Changing to Steiner - Buttefly I'm interested in what you're doing - tell me more!

[jumpinjen]

Hi Butterfly - just noticed your thread about changing to a Steiner approach - I'd love to hear more - i've heard that many steiner schools and nurseries opted out of the EYFS - are you going to do that too?

Jen x

[butterfly]

Hi Butterfly - just noticed your thread about changing to a Steiner approach - I'd love to hear more - i've heard that many steiner schools and nurseries opted out of the EYFS - are you going to do that too?

Jen x

Hiya! Since completing my MEd I've moved on to my PhD and I'm looking at the consumer culture where kids have so many plastic, bright, noisy toys but actually appreciate very little and don't actually play properly.

I'm looking at taking away all commercially produced toys and replacing my entire setting with open ended natural resources.

[waterwaybabies]

on that train already.x
much better for the kids i work with i hope.x

[jumpinjen]

Ooh great, are you making your setting research project then? You should blog about it as it happens!! i thought that steiner settings do have man-made resources like blocks and trucks and hand sewn dolls, fabrics etc as well as pinecones, pebbles, mud etc etc. Are you going to follow the Steiner rythmns of baking/painting on a certain day too?

Jen x

[leeloo1]

I'm not that clued up on Steiner philosophy, but from what I've heard

- children aren't allowed to read (or encouraged to have books) or write before they're 7, when their adult teeth come in

- children aren't allowed black crayons

- there's some religious undertones to it all

Are you doing all that kind of thing too, because the open-ended, natural resources bit sounds lovely - the rest of it, a bit less so.

[butterfly]

I'm not going completely Steiner as there are bits that don't fit well with my personal values. My idea is to clear all the 'toys' (everything which was made for a particular use) that includes dolls, cars, duplo etc etc. I will still have books but everything else will be replaced with open-ended materials inside and out.

I'm going to do a pilot study next term and then go from there! So excited!

[watgem]

please cold yo keep us posted? I'm really interested in the Steiner approachxxx

[jumpinjen]

I'm not going completely Steiner as there are bits that don't fit well with my personal values. My idea is to clear all the 'toys' (everything which was made for a particular use) that includes dolls, cars, duplo etc etc. I will still have books but everything else will be replaced with open-ended materials inside and out.

I'm going to do a pilot study next term and then go from there! So excited!

Steiner settings do have dolls but they have a very bland facial expression, with minimalistic features so that the child isn't prompted to say the baby is happy etc. They are pricey though.

An alternative is wooden turned dolls such as those sold by crafty crocodiles, simple wooden turned figures plain wood to be used - I'm really interested too, so do keep us posted - I'd love to do some guest blogging with you on my blog if you'd be interested in a platform for your trial without having to run a blog for yourself?

jen x

[Bridey]

I wasn't aware that opting out of the EYFS was an option ... for anyone!

[jumpinjen]

I wasn't aware that opting out of the EYFS was an option ... for anyone!

It apparently is if you can prove that the EYFS is at odds with the ethos of your setting - I think that it is only the development matters that is opt out - the welfare requirements aren't optional. You have to get all the parents of children at your setting to agree they don't wish for the EYFS to be used and then put together a proposal type document and it is considered on a case by case basis - I don't know that much about it, I just remembered reading about some Steiner nurseries that had opted out at the beginning when it was first introduced - it isn't that you can opt out just cos you don't like it and don't want to do it, but that you opt out because what you already have in place is providing for the needs of the children in your setting.

Jen x

[butterfly]

Steiner settings do have dolls but they have a very bland facial expression, with minimalistic features so that the child isn't prompted to say the baby is happy etc. They are pricey though.

An alternative is wooden turned dolls such as those sold by crafty crocodiles, simple wooden turned figures plain wood to be used - I'm really interested too, so do keep us posted - I'd love to do some guest blogging with you on my blog if you'd be interested in a platform for your trial without having to run a blog for yourself?

jen x

Thanks Jen that sounds really interesting! My website has a optional bog feature so I might have to look into it after speaking to my supervising tutors about the ethics etc. I will have to keep a research diary so I wonder if a blog would be the most useful way?

With regards to dolls - I'm in that quandary at the moment - I feel some sort of small world figures would be good but I'd want something very open-ended. I'll have a look at Crafty Crocodiles - thanks for the tip!

[jumpinjen]

Here is the CC link - http://www.craftycrocodiles.co.uk/search/wooden-people, I think a basket of these would be great as small world!

