few meetings about agencies and even questioned Ofsted itself for the last 3 years.
    Out of 650 cms in our joint LAs around 50 turned up for the Sue Robb lecture.
    Some will be sitting there but others will ask pertinent questions too....as we did and they were minuted.

    I am certain there is an underlying message there....plus most meetings now are via Evenbright....I have a few in my diary to attend in the next few months... even OBC ones are done that way now.

    We are all thankful to mamato3 for keeping us informed ...I have to say I have done the same and looks like it has been ignored when we have an agency on our doorstep and anyone can see it has cms on their books and galloping ahead

    What an agency will do in terms of paperwork is clearly stated in the Ofsted publication...as Sue Robb told us 'an agency is a cms Network with another name' except cms are deregulated...main point! plus all their cms will be Quality Assured....another discrepancy because the rest can't do that easily.

    You mention fees...for a start the Ofsted registration fee will go up and I am sure it will do so for agencies too...so their package will be updated...what they pay now is not going to stay the same...would you think so too?

    Cms are going for information ...yes and much more such as finding out the pros and cons and looking at their own business model....fighting their corner in other words.

    Also agencies will be looking for mentors as Natlou says...cms with experience who will support agency cms in their obligatory 16 hours of CPPD...mentors may also not be paid and asking to volunteer to extend their experience...check that out Natlou! and keep that 'conflict of interest' question going...there is certainly that in our agency where the same co-ordinators support ALL cms?...that campaign is ongoing here

    Agency cms still have to follow the EYFS, what they charge is only a matter between agency and its members
    Agency cms will also do the 30 hours...easy to see why and none will have the option of offering funding...it will be a must
    All Las where there is an agency in the making will be involved for obvious reasons...so easy for them!

    So much to find out and again thanks to those keeping us informed

  5. #45
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    Had a couple of interesting conversations regarding this meeting today. A very interesting one was from a fairly new CM (registered in Sep) she actually did her training via @homechildcare and was told the agency was being set up but decided to go it alone. She did say that a few CMs on her course were waiting for the agency to be up and running as that was the route they wanted to go down. The draw does seem to be the support they offer. There's a lot of chatter and interest in this, all of the local CMs are very aware of this agency and the meeting and I'm attending with 5 other CMs who just want to be in the know

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  7. #46
    Simona Guest

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    Natlou....Look forward to hearing the result of the @HomeChildcare agency meeting...very much so!

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    @home childcare have asked us to email in our questions in advance - so that they can be grouped together to be answered - complete ***** , they want to avoid being put on the spot!

    One question I have will probably not be answered directly by the agency , its more for OBC or similar. It relates to complaints.
    As an ofsted registered / regulated childminder if Ofsted receive a complaint they will investigate and I may or may not keep my registration. What will ofsted do if they receive a complaint about an agency registered cm? nothing? pass the information to the agency? What do the agency have to do in this case? And if the complaint is a safeguarding issue , such that an agency takes the cm off their books what is to stop them simply registering with another agency or even Ofsted. Surely there is a major child protection issue here?

    Another question I have..if as a cm I no longer wish to be part of the agency , how long will it take me to register with Ofsted? The same time as a newly registering cm? If so I could be out of work for 6 months or more! If I was dissatisfied , although on paper I wouldn't be tied to the agency the reality is that moving away is a major hurdle.

  9. #48
    Simona Guest

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    Ofsted are setting up 'Scrutiny committees' to deal with complaints at the 3 stages....they include providers from the sector.

    The committees at the moment only have nurseries as representatives.

    At OBC I did ask Ofsted if these committees 'include cms'....that question was answered with 'we don't know' and a discussion followed...hopefully that will be in the feedback from the London OBC

    I pointed out that nurseries will have support when raising a complaint as will those cms who belong to an association....but those Cms not members of one will be on their own.
    There was a CEO of one of these associations present at OBC

    Scrutiny Committees are being set up in each Ofsted area and many in OBC are part of them...but no cms as yet.

    So we await for this to be looked at by Ofsted itself.

    Yes ...a cm in an agency can register with Ofsted and that is in the Framework which came out a while back...that will probably be reflected in their contract and notice required to be given if they want to leave.

    I also understand form the guidance that cms can register with more than one agency...not just one...please check this out.
    The Safeguarding issue is one the agency will deal with in their support for cms...the agency itself will be deemed 'Effective or Ineffective' in their inspection in supporting Safeguarding....please check the guidance for this too.

    Lots to be clarified but look at the guidance we have and I am sure things will change again as was the grading we expected of agencies...that is not applicable as they will not be graded.

    You are correct they want questions in advance...when we met we asked questions on the spot and got few answers in return...in fact cms here were much more informed on the whole issue

    Good luck!

