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View Full Version : Ofsted chief warns of change for childminder regulations: Nursery World article



Mouse
02-03-2012, 02:13 PM
How many of you have had the email through with this is in :eek:

Does this sound like the words of someone who hasn't got a clue what childminding is about or how good we are?

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/bulletin/NurseryWorldUpdate/article/1120315/?DCMP=EMC-CONNurseryWorldUpdate

WibbleWobble
02-03-2012, 02:24 PM
Sir Michael, (pictured), said, ‘In childminding, the registration process is pretty expensive.We spend a lot of money on it. But we need to thinkabout the future and how we inspect childminding institutions. I don’t think we can carry on doing it as we have been doing. Every time a youngster goes into a childminding setting….two children…that’s unsustainable.


What on earth is he on about? i dont understand what this means....am i stupid?

MAWI
02-03-2012, 02:40 PM
I've just read it too and my impression of it is that he thinks childminders are just delivering care and support And not educating. Clearly this bloke has not got a clue of the job we actually do. When he mentions the outcomes for Children are 'stark' when compared, I get the impression he is talking about childminders...that's just my thoughts.
I actually find it quite insulting. I know that in my local area, there are no Outstanding nurseries and preschool doesn't go the extra mile, Staff I talk to are only there becAuse it fits in with wchool hours and even the leader just eants to get a GOOD to keep ofsted happy, whereas I seem to constantly putting children first, going above and beyond my expected duties, counselling families etc... Oh and th elist goes on. I'm sure all you lovely ladies are the same. So it really peeves me when I read something like this about how we're simply good for 'care' I.e changing nappies, feeding and ensuring their safety.

I coulda go on but I wont:angry:

AliceK
02-03-2012, 02:40 PM
:angry: just sounds like yet another person who has no idea of what we actually do and what we deliver. Everything we as childminders do we do with the EYFS in mind. Lets just see who else wants to undermine us and make us out to be lazy people sitting on our bums babysitting all day :censored: :censored:
That's made me really cross now :angry:

xxxxx

Karaza
02-03-2012, 02:54 PM
Maybe Sir Michael Wilshaw should come and spend a week with me and see what we do all day then let's ask his opinion again :laughing: I bet he would soon change his opinion. When I heard he was fronting Ofsted next I was in a meeting with some teachers, ofsted workers etc and he was not very popular he headed up the academies before this so has very little experience of early years. People like this make me :angry:

rickysmiths
02-03-2012, 03:14 PM
It was the word 'Institution'. :angry: I am not an institution that is the whole point.

I don't know what people like this think that children should be doing at 0-5 but we are the laughing stock of Europe the way we institutionalize our children and 'teach' them at such a young age. Most European children don't go to school until they are 6 or 7.

Is it a wonder we have so many teenage problems and they switch off so early. When will these people learn?

Carol M
02-03-2012, 03:17 PM
Well I take that he thinks very little of childminders . Ignorant :censored:
As I have just posted on another thread, I am slowly losing the will to childmind. I now expect increased bashing from all parties who will jump on this stupid mans comments, what hope have we got in the future within this governments plans for Early Years education.
I am seething :angry:
Carol xx

MAWI
02-03-2012, 03:49 PM
I agree with you Carol M. I feel that no matter how much I do, (studying 15 hours a week, keeping up to date etc in my spare time,: All with a view to improve outcomes for children) we are still held in such low regard.

Seriously thinking of a career change in the near future

Jiorjiina
02-03-2012, 03:53 PM
It's no wonder really that the inspections are all over the place when this is the attitude of the chief inspector.

HSMM
02-03-2012, 04:17 PM
He's going to set Childminders back to being seen as babysitters and not professionals at all!:angry:

I have also emailed NCMA about it. Unbelievable!

jellybean cc
02-03-2012, 04:22 PM
Maybe we need to get someone on all our behaves to write a report that we could all put our names to telling him exactly what we do and why we do it, the hours we work, our part in the EYFS, the extra hours of training ect, ect , ect and invite him to spend a day with one of us.

Bluebell
02-03-2012, 04:31 PM
It was the word 'Institution'. :angry: I am not an institution that is the whole point.

