This is what the NCMA wants

[MrAnchovy]

I'm not sure where to post this, but here goes...

I have been looking at the NCMA response (http://www.*************/PDF/NCMA%20Final%20EYFS%20Response.pdf) provided to the Government during consultation for the revised Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage (http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/eyfs%20statutory%20framework%20march%202012.pdf). In this response the NCMA say that they would like to see the following - I wonder if those of you who are NCMA members agree?


The NCMA wants all childminders to be required to achieve a NVQ Level 3 qualification within five years of registration.
The NCMA wants all prospective childminders to be required to attend training and pass a test in delivery of the EYFS before being allowed to be childminders.
The NCMA wants all prospective childminders to be required to undertake mandatory safeguarding training (as well as first-aid training) before being allowed to be childminders.
The NCMA believes that all registered childminders should be required to attend annual refresher courses on safeguarding.
The NCMA supports the principle that all childminders are legally required to deliver the EYFS, even if they only provide wrap around care.
NCMA supports the requirement for providers to give parents a written summary of their child's development in the prime areas when their child is 24-36 months.
The NCMA wants childminders to be responsible for ensuring (so far as is reasonably practicable) that corporal punishment is not used on a child by any person who cares for them.

[Shar]

Apart from refreshing safeguarding and EYFS yearly, this is what most of us already registered do and are requested to do under the EYFS. The impact of these requirements will effect new pre reg childminders mostly.
I am happy to not support the NCMA any longer because I don't feel they are worth it.

[Bluebell]

hmm so when I registered I had to pass the level 3 ICP which included safeguarding and EYFS. Surely this is similar for most new childminders now? So this aspect is already in place.
I would like to be level 3 qualified - but who delivers the appropriate course and pays for it? How do we know which is the most appropriate course for us!? Annual safeguarding refresher is also fair enough - but again who delivers this and funds it? Us?

I'm not sure at all about delivering the EYFS if only providing wrap around care - I thought the revised EYFS was moving away from this expectation as its so unrealistic is child is at pre-school all day receiving it and then only at childminder for an hour or 2 in afternoon/evening which is probably focused on relax/sleep/eat!

I really can not see how childminders can be repsonsible for the care of children in other settings or by family members (re corporal punishment)- that seems slightly absurd and on what authority would we do anything about it apart from normal safeguarding routes anyway!?

[Bridey]

I think my opinion of what the NCMA wants is probably best kept to myself! :censored:

[rickysmiths]

I'm not sure where to post this, but here goes...

I have been looking at the NCMA response (http://www.*************/PDF/NCMA%20Final%20EYFS%20Response.pdf) provided to the Government during consultation for the revised Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage (http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/eyfs%20statutory%20framework%20march%202012.pdf). In this response the NCMA say that they would like to see the following - I wonder if those of you who are NCMA members agree?


The NCMA wants all childminders to be required to achieve a NVQ Level 3 qualification within five years of registration.
The NCMA wants all prospective childminders to be required to attend training and pass a test in delivery of the EYFS before being allowed to be childminders.
The NCMA wants all prospective childminders to be required to undertake mandatory safeguarding training (as well as first-aid training) before being allowed to be childminders.
The NCMA believes that all registered childminders should be required to attend annual refresher courses on safeguarding.
The NCMA supports the principle that all childminders are legally required to deliver the EYFS, even if they only provide wrap around care.
NCMA supports the requirement for providers to give parents a written summary of their child's development in the prime areas when their child is 24-36 months.
The NCMA wants childminders to be responsible for ensuring (so far as is reasonably practicable) that corporal punishment is not used on a child by any person who cares for them.





There have been a lot of cms register with no experience and more and more with no children of their own who seem to think they can replace a well paid job with their cm income instantly and it doesn't happen like that in my experience. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect some level of training and five is a long time to get the Level 3 completed. All good cms undergo regular training anyway to extend and refresh their knowledge. It is just a shame that Ofsted don't always give credit for it :rolleyes:

A lot have us have said for a long time that Safeguarding should be compulsory like First Aid and and an annual refresher for both of these would be a good idea as long as LAs can provide the training.

