Truss confirms she wants schools open all day

[SYLVIA]

It all sounds a bit up in the air to me. On one hand we have Truss wanting schools open all day and 2 year old sitting on chairs all day in school. Then we have the earlier post about parents being given the right to send summer babies in to school later. I getting a feeling that this woman and the government will put in a place a utter shambles of a system for childcare of all ages and then parents will find out that nothing works for them nor will it be cheaper. It seems so unworkable to parents carers and children. I think it needs taking bak to the drawing board and starting all over again. Or better still leave things as they are

[Mouse]

It all sounds a bit up in the air to me. On one hand we have Truss wanting schools open all day and 2 year old sitting on chairs all day in school. Then we have the earlier post about parents being given the right to send summer babies in to school later. I getting a feeling that this woman and the government will put in a place a utter shambles of a system for childcare of all ages and then parents will find out that nothing works for them nor will it be cheaper. It seems so unworkable to parents carers and children. I think it needs taking bak to the drawing board and starting all over again. Or better still leave things as they are

Do you know what I think? I think they should have consulted with parents, childcarers, schools, employers and children first. They should have asked what was needed and what was wanted. They should have made some suggestions and listened to what people were saying. They should have made plans based on what they'd learned from consultations with the people involved.

Now, wouldn't that have made sense?

[Simona]

Mouse...they did...in the Childcare Commission...almost a year ago!
Wraparound care and holiday care was one of the last questions on it: how to solve the shortage.
I like your suggestion about consulting with children as many would say they find these sessions boring!!

I think Truss is acting before she releases the response...but lets bear in mind that only 300 plus people responded to the commission in total (I forget the real figure now...328 or such like...very very poor show. Might be different now is we knew what was behind it?)

When she responds she will be able to say she has acted on it by opening schools and giving them the opportunity to fill the gap...I would bet some money that is how she will present it!

[Mouse]

I agree with that Simona. She seems to do a very good job of suggesting she has consulted with "lots" of people and that they all agree with her!

[lisbet]

In the city I live in nearly all the schools and nursery schools have offered wraparound care 8am-6pm for years now. A fair few of them run holiday clubs too. My children's school has a free breakfast club and charges £7.50 for the after school session.

There still seems to be a before/ after school market for CMs; either because there are limited spaces in ths school clubs, or because they are too expensive, or parents need earlier/ later hours, or because parents don't want them in school 10hrs a day!

I can't see how schools would be able to take two year olds here - they are absolutely bursting at the seems as it is. I think the nursery schools/ children's centres will take a few more assuming that the space requirements do get relaxed, but still nowhere near enough to meet the new 2yr old entitlement, because they having very child-centred, caring ethos' and would never 'pack them in like sardines'.

My LA is encouraging CMs to take funded 2yr olds.

Even if I can't see it having too much impact locally, in the near future at least, I still hate the ideology behind Truss' vision; Children who have only been on this planet for 24mths going into an institution to be formally educated for long hours everyday! (And none of the caring, creative teachers I know would want that either!)

[westbrom44]

When the labour government came up with the idea of keeping schools open to offer wrap around care quite a few years ago, even though childminders were already providing this service, the schools in my area introduced before and after school clubs. Local childminders were not happy as the schools took a lot of our business.

One school has closed its before and after school clubs due to lack of interest and another school is struggling with finances as there aren't enough children to make it viable.

Childminders in my area are now taking on before and after school children again.

None of the parents I have spoken to recently would want their 2 year olds in a school environment.

I am not at all concerned by this 'new' concept.

[Simona]

It looks like to me that on the subject of 2 year olds in schools and wraparound care cms will have to argue why our care is best, what we offer is more flexible and what is in the interest of the child...

The vast majority of these clubs do not provide any food especially dinner and do not have time for homework while some cms do this..... so what are the parents saving on if they have to go home and start cooking and do homework until 8pm??
and in the vast majority of cases children are stuck in one room with no access to the outdoors which is what they need most after 6 hrs in the classroom

In addition many cms also offer holiday care on top of wraparound care...so that is continuity for children and all from one provider instead of so many that confuse children and fragment their care

[Mouse]

It looks like to me that on the subject of 2 year olds in schools and wraparound care cms will have to argue why our care is best, what we offer is more flexible and what is in the interest of the child...