I don't know what people like this think that children should be doing at 0-5 but we are the laughing stock of Europe the way we institutionalize our children and 'teach' them at such a young age. Most European children don't go to school until they are 6 or 7.

Is it a wonder we have so many teenage problems and they switch off so early. When will these people learn?

I could not agree with you more and have said this many times myself. Luckily my son goes to a school where many of the teachers have spent time in Europe and while they admit children are expected to hit certain levels at certain ages they have an excellent nurturing attitude toward teaching. They would rather support the individual child than be the best at the league tables. They are completely supportive and I am so happy that my son goes to this school and its not all academic advantage shoved down his neck from 4!
While we all deliver the EYFS we can offer so much more in terms of support, care, individual growth etc etc which are so much more important in developing a strong confident child! He says care and support as if that is the worse thing we could provide but we have the advantage that we offer this on top of everything else and can be far better at it because of the unique situation of the environment in which we welcome children in. sorry not putting this very well but it just seems like some people have a very strong view of childminders and not in a good way!

pinky33
02-03-2012, 04:38 PM
Maybe it's time they let us go completely!
After all the most important thing is happy well cared for kids it's not about the eyfs and ticking boxes.
I for one think life would be much happier without ofsted and their constant damands of us.

AliceK
02-03-2012, 04:46 PM
Well I take that he thinks very little of childminders . Ignorant :censored:
As I have just posted on another thread, I am slowly losing the will to childmind. I now expect increased bashing from all parties who will jump on this stupid mans comments, what hope have we got in the future within this governments plans for Early Years education.
I am seething :angry:
Carol xx

Exactly what I have been thinking over the past few days with all the negativity towards us :mad:. I'm seriously considering going back to nannying.

xxx

onceinabluemoon
02-03-2012, 04:48 PM
Well, what an insult.

I don't know what to think, but it feels like they've put us up there on a level playing field and are now saying we can't be there because they messed up finances and can't afford us to be...

PixiePetal
02-03-2012, 04:56 PM
I wish the right hand knew what the left hand was doing:angry:. Sounds like he would want us to go back to the old ways, pre EYFS, and concentrate on care not education as we don't have a clue and can't deliver it :angry:

Does he really know what we do? Liz Bayram is sticking up for us :thumbsup:


Actually I liked the old days :) :o I am with pinky33 :thumbsup: bog off and let me do my job! Oh and I am not an institution :angry: I have a home which I share :)

funemnx
02-03-2012, 05:17 PM
When Social Services inspected us, we had regular contact with the same person who inspected us. She came and spent a morning with us, watching the children and talking to us. Not something that happens with Ofsted! :angry:

nell57
02-03-2012, 05:33 PM
Sir Michael, (pictured), said, ‘In childminding, the registration process is pretty expensive.We spend a lot of money on it. But we need to thinkabout the future and how we inspect childminding institutions. I don’t think we can carry on doing it as we have been doing. Every time a youngster goes into a childminding setting….two children…that’s unsustainable.


What on earth is he on about? i dont understand what this means....am i stupid?

how I'm reading it, is that he saying its too expensive (for ofsted) to go into a 'small' childminding setting with few children attending, compared to a larger 'nursery' setting with 50-100 children. Its probably me being thick now :laughing:

cant help feeling that its a massive step back for chilldminders, after fighting for so long to be recognised along side nurseries and pre-schools and for us all singing from the same song sheet:(

watgem
02-03-2012, 06:10 PM
agree with all of the above especially Carol M and Jellybean, i would definitely sign something, what ever happened to the importance of childrens secure attachments and emotional and physical well being needing to be high before they can even think of learning:mad:

WibbleWobble
02-03-2012, 06:27 PM
how I'm reading it, is that he saying its too expensive (for ofsted) to go into a 'small' childminding setting with few children attending, compared to a larger 'nursery' setting with 50-100 children. Its probably me being thick now :laughing:

cant help feeling that its a massive step back for chilldminders, after fighting for so long to be recognised along side nurseries and pre-schools and for us all singing from the same song sheet:(

right...i get it now....it was very badly written though.

and a load of complete :censored: too!!!!!

catminder
02-03-2012, 06:42 PM
Seems to me the article is about 'cost effectiveness' ie. it costs the same amount of money to register and inspect a nursery with 60 children as it does a childminder with 6 children. Therefore, to someone who does not appreciate the valuable work us childminders do, the logical conclusion is to favour the larger nurseries.
I personally didn't feel he understood the role of childminders.

rickysmiths
02-03-2012, 06:54 PM
How many of you have had the email through with this is in :eek:

Does this sound like the words of someone who hasn't got a clue what childminding is about or how good we are?

