Govt e-petition against higher ratios
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  1. #1
    Simona Guest

    Default Govt e-petition against higher ratios

    We are all aware that there are 3 petitions against 'higher ratios'

    The forum's own has reached a fantastic 50,000 signatures and I am sure they will continue to rise

    Neil Leitch of Pre School Learning Alliance (PLA) has also launched the 'Rewind on ratios'
    This is an e-petition and the only one that WILL trigger a debate in the House of Commons if 100,000 signatures are achieved!!!

    According to the e-petition rules once it achieves 10,000 signatures the govt has to respond...this govt won't do that, it has announced yesterday it will delay any response until the have responded to the ratio consultation first!

    Proposals about MGC have triggered much controversy but this govt won't budge...in fact so many of the proposals appear to be in place even before any consultations have been responded to

    We need more votes for the e-petition...if you have signed any other, it won't matter as you can sign any you like but please sign this one as well...it is the only chance to get heard

    At present it has just over 13,000 signatures...not near enough and time is running out... and yet the vast majority of providers are against hgher ratios....96,000 of us can make a difference

    Please sign and pass on to Facebook or anywhere you can

    Call for Government to scrap its plans on childcare ratio changes and undertake a full consultation with practitioners and parents on future proposals - e-petitions

  2. #2
    Simona Guest

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    I wonder if anyone can explain why the 2 non e-petitions have now gathered over 80,000 signatures but this one still struggles with just over 13,000 ???
    This is THE petition that will take the ratio debate to the House of Commons and make the govt, Truss et al and DfE answer to it....I find it quite difficult to explain but maybe someone has an idea why this is happening....

  3. #3
    Simona Guest

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    I know that I keep going on about this e-petition but I wonder if you have noticed that this week the govt has done two 2 Turns with Ian Duncan Smith and Jeremy Hunt having to account themselves on their reforms...who knows that this won't happen for our childcare reforms??

    We have the forum petition, which has a huge number of signatures now with over 52,000 and another one BUT neither have the power to get debated in the House of Commons only the e-petition has

    I am surprised it is not raising the signatures it deserves...or maybe some have become tired of the whole campaign??
    don't take your eyes off it !

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    Personally, I haven't signed any of the petitions as I would like an increase in ratios. I am also immediately put off by anything that gets the childminder ratios wrong! By saying "Childminders could be expected to care for four children under five (up from three) and two babies under one (up from one)" makes it look as if we could care for 6 children. The least they could do is get it right (ie. 4 children, of which 2 could be under 1).

    But that hasn't stopped me forwarding details of them all to our local childminders, to parents, to the LA etc. Just because I don't sign them doesn't mean others shouldn't have the info.

    The response to this third survey has been "not another one" and "what's the point if nothing is being done"...as well as "what ratio changes?" (some people are still very unaware of any aspect of MGC). I have also found that there have been so many petitions, consultations etc that people have forgotten what they've already done & what they haven't. Another comment I'm getting is "haven't we already done that one?"

    I think so many childminders who are interested (but not as dedicated to the cause as others) are tired by it all and losing interest.

  5. #5
    Simona Guest

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    I agree with you Mouse especially on the ratios when it comes to cms...I was talking to a journalist the other day who had not realised what cms can do now, my worry is why ratios have taken over all other issues?
    Something must have made Clegg and Cameron think twice and come out with their statements recently (not that I trust either of them)...is it the constant pressure?

    My view is that if anything was so clear with this govt we would have had some proposals out by now...with just 7 weeks to go before the MPs go on their long break they are still debating and behind closed doors
    They have given the impression of doing every thing in a democratic way but have ignored the very basics of democracy: listening!

    I can tell that many cms are still sleepwalking while others are saturated with all sorts of petitions and consultations but others have focussed on the important bits and can see and think clearly

    The e-petition is the only action that would bring MPs to a democratic debate where the law is made..I feel it would be a great missed opportunity if it did not happen...but that's only my view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post


    The e-petition is the only action that would bring MPs to a democratic debate where the law is made..I feel it would be a great missed opportunity if it did not happen...but that's only my view.
    I agree with that. If this is the petition that could make a difference it's a shame it came out later than the others and has got lost in all the other info, petitions, groups etc.

    My frustration is aimed at the lack of info and lack of urgency coming out from government departments. We had this big MGC announcement, then nothing concrete at all. It's been said these changes are to take place from Sept. That's only 3 months away and, as you rightly say, there's the long MP break in that time. Are these plans still to go ahead in Sept? Are they postponed until the government actually decide what they're going to do? Is it all going to be put on a back burner until the agencies model is tried?

  7. #7
    Simona Guest

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    Mouse...you are spot on! and I hope I am not giving the impression that to me personally ratios matter above everything else?
    They are part of the campaign but, as you can see from the questions I put to pacey yesterday, only a tiny part as agencies and other things worry me most about the future of our businesses

    If ratios are introduced in the EYFS in a different way from the present 'exceptional circumstances' then I will follow Truss's suggestion that it will be down to my professional judgement to increase or otherwise but I know many are worried about those who abuse the system (and many are because the system does not allow for accountability) and nurseries and preschools are worried about something totally different hence the reason they are more vocal on the subject.