The vast majority of these clubs do not provide any food especially dinner and do not have time for homework while some cms do this..... so what are the parents saving on if they have to go home and start cooking and do homework until 8pm??
and in the vast majority of cases children are stuck in one room with no access to the outdoors which is what they need most after 6 hrs in the classroom

In addition many cms also offer holiday care on top of wraparound care...so that is continuity for children and all from one provider instead of so many that confuse children and fragment their care

Do you know what one of our biggest selling points is? A comfy sofa

I've said to parents "when will your child get chance to just sit and chill out on a comfy sofa?" If they've been at school all day, sitting on the floor or a hard chair, they need to be in a setting where they can relax comfortably. An afterschool club is just more of the same cold floors and uncomfortable chairs.
I have an ancient old sofa in my playroom - it's so soft and squidgy. The children will often snuggle on it for a little while, usually wrapped in a blanket. They'll watch what's going on, or look at a book, then get back down and join in again. It's an important part of their day. It gives them chance to rest and get away from the hustle and bustle for a while.

It does make parents think about how important a home based setting is

[The Juggler]

Mouse is right. I have a 2 year old, no way would I ever send her to school, I don't really like the idea of her going at 4/5. No of my parents would send their little ones either.

i guess the difference here is school will be free. wraparoudn care needs to be paid for. If parents need to go out to work and can't afford childcare - logical thing might be to put their 2 year old in school - sad as that is

[tashaleee]

i guess the difference here is school will be free. wraparoudn care needs to be paid for. If parents need to go out to work and can't afford childcare - logical thing might be to put their 2 year old in school - sad as that is

Whilst thats true I cant see it being for free because SOMEONE has to pay for the school spaces - around here the buildings are not large enough, the facilities dont exist (ie separate nursery rooms - often in separate buildings away from the main school) for 3/4 year olds that couldnt incorporate any younger children), I have 2 year olds that still sleep, the ratios for 2 year olds hasnt been mentioned (and as the ratios has not been agreed for an increase this is a factor as well), then we have safeguarding (personal care as nearly all children on the day they turn 2 are in nappies) so not just 'anyone' can change someone elses child's nappy, they are more likely to have accidents, schools follow the EYFS (more paperwork) - none of this can be done by 'volunteers' then they talk about taking away TAs/LSAs etc.....

To me I dont see how schools can feasibly take 2 year olds not matter what SHE sais - its just not thought through at all.....

[Simona]

This is what Truss says in the article:
''The proposals will set out plans for longer school days, which could see local childcare providers called in to look after pupils from 3pm or parents asked to run local school clubs, the minister said.

Ms Truss said: ‘We are hoping to have new proposals out shortly, particularly on schools-based childcare and how we’re going to enable more schools to offer that.’

'It can mean private sector nursery providers, voluntary sector providers or parents running an after school club.’
In her speech to about 50 working women, who are part of the networking group Citymothers, the Conservative minister said: ‘We want more schools to be involved in childcare''

She had dreamt up 'school based childcare' ...who are these providers? nursery providers and PVI sector...so that involves cms?
so let's see....we are all going to drop whatever we are doing at 3pm to run to the local school, other mindees in tow? to do the childcare when the school has done the education??

I smell a very big rat here...is she trying to put into action what Wilshaw wants cms to do: care not education...take us out of EYFS?

If it were true I would personally go to the DfE and put my certificate in her in tray!!!

[tashaleee]

This is what Truss says in the article:
''The proposals will set out plans for longer school days, which could see local childcare providers called in to look after pupils from 3pm or parents asked to run local school clubs, the minister said.

Ms Truss said: ‘We are hoping to have new proposals out shortly, particularly on schools-based childcare and how we’re going to enable more schools to offer that.’