Well we all do EYFS and its not difficult to do it for wrap around care and can be fun if you involve the children as well. The 24-36mth summary is a pain, I think it should be done by the Health Visitors but to be honest we are all doing it by completing the LJs so its not that hard to do.

Corporal punishment goes without saying in our care and I guess if you are aware that it is happening at home or elsewhere in a child's life it may become a Child protection issue as would any other concerns we may have about a child.

I get the impression you are trying to provoke a discussion?

I can't see any problem with any of the above at all?

I have to say this seems a bit pointless as the new EYFS has been published.

[rickysmiths]

hmm so when I registered I had to pass the level 3 ICP which included safeguarding and EYFS. Surely this is similar for most new childminders now? So this aspect is already in place.
I would like to be level 3 qualified - but who delivers the appropriate course and pays for it? How do we know which is the most appropriate course for us!? Annual safeguarding refresher is also fair enough - but again who delivers this and funds it? Us?

This could be delivered by LAs and we would have to pay for it but a lot of LAs are charging now anyway. We pay between £10 and £90 for our training in Herts now.


I'm not sure at all about delivering the EYFS if only providing wrap around care - I thought the revised EYFS was moving away from this expectation as its so unrealistic is child is at pre-school all day receiving it and then only at childminder for an hour or 2 in afternoon/evening which is probably focused on relax/sleep/eat!

To be honest, yes new EYFS has said we don't have to do it but it wasn't too hard. I just had a scrapbook which I used to write like a diary and put photos in and samples of work. The children added to it as well and then I used the NCMA stickers to highlight the areas of learning. I will probably continue to do this with any before and after school children.

I really can not see how childminders can be repsonsible for the care of children in other settings or by family members (re corporal punishment)- that seems slightly absurd and on what authority would we do anything about it apart from normal safeguarding routes anyway!?


We can't unless we notice anything that may raise a concern.

[Rubybubbles]

There have been a lot of cms register with no experience and more and more with no children of their own who seem to think they can replace a well paid job with their cm income instantly and it doesn't happen like that in my experience. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect some level of training and five is a long time to get the Level 3 completed. All good cms undergo regular training anyway to extend and refresh their knowledge. It is just a shame that Ofsted don't always give credit for it :rolleyes:

A lot have us have said for a long time that Safeguarding should be compulsory like First Aid and and an annual refresher for both of these would be a good idea as long as LAs can provide the training.

Well we all do EYFS and its not difficult to do it for wrap around care and can be fun if you involve the children as well. The 24-36mth summary is a pain, I think it should be done by the Health Visitors but to be honest we are all doing it by completing the LJs so its not that hard to do.

Corporal punishment goes without saying in our care and I guess if you are aware that it is happening at home or elsewhere in a child's life it may become a Child protection issue as would any other concerns we may have about a child.

I get the impression you are trying to provoke a discussion?

I can't see any problem with any of the above at all?

I have to say this seems a bit pointless as the new EYFS has been published.


TBH I agree, I dont see a problem with any of the above. We follow most of it already.

I think it will stop people seeing childminding as an eays job:) I have dug my heels and worked hard for my NVQ3 and it got me a great job in day nursery as room leader, for once it was recoginsed what childminders do! (I have left as moving and childminding fits around my family better:thumbsup:)

[mushpea]

I dont have a problem with the above but I do have to say that I am no longer a member of the NCMA due to them being no help to me whatsoever, when ever I ring them with a querry it was always 'its your own buisness deal with it how you think', I am no longer a member and we now have the PLA in place but after a visit from one of them who did do my accreditation work e but had no clue to what the 6 areas of learning are or how many under 5's we can have i wont be joining them either.

[Bluebell]

To be honest, yes new EYFS has said we don't have to do it but it wasn't too hard. I just had a scrapbook which I used to write like a diary and put photos in and samples of work. The children added to it as well and then I used the NCMA stickers to highlight the areas of learning. I will probably continue to do this with any before and after school children.

