If you support deregulation...

[sarah707]

I promise I will not bite!

Please let me know... in a pm if you do not want it known on the forum... why you would like to be deregulated from Ofsted.

Is it about inspections? Do you go to pieces... do you not want them any more?

Do you think there will be less paperwork if you are no longer registered with Ofsted?

Are you happy to lose access to tax credits etc? Does that type of funding not really apply to you?

Are you keen to pay money to an agency and let them do your marketing for you?

Do you dislike being self employed and want someone to collect money etc on your behalf?

Are you intending to resign / retire soon anyway so don't feel it applies to you?

Or are there other reasons...?

Thank you

[breezy]

I dont support deregulation, but was wondering, are there any advantages / benefits to childminders at all? I cant find any and wonder why we havent been consulted on this rather than having to mount petitions.

Are there any minders out there who can see any benefits?

As Sarah says please voice your opinions if you support deregulation, we wont bite and another point of view is worth listening to.

[boxtree7]

Its my business not a pass time ..................................... I think for childminding this would be a massive step backwards.

I have always enjoyed my inspection days - I have always planned for children in my care BUT I really don't like that I have to do it this way or I have to do that way - I loved doing scrap books for the children filled with photos and pictures without an observation or assessment attached. I am not very good at selling my product but I now all the children that arrive in my home run up the path every morning and moan going down the path of an evening this is something ofsted never sees.

[miffy]

Just to be clear that I DON'T support deregulation but, to play devil's advocate, if it meant that

* I didn't have to complete endless, sometimes pointless, paperwork to evidence every single thing I do then that would be a positive for me.

* If the inspection procedure was more like it was when I first started (done by LA under 8's officers twice a year - one visit by appointment and one spot check) where the under 8"s officer knew you (and all your competitors) and offered advice and support as well as making sure you adhered to all the rules, that would be a positive for me too. There is no reason under this system that you couldn't keep individual grades.

You asked about people intending to retire/give up - I'd hoped I'd got a few more years left but I have decided that if these changes go through and I am forced to work via an agency for a fee then I will give up my registration.

Miffy xx

[sarah707]

In the Netherlands model I am reading about the paperwork burden appears to be just as heavy - but it is set by the agency and childminders use their forms and documents rather than their own.

Some might prefer this as they feel lost trying to design their own stuff... others might be concerned that they are losing their individuality and sense of uniqueness... and might struggle to complete something not specifically designed for and by themselves.

In the Netherlands model inspections appear to be much more frequent - 2 or 3 unannounced agency inspections a year have been suggested. I wonder if this would lead to more pressure on childminders rather than less?

However, I am trying to remain on the fence here ... and as Miffy says it might be nice to have someone supportive and local visiting regularly with help and advice.

It would of course depend on who was the local agency though - if it was the local nursery doing your marketing and advertising, collecting money for and from you, offering CPD training during the day to support their own staff at the same time etc and inspecting you... hmmm what do people think about that????

A childminder has contacted me to say that she has had problems with 2 non payers and feels that if agencies were collecting money on her behalf this wouldn't happen any more... which seems to be a valid argument. However if she took a deposit, money in advance and tightened up her contracts (as I have now advised her) non payment wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

Thank you to those who have sent me pms... more please!

[jumping j]

In the Netherlands model inspections appear to be much more frequent - 2 or 3 unannounced agency inspections a year have been suggested. I wonder if this would lead to more pressure on childminders rather than less?

If we had 2 or 3 inspections a year would it really save much money on the cost of inspection, no matter who or how they got done?

[miffy]

If we had 2 or 3 inspections a year would it really save much money on the cost of inspection, no matter who or how they got done?

For the Govt yes, as the cost would be borne by the agency (and ultimately by us the childminders!)

Miffy xx

[EmmaReed84]

To be fair I am just getting to grips with all this EYFS stuff, and starting to understand more of what I should be doing. I like the structure it gives me, however don't like all the paperwork. Nor do I like the fact I know my children... very well. I know what they can and cannot do, what they do and do not like, anyone can ask me any question about my kids and I will answer it, yet I struggle getting pen to paper, therefore I am deemed as only satisfactory... although all my parents say different.