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/bulletin/NurseryWorldUpdate/article/1120315/?DCMP=EMC-CONNurseryWorldUpdate


Here is another article:

http://www.cypnow.co.uk/Childcare_and_Early_Years/article/1120166/Childminders-demand-meeting-Ofsted-chief-EYFS-remarks/

AgentTink
02-03-2012, 07:51 PM
His words are direct from the OFsted annual report 2011. Childminders account for 60% of the early years workforce, so yes we do most probably take up a lot of the OFsted inspection budget.

What really gets my goat is that when they talk about gaps they are referring to the fact that 26% of childminders got satisfactory while only 18% of nursery got satisfactory. It is this 9 percentage points which makes then think the gap is too big. However I bet no one has told him that most of his inspectors come out to new childminders for their first inspection and happily state that because we have done the job less than 6 months that we can't get more than a satisfactory.

Since the annual report was for a single year aug 10 until aug 11 I would love to find out of the 11,875 childminders inspected how many we're brand new? I would then love to know out of the 7,407 nurserys inspected how many of them were brand new. I bet there will be a stark contrast between the 2 figures. As all new early settings have to be inspected within 6 months I would bet that there was far more inspections completed on brand new childminders compared to new nurseries.

chez
02-03-2012, 08:07 PM
:eek: When the man at the top doesn't believe in us what chance do we have!

Heartbreaking after all the work that many minders have done trying to get people to understand that we are as good as any nursery as an option for childcare and early education Ofsted have just started to undo that.

We are as good as them! many of us are even better then local nurserys and therefore we need to hold our heads up and continue to show that we are the best choice for many early years children.

buildingblocks
02-03-2012, 08:20 PM
:eek: When the man at the top doesn't believe in us what chance do we have!

SO TRUE

Apologies for shouting

I am so upset by this mans comments and he has probably set childminding back years.

I feel am a fairly intelligent person and I actually read the comments "Every time a youngster goes into a childminding setting.. 2 children.. we have to inspect. That's unsustainable."

as meaning that the inspector has to inspect every time a child enters a setting we have to inspect which obviously isn't the case as especially as some local childminders haven't even been inspected under the EYFS.

EmmaReed84
02-03-2012, 08:20 PM
Well I take that he thinks very little of childminders . Ignorant :censored:
As I have just posted on another thread, I am slowly losing the will to childmind. I now expect increased bashing from all parties who will jump on this stupid mans comments, what hope have we got in the future within this governments plans for Early Years education.
I am seething :angry:
Carol xx

I have not read all the replies yet, but came to yours and actually I sat a wrote something like this in reply but didn't post it. I am so sad becuase I love minding so much and this make me not want to do it anymore and I have only been minding since Aug.

I come from a sales and managment backgroud and 2 posts have just opened up at my husbands company for sales people. DH said to his boss and director os sales "You should have tapped my wife up a year ago, she would have been excellent" his boss said to tell me and ask me if I wanted to apply as he knows my backgroud from DH and said he would consider me...

I am not seriously reconsidering my career, spending the rest of my career justiying myself is not for me! :(

Winnie
02-03-2012, 08:47 PM
SO TRUE

Apologies for shouting

I am so upset by this mans comments and he has probably set childminding back years.

I feel am a fairly intelligent person and I actually read the comments "Every time a youngster goes into a childminding setting.. 2 children.. we have to inspect. That's unsustainable."

as meaning that the inspector has to inspect every time a child enters a setting we have to inspect which obviously isn't the case as especially as some local childminders haven't even been inspected under the EYFS.