  10. #49
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    If I understand correctly simona the scrutiny committees relate to complaints by providers against ofsted . I was referring to complaints received about a provider , especially where the complaint is of a safeguarding nature.

  11. #50
    Simona Guest

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    My apologies

    I don't have the guidance in front of me but it should be in there and should deal with a complaint against an agency cm...does it not say all complaints are referred back to the agency itself? I am going from memory but a good question to ask.

    I mentioned the Scrutiny committees by mistake as I misunderstood...hopefully cms now know and are aware they are in the making and will know what they are for.

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    Ofsted are setting up 'Scrutiny committees' to deal with complaints at the 3 stages....they include providers from the sector.

    The committees at the moment only have nurseries as representatives.

    At OBC I did ask Ofsted if these committees 'include cms'....that question was answered with 'we don't know' and a discussion followed...hopefully that will be in the feedback from the London OBC
    I have been invited to take part in our NW scrutiny committee.

    Unfortunately it was on a day when I couldn't attend due to being needed in ratios here - but if I can do it in the future I will.

    The nursery owner who did it is the lead on our OBC group and her feedback was very positive

  13. #52
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah707 View Post
    I have been invited to take part in our NW scrutiny committee.

    Unfortunately it was on a day when I couldn't attend due to being needed in ratios here - but if I can do it in the future I will.

    The nursery owner who did it is the lead on our OBC group and her feedback was very positive
    Thanks Sarah...there is a flurry of activities within the OBC teams and I know they will be meeting in the near future.
    Jenny and many other nursery leads in the OBC are part of this....yes the feedback we have received is very positive

    That is something that is bound to happen with cms....many cannot attend due to commitments but good for Ofsted to realise that cms must be included in these scrutiny committees....let's hope that will soon change and we have equal representation in every area

    I will continue to flag it up so we have equal representation

  14. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mama2three View Post
    If I understand correctly simona the scrutiny committees relate to complaints by providers against ofsted . I was referring to complaints received about a provider , especially where the complaint is of a safeguarding nature.

    It is a Scrutiny Panel. As I understood from the BOC meeting the Panel meetings take place in every area and a complaint will be heard by a Panel in a different area to where the complaint is made if that makes sense.?

    The question was asked if any cm were on these panels and the answer was they didn't know but would look into it but it didn't really matter anyway!

    The reason given for this was that once a Complaint (Panels are for Complaints made against providers as well as Ofsted and I assume in time Agencies because they will be registered with Ofsted. ) reaches a Level 3 it has already been investigated by Ofsted, the Panels job is not to investigate but to make sure that the decision and how it was reached was far and factually correct in the way the conclusion was reached. It wasn't felt that it mattered which area of Early Years a practitioner on the panel therefore came from because they were vetting a process not deciding it.

    Does that make sense?
    Last edited by rickysmiths; 22-01-2016 at 02:01 PM.

  15. #54
    Simona Guest

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    Yes RS...that was the question I asked at OBC as you were there and Ofsted were not sure....so we await a reply

    Ofsted I believe will look into this...does it matter?...I think so and it will matter to many cms.

    The Panels are being set up at this very moment...apologies I called them Committees...and nothing is final so let's keep this on the agenda.
    Sarah was invited to be on her area Panel...that is very good....that means there is room for cms to be in every area....I see no reason why that should not be so.

  16. #55
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    Thanks RS and Simona.

    My main concern here is that as an independent cm we could ( and should!) be unable to continue minding in the event of an upheld serious complaint.
    An agency cm may just be removed or ''sacked'' ( wrong word , I know theyre not employed!) by the agency - and simply go on to join another , putting children at risk.

  17. #56
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by mama2three View Post
    Thanks RS and Simona.

    My main concern here is that as an independent cm we could ( and should!) be unable to continue minding in the event of an upheld serious complaint.
    An agency cm may just be removed or ''sacked'' ( wrong word , I know theyre not employed!) by the agency - and simply go on to join another , putting children at risk.
    I think your question is answered on page 27 of the Agency handbook...do check I have got it right

    Take this guidance with you for your meeting and good luck.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...d-ofsted-staff

  18. #57
    Simona Guest

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    Mama2three...I have just remembered that ...at the second meeting with 4 Children ...which was very formal with the LA present as well taking minutes too...we also had to send questions in advance.

    many cms did ....funny enough my question was not included on their list but we were allowed to ask any questions that we felt had not been covered at the end.

    These meetings ...or anything similar all have the same system...even the Twitter Q&A needed tweets sent in advance...so they can prepare themselves and the answers..

    Hope this helps!

 

 
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