A 2 tiered CRB system for CMs?

[onceinabluemoon]

Following on from another post I have just commented on (didn't want to hijack that one) Am I right in reading that those CMs who were registered under SS do not have to be CRB checked?

Forgive me for saying so but I think either all CMs should be CRBd or none of us. A two tiered system is ludicrous. It feels as if CMs who have been CMing since the days of SS above suspicion but those of us who are relatively new to the job have to jump through every imaginable hoop?

I've recently been running around the county trying to find somebody who was suitable to sign my child's CRB (he has just turned 16) and him getting a few less than pleasant letters from ofsted (basically saying crb now, move out or they will close me down) can you imagine how I feel now finding out a lot of CMs aren't even CRBd? I am mortified, and to be perfectly honest more than a little hacked off!!

I don't mean any offence to those of you who were registered before ofsted, nor am I saying anybody is dishonest or anything like that, just don't like the whole one rule for one and another rule for everybody else thing.

What are others thoughts? leave it as it is, all CRBd or none of us? Or is the information in the other post totally wrong and SS registered CMs do have to be CRBd?

[mama2three]

Your info is correct - but those childminders were checked out , just under the system which existed at the time rather than the crb system. As with everything I would say it comes down to costs - it would cost ofsted a bomb to check each of them out , and they certainly shouldnt have to pay out for it themselves.

[SYLVIA]

This is correct. Ofsted at one point said all cm's need CRBs but then they found out how much it would cost them and they changed there minds!

[AgentTink]

I personally don't think crb's are that good anyway. If they are not updated every year how are we protecting children. Just because when I got my crb I didn't have any convictions, who would know if this situation changed? Personally I believe that everyone should had on done every year, both old and new childminders , but as everything in this world it comes down to costs over safety. But as I say, this is just my opinion.

[loocyloo]

it doesn't really bother me, those childminders that were checked under social services, WERE checked, as newer childminders were checked under CRB /ofsted.

what i would prefer is that we had to renew our CRB every 3 years! i volunteer in school and i need a crb renewed every 3 years for that. i do respite care for social services, and the girl who came to see me was HORRIFIED that my childminding crb was 8 or 9 years old! if i hadn't had one for school, then i don't know what they would have done about the respite care they had arranged :rolleyes:
i equally think that its daft that we need individual crb for each activity we are involved in, ie, childminding, school, beavers, teaching sunday school etc. surely if we had to renew every 3 years ( or whenever ) and then that CRB covered us completely it would be simpler!

[angeldelight]

I know what you mean.

I didn't have one,then about 7 years ago when my daughter registered to work with me,Ofsted suggested that I have one with her,so I still wouldn't if it wasn't for my daughter.

I never understand why we don't have to renew them either,at my daughters nursery they do them every 3 years

Personally I think they are a waste of time and money......get one then go and commit a crime the next day and who would know,they wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on :panic:

They don't mean anything there was a discussion about them on our local radio,some people commit crimes after their cbr is issued,so who would ever know?

Angel xxx

[angeldelight]

I don't mean I don't agree with the checks ,just that sometimes they mean nothing if you know what I mean.......for those who do not renew or have a few years before their next check.......if they have committed a crime!

I don't want anyone misunderstanding :laughing:

Xxx

[hollyvilla]

I was registered as a childminder by social services 22yrs ago. Both my husband and I were police checked then. However, this does cause problems as we have no paper evidence to show that this has ever happened and when visiting out local Childrens Centre with children they need proof that I as a childminder have a CRB, this I obviously do not have. So I am excluded from various childminder activities because of this. Though in my opinion unless CRB's are updated every year they are in fact fairly useless and prove nothing.

[jelly15]

We have to have ours updated in Wales every three years under the CSSIW. What annoys me is that my DH has to have two current CRBs, one for me and one for football coaching. DS1 has to have three, one for me, one for football coaching and one for his uni course. What a waste of money, there should be some system that covers everything.

[angeldelight]

We have to have ours updated in Wales every three years under the CSSIW. What annoys me is that my DH has to have two current CRBs, one for me and one for football coaching. DS1 has to have three, one for me, one for football coaching and one for his uni course. What a waste of money, there should be some system that covers everything.

I agree that's just daft.Who pays for them?

Angel xx

[Mouse]

Those of us who aren't CRB checked (because we registered before Ofsted & CRB even existed) had enhanced police checks done. They were way more thorough than a modern day CRB. We just don't have a written copy of the checks as they weren't given out.