I'm wondering if his comment here refers to new childminders having a pre-reg 'inspection' followed by a 'proper' inspection within (is it?) 6 mths of registering (& usually have children by then)? With the introduction of the new requirement that training & checks should be undertaken Before Ofsted will register a childminder then surely this burden on Ofsted's finances will be removed, they will only need to inspect once.

blue bear
02-03-2012, 09:01 PM
How sad, mass production is cheaper so he thinks this is the best option for our children? For a long time I've been saying the guys at the top want rid if us this just proves it.

rickysmiths
02-03-2012, 10:36 PM
Just to make you all feel better he is making similar comments about Teachers. He is generally upsetting everyone, not just cms.

catminder
02-03-2012, 10:49 PM
Just to make you all feel better he is making similar comments about Teachers. He is generally upsetting everyone, not just cms.

:laughing:

DCS
02-03-2012, 11:31 PM
This week has been a PR disaster for childminding professionals. We were bashed on Panorama, The Wright Stuff and now by Chief Insp.SMW.

As SMW expresses doubt in us, why should any other user groups take us seriously? Thanks SMW for setting childminders back twenty years :angry:

All we childminders know that our job today is not what it was some twenty years ago. I believe the lack of positive /balanced/ insightful profile of childminders in the media lies firmly on the doorstep of the NCMA. :angry:

Why is it that our sector is always portrayed in a biased light? Yet the sorry “our” NCMA remain silent. We childminders are doing our bit on an individual basis, the results of which are measured in increased grade attainment of Good and above on inspection, under the EYFS in its current format. The NCMA really need to follow the National Day Care Trust’s blueprint, recruit some dominant eloquent personalities who can really raise our profile.

SMW says;

'My view is that we should really look at the future of how we inspect early years, and particularly childminders, to make sure that the very large numbers of children in childminding settings are given a good delivery.’

This implies that Childminders are failing the children in its care; however the inspection statistics do not reflect this. Having said that, how is this really measured? In the past, I’ve had children come to me from a nursery setting I get permission from the parents to request information of the children’s progress, but I’m met with a brick wall. When children leave my setting, the schools they go on to are not interested. So much for working in partnership :rolleyes:

Then says;

‘I think the issue is for childminders it becomes childminding, care and support, rather than subscribing to the EYFS education goals.’

I would like to know the empirical source of this statement. This comes after a time when OFTED outsourced is inspection role. Perhaps Tribal under tendered their contract and want to relinquish its responsibilities earlier than planned? Is it that schools have reported that children who enter reception from a childminding setting have not attained specific outcomes for their age? Again, where was the NCMA in all this?

Considering its been proven that a home based environment is bet for the under 5’s, Imagine if the NCMA wielded the kind of influence mumsnet has. There would be NO doubt as to what role, scope and value of a childminder is.

buildingblocks
02-03-2012, 11:36 PM
Just to make you all feel better he is making similar comments about Teachers. He is generally upsetting everyone, not just cms.

The difference is thought that it won't bring down (sorry can't think of the word I want to use) the reputation of teachers like it will affect us (really hoping it doesn't)

crazyXstitcher
03-03-2012, 12:18 AM
Imagine if the NCMA wielded the kind of influence mumsnet has. There would be NO doubt as to what role, scope and value of a childminder is.

They SHOULD have that influence. We pay our fees for that influence. Maybe we should take over Mumsnet (free site) and get them on side :o

green puppy
03-03-2012, 09:50 AM
What was said about us on the Wright stuff?

Katiekoo
03-03-2012, 10:26 AM
Well, what an insult.

I don't know what to think, but it feels like they've put us up there on a level playing field and are now saying we can't be there because they messed up finances and can't afford us to be...

I agree - it seems that actually he's only interested in Childminders because of the financial issues of registering us. Is it really so expensive to register us?

DCS
03-03-2012, 10:28 AM
What was said about us on the Wright stuff?


The generalisation that Childminders in the south (ie London) are far too expensive and charge £10 per hour.:rolleyes:

Childminders in general are too expensive.