    On a different note which may give us all cause to reflect...today is #badgersaturday...a demonstration in London against the proposed badger cull...
    it has been started by Brian May of Queen who also started an e-petition against the cull and believe it or not that petition has raised over 234,000 signatures in a short time!!
    Stop the badger cull - e-petitions

    I can bet anything that demonstration will be on the news today...will #reclaimearlyyears feature equally?

    Who do we care more for...animals or children??? ironic I think!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post

    Who do we care more for...animals or children??? ironic I think!
    Sadly, I think you have hit the nail on the head there

  9. #9
    Simona Guest

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    Thanks Mouse...it's been great exchanging idea and opinions in this thread!

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    i have signed this Simona but I don't understand why Neil Leitch started his own petition when there were 2 already with over 20k signatures which have increased since his started. Seems a bit daft.

    Mouse I understand your position totally. I think the ratios increase is more worrying for nursery working myself - and the advantages that can be taken of increased ratios in larger group setttings and then when you have sick staff etc, how this can mean nurseries working out of ratios - when staff are already stretched. Plus I fear the impact that nurseries taking on more children will have on childminder businesses - i.e less children to go around
    if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    Mouse...you are spot on! and I hope I am not giving the impression that to me personally ratios matter above everything else?
    They are part of the campaign but, as you can see from the questions I put to pacey yesterday, only a tiny part as agencies and other things worry me most about the future of our businesses

    If ratios are introduced in the EYFS in a different way from the present 'exceptional circumstances' then I will follow Truss's suggestion that it will be down to my professional judgement to increase or otherwise but I know many are worried about those who abuse the system (and many are because the system does not allow for accountability) and nurseries and preschools are worried about something totally different hence the reason they are more vocal on the subject.

    On a different note which may give us all cause to reflect...today is #badgersaturday...a demonstration in London against the proposed badger cull...
    it has been started by Brian May of Queen who also started an e-petition against the cull and believe it or not that petition has raised over 234,000 signatures in a short time!!
    Stop the badger cull - e-petitions

    I can bet anything that demonstration will be on the news today...will #reclaimearlyyears feature equally?

    Who do we care more for...animals or children??? ironic I think!


    Im not even sure if I have signed it.

    The reason the badger petition gets so much more support is that they are going to slaughter the badgers and its being fronted by an influential celebrity. Oh and they are doing a demonstration outside downing st not having picnics in the park.
    When someone tells you nothing is impossible, tell them to go slam a revolving door

  12. #12
    Simona Guest

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    The 2 petitions, worthy as they are, are not e-petitions and therefore do not get the same response...only e-petitions get debated in the House of Commons by all parties if 100,000 signatures are raised and after 10,000 they automatically get a govt response but this govt has decided they will respond when they are ready....

    the reason it was started is because the govt was taking no notice of the online petitions but unfortunately the signatures could not be transferred due to e-petition rules.
    I did ask Neil this very question and that is what he said....I will see him next Friday and ask again, maybe we do need a 'celebrity' but I would have thought we have enough famous experts who could have put their name behind it
    I have seen little support from other associations while PLA tweets almost daily about the petition and their website cannot be accessed without seeing the petition advert first

    If anyone can go back a few months look at my posts as I called for a meeting in Trafalgar Square...buggies in tow...all I got was that cms were not prepared to join, would not travel, lived too far away etc
    Marches were discussed but all died down and was shrouded in secrecy

    I would have been the first one to get to London today in an arranged venue rather than picnic...but it was not even mentioned

    My very personal opinion would be to have a petition that covers the whole of the reforms so everyone could have something to sign for...is it too late???
    I never seem to give up or run out of ideas
    Today is not just about ratios is also about agencies and the rest that will affect cms

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    The 2 petitions, worthy as they are, are not e-petitions and therefore do not get the same response...only e-petitions get debated in the House of Commons by all parties if 100,000 signatures are raised and after 10,000 they automatically get a govt response but this govt has decided they will respond when they are ready....

    the reason it was started is because the govt was taking no notice of the online petitions but unfortunately the signatures could not be transferred due to e-petition rules.
    I did ask Neil this very question and that is what he said....I will see him next Friday and ask again, maybe we do need a 'celebrity' but I would have thought we have enough famous experts who could have put their name behind it
    I have seen little support from other associations while PLA tweets almost daily about the petition and their website cannot be accessed without seeing the petition advert first

    If anyone can go back a few months look at my posts as I called for a meeting in Trafalgar Square...buggies in tow...all I got was that cms were not prepared to join, would not travel, lived too far away etc
    Marches were discussed but all died down and was shrouded in secrecy

    I would have been the first one to get to London today in an arranged venue rather than picnic...but it was not even mentioned

    My very personal opinion would be to have a petition that covers the whole of the reforms so everyone could have something to sign for...is it too late???
    I never seem to give up or run out of ideas
    Today is not just about ratios is also about agencies and the rest that will affect cms


    simona, I'm def. up for trafalgar square. however, I don't think with buggies in tow. They are not our children and I don't think we should involve them in this. If mums' want to join in with their own children that's fine. It is very difficult to travel london transport with buggies also. Also I understnad people from further away can't get here mid week with buggies or where it might mean taking a day off work - whereas those further away might come at a weekend when they don't have to rush back for pick ups and can then stay and make a day of it in London.

