AGENCIES update (Nov 2013)
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  1. #1
    Simona Guest

    Default AGENCIES update (Nov 2013)

    I am posting this here as it may be lost in the C&F Bill thread where I posted it originally

    The magazine @Home Childcarer (Nov 2013 edition) has 2 interviews with 2 of the trialling agencies' managers: @Home Childcare's Yvette Oliver-Mighten and Riverside Cares's Gaby Morris

    Please take a few minutes to read the articles

    Home Childcarer - November / December 2013 digital edition

    Look at Riverside Cares website, they are based in London

    Riverside Cares

    and @Home Childcare who now have 6 CMs volunteering for the trials

    Childminder Quality Development Programme | At Home Childcare

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    Thank you Simona. A few points I have picked up on -

    1. Yvette from @homechildcare says that childminders are suspicious of agencies because we don't have all the facts... and that one of the things we think is they are going to take a cut of our income...

    With respect Yvette, exactly how are agencies going to fund themselves if they don't take our income???

    Are agencies going to allow childminders to charge more £ per child so that the agency fee doesn't affect income? ... and exactly how is that going to push down the cost of childcare for parents?

    2. Yvette also says that we think of agencies as someone 'wanting to take over our business'.

    She then goes on to talk about agency cms receiving regular monitoring visits ... if that's not taking over then what is?

    We all know the damage some LAs have done to childminders with their over monitoring and over insistence on extra documentation and useless, over complicated pieces of paper... where is her reassurance that isn't going to happen?

    3. The editor talks about engaging with agencies to make them work for us. I am very sorry Tommy but, with respect, the more childminders who engage with agencies - the more successful agencies will say they are!!

    I will be writing to the magazine to share this concern with him.

    4. Riverside will also be a nanny agency (and agency for others) - I fear for childminders. There are only so many children to go round - who will be prioritised if a parent contacts them to look for care for their child?

    Actually Riverside fill 2 pages without saying very much at all...

    5. Riverside also don't seem to understand Ofsted expectations if they think that the 1 day paediatric first aid course on their website is sufficient for childminders.

    6. Denise Burke has a lot of good things to say - but she has very much disappointed me when she says that the alternative to agencies is 'not brilliant'.

    A lot of people (including the Childminding Forum) are working so very, very hard to set up support networks so that every childminder who wants to stay independent can do so with confidence and good quality information - and many childminders are setting up local groups to support each other...

    I think she needs to get her facts right and talk to those of us who are doing our very best to make independence a positive future prospect.

    7. UKCMA say they met with Liz Truss to discuss agencies - then fill the rest of the article with a letter from Ms Truss telling us how wonderful agencies are going to be for us!

    I am sure they meant it to be reassuring ... re-iterating we won't need to join them if we don't want to - but I'm not sure it is - especially at a time when most of the childminders I speak to want agencies to go away and leave us alone.

    One good point UKCMA have raised - they are going to see if they can find out how much Ofsted are going to charge us in the future ... I am not sure the others have talked about this one yet. If they can find out it will at least stop the rumour mongerers who are coming up with scary amounts just to frighten people into joining agencies...

    So a mixed response ... and a lot of concerns... and clearly a lot more to be done to reassure childminders that they can be successful and independent...

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    Thank you both Sarah and Simona

    It is so reassuring to have two such articulate confident assertive people looking our for us.
    I would feel truly isolated without this forum.
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

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  5. #4
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah707 View Post
    Thank you Simona. A few points I have picked up on -

    1. Yvette from @homechildcare says that childminders are suspicious of agencies because we don't have all the facts... and that one of the things we think is they are going to take a cut of our income...

    With respect Yvette, exactly how are agencies going to fund themselves if they don't take our income???

    Are agencies going to allow childminders to charge more £ per child so that the agency fee doesn't affect income? ... and exactly how is that going to push down the cost of childcare for parents?

    2. Yvette also says that we think of agencies as someone 'wanting to take over our business'.

    She then goes on to talk about agency cms receiving regular monitoring visits ... if that's not taking over then what is?