They lot's of phone call's from the parent perspective but only one call from a CM up north. What a lovely balanced view :rolleyes:

Another missed opportunity by the NCMA.

ninagee
03-03-2012, 10:55 AM
This is the link to the actual Houses of Parliament Education Meeting on ParliamentLiveTV.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=10373

Go to the the timeline of 1:06:00 to listen to the discussion.

Nina

DCS
03-03-2012, 11:11 AM
removed, wrong thread.

mindingmummy08
03-03-2012, 01:02 PM
It read to me as though he was implying childminders are treated by ofsted the same as nurseries etc but we are not giving them same level of care and therefore are a waste of their funds, saying things like "My view is that we should really look at the future of how we inspect early years, and particularly childminders, to make sure that the very large numbers of children in childminding settings are given a good delivery."

Honestly if they don't want to give us the same level and respect as nurseries etc and if we're not going to be given credit for everything we do in the media then why don't they just let us give care instead of enforcing the EYFS and then its up to parents if they want care or learning and therefore wether they choose a childminder or nursery.

I'm so angry this week at the way childminders have been made out to be inadequate and overpriced when it is the complete opposite.

TooEarlyForGin?
03-03-2012, 01:27 PM
How sad, mass production is cheaper so he thinks this is the best option for our children? For a long time I've been saying the guys at the top want rid if us this just proves it.

As well as agreeing with MANY other comments, I too hold this belief, I really feel they don't like the fact they can't "control" us as much as other larger establishments.

As someone else has also commented, I watched a programme about Early Years in the scandinavian countries, and they are actually making their nursuries look like homes, with homely kitchens which children can freely work in, sofa's, smaller homely rooms, normal furniture, table lamps and they understand that young children will thrive in a more "home from home" environment. There is no pressure to have to formally "learn" it was beautiful, just like the early years should be. Many (not all, I hasten to add) nursery's are not a natural place to raise a small child.

I actually thought that the review of the EYFS was pushing more towards what we do already, have a more rounded "holistic" ethos for children in a more natural environment.

Another stupid bureaucrat trying to make his mark.

Tealady
03-03-2012, 01:31 PM
This is the link to the actual Houses of Parliament Education Meeting on ParliamentLiveTV.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=10373

Go to the the timeline of 1:06:00 to listen to the discussion.

Nina

I caught some of this late last night on BBC Parliament, but missed the bit this thread was about, so thanks for that. However the bit I did catch I was amazed at. The guy clearly seems to be in the wrong job. He waffled, back-tracked and I have no faith in him whatsoever

DCS
03-03-2012, 01:33 PM
programme about Early Years in the scandinavian countries,

Do you know the the name of the prog or a lonk you could share please?

TooEarlyForGin?
03-03-2012, 01:35 PM
Also to add, with some of the comments about the NCMA. I left the NCMA 5 years ago. They are useless at standing up for the very people that pay them. I'm not entirely sure what they do, surely they must have some hard hitting evidence to throw back? I wrote to them before I left as I felt they weren't fighting the corner for Childminders when the EYFS was first implemented, they just kept agreeing with whatever the government told them to do. I argued at the time that Childminders were special when the EYFS guidance came out with "a corner for this, and corner for that" I said it wasn't in any way written with nearly 40,000 childminders in mind, I got such a wet response, which could have been written by a government advisor, I cancelled my membership.

TooEarlyForGin?
03-03-2012, 01:37 PM
Do you know the the name of the prog or a lonk you could share please?

I'll have a hunt around, it was a link from the childminders section on mumsnet but it was about 2 years ago

green puppy
03-03-2012, 01:39 PM
The generalisation that Childminders in the south (ie London) are far too expensive and charge £10 per hour.:rolleyes:

Childminders in general are too expensive.

They lot's of phone call's from the parent perspective but only one call from a CM up north. What a lovely balanced view :rolleyes:

Another missed opportunity by the NCMA.

I really do wonder who does the research for these shows!?:rolleyes:

DCS
03-03-2012, 02:10 PM
Also to add, with some of the comments about the NCMA. I left the NCMA 5 years ago. They are useless at standing up for the very people that pay them. I'm not entirely sure what they do, surely they must have some hard hitting evidence to throw back? I wrote to them before I left as I felt they weren't fighting the corner for Childminders when the EYFS was first implemented, they just kept agreeing with whatever the government told them to do. I argued at the time that Childminders were special when the EYFS guidance came out with "a corner for this, and corner for that" I said it wasn't in any way written with nearly 40,000 childminders in mind, I got such a wet response, which could have been written by a government advisor, I cancelled my membership.