Hopefully ethics would be OK as long as you didn't identify the children etc - I show my own children on my blog but not mindees - I think it would be a great way to keep a log/diary of it!

Jen x

[Twinkles]

Can anyone recommend a book or two on the Steiner theory please. It sounds interesting and I would like to find out a bit more. Thanks.

[KarenM]

I brought loads of those wooden dolls about a year ago from Etsy, before they were readily available over here. We have them as fairy tale characters, fairies, families etc. Very good for developing small world.

[jumpinjen]

Can anyone recommend a book or two on the Steiner theory please. It sounds interesting and I would like to find out a bit more. Thanks.

I read this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Rainb...008414&sr=1-11 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0964783231/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=childminding-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0964783231)
I've read another similar but I can't remember it now - I'll look and come back to you!

jen x

[flowerpots]

Im going to follow this thread with interest, I dont know alot about the Steiner approach but would love to find out more, thanks for the book recommendation jen. :D

[jumpinjen]

This is actually the better book that I preferred on Steiner info:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heaven-Earth...4046676&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0880105666/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=childminding-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0880105666)

Jen x

[butterfly]

Thanks for the book suggestions Jen. I'm just in the middle of building a new website and have added a blog to it so as soon as Easter is out the way I'll get the go ahead from my supervising tutors to start the blog!

[2kidsunder5]

This sounds a bit like something that I am doing, except it's called communication friendly spaces. Get rid of all bright colours, use earth and calming colours within the setting, use as many natural resources as possible, no noise i.e. radio or tv. it comes from my ECAT training.

I have hung a voile from the ceiling, used cosy plain cushions with a variety of materials and the kids love to go inside and look at books or play with the treasure baskets, it's so much better than having a lounge full of bright coloured duplo blocks and noisy toys :laughing:

Probably nothing like what you are doing, just thought I would share :o

[butterfly]

This sounds a bit like something that I am doing, except it's called communication friendly spaces. Get rid of all bright colours, use earth and calming colours within the setting, use as many natural resources as possible, no noise i.e. radio or tv. it comes from my ECAT training.

I have hung a voile from the ceiling, used cosy plain cushions with a variety of materials and the kids love to go inside and look at books or play with the treasure baskets, it's so much better than having a lounge full of bright coloured duplo blocks and noisy toys :laughing:

Probably nothing like what you are doing, just thought I would share :o

Sounds great! I've looked into communication friendly spaces but not for a while - i should have another look. Do you know of any good books explaining the theories?

[jumpinjen]

Thanks for the book suggestions Jen. I'm just in the middle of building a new website and have added a blog to it so as soon as Easter is out the way I'll get the go ahead from my supervising tutors to start the blog!
can't wait to see!

Jen x

[2kidsunder5]

Try this link Butterfly.

It was one of her training courses I went on but to be honest my ECAT training covered most of what she covered :)

http://www.elizabethjarmantraining.co.uk/

[Jiorjiina]

I've only recently heard of Communication Friendly Spaces, but any training in our area is Invitation Only, and for schools, not early years settings. :(

The company that came up with the concept has quite an informative website though (http://www.elizabethjarmantraining.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=6), and there is a video from the same company about it all on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDwPpq64Ly8).

[2kidsunder5]

I've only recently heard of Communication Friendly Spaces, but any training in our area is Invitation Only, and for schools, not early years settings. :(

The company that came up with the concept has quite an informative website though (http://www.elizabethjarmantraining.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=6), and there is a video from the same company about it all on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDwPpq64Ly8).

It's similar where I live but Network Childminders where invited to attend.

[Donkey]

the thing is.....


why should a space be 'communication friendly'

surely all spaces should be friendly for communication??

sorry just throwing an alternative view point in the air!


cm's are very communication friendly in their spaces!

[Jiorjiina]

I totally agree. I don't think it's about having specific spaces for communication, but having less stuff cluttering up all your space, and distracting children from interacting and communicating.

[sweets]

This sounds a bit like something that I am doing, except it's called communication friendly spaces. Get rid of all bright colours, use earth and calming colours within the setting, use as many natural resources as possible, no noise i.e. radio or tv. it comes from my ECAT training.

I have hung a voile from the ceiling, used cosy plain cushions with a variety of materials and the kids love to go inside and look at books or play with the treasure baskets, it's so much better than having a lounge full of bright coloured duplo blocks and noisy toys :laughing:

Probably nothing like what you are doing, just thought I would share :o

whats wrong with bright colours or plastic toys?

im all for using natural resourses, but surely there should be a balance. In this modern world plastic is available and there are some fab toys made from it, such as duplo. my mindees love it, and make some brilliant things and use thier imagination with it.

not being critical at all , just interested.

