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View Full Version : Ofsted doesn't approve of sleeping in buggies?



jadavi
23-02-2012, 09:21 AM
Hi everyone,
This is what my development officer said when she did my RAG rating last week... has anyone else heard this confirmed?

Ofsted lady is coming on a day when infant falls asleep in buggy after short walk...its what the mum does and what she has asked me to do...If I transfer him to a travel cot (all I use) he will wake...

What do you think? Have the mum give me written instruction to leave infant in buggy to sleep to show Mrs O or transfer him and wake him up?

Quandary!!
Advice appreciated o wise ones!!!

muffins
23-02-2012, 09:31 AM
Yes I have heard this too! If its what mum does at home & its in his best interests then I would just get mum to sign to say its ok, this should be enough! I have done this in the past, child slept in buggy in the kitchen at home so I did the same but in my hall!:thumbsup:

Mouse
23-02-2012, 09:36 AM
I have heard this as well and am slightly concerned as all my mindees sleep in pushchairs. A friend has also been told that children shouldn't sleep on the sofa either.

At a previous inspection I discussed it with the inspector who was more than happy about it. I have written permission from parents, the pushchairs all lie completely flat and that is how the children sleep best. I don't have room for 3 travel cots.

I have now been told that unless you are out & about with the children, they shouldn't be allowed to sleep in a pushchair :(

JCrakers
23-02-2012, 09:38 AM
The problem with Ofsted inspectors are they dont all agree. So one inspector may mention it and another wont.

If my inspector says anything to me about my mindees who do sleep in the buggy as I dont have a car then I will show her/him the door :D
How are you supposed to get a sleeping child into a cot without waking them. Just making extra work for yourself really. I wouldnt worry about it but thats just me :D

kellib
23-02-2012, 09:41 AM
I haven't heard anything about that up here but I have one mindee who refuses to sleep in anything but a buggy here, what do they want us to do about that?

Can't they just trust childminders to make the best decision for each individual child?

boxtree7
23-02-2012, 09:52 AM
on my last inspection my baby was asleep in the conservatory after coming from school - the inspector said nothing - I did have a note from mum to say this is what she does at home and what i will do here. There was a big deal made about this a few years ago.

EmmaReed84
23-02-2012, 09:57 AM
Dont pussy foot around Mrs O. If they ask, be firm and explain why, stand by what you say don't be apologetic. If you show you are confident and there is a reasonable explaination as to why LO sleeps in a buggy then Mrs O can't really say anything.

In this case you are doing what is best for the child, he is falling asleep and you know that moving him will wake him up, stopping him getting the sleep he needs *simples*

onceinabluemoon
23-02-2012, 09:58 AM
My mindee is currently asleep in the hallway in the mountain buggy (lays flat), another one is in the wooden cot upstairs. If I put both upstairs the bigger one will wake the little one as she wakes up screaming (even if they are in different rooms). The little one will then scream for best part of an hour because he's overtired... It's in the best interests of my CM'd children to do it this way so they both get a decent sleep.

Mouse
23-02-2012, 10:02 AM
It's in the best interests of my CM'd children to do it this way so they both get a decent sleep.

That's what my inspector told me when we discussed it. She said you need to do whatever is best for the children. I was concerned becasue one of mine cried himself to sleep & I felt bad about him doing it while the inspector was there.
But, I had it written in his notes from his mum that that is what he did at home, so she said not to worry about it!

It seems the new inspector in our area doesn't approve of children being put to sleep in buggies though and gave the impression this was now the view of Ofsted in general :rolleyes:

~Chelle~
23-02-2012, 10:39 AM
When my inspector was here the LO was asleep in the buggy and she never even commented about it.

I think that it is all down to the Inspector on the day.

As long as you have risk assessed it, then it should be fine x

The Juggler
23-02-2012, 10:41 AM
if you are maintaining a child's routine and the child is not sleeping upright I don't see the problem. Personally I would argue that you are meeting both the child's needs and the parents wishes i.e. not waking child from nap early when they may not nap again AND continuing their home routine.

mushpea
23-02-2012, 11:12 AM
mine sleep in buggys in the garden and she didnt have a problem with that,, I told her I like them where I can see them incase there is a sudden problem. parents are quite happy with this arrangment, I dont feel its up to ofsted to tell parents where there children can sleep.

cara1235
23-02-2012, 12:29 PM
If Mrs O ever mentioned anything about this during my inspection i would put her firmly in her place and say that the childs individual needs are being met because this is what parents do at home!!!

Mollymop
23-02-2012, 12:34 PM
My mindees have slept in buggies, I haven't room for a cot as I only use downstairs so they sleep reclined in the buggy. They usually go to sleep on school runs etc in the buggy - it makes me laugh, cos what would mrs O want us to do ??? - wake child as soon as child falls aleep in buggy lol! Silly.
I have permission to use buggy for tots to sleep in and all parents have agreed so I don't see what Mrs O's problem is x

rickysmiths
23-02-2012, 12:53 PM
Firstly you need signed permission to do this.

I include this with my list of permissions which all my parents have to sign and agree to.