Ofsted would not register anyone without a check , whether it be CRB or an enhanced police check, so you can be rest assured that anyone who is registered has had some check or other :thumbsup:

And they do say that CRBs are only actually valid on the day they are produced. Just because you hold a printed copy of a current CRB it doesn't mean you are squeaky clean. You could have had been up to anything the day after it was produced & it wouldn't be known.
Renewing them every now & again would probably be a good thing, but as usual, that comes down to money :rolleyes:

[onceinabluemoon]

Ahhh, I knew the 'older' CMs had police checks done but genuinely thought our CRBs were renewed every three years as my SJA one is and so was my school one (sure I read that CMs were on a post at one point but maybe that was when they were planning to do them for all?) and their's were a one off. That makes a bit more sense! I'm glad I asked, although I've made a total 'arris' of myself, lol

Thank you for your replies. :)

[rickysmiths]

You are right and I am one of those who has never had a CRB done by Ofsted. It was too expensive when they took over from SS in 2001 for them to do them on all existing cms. It is not that they don't have to have them, Ofsted decided not to do them.

I have had several done over the years by other organizations with which I am involved.

To be honest CRBs are only any good the day they are done and where other organizations I belong to, the Scout Association being one, at least re do them every 3 years. Ofsted have never even done this.

I therefore can't get excited about it and don't regard it as a 2 tier system. There are probably a lot of cms who registered after April in 2001 who had CRBs done that year and have never had another one done so how are they any different from me, who had a Police check done by my LA every 3 years?

Why are you running around to get your sons CRB signed? One of his teachers at school could have done it, your GP could have done it or a ,professional next door neighbour who had known him for at least 2 years. Thats what I did for my two, went to our next door neighbour who happens to be a lecturer he was more than happy to help. If he hadn't I would have gone to their Group Scout Leader. Does he belong to any clubs?

I actually disagree with it being done at 16yrs if the child is still at school. I know it is technically because they can have a criminal record at that age but on their 16th birthday!!! The Scout Association and I believe the Guides do it at 18yrs. You should return the forms as quickly as you can and I suppose Ofsted have to follow up if you don't.

[rickysmiths]

I was registered as a childminder by social services 22yrs ago. Both my husband and I were police checked then. However, this does cause problems as we have no paper evidence to show that this has ever happened and when visiting out local Childrens Centre with children they need proof that I as a childminder have a CRB, this I obviously do not have. So I am excluded from various childminder activities because of this. Though in my opinion unless CRB's are updated every year they are in fact fairly useless and prove nothing.

I would complain in writing about this. They excluding you is frankly ignorant to say the least. The fact that you are still a registered childminder demonstrates that Ofsted deem you a 'Suitable Person' which is all you need. This is Discrimination and not allowed. I would be livid.

[mandy moo]

Well I dont have a seperate CRB for Childminding.
I have a Enhanced CRB for when I was working in our local school pre Childminding, that was done in 2004..
And a Crb for the pre School I work at during the day..

I'll have been minding 4 years in March, Young in Herts, paid for all my trainin g, CRB check, 1st Aid.
I have never recived a seperate CRB for that.
I have queried this with Ofsted 2 or 3 times, every time I have had occasion to ring them up actually, the last time I queried it, I was told basically I wouldnt be a Ofsted Registered Childminder If I hadnt passed my CRB..
and if a parent queries it to ask them to call Ofsted..

[rickysmiths]

We have to have ours updated in Wales every three years under the CSSIW. What annoys me is that my DH has to have two current CRBs, one for me and one for football coaching. DS1 has to have three, one for me, one for football coaching and one for his uni course. What a waste of money, there should be some system that covers everything.

That is what the Vetting and Barring System was meant to but it was cancelled by this government when they came into power.

I have always thought it daft that we have to have different ones for different organisations. I have has 3 at one time and DH had 5 at one time!

[Penny1959]

I would complain in writing about this. They excluding you is frankly ignorant to say the least. The fact that you are still a registered childminder demonstrates that Ofsted deem you a 'Suitable Person' which is all you need. This is Discrimination and not allowed. I would be livid.

I to would be very cross and would complain. You are Ofsted registered - this mean that Ofsted have accepted your previous checks through SS.

They can not exclude you for something that you can not get - a look at your registration certificate should bbe more than enough.


Penny :)

[Mouse]

I was registered as a childminder by social services 22yrs ago. Both my husband and I were police checked then. However, this does cause problems as we have no paper evidence to show that this has ever happened and when visiting out local Childrens Centre with children they need proof that I as a childminder have a CRB, this I obviously do not have. So I am excluded from various childminder activities because of this. Though in my opinion unless CRB's are updated every year they are in fact fairly useless and prove nothing.