    We all know the damage some LAs have done to childminders with their over monitoring and over insistence on extra documentation and useless, over complicated pieces of paper... where is her reassurance that isn't going to happen?

    3. The editor talks about engaging with agencies to make them work for us. I am very sorry Tommy but, with respect, the more childminders who engage with agencies - the more successful agencies will say they are!!

    I will be writing to the magazine to share this concern with him.

    4. Riverside will also be a nanny agency (and agency for others) - I fear for childminders. There are only so many children to go round - who will be prioritised if a parent contacts them to look for care for their child?

    Actually Riverside fill 2 pages without saying very much at all...

    5. Riverside also don't seem to understand Ofsted expectations if they think that the 1 day paediatric first aid course on their website is sufficient for childminders.

    6. Denise Burke has a lot of good things to say - but she has very much disappointed me when she says that the alternative to agencies is 'not brilliant'.

    A lot of people (including the Childminding Forum) are working so very, very hard to set up support networks so that every childminder who wants to stay independent can do so with confidence and good quality information - and many childminders are setting up local groups to support each other...

    I think she needs to get her facts right and talk to those of us who are doing our very best to make independence a positive future prospect.

    7. UKCMA say they met with Liz Truss to discuss agencies - then fill the rest of the article with a letter from Ms Truss telling us how wonderful agencies are going to be for us!

    I am sure they meant it to be reassuring ... re-iterating we won't need to join them if we don't want to - but I'm not sure it is - especially at a time when most of the childminders I speak to want agencies to go away and leave us alone.

    One good point UKCMA have raised - they are going to see if they can find out how much Ofsted are going to charge us in the future ... I am not sure the others have talked about this one yet. If they can find out it will at least stop the rumour mongerers who are coming up with scary amounts just to frighten people into joining agencies...

    So a mixed response ... and a lot of concerns... and clearly a lot more to be done to reassure childminders that they can be successful and independent...
    I agree Sarah.....3 pages of information that told us nothing at all...all waffle especially about SAM!
    In addition my consistent message for the last year that 'agencies' are taking priority over current Cms makes me think I am right and would go further is saying this a bit discriminatory....we must raise this issue now!
    Maybe @Home Childcarer should interview those CMs who want to stay independent and let us tell them how we are preparing for that and feel confident we can deal with it very well.

    all these people want to reassure CMs but have nothing on offer for those who 'may' want to join...join what I ask when they have no package and to produce one they need our invaluable input?...so I beg CMs to stay off joining any agency, not even because it is the only way to get more info because there is nothing to be had that we are not already sharing.

    We know agencies are coming but without any customers I want to know how they will survive...so we boycott them

    I was surprised that @Home Childcare has 6 CMs ready to volunteer...is that all ?

    They are unable to tell cms what they need to charge because they have to wait for Ofsted to set their fee for an agency inspection...what about dealing, as we have said for a long time, with the pending issue of the registration fee for 55,000 of us?

    Good to hear you are writing in response to the articles...I have approached Denise Burke too and I am taking this matter to my representing association next week.

    I feel it is up to the 4 of them now to issue some concrete statements and a warning to CMs to keep away from agencies....some cMs have survived without any help from LAs for a long time, I am sure we can continue to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadavi View Post
    Thank you both Sarah and Simona

    It is so reassuring to have two such articulate confident assertive people looking our for us.
    I would feel truly isolated without this forum.
    Yes I quite agree. Being pre reg i'm still learning so much.
    I read was has been put on this fab forum but it feels a bit out of my depth sometimes so grateful for the likes of Simona and Sarah above for keeping their eye on the ball for us all

    I have to add this forum helps me feel very supported Thanks very much

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  9. #6
    Simona Guest

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    I had a very long discussion this morning with the Editor of @Home Childcarer, Tommy Leighton and I know that Sarah has written to him as well....Sarah and I then had a long chat about it all.

    With Tommy I discussed the 2 articles by the 2 trialling agencies, the fact they have not really told anything new as they have to wait for Ofsted to set their inspection fee before they can even think of how much to charge CMs

    we spoke about the various 'models' and I am glad even he does not have a clue what they will be!