[silvermist]

whats wrong with bright colours or plastic toys?

im all for using natural resourses, but surely there should be a balance. In this modern world plastic is available and there are some fab toys made from it, such as duplo. my mindees love it, and make some brilliant things and use thier imagination with it.

not being critical at all , just interested.

Hi. Ive been watching this thread all day. I am wondering the same thing really. I think there are some fab plastic toys available and wonder where this might end up. Will we all be expected to go with the natural approach one day? What do Ofsted think of this? Not a critisism Im just curious!

[jumpinjen]

It's not a criticism of plastic, Waldorf/Steiner is an approach to early childhood that is very different from mainstream approaches. It puts an emphasis on nature and rhythms - daily (same things done at same time, gentle lead-ins to things like mealtimes and bedtimes), weekly (baking Monday, painting Tues, gardening wed etc), and seasonal. Children are very involved in routines, making and serving food, helping to mend toys etc. Toys and resources are simple, made from natural materials (wood, cotton, wool, found objects), dyed and painted with natural paints. There is an emphasis also on creativity, hence the lack of toys that suggest a play direction. It isn't made out to be any better than other methods or ideas (Reggio Emilia, Montessori, Mainstream etc) but it does suit some children and families more than other settings as it fits in with their family ethos/ideals or the children's personalities. Waldorf/Steiner also doesn't push introduce formal learning until seven years old (like many Scandinavian countries). I believe that if the practitioner(s) is/are passionate about what they do and do it well then this approach provides a wonderful environment just as does any environment with a passionate and committed adult guiding the children! Most Waldorf/Steiner settings are sessional nurseries and therefore the focus on a specific type of resources might work better than if a full daycare setting for potentially 12 hours a day. I personally pinch the best bits from many pedagogies but I am very interested in the idea of 'going Waldorf' and am looking forwards to seeing the progress of butterflies adventures and wouldn't like to see this thread swerved onto a plastic versus wooden debate - can we start a new one for that and I will wade into that one too??!!

Jen x

[silvermist]

Hi Jen, please dont think im against anything that has come up in this thread. I wouldnt want to upset anyone. I had not heard of this approach and personally have no preference to plastic or wooden. Youre last post was very interesting and I will certainly look out for more research into it. :)

[mushpea]

I have been introduicing more and more natural resources but have kept my plastic bright toys and the children seem to prefer to play with the natural resources, eg in my garden we have the usual ride on toys, plastic sand pit toys etc but we also have tubs of wooden blocks which the children use to make castles, towers, chalk on, wrap in blankets for birthday presents infact they are used for all sorts, we have a tub of 'loose parts' such as old pram wheels, small hoops, guttering pipes and an old flexi hoover pipe, the children love the hover pipe, its the most played with thing in the garden, they roll balls and cars down it, sand and water go down it, they talk to each other through it, they hold an end each and pull each other along on the cars, they swing it around at floor leval and jump over it and loads more.
I think part of it is because its differnt to the normal things they are allowed to play with but what ever the reason the imaginiation just flows and its great to watch, they also seemt argue less when this sort of stuff it out

[2kidsunder5]

It's a proven fact that bright colours can over stimulate children. If you notice all soft play i.e. whacky etc are full of bright colours, this is why kids race around. Communication friendly spaces is all about getting children to talk to each other and us. If you over stimulate children, for example have loads of toys readily available they will got from one to the next then the next and not actually play with any of them how they should be played with.

I have started to put a blaket over my toy corner and just get a few items out, it really does work. A quiet corner with cushions and one or two books is better than 10 books. I am all for giving childen choices but some times you can overwhelm them with loads of resources.

I have a lovely large wooden dolls house with loads of furniture and little people, not one of my little ones played with it they just transported all the things inside it around my setting. I have since removed all the furniture and dolls and now put just a few items in a basket next to it, they play with now :clapping:

I guess what I am trying to say is less is more :)

[jumpinjen]

Hi Jen, please dont think im against anything that has come up in this thread. I wouldnt want to upset anyone. I had not heard of this approach and personally have no preference to plastic or wooden. Youre last post was very interesting and I will certainly look out for more research into it. :)