It says:

Permission to sleep on a bed, sofa, ready bed, travel cot, buggy or car seat age appropriate and to suit the individual childs needs.

Ofsted might get picky if you don't have written permission.

I currently have two children who will only sleep in the buggy and this is done with the parents full agreement, it is one that goes flat. It also gives me complete versatility in where, when ahnd how I can sleep the children in my care.

Be confident and explain why the child sleeps this way and how you are meeting their and their parents individual needs and requirements. :thumbsup:

I have never had a problem with Ofsted over this.

I would question the DOs reasoning as well and their lack of knowledge over the matter.

watgem
23-02-2012, 06:30 PM
My eyso said this too, but when I had my inspection last year the Ofsted inspector said it was fine-so hard to know what to do because no one seems to be able to agree on anything

sarah707
23-02-2012, 06:35 PM
Inspector was fine that I had written permission for it and was meeting the child's needs.

A lot of children sleep through school pick up time so I would be waking them if they were not portable / in a buggy.

You have to use your common sense :D

Ripeberry
23-02-2012, 06:36 PM
What do they say about sleeping in the car? I have to drive a lot to get anywhere such as playgroups/softplay and it can be 40-50mins in the car and the children will sleep in the seats for the whole time sometimes.

candy cat
23-02-2012, 06:44 PM
my 6mth mindee slept in a bouncy chair and I explained this is the only way he will settle...he was rocked all the time by mum.....I explained I was trying the travel cot,but he screams and gets so distressed plus if I am giving him all my time ...who is looking after the other children!?:panic: She said obviously not ideal,but she could see we were working on getting him in a cot.:)

mushpea
23-02-2012, 06:58 PM
I dont have permision and mrs O didnt have a problem with that,, I dont belive ofsted require you to have written permison but it may be good practise to do so.
they wouldnt sleep if they werent comfy and I am not about to wake a sleeping child to place them in a cot or bring them indoors when they are wrapped up in coats hats etc as they would then cook indoors with that lot on and if I take it off them they would wake

Penny1959
23-02-2012, 08:00 PM
I don't have written permission for sleeping in buggys - if asked I could provide evidence of discussion with parents about it.

Mrs Ofsted (senior HMI) for pilot inspection saw me put all 4 down for nap in buggies and commented on the good routines I had established.

Mrs Prospects for graded inspection saw me put one down for nap in buggy - made no comment at all

Mrs Ofsted (pre reg) discussed my plans and only asked about seperate bedding.


So in a period of 21 months - 3 different inspectors - and none of them had an issue with sleeping in buggys - none of them wanted to see / ask about written permission to sleep in buggys - none of them asked to see written risk assessments for sleeping in buggys.

Maybe I was lucky - but 3 times in 21months - I would say it is not really an issue.

Penny :)

rosebud
23-02-2012, 08:06 PM
My friend had a visit from Ofsted about 3 weeks ago and was told in no uncertain terms that children should not sleep in pushchairs or on sofas. They should always be in a travel cot / bed. She works with an assistant so where she is supposed to put 6 travel cots for all her LO's I can't imagine. I think this is very much down to the opinion of individual inspectors and I agree with one of the previous posters who said we need to be confident in explaining our reasons - why it is in the childs best interests and about parents wishes.

christine e
23-02-2012, 08:23 PM
In the event of having to evacuate the premises in an emergency situation I am sure it would be much easier if a child was sleeping in a buggy than asleep in a travel cot!

Cx

Twinkles
23-02-2012, 08:30 PM
Ours sleep in the garden if the weather permits. Six travel cots in the garden would be fun !

Penny1959
23-02-2012, 08:33 PM
In the event of having to evacuate the premises in an emergency situation I am sure it would be much easier if a child was sleeping in a buggy than asleep in a travel cot!

Cx

Totally agree Christine - and one of the reasons I don't sleep mine upstairs in the day time


Penny :)

NicoleW
23-02-2012, 08:36 PM
Ours sleep in the garden if the weather permits. Six travel cots in the garden would be fun !

Mine do too, but I keep forgetting to bring them in when it's raining

Penny1959
23-02-2012, 08:37 PM
My friend had a visit from Ofsted about 3 weeks ago and was told in no uncertain terms that children should not sleep in pushchairs or on sofas. They should always be in a travel cot / bed. She works with an assistant so where she is supposed to put 6 travel cots for all her LO's I can't imagine. I think this is very much down to the opinion of individual inspectors and I agree with one of the previous posters who said we need to be confident in explaining our reasons - why it is in the childs best interests and about parents wishes.

Just interested - did your friend get an action or a recommendation about this?

Or was she able to explain why she slept the children in pushchairs?

I ask because I am noticing a trend for verbal comments - things which could then be said just to be a inspectors personal opinion - and it then never gets mentioned in the report either in the text or as an action or recommendation

Penny :)

Playmate
23-02-2012, 09:00 PM
Dont pussy foot around Mrs O. If they ask, be firm and explain why, stand by what you say don't be apologetic. If you show you are confident and there is a reasonable explaination as to why LO sleeps in a buggy then Mrs O can't really say anything.