I was talking to MIL yesterday and mentioned the de-regulation and she said "Great! I can't stand the EYFS and Ofsted. I just want to have my kids, look after them and give them back at the end of the day. I have brought up 4 kids and had 5 grandchildren! I don't need some stuck up oink who probably has no kids tell me I am SATISFACTORY because I have not logged every single little thing! I can't do paper work... I can look after kids!" Not the EXACT words but pretty close... I get what she is saying and agree on that side of things.

To be completely honest I am not 100% sure of how all this will work. I read these posts but as I have only been minding less than I year I don't feel I know even about it all.

[Mouse]

These are the ideas of some minders in our local group. Perhaps they're not factually correct, perhaps some are contradictory, but this is what they think are the positives:

Paperwork
- there would be less paperwork, no need for LJs, development checks, observations etc
- standardised paperwork set by the agency. So much better having someone tell you what to do rather than having to do it yourself & never being quite sure if it's right

Inspections/Grades
- cms with a current satisfactory grade are quite happy to lose it
- less pressure over inspections. Less need to show evidence for everything
- unannounced, more regular inspections would be good & would mean cms would always have to be doing well
- if you didn't do well at one inspection, you could put it right & be re-inspected sooner. Unfair that with Ofsted it can be 3+ years before you can improve your grade
- if you have a bad inspection it doesn't matter because you're not graded on it

Agencies
- don't believe it is just going to be a case of a nursery coming in to inspect you. Agencies will have to be properly set up & run
- will be good to have a local contact and support. Now there is no early years team there is no one to phone for a chat when you need help or advice
- now we have no training at all. Will be good if an agency puts on training
- if the agency charges a % of earnings we won't be paying out a fortune when earnings are low
- an agency will help us get work
- they will advertise for us
- they will deal with the money side of things, which many hate doing themselves
- less chance of parents leaving owing you money
- hopefully several different agencies to chose from, so they will have to be good to compete for business. They'll have to offer something special if they want us to sign up with them
- parents would still be able to claim tax credits, but with an agency running it there's less chance of parents over claiming. Payments could go straight to an agency, not to the parents.
- can still be self employed even through an agency
- an agency would negotiate holiday pay and sick pay for us
- childminders who struggle to get work now and have had to lower their fees welcome the idea of an agency setting the fees as they will get the same as everyone else

Tax credits
- don't believe the government will turn round and say parents can no longer claim tax credits to pay a childminder. Where would all the children go instead? There are not enough nursery places to take them all.
- if the government did propose it there would be so much outcry that they'd do a u-turn, as they have on other proposals
- no one has said parents won't be able to claim tax credits for a childminder. That's just trying to panic people when it's not even likely to happen.

[Lady Haha]

no one has said parents won't be able to claim tax credits for a childminder. That's just trying to panic people when it's not even likely to happen.

This is the bit that stands out to me. I was panicked by the thought of this and the rumours. But having now read the paper (and I can't remember the exact words) but it said parents WILL be able to use tax credits if using a childminder via agency (although it mentions universal credit instead).

I am not entirely sure I know what I want at the moment! There ARE positives to being under an agency if we are still self employed, but we need to be consulted properly and given the opportunity to have our say in this.

I'm sticking to the petition, but now my priority is to be consulted before any decision is made. If and when we have all the facts, I might decide I like the agency idea!

[Kiddleywinks]

[I]
I'm sticking to the petition, but now my priority is to be consulted before any decision is made. If and when we have all the facts, I might decide I like the agency idea!

This is where the problem lies... childminders (at least to my knowledge) HAVEN'T been consulted

I agree about the panic reaction, but that's because we had no information prior to the consultation (??) paper being published, and in fact, still haven't had any 'official' contact about what the proposals are/could be

I'm still waiting to be informed of any changes through official channels.....

[EmmaReed84]

Feels like our lives are being decided for us and we have no say whatsoever.