I agree Rickysmiths- I think I sounded off before and didn't mean to - I too deliver EYFS for holiday care (I don't currently do after school care) and I believe that most aspects of the EYFS is naturally delivered in the way care is given to children anyway - relationships, emotional development, communication etc etc but to me there always seems to have been a pressure to have had the same level of EYFS given for this care as for more lengthy permanent care and to be able to demonstrate it and I think moving away from this pressure to report and record everything even when care given on small scale is a good thing. For example if I had a child come to me for an hour and during that time I give breakfast and do a school run before delivering child to nursery it does not leave a lot of time for the whole full range of the EYFS. - painting, crafts, numeracy etc etc. For the revised EYFS to recognise this is a good thing and yet NCMA seem to want to revert back to us bein expected to provideit - I'm just not sure on what scale they mean?

[MrAnchovy]

Thanks for your replies. A number of childminders that I know, and I suspect a substantial proportion of childminders as a whole, believe that one of the strengths of a childminding setting is precisely the lack of regimented, monitored, assessed and graded 'learning journeys' and the like. As the NCMA has decided to accept and even encourage an ever-increasing burden of external regulation and compliance for its members (in which it is probably unique as a representative body) it seems to me that these childminders have lost their voice.

Where is all this headed? Will childminders simply become under-resourced imitations of pre-schools? Where will parents who are unable to care for their children when they are not in (pre-)school find someone to provide a home-like environment so they do not spend virtually the whole of their waking hours in a school-like environment?

I know this is not what many parents who choose a childminder want, but I cannot believe it is what many childminders want either - except perhaps for those with vested interests in promoting an ever-increasing regulatory and representative 'professional' structure.

[mama2three]

Thanks for your replies. A number of childminders that I know, and I suspect a substantial proportion of childminders as a whole, believe that one of the strengths of a childminding setting is precisely the lack of regimented, monitored, assessed and graded 'learning journeys' and the like. As the NCMA has decided to accept and even encourage an ever-increasing burden of external regulation and compliance for its members (in which it is probably unique as a representative body) it seems to me that these childminders have lost their voice.

Where is all this headed? Will childminders simply become under-resourced imitations of pre-schools? Where will parents who are unable to care for their children when they are not in (pre-)school find someone to provide a home-like environment so they do not spend virtually the whole of their waking hours in a school-like environment?

I know this is not what many parents who choose a childminder want, but I cannot believe it is what many childminders want either - except perhaps for those with vested interests in promoting an ever-increasing regulatory and representative 'professional' structure.

MrA I see your concerns , but it is very acievable to provide a loving relaxed home environment whilst fully embracing eyfs and its requirements. We need to 'evidence' it in the same way as preschools perhaps but we certainly do not need to offer it in the same way.. Many of this sites great childminders have the kind of home environment that youre referring to..and still produce the learning journeys etc ...they are as much for the families as for ofsted , dont need to be on 'prescriptive' forms and documents etc..

[rickysmiths]

Thanks for your replies. A number of childminders that I know, and I suspect a substantial proportion of childminders as a whole, believe that one of the strengths of a childminding setting is precisely the lack of regimented, monitored, assessed and graded 'learning journeys' and the like. As the NCMA has decided to accept and even encourage an ever-increasing burden of external regulation and compliance for its members (in which it is probably unique as a representative body) it seems to me that these childminders have lost their voice.

Where is all this headed? Will childminders simply become under-resourced imitations of pre-schools? Where will parents who are unable to care for their children when they are not in (pre-)school find someone to provide a home-like environment so they do not spend virtually the whole of their waking hours in a school-like environment?

I know this is not what many parents who choose a childminder want, but I cannot believe it is what many childminders want either - except perhaps for those with vested interests in promoting an ever-increasing regulatory and representative 'professional' structure.

I wonder how many childminders homes you have visited? I don't believe for a min that you are expressing the views of the majority of childminders.