I applaud you for your strength of conviction:clapping:

DCS
03-03-2012, 02:12 PM
I'll have a hunt around, it was a link from the childminders section on mumsnet but it was about 2 years ago

I think ive found it, thank you all the same. :)

TooEarlyForGin?
03-03-2012, 02:17 PM
I think ive found it, thank you all the same. :)

Well done - better than me. I remember it also said that basically once staff were well trained to a good standard, they were basically left alone to "get on with it" didn't have to fill out reams of paperwork to justify everything.

jadavi
03-03-2012, 04:01 PM
Can someone who is on here and has an position with the NCMA take the question forward as to why no one would help the BBC with this programme? Show them this letter?

hollyberry
03-03-2012, 04:53 PM
I don't know what people like this think that children should be doing at 0-5 but we are the laughing stock of Europe the way we institutionalize our children and 'teach' them at such a young age.

Hear, hear rickysmiths. Two of the children I look after are 1 and 14 months old respectively. What am I supposed to be doing with them - forcing them to hold pens and write words and numbers they have no concept of yet?!! The lowly 'care' that this pillock refers to is absolutely central to the majority of my days with these children - making sure they have sleep/rest opportunities, always responding to their communications, providing a wide variety of healthy home-cooked foods, cuddling them, making them feel safe and secure.... I feel that this is the right focus and is what the parents want me to be doing. AFTER that, we do crafts, and sand play and outings - but the younger they are,the more the 'care' is a priority.

It seems to me this man has NO understanding of what children need, what the EYFS is, or how it is applied.

Carol M
03-03-2012, 05:22 PM
Absolutely.:clapping:
By the way, I love the word you used, pillock. Just googled to find the origin and true meaning of the word and I have to say I think your choice of word is spot on. :laughing:
Carol xx

hollyberry
03-03-2012, 06:30 PM
Absolutely.:clapping:
By the way, I love the word you used, pillock. Just googled to find the origin and true meaning of the word and I have to say I think your choice of word is spot on. :laughing:
Carol xx

How bad am I, I use that word and have never looked up its meaning .... here I go now...

ah, well done me, perfect choice of word!!! lol!!

justgoodfriends
03-03-2012, 07:00 PM
Can someone who is on here and has an position with the NCMA take the question forward as to why no one would help the BBC with this programme? Show them this letter?

The NCMA did provide the contact details of a childminder who was willing to take part, but the BBC did not contact her :mad:

Playmate
03-03-2012, 08:40 PM
The NCMA did provide the contact details of a childminder who was willing to take part, but the BBC did not contact her :mad:

This is interesting, I will speak to someone on Monday about their imput. I do find it very hard to believe that if they were given the opportunity to comment that they didn't. Blue boy and I have been approached by NCMA to receive some quite important visitors into our home (can't say more at the moment, but will do as soon as it is confirmed) and the person arranging this knows we would be more than happy to represent CM's in the media etc, I will let you know the responce as soon as I have one.

Mouse
03-03-2012, 09:29 PM
This is interesting, I will speak to someone on Monday about their imput. I do find it very hard to believe that if they were given the opportunity to comment that they didn't. Blue boy and I have been approached by NCMA to receive some quite important visitors into our home (can't say more at the moment, but will do as soon as it is confirmed) and the person arranging this knows we would be more than happy to represent CM's in the media etc, I will let you know the responce as soon as I have one.

When we had a local NCMA rep at our LA they kept a list of childminders who were willing to be contacted for interviews, comments etc. They had details of anything specific about us (eg. childminder with a disability, childminder with no children of their own etc etc). I'm pretty sure this was fed back to NCMA head office and I know I have been contacted in the past to take part in local news articles and radio phone ins.

I wonder if they still do something similar?

jadavi
03-03-2012, 10:34 PM
Thanks Playmate will watch this space xx