In this case you are doing what is best for the child, he is falling asleep and you know that moving him will wake him up, stopping him getting the sleep he needs *simples*

I agree Emma :thumbsup:

At the moment i don't have any that sleep in buggies, but have done in the past and it has never been questioned. I do not have and will not get written permission, just another piece of unecessary paperwork :angry:

jojobell
23-02-2012, 09:14 PM
this happened at my inspection in dec 2011............. 18 mnth old doesnt use a cot at home.... sleeps in family bed and buggys in day..... had it on my generic pommision forms that it was ok to sleep in buggy signed and dated........... i also had home rountine for babys forms and all about me forms in which the parents had written this was there chosen choice............................ ofsted lady commented that it was reaaly good that i was meeting parents wishes as i was providing contuity of care as close to the home enviroment as possible! maybe i was lucky i dnt no but at the end of the day it not up to ofstead its up to parents where the child sleeps......... ofstead r only checking u are using good practice!....... i guess as long as u can prove its to meet the needs of child and parents and not just for convience i dont see y its a problem

(90%l my parents prefere buggy sleeps as its what they do at home)

rosebud
23-02-2012, 09:46 PM
Just interested - did your friend get an action or a recommendation about this?

Or was she able to explain why she slept the children in pushchairs?

I ask because I am noticing a trend for verbal comments - things which could then be said just to be a inspectors personal opinion - and it then never gets mentioned in the report either in the text or as an action or recommendation

Penny :)

No she's in the process of registering her co-minder so it was a pre-reg inspection so no action or recommendation. I think perhaps the co-minder wasn't confident in answering the question and thats why it became an issue.

francinejayne
23-02-2012, 10:20 PM
When my inspector was here one mindee needed his nap, so I wrapped him up and popped him in the pram outside in my garden - I always put babies outside to sleep apart from the most extreme weather conditions. I have parental permission. Inspector was fine with it!

rickysmiths
24-02-2012, 12:23 AM
My friend had a visit from Ofsted about 3 weeks ago and was told in no uncertain terms that children should not sleep in pushchairs or on sofas. They should always be in a travel cot / bed. She works with an assistant so where she is supposed to put 6 travel cots for all her LO's I can't imagine. I think this is very much down to the opinion of individual inspectors and I agree with one of the previous posters who said we need to be confident in explaining our reasons - why it is in the childs best interests and about parents wishes.

I'm sorry but that is a load of rubbish and your friend should talk to her parents and get signed permission for their children to sleep in different situations.

How can I say this with such confidence? I had a complaint made by a parent last autumn and of of the things complained about was 'I made the lo who was 4.5 and at school and this was during the half days, sleep on a sofa.' Ofsted were absolutely fine with this and supported that I was supporting the childs needs by letting him sleep, he was falling asleep over his lunch. No part of the complaint was upheld.

I have two sofas one a more traditional one and one is an Ikea one that can be used as a single bed in its sofa state and a double when put flat. It is a flat continuous surface and I put a sheet on it, One the other sofa I tightly tuck a sheet in over the cushions. I actually have three children at the moment on 30mth, who has always slept on the sofa bed since I had him in Sept. Parents are over the moon because he made the transition into a bed just before Christmas like a dream and they think it was because of where he slept here. I have a 23 month old who I popped on there a few weeks ago because it was easier in relation to others I have and he has taken to it like a dream but there are days when he asked to sleep in the buggy. I have an 18 month old last week who climbed onto the sofa bed which is in the playroom, and fell fast asleep. I put a blanket over him and he slept for 2 hours and has slept there several times since.

I also sleep some in buggies and this is discussed with the parents. I had one sleeping in the buggy in the garden today.

Tink
24-02-2012, 07:18 AM
The things we can and cannot do are getting really out of hand now!

One person says one thing and another person says something different!

If Ofsted had a set of do's and don't s we would all be working from the same page, unfortunately that doesn't happen!

With regards to sleeping in a pushchair, I don't see the issue! I have 3 mindees who require a sleep whilst the other 3 children play, I live in a house not a purpose built nursery, my house cannot accommodate 3 or more travel cots 3 prams fit nicely in my kitchen whilst the other children play quietly in the living room.

I always explain this to parents at initial visits and no parent has yet had any issue with me doing this.

If Ofsted want to change this then they can give me the money to buy a purpose built property for the travel cots to go in!!!:angry:

kel1983
24-02-2012, 08:06 AM
Up until the beginning of Feb we had 2 children sleeping on the sofa at the same time. These are both children that have moved out of a cot at home so why should I put them in a cot when they are here. I probably would if they wouldnt settle but lukily they do.

We also care for an 18 month old who has just learnt to climb out her cot so we now sleep her in a pushchair in the dining room

They all sleep well and are all comfortable. They are all in sight so we can keep an eye out for them and also as someone else pointed out we are all on the same level if there is an emergency evactuation.

Penny1959
24-02-2012, 08:48 AM
No she's in the process of registering her co-minder so it was a pre-reg inspection so no action or recommendation. I think perhaps the co-minder wasn't confident in answering the question and thats why it became an issue.

Thank you for explaining - and I think you are right - confidence plays a big part - being able to explain why do things and how is in best interests of the children.

Penny :)