When I started minding 18 years ago I did it because to go back to work with two children of my own would have meant little disposable income. I had seen my SIL childmind successfully having had her children and come from a similar work background to myself. I actually started to register when I was on maternity leave and even in those days of apparent less regulation the process took nearly a year.

Obviously I had a number of years experience under my belt by the time EYFS was introduced but I was sceptical at first. However I soon realised that it was not asking me to do anything I hadn't been doing before. I have always done scrapbooks for my minded children as a record of their time with me and I used them to see what a child was achieving and what we could do next :rolleyes: So doing a Learning Journal was what I had always done before, I had always looked at next steps but not recorded it so now I do about once every half term which isn't such a big deal and I add stickers to indicate the areas of learning a child is covering, such hard work :rolleyes:

I have always planned and I do nothing different for EYFS, I have always had folders with information, templates etc., if anything it is easier now because of the internet. In fact computers generally have made life and information gathering a lot faster and when I started we didn't have them.

We have always been regulated and when I started we were inspected every year and in my area we were given a theme for our inspection which was much better than now when we are lucky if we have an inspection every 4 years. We have always had to be Police Checked and so have any adults living in the house, we have always done first aid and Child Protection training and other ongoing training.

Now we have to register as a food business which is frankly no big deal and in a lot of areas you don't even get an inspection. Mind you I know in Buckinghamshire they have had to register as a food business for years and years and have inspections and tough ones as well.

We have to register with ICO. Big deal a form to fill in and a fee to pay.

I don't see that we are anymore regulated or regimented or monitored than before. The records about the children and what they do are more comprehensive but they way I interact with the children and the things we do have not changed. I very much offer a home from home environment and would never ever want to aspire to become some sort of a nursery look alike. God help me I would hate that, I can't understand why any parent would ever want to leave their under 3yr old in such an awful institutionalised, regimented , full on environment.

I don't think NCMA are encouraging and ever regulated environment for us. They, as we, are increasingly concerned about the increasing number of poor childminders out there who seem to refuse to follow anything, don't attend regular training and don't ever come in contact with any other childminders or childcare professionals. The ones who charge very low fees and to who parents go and their children to not receive good care and do not thrive.

They way we do things means that at least all early years providers are doing basically the same. It also means that any problems should be highlighted earlier and with evidence it is easier for parents to access help quicker and to share evidence with other professionals. This must be good for the child. This is also the biggest difference from when I started as a cm 18yrs when we could be isolated and information was not passed on in they way it can be now because it was recorded in the same way.

Yes NCMA are promoting us as a Professional body and we are if we do our job well and we are or should be home based home from home care and I believe the majority of us are.

I don't see my job as a burden, indeed if I didn't enjoy it I would not still be here after 18 years. Any job comes with paperwork and mine hasn't increased that much since I stated and where it has has been for the good. Risk Assessments I always did now they are written down but once they were done they only require updating from time to time, Policies I always had anyway, Attendance Register I always had, Accident/incident/medication book I have always had, I choose not to do the SET as its not compulsory and I show I reflect on my practice in other ways, and of course there have always been the accounts.

Sorry about the long reply but the comment actually annoyed me.

[Bridey]

I don't think NCMA are encouraging and ever regulated environment for us. They as we, are increasingly concerned about the increasing number of poor childminders out there who seem to refuse to follow anything, don't attend regular training and don't ever come in contact with any other childminders or childcare professionals. The ones who charge very low fees and to who parents go and their children to not receive good care and do not thrive.


I found this particular comment very interesting.

So you are saying that unless a child attends a professional childcare setting that they do not receive good care or thrive. Because that statement would include my own child and every other child who stays at home with their untrained and unprofessional parents.

[watgem]

I have to say I am a childminder who charges low fees, but I am qualified to level 5, and have a Good Ofsted report, go to all the relevant training and mix with other childminders.

[MrAnchovy]

I have to say I am a childminder who charges low fees, but I am qualified to level 5, and have a Good Ofsted report, go to all the relevant training and mix with other childminders.

I am glad to hear that; I would hate to think that the NCMA wants to build a barrier of regulation and jargon around the profession in order to justify higher fees for childminders.