    I'm up for it - though I think we should protest at Downing Street as close as we can get. How many on here would join and how many of us have FB friends who would join. *** it, let's put the word out there. Let's get a date and do it. Any date suggestions peeps - July before Parliament closes sounds good to me
    Last edited by The Juggler; 01-06-2013 at 02:14 PM.
    if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Juggler View Post
    simona, I'm def. up for trafalgar square. however, I don't think with buggies in tow. They are not our children and I don't think we should involve them in this. If mums' want to join in with their own children that's fine. It is very difficult to travel london transport with buggies also. Also I understnad people from further away can't get here mid week with buggies or where it might mean taking a day off work - whereas those further away might come at a weekend when they don't have to rush back for pick ups and can then stay and make a day of it in London.

    I'm up for it - though I think we should protest at Downing Street as close as we can get. How many on here would join and how many of us have FB friends who would join. *** it, let's put the word out there. Let's get a date and do it. Any date suggestions peeps - July before Parliament closes sounds good to me
    oops - sorry mods, didn't realise that was a naughty word
    if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got

  16. #15
    Simona Guest

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    Just back from the gym so my thoughts are a bit clearer!

    Yes Juggler great idea....I am up for Trafalgar Square...Downing St is only a short walk away and weekend sounds great too...anyone travelling down can have a free bed at my house!!!

    What if the Childminding Forum arranges it for cms?...come on lets do something otherwise I'll sit here and think of more questions to ask and get more frustrated by no real answers!!
    We could leave the forum petition on the 4th plinth if it is vacant!!! ha ha!!

    Saturday dates in July are: 6, 13, 20 or 27...when do MPs go off for their long break???
    I can find that out on Monday...anyone up for it???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    Just back from the gym so my thoughts are a bit clearer!

    Yes Juggler great idea....I am up for Trafalgar Square...Downing St is only a short walk away and weekend sounds great too...anyone travelling down can have a free bed at my house!!!

    What if the Childminding Forum arranges it for cms?...come on lets do something otherwise I'll sit here and think of more questions to ask and get more frustrated by no real answers!!
    We could leave the forum petition on the 4th plinth if it is vacant!!! ha ha!!

    Saturday dates in July are: 6, 13, 20 or 27...when do MPs go off for their long break???
    I can find that out on Monday...anyone up for it???
    I am def. up for it. free bed at mine (well floor and blow up mattress) too. I think we should just stand outside the gates of downing street and march up and down

    27th might be late - they might have finished? Have to go jiggle a few prior arrangements for 1st 2 Saturdays and let you know.
    if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got

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    Well done ladies - some real action!

    I couldn't attend as I don't have the time to travel that far, but I would support you in any other way I could. It would be wonderful to bring the whole MGC agenda to the public's attention

  19. #18
    Simona Guest

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    OK I am ready to go...
    Mouse can you not make a weekend and stay for one night??
    I can put up 3 comfortably and after go for a great meal???
    Plus collect and return anyone from train station

    I will get date on Monday when MPs break up ...I'm in touch with Sharon Hodgson all the time so will ask her
    We need a definite Saturday date
    What are we nicely 'protesting' about? cms issues or MGC generally?

    Sarah...can we represent the petition to Downing Street for Cameron to pour over during his holidays??

    Please input and lets make a good effort for cms ...no one else will otherwise!

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    I'm up for it depending on which Saturday it is.

    I think we should definitely march from Trafalgar Square to downing street, carrying the Petition with us if possible.
    If there was enough support we may find that the BBC would be interested. Especially if we say we've been pushed into this because the Government are refusing to respond to our concerns for the children who are the future of this country.

    As for a celebrity to raise the profile, - who knows a famous mother from the film/music world based in or visiting London.? Who's high profile at the moment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Juggler View Post
    I am def. up for it. free bed at mine (well floor and blow up mattress) too. I think we should just stand outside the gates of downing street and march up and down

    27th might be late - they might have finished? Have to go jiggle a few prior arrangements for 1st 2 Saturdays and let you know.
    A trip to London again sounds lovely but typically the only day I could do in July would be the 27th.

    Maybe try to arrange the meet up we had last year on that day too
    When someone tells you nothing is impossible, tell them to go slam a revolving door

 

 
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