    I also brought to his attention that agencies are getting a lot of 'oxygen of publicity' trying to sell Cms a package that does not exist yet while independent CMs, the huge majority, are trailing behind awaiting a few answers in order to continue being independent and sustainable.

    The message for him from me is that independent cms should have a say too...so if you are willing to have your say give him a call, I am sure he will appreciate that and put things from your point of view...do so by 20 December when the next edition goes off to the printers
    In the meantime stay off agencies and do not get put under any pressure that by not joining them you will be losing out...we can build support for CMs and look for training that suits us as long as we stay updated on changes and regulation.

    Agencies do not become legal until Sept 2014 and we have a lot more important things to sort out before then.

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    Thank you for sharing - I have e-mailed the information to everyone in our town's "Independent Childminding Group" - one of the newly formed ones that Sarah707 mentioned under point 6 of her summary and concerns about the articles.

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    I have written the following letter to Tommy at Home Childcarer - I have yet to receive a reply...

    I will also send it to Denise Burke when I stop for breath

    I urge you all - if you have concerns about the articles in the magazine, please write and share your views! They will not know how we are feeling if we don't tell them


    Hi Tommy, I hope you are well.
    I would like to comment on your Editorial in the Nov/Dec 2013 edition of ‘Home Childcarer’ magazine where you suggest childminders engage with agencies.
    One of the major concerns of those childminders who want to remain independent of agencies is that, when childminders engage with agencies, the agencies can say they are successful because they have lots of childminders already talking to them. As the majority of childminders to whom I regularly speak neither want nor need agencies, why would we want to contribute to their success?
    We have feedback from childminders who have attended meetings to engage with their local agencies. They have come away from the meetings frightened that they will not get any local support or training unless they join the agency - that Ofsted will charge them huge amounts of money to stay registered with them (thank you to UKCMA for trying to tackle this one) - that if they do not pay money to the agency they will not get any local work because all parents will be directed to agency childminders. They have, in many cases, signed up out of fear for the future of their businesses - not because they want to give their hard earned money to an agency.

    Even Denise Burke, who has a lot of good things to say in her article, has disappointed me when she says that the alternative to agencies is 'not brilliant'. A lot of people (including me in my own small way) are working very, very hard to set up support networks so that every childminder who wants to stay independent of agencies can do so with confidence and with access to good quality advice and information - and many childminders are setting up local groups to support, mentor and help each other, source local training etc.
    I would like to invite Denise to chat to those of us who are doing our very best to make independence a positive future prospect.

    Further concerns surround the way agencies are being discussed in Government and at local level. It appears to many childminders that we are being sidelined in favour of agencies. Ofsted are grading all early years providers including childminders more harshly than previously and childminders no longer have Local Authority support due to the dismantling of LAs and Family Information Services in preparation for agencies. How will childminders continue to be successfully independent if we are not provided with the support we need? As agencies take priority, it is starting to feel like those of us who want to remain independent are being discriminated against to force us to join - even your editorial advises childminders to engage!

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Best regards, Sarah Neville
    Knutsford Childminding - proud to be an Ofsted registered independent childminder!

  14. #9
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah707 View Post
    I have written the following letter to Tommy at Home Childcarer - I have yet to receive a reply...

    I will also send it to Denise Burke when I stop for breath

    I urge you all - if you have concerns about the articles in the magazine, please write and share your views! They will not know how we are feeling if we don't tell them


    Hi Tommy, I hope you are well.
    I would like to comment on your Editorial in the Nov/Dec 2013 edition of ‘Home Childcarer’ magazine where you suggest childminders engage with agencies.
    One of the major concerns of those childminders who want to remain independent of agencies is that, when childminders engage with agencies, the agencies can say they are successful because they have lots of childminders already talking to them. As the majority of childminders to whom I regularly speak neither want nor need agencies, why would we want to contribute to their success?
    We have feedback from childminders who have attended meetings to engage with their local agencies. They have come away from the meetings frightened that they will not get any local support or training unless they join the agency - that Ofsted will charge them huge amounts of money to stay registered with them (thank you to UKCMA for trying to tackle this one) - that if they do not pay money to the agency they will not get any local work because all parents will be directed to agency childminders. They have, in many cases, signed up out of fear for the future of their businesses - not because they want to give their hard earned money to an agency.