'It can mean private sector nursery providers, voluntary sector providers or parents running an after school club.’
In her speech to about 50 working women, who are part of the networking group Citymothers, the Conservative minister said: ‘We want more schools to be involved in childcare''

She had dreamt up 'school based childcare' ...who are these providers? nursery providers and PVI sector...so that involves cms?
so let's see....we are all going to drop whatever we are doing at 3pm to run to the local school, other mindees in tow? to do the childcare when the school has done the education??

I smell a very big rat here...is she trying to put into action what Wilshaw wants cms to do: care not education...take us out of EYFS?

If it were true I would personally go to the DfE and put my certificate in her in tray!!!

Yes but surely schools still have ratios they have to adhere to?

For us to go back purely to care and not education is a step back over 10 years to where we were before Ofsted took over so taking us out of the EYFS would mean we cant care for the 2 year olds and we are supposedly key to their scheme plus no accredited 3/4 year olds - simply doesnt make sense

Schools dont have the space (at least in my area) to have the right facilities for 2 year olds - in fact we are in the middle of changing from 3 to 2 tier and thats enough of an issue!

If a parent, for example, was to help out voluntarily how would they do it with other children of differing ages (safeguarding, knowledge, experience, etc) - we all know what the school holidays are like with a mixed age range

Schools a few years ago brought in the breakfast clubs and wrap around care - there is very little uptake of either here and many have closed down

It just seems to me like she has opened her mouth without actually thinking how this can work in reality - because like agencies it simply cant.... (or at least I cant see how it can...)

[The Juggler]

Whilst thats true I cant see it being for free because SOMEONE has to pay for the school spaces - around here the buildings are not large enough, the facilities dont exist (ie separate nursery rooms - often in separate buildings away from the main school) for 3/4 year olds that couldnt incorporate any younger children), I have 2 year olds that still sleep, the ratios for 2 year olds hasnt been mentioned (and as the ratios has not been agreed for an increase this is a factor as well), then we have safeguarding (personal care as nearly all children on the day they turn 2 are in nappies) so not just 'anyone' can change someone elses child's nappy, they are more likely to have accidents, schools follow the EYFS (more paperwork) - none of this can be done by 'volunteers' then they talk about taking away TAs/LSAs etc.....

To me I dont see how schools can feasibly take 2 year olds not matter what SHE sais - its just not thought through at all.....

exactly ,she hasn't thought it through - the cost on the government for 6 hours of free education/childcare every day would be HUGE - where are they going to find that money - can't see the government agreeing to it.

2 year olds need love, care and attention - can ANYONE imagine 30 2 year olds in a room together. If she does get her way I see no option than multi-story primary/nursery schools - horrible thought

[Simona]

Tashalee...Truss is going to remove any restrictions currently in place on schools for taking younger children, therefore I gather from what I have heard at the conferences it will be easy for them to set us these clubs

I feel that Truss is panicking a bit...she has not solved the issue of cost of childcare
she is pouring money into projects no one knows if they will work and to top it all the holiday care issue is unresolved...she asked in the CCommission and has no clue how to solve it...
actually it is very simple but no point in telling her so she is opening all the schools doors and between now and September all the after school care will be sorted!!!

She is certainly an incompetent dreamer!!

[rickysmiths]

Whilst thats true I cant see it being for free because SOMEONE has to pay for the school spaces - around here the buildings are not large enough, the facilities dont exist (ie separate nursery rooms - often in separate buildings away from the main school) for 3/4 year olds that couldnt incorporate any younger children), I have 2 year olds that still sleep, the ratios for 2 year olds hasnt been mentioned (and as the ratios has not been agreed for an increase this is a factor as well), then we have safeguarding (personal care as nearly all children on the day they turn 2 are in nappies) so not just 'anyone' can change someone elses child's nappy, they are more likely to have accidents, schools follow the EYFS (more paperwork) - none of this can be done by 'volunteers' then they talk about taking away TAs/LSAs etc.....

To me I dont see how schools can feasibly take 2 year olds not matter what SHE sais - its just not thought through at all.....

I was at a meeting in London last week which was attended by a lot of local authorities. The question of 2 year olds in school was brought up and it was very clear that there are plenty of schools who are as we type, making provision to take 2 year olds from this September. They are being offered £300-£400 per head on top of the 2 year funding to take them. As far as was said at the meeting staffing will be the same as for 3-4 year olds.