[Twinkles]

The childminders I have spoken to who are happy about deregulation are saying;

Great less unnecessary paperwork

A local person to inspect - some are hoping it would be like it was in the old days with a very informal inspection ie; 'Have you got a fire blanket, first aid kit and first aid certificate'

Some can't see past the 'you may be able to have more children ' bit




I didn't realise that some areas don't have an early years team ? We still have ours and I supposed the inspections could go back to them.

[Mouse]

I didn't realise that some areas don't have an early years team ? We still have ours and I supposed the inspections could go back to them.

We do technically have an early years team - it seems to be one part time worker covering childminders, nurseries, playgroups etc., and an admin team. We have very little contact with them other than the odd email.

Previously we had a dozen or so workers. Many were ex-childminders who fought for us to be included in training, grants etc. We were very well looked after. Most childminders had one particular DO who they were linked to and who they would contact for help. A lot of our group are hoping an agency would provide something similar.

[Penny1959]

Ok - so as you know I am very anti agency model - and I want to maintain my right to be inspected by what I do not what others do

However

It does not mean I think the current Ofsted system is right - far from it!

My objections to the agency model are many - especially with the news that anyone can tender to run CC (and from my understanding to tender to oversee the delivery of the FE)

The localism issue will I think make things so - well - local. Standaisation will go out of the window - it is bad enough with 150 LA's and goodness knows how many Ofsted inspectors. Think how it would be if every CC was run by a different group of people / organisation.

I digress

So possible benefits of not being registered by Ofsted

Local inspectors can get to know you - your strenghts and weakness - support could be tailored to individual needs.

Local inspectors far more likely to be able to hear about / see bad practice and support or deregister.

Far more likely to be able to demonstrate what we do as will know local inspectors (due to same one each time) and so less likely to clam up

In many ways I liked the Social Services days - more flexible for us and the children - especially for those 'emergency placements as local inspectors would know who had spaces AND who was capable to have permission to exceed ratio's.

However I do like the professionalism of most childminders now and the more (not quite there) playing field with other settings - so I do not want to return to a baby sitting sort of setting - and I want to quality assured in some way through inspection - but not necessarily through the grade system we have now.

Sorry I have rambled - but in summary I can see some benefits to not having Ofsted as our regulatory body

Penny

[sarah707]

Mouse that is an excellent list thank you very much for compiling it xx

It backs up what I am being told privately and what members are saying in pms.

Mostly childminders who do not want to be regulated by Ofsted are focussing on the issues you have raised surrounding quality of care -

- No more complying with the EYFS;

- No need to write P & Ps and other documents for parents or involve parents in children's learning (which doesn't interest them anyway);

- No more planning, observations and learning journeys;

- No need for development checks and early intervention;

- No working to liaise with other settings;

- Not having to do first aid - one childminder suggested because she hates the blood bits...

- Not having to register to take photos (not having to take photos even!) etc etc etc...

And the fact that they really do not care if all this is lost because they will potentially be earning more money.

And following what it says in the Truss report about how things are run in Canada they might be able to have 5 children without being registered anyway...

So if they are deregistered because they refuse to toe the line with the agency they will just offer parents the option of unregistered care which most will take if it saves them money.

Ho hum... thanks again guys

[bandlady]

Whilst i do not agree with total deregulation I do believe that some changes need to be made.

As one of the oldies on the forum I have seen many changes over the years, some good and some not so good. I personally feel that Childminding has become to professional and whilst that is good for some I feel that for most of us it is a step too far. I do feel some form of qualification should be compulsory so that we can fully understand EYFS and how to implement in our settings but i do not feel that we should have to constantly show evidence of how we use it. Good quality home based childcare should be just that HOME BASED not an educational setting, leave that to the local preschools who provide excellent preschool education where a child can be prepared for starting school.