There was a letter going around a while ago that you could give to the children's centre if they asked for a CRB certificate. It basically said the fact that you are registered by Ofsted means you are judged as a suitable person & you don't need to show it.

Does anyone else remember it? I don't know if I saw it on here, if it came from me LA or if it was something from NCMA?

[Mouse]

This must be what I was thinking about

http://www.*************/childminders/advice/crb_and_childrens_centres.aspx

Basically the document says that if you are using the children's centre as a childminder, they do not need to be checking on yor CRB & should treat you the same as a parent.

If they used you to provide a service, they would need to ensure you were checked, as they would with any employee.

[nic t]

The whole system is a joke imo.

So my mum who works in a secondary school office has to be CRB'd every 3 years. She is never alone with any of these children.

We as childminders do not have to have in certain cases, or renew ours yet we often work alone with the most vulnerable members of our society. Just don't get it?

Also what use is a CRB without a linked system of communication between authorities? A CRB is invalid the day it is printed.

So you can go and commit a crime, get arrested, charged yet unless you disclosed this info to Ofsted they would never know. There should be some kind of system that the police use to check if a person is CRB'd and if so they inform whoever inititated the CRB if a person is cautioned or charged.

How many parents out there are unaware that their childminder has a caution or a conviction? A very good friend of mine got cautioned for assault whilst working yet do her mindees parents know? No, and in my opinion that is wrong they should know.

[little chickee]

Not only are CRB's invalid as soon as they are printed they only show up things if you have ben caught and convicted.

You can have a list of crimes as long as your arm but if you've never been caught it won't show up!

[Mouse]

The whole system is a joke imo.

So my mum who works in a secondary school office has to be CRB'd every 3 years. She is never alone with any of these children.

We as childminders do not have to have in certain cases, or renew ours yet we often work alone with the most vulnerable members of our society. Just don't get it?

Also what use is a CRB without a linked system of communication between authorities? A CRB is invalid the day it is printed.

So you can go and commit a crime, get arrested, charged yet unless you disclosed this info to Ofsted they would never know. There should be some kind of system that the police use to check if a person is CRB'd and if so they inform whoever inititated the CRB if a person is cautioned or charged.

How many parents out there are unaware that their childminder has a caution or a conviction? A very good friend of mine got cautioned for assault whilst working yet do her mindees parents know? No, and in my opinion that is wrong they should know.

I think that is what the vetting and barring scheme was supposed to be. Ofsted, for example, would check your info on a central register. If you then committed a crime, anyone who had requested your info (in this case ofsted) would be told.

IMO it would have been a lot better than a CRB, but in the end it all came down to money.

[blue bear]

The police have access to the childminder system and if you are ever arrested or someone at your house is or even pulled in for questioning they have this information. Not sure how but I do know a friend whose son was questioned and ofsted were informed immediately.
That is why they do not need to re do crbs or do crbs for those who have enhanced police checks, anything you get upto that might affect your business is told to ofsted by the police.

[Playmate]

It was proposed at the last NCMA conference (I know because I was the one that read out the resolution and Christine E seconded it ;)) To lobby government for ALL CM's to be CRB checked. It was agreed that it was unfair as many pre ofsted CM's have been penalised :( Hopefully with the lobbying this will be resloved.

[rickysmiths]

It was proposed at the last NCMA conference (I know because I was the one that read out the resolution and Christine E seconded it ;)) To lobby government for ALL CM's to be CRB checked. It was agreed that it was unfair as many pre ofsted CM's have been penalised :( Hopefully with the lobbying this will be resloved.



In what way are pre Ofsted cms penalised because they don't have a CRB?

I have never been aware of it being a problem.

It was a requirement for joining the Level 3 Course I am on but it was soon sorted out and I was not stopped from going on the course.

Many of us have had CRBs done by other organizations that we are involved in anyway like Scouts, Guides or Sports Clubs.

But it has never stopped me doing anything or getting new children.

[miffy]

I was registered as a childminder by social services 22yrs ago. Both my husband and I were police checked then. However, this does cause problems as we have no paper evidence to show that this has ever happened and when visiting out local Childrens Centre with children they need proof that I as a childminder have a CRB, this I obviously do not have. So I am excluded from various childminder activities because of this. Though in my opinion unless CRB's are updated every year they are in fact fairly useless and prove nothing.

That is wrong of the children's centre, they should not exclude you. I would be fuming!!!!!

Miffy xx