Parents will use this because it is Free Childcare. Many parents have no idea that all childminders from Sept will be able to offer the same 'free' care and do it so much better.

[Mouse]

I feel that Truss is panicking a bit...she has not solved the issue of cost of childcare


She is certainly an incompetent dreamer!!

She hasn't actually solved anything, has she?

How long has this all been up in the air now? Too long!

How many of her proposals have been accepted & finalised? None that I know of!

How many of her proposals can we see being successful? None!

No wonder she's panicking. She has solved absolutely nothing and has in fact caused more problems that she's even attempted to solve. The whole thing is just one big, disorganised mess.

[rickysmiths]

[QUOTE=Simona;1263586]Tashalee...Truss is going to remove any restrictions currently in place on schools for taking younger children, therefore I gather from what I have heard at the conferences it will be easy for them to set us these clubs

I feel that Truss is panicking a bit...she has not solved the issue of cost of childcare
she is pouring money into projects no one knows if they will work and to top it all the holiday care issue is unresolved...she asked in the CCommission and has no clue how to solve it...
actually it is very simple but no point in telling her so she is opening all the schools doors and between now and September all the after school care will be sorted!!!

She is certainly an incompetent dreamer!![/QUOTE]

No she is a focused Politician who has been told to reduce the cost of childcare and will do this at any cost. Especially as she has her sights on being PM. She is another Blair and does not care a jot about the children of this Country or the effect her policies may have on their future, the same way Blair had no interest in this Country, all he wanted was to be top dog in Europe and they saw sense and didn't vote him their President.

[Simona]

I was at the conference the day before but the 2 year olds in schools were not discussed...just that cms must be included in the scheme
thank you for feeding back on what you heard at yours with the LAs present
I wonder why my LA emailed me last week, after the conference you mention and which I know they attended and told me they are still looking for further guidance from the DfE about allowing cms in the scheme?

Yes I know that schools are getting ready this very minute for the 2 year olds...I gathered that and, of course, they will be financially rewarded for doing so
They still need the restrictions removed to take them and Ofsted have clearly said they will remove them to facilitate the process
Schools have less space..is this why the space allocation in the EYFS is being reviewed?

Truss or any other politicians have 'the cost of childcare' in their aim, it is all we hear...I do not know how what she is proposing will reduce it unless the Free Entitlement is index linked and covers our costs...it is not our duty to subsidise education

I wonder how many parents actually know that we subsidise their childcare?...those I tell are shocked and most are well off.
with less than 2 months to go Truss is still dishing out new proposals...when will they be consulted upon or we get a chance to respond?

[Simona]

Rickysmiths...I wonder if you would be so kind as to feedback on your conference
It must have been very informative, was it the one attended by pacey as well...I assume James Hempsall was there? and if I am not wrong so was David Fitzgerald from the DfE (same one who attended the London pacey launch event)

if so any feedback would be of great help to those cms still fighting with their LA..
thank you

[The Juggler]

[QUOTE=rickysmiths;1263592]

Tashalee...Truss is going to remove any restrictions currently in place on schools for taking younger children, therefore I gather from what I have heard at the conferences it will be easy for them to set us these clubs

I feel that Truss is panicking a bit...she has not solved the issue of cost of childcare
she is pouring money into projects no one knows if they will work and to top it all the holiday care issue is unresolved...she asked in the CCommission and has no clue how to solve it...
actually it is very simple but no point in telling her so she is opening all the schools doors and between now and September all the after school care will be sorted!!!

She is certainly an incompetent dreamer!![/QUOTE]

No she is a focused Politician who has been told to reduce the cost of childcare and will do this at any cost. Especially as she has her sights on being PM. She is another Blair and does not care a jot about the children of this Country or the effect her policies may have on their future, the same way Blair had no interest in this Country, all he wanted was to be top dog in Europe and they saw sense and didn't vote him their President.

she'll be reducing the cost of childcare to parents but at a HUGE cost to the Government. Not sure the chancellor will like that!