I know, don't worry! the books were a very nice read if you can find them or like to buy books like me!! The idea behind rhythms and routines being good is that, along with clear boundaries they make children feel secure and safe, and secure children usually thrive. This includes things like: toys having a set place to be stored and always being where the child knows they are when they want to find them, adults reacting in a predictable manner to them, the days flowing in a routine (not rigid, but predictable) way, doing similar things regularly etc - the theory goes that this helps children to build an inner scaffold within which they build their understanding of the world. All new experiences and skills gained are woven into this scaffold to help them reach their potential - xxx



Jen x

[silvermist]

I know, don't worry! the books were a very nice read if you can find them or like to buy books like me!! The idea behind rhythms and routines being good is that, along with clear boundaries they make children feel secure and safe, and secure children usually thrive. This includes things like: toys having a set place to be stored and always being where the child knows they are when they want to find them, adults reacting in a predictable manner to them, the days flowing in a routine (not rigid, but predictable) way, doing similar things regularly etc - the theory goes that this helps children to build an inner scaffold within which they build their understanding of the world. All new experiences and skills gained are woven into this scaffold to help them reach their potential - xxx



Jen x

Hey, maybe Im doing it a bit already! All my toys are are kept in the same place, labelled etc and I do like a certain bit of routine. Thought it was my OCD! :laughing:I will look into it Jen. x

[jumpinjen]

Hey, maybe Im doing it a bit already! All my toys are are kept in the same place, labelled etc and I do like a certain bit of routine. Thought it was my OCD! :laughing:I will look into it Jen. x

Nothin wrong with a little OCD LOL!!

[silvermist]

Nothin wrong with a little OCD LOL!!

lol, my dh thinks Im mad as I cant rest if somethings been moved out of its normal 'place'! My DO said to me " you do know your playroom will not look this lovely once your lo's start dont you" and why not was my reply. :laughing::laughing:

[butterfly]

I'm not particularly against plastic per se. For me it's not about plastic v wooden, it's about allowing children to make choices. For me that means allowing them to make REAL choices. For example I would rather instead of them having a garage (plastic or wooden!) which suggests to them the road in which they have to take ie cars going up and down, predictable story lines etc, I would offer them open-ended resources which allows the child to choose what they are or what they're going to do with them.

This has been a journey for me over the last 3 years. At first I thought it was a plastic v wooden arguement but i've recently realised that it isn't. I did swap some of my plastic toys for wooden eg garage, stacking rings, building blocks etc but it hasnt made any difference to the play i'm seeing. The children still get everything out, play repetitively over months doing the same things with the same toys.

I also feel very much that children are being brought up to be 'consumers'. They have loads of toys, more than they need, they're relatively cheap so they have them bought for them all year round, all items are constantly being up=dated and we change things at the drop of a hat (phones, pcs, cars) not because they're worn out but just because there is a newer version. Children have little respect for toys and gadgets (many times i've heard children say things like well it doesnt matter daddy will buy me a new one, or it still works but i want a 3d ds.

I'd like to see what happens when children have general everyday things to play with, that dont have battteries, things that can be recycled/upcycled - for them to learn that we dont have to throw things away but we can use them for different uses.

I dont know what will happen but it's going to be a journey that myself and the children take. it's exciting! the children wont be damaged (3 days max is the time children spend here and they have thousands of toys at home!)

i hope you guys will continue to follow our journey and continue to ask questions and query what's happening.

SOrry to have rambled! It's my whole life at the moment!

[Maza]

I am also very interested in different pedagogies and I think jumpinjen made a very important point - any teaching method where there is pure passion behind it will be great for children. I often have friends ask me about different approaches and I always say that any method/philosophy is only as good as the practitioner themselves. It's good to pinch bits from every method - I am a magpie!

I go to a Steiner playgroup about once a month. It's a refreshing change but it's not perfect. (Whatever perfect is!) I love all the playgroups I attend and feel that they all offer something wonderful. They all have their own rhythms, as do most of us as childminders.

I do agree that 'less is more' when it comes to the nature/amount of toys, but I don't think I'm ready to get rid of all my plastic battery operated toys just yet!

[silvermist]

The more I hear you and Jen talking the more interested Ive become. I will definately be following your new venture with interest. All the best. x:thumbsup:

[butterfly]

On a slightly different point - what shall I call my new blog? It will be a website for me to blog about my current research but I may also want to put on my previous research? Obviously I can give you guys the address to follow me but it would be good if it was something other childminders/practitioners may come across when searching the web

[jumpinjen]

How about 'Wondering about Waldorf'? I'll think on it today and come back if I think of any more!!!!

jen x

[Maza]

That's a great name Jumpinjen!!