    Even Denise Burke, who has a lot of good things to say in her article, has disappointed me when she says that the alternative to agencies is 'not brilliant'. A lot of people (including me in my own small way) are working very, very hard to set up support networks so that every childminder who wants to stay independent of agencies can do so with confidence and with access to good quality advice and information - and many childminders are setting up local groups to support, mentor and help each other, source local training etc.
    I would like to invite Denise to chat to those of us who are doing our very best to make independence a positive future prospect.

    Further concerns surround the way agencies are being discussed in Government and at local level. It appears to many childminders that we are being sidelined in favour of agencies. Ofsted are grading all early years providers including childminders more harshly than previously and childminders no longer have Local Authority support due to the dismantling of LAs and Family Information Services in preparation for agencies. How will childminders continue to be successfully independent if we are not provided with the support we need? As agencies take priority, it is starting to feel like those of us who want to remain independent are being discriminated against to force us to join - even your editorial advises childminders to engage!

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Best regards, Sarah Neville
    Knutsford Childminding - proud to be an Ofsted registered independent childminder!
    Thank you for sharing your letter Sarah...I understand that it is now posted on FB as is this entire thread.

    I am sure it will receive much attention as you say and would be useful if those like me who are not on FB could be kept updated...maybe those Cms who are forum members and are on FB could open the info sharing further.


    There were many issues I discussed with Tommy and also Kathy Hammond who is a journalist for @Home Childcarer in my calls to them both yesterday...too many to relate here as the call was more than an hour long.

    Both asked me if my opinion could be reflected in the magazine...for the moment I have declined because I believe it is the turn of other cms to speak up and be heard....if anything comes up I know 20 December is the deadline and I can add my bit.

    The campaign against agencies is a campaign for 'all CMs' not just the few...so take this opportunity to have your say
    I would also remind everyone that, unless I am wrong, the magazine is owned by Morton Michel? please correct me if I am .... who may have a vested interest in who gets interviewed and whose opinions are put forward?
    you can work that out for yourself

    So please lets truly share this issue now and work together because my feeling at the moment is that the campaign against agencies has to 'refocus' on ICMs while we have time.

    we also need to involve those in the sector who are not CMs...we need their support....so I will post this on the ICMs LinkedIn group because those who have signed up to it are not just CMs.....if the 3 groups can work together the word will go further.

    One other thing I would like to ask CMs is please do not give agencies your 'expert opinion' when you are invited to meetings and asked what a 'potential' agency cm would need or what would you like the agency to offer you...let the agencies work that out for themselves.

    I am sure that any trialling LA would not ask that question because they know what support Cms need but not sure about the others which makes me ask why did they volunteer to become an agency in the first place?? something else you can work out for yourself!

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  16. #10
    Simona Guest

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    Just a reminder of who the 20 trialling agencies are...10 are LAs the other 10 various businesses, schools or whatever:

    •Family Info Link
    •St Bede’s Academy
    •Liverpool Council
    •Salford Council/Rochdale Council/Wigan Council
    •@Home Childcare
    •Entrust Ed
    •NoelQuinnLtd
    •Telford Council
    •Buttercups Nursery
    •Riverside Childcare (Now called Riverside Cares)
    •Merton Council
    •Broadclyst Community Primary School
    •Trio Childcare
    •Bournemouth Council
    •South Gloucestershire Council
    •First Year Childcare
    •Calderdale Council
    •Rutland Council
    •Warwickshire Council
    •Hampshire Council

    Are there any Cms in this forum who live in an area where their LA is trialling an agency? have you volunteered to be in one?

    If so...have you been invited to any meetings, asked to sign any conditions, asked to volunteer or been asked to 'input' your views on what you would want from an agency or any other information at all?
    Would you share what the LA has told you about their trials?