I think we need some form of regulator who is more hands on in helping us with training ,treat us as individuals and more importantly listen to us and help us provide a service that parents want. I for one do not think we need to do anywhere near the amount of paperwork. Yes to policies, procedures, risk assessments and any paperwork needed to run our own business but planning, learning journals, observations daily dairies are extras that I do not think we need to do. Good verbal interaction with parents is more than good enough. I always find time at the end of each day when a child is being collected to speak to the parents even if I have more than one parent here at a time we all chat together about the day (obviously if I need to talk privately to a parent then that is done at a convenient time for us both).

One area I do think needs to be looked into is the number of children that we can care for. For some 3 EYFS aged children is more than enough for me personally I would like that number to be increased to 5 EYFS aged children to help me to run my business how I want to. I work very closely with the local preschool and provide wraparound care for 2 and 3 year olds before and after their preschool day and obviously this means that I find it difficult to fill spaces that I have available during the day (odd mornings and afternoons) and have had to apply for numerous variations over the years to accommodate all the children I care for. This as we all know takes time, can become quite stressful and can often result in losing business because paperwork is not completed in time. I now have family members registered as assistants to enable me to increase my numbers to run my childcare business successfully. This is one of the reasons I feel we need a regulator who can treat us as individuals and give us more flexibility to allow us to run our businesses to the best of our ability.

Sorry I have rambled on a bit but I feel that Childminders are being put under far too much pressure to provide a service that is already being provided in preschools and nurseries. Home based childcare should be just that, good solid childcare with plenty of opportunities to nurture in the home environment where there is no pressure on the child or the minder to provide evidence of what either can or cant do.

So to conclude no to total deregulation but yes to some major changes being made.

Denise

[Bridey]

- Not having to do first aid - one childminder suggested because she hates the blood bits...

Even when we were 'ruled' by social services, this was a requirement of our registration, I can't see that changing.

[JCrakers]

I don't want to be deregulated as I don't like the idea of an agency. I'm not keen in paying a percentage of my wages and letting them dictate my work, im NNEB and dont want to babysit children, although....

I have 6 EY children and do find it slightly too much paperwork
I do find it very hard to find children and if an agency was to advertise for me this would help me
I wasn't happy with my ofsted grade and feel I was unfairly graded as the woman didn't have a clue
If the paperwork was less it would enable me to take on more children I suppose

What I don't like is the fact that all the people it's going to affect the most ( the childminders) haven't been consulted at all..I find it all a bit sneaky and behind our backs

[rickysmiths]

In the Netherlands model I am reading about the paperwork burden appears to be just as heavy - but it is set by the agency and childminders use their forms and documents rather than their own.

Some might prefer this as they feel lost trying to design their own stuff... others might be concerned that they are losing their individuality and sense of uniqueness... and might struggle to complete something not specifically designed for and by themselves.

In the Netherlands model inspections appear to be much more frequent - 2 or 3 unannounced agency inspections a year have been suggested. I wonder if this would lead to more pressure on childminders rather than less?


I don't have a problem with inspections but 2 or 3 a year seems way over the top and expensive to me.


However, I am trying to remain on the fence here ... and as Miffy says it might be nice to have someone supportive and local visiting regularly with help and advice.

It would of course depend on who was the local agency though - if it was the local nursery doing your marketing and advertising, collecting money for and from you, offering CPD training during the day to support their own staff at the same time etc and inspecting you... hmmm what do people think about that????

Our local Nursery has only ever been graded Satisfactory and on has to ask why. I have never been graded less than Good or Good with Outstandings so how would they be qualified to offer me support and training? Surely they need to raise their own game before taking on others?Why would I trust my profit making competitor to do the marketing and advertising for my profit making business?


A childminder has contacted me to say that she has had problems with 2 non payers and feels that if agencies were collecting money on her behalf this wouldn't happen any more... which seems to be a valid argument. However if she took a deposit, money in advance and tightened up her contracts (as I have now advised her) non payment wouldn't be an issue in the first place.


I agree Sarah, I only had one parent leave me owing me money and now I have robust policies in place so this won't happen again.

Thank you to those who have sent me pms... more please!

I have met two childminders this morning, one who wants deregulation so no more inspections! The other does not want it but won't complain because she doesn't think her voice will be heard so what is the point!