    Or do you live in an area where the other 10 trials are?
    Has anyone heard from Trio, First Year Childcare, Noel Quinn, Entrust Ed, Buttercups Nurseries or @Home Childcare etc etc?

    Buttercups Nurseries emailed many CMs in my area and surrounding ones and invited us to attend a meeting in Chiswick to give them our opinions on what we would expect from an agency...they said in their email that our input would be fedback to the DfE
    A colleague attended and told me there were 5 CMs present...I did not attend but sent my response in an email saying if the DfE wanted our opinion they could write directly to CMs.
    I also responded that I would not give them my experienced opinion of what I would 'expect' from an agency...it should be the agency that should put a package on a plate to tempt me to join...if ever I would want to do that!


    It would be great if we could start gathering and sharing info to build up a picture of what is 'actually' going on....at the moment we talk about agencies and worry out of fear or frustration...so let's have some facts as tit bits are coming out but nothing has ever been reported here

  17. #11
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    I have been asked to a briefing meeting by our early years team where we will be told about the changes. If they ask our opinions I'm sure my group will respond.
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

  18. #12
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadavi View Post
    I have been asked to a briefing meeting by our early years team where we will be told about the changes. If they ask our opinions I'm sure my group will respond.
    Thank you for sharing a little bit
    If you are referring to your LA are you able to tell us if they are trialling an agency ?

    When you say your group will respond do you mean provide their opinion for or against?

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    My LA aren't trialing an agency and are very much against them (mainly because they believe the last few of them will lose their jobs if agencies take over). They actually seem to be battling against agencies as much as possible. At every meeting I have been to, or course I have been on, they have mention the campaigns against agencies and urged cms to look at them.
    Since the funding cuts started a few years ago our training opportunities have all but disappeared. Other than first aid & safeguarding there have been very few courses for childminders to go on. Now though they have brought out a whole range of new courses specifically for cms. They are put on at night and cover some interesting & relevant topics. I think they are out to prove that we don't need agencies when we have LA support.

    Of course my main worry is what will happen if their funding is cut even more & their only way to survive is to become an agency themselves? I certainly wouldn't mind paying for some of the courses, or paying an annual fee to be able to access support, but then isn't that what an agency is?

  20. #14
    Simona Guest

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    In the @Home Childcarer article Truss responds to UKCMA and reassured them that Ofsted will not charge CMs too much for remaining independent.

    That is very curious because in her reply to the very same question I put to her Sue Gregory directed me to ask that question to the DfE...she said it is the DfE who sets the fee not Ofsted

    Is E Truss aware of her dept remit?
    The article states that UKCMA asked questions on behalf on thousands of cms (not sure how many they have as members?)...

    I have to say those would not be the questions I would put to the Under Secretary, on behalf of thousands of CMs, if I had another chance to meet with her!!

    So again another wasted opportunity to get real answers for cms

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    No ours is not trialling agencies. But there must t be some sort of news for us to be called to a briefing meeting,
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

  22. #16
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadavi View Post
    No ours is not trialling agencies. But there must t be some sort of news for us to be called to a briefing meeting,
    Good luck at yours...I am off to mine in 1 hour.
    Lets see what news we get ?

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    Yup I will report back.

    Not expecting anything I don't know ie nothing haha
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

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    How did your meetings go?

  26. #19
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrsh3103 View Post
    How did your meetings go?
    Not sure if the question was directed at me but the meeting was ok
    Ofsted updates were shared...nothing new as we had already shared them all here in the forum a long time ago

    Some news on 2 yo funding...target not as yet achieved in my LA
    I asked for a more universal approach to the Progress check so that HV did take notice of what is in the report
    we discussed the DfE SEN consultation which is current at present..interesting changes coming

    I asked my EY team if we could refer to the 15 hrs 'early education funding' as that and not free childcare
    I questioned whether our rate would ever go up as it has been £3.50 for years and does not cover costs and makes us unsustainable

    Agencies??...not a mention of them ...not once!
    Last edited by Simona; 28-11-2013 at 07:19 PM.

 

 

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