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View Full Version : yeah for Corrie!! Positive reinforcement!



jadavi
21-01-2012, 12:06 PM
Cheering out loud when Roy in Corrie was telling Owen about how positive reinforcement is more effective with dogs than hitting (after he had hit a child)...yay yay yay
I wish someone would tell Own it's also illegal....

Bless bless Roy!!

Now lets just hope they'll next tackle breast feeding and not bottles and dummies for their new borns..... it would mean such a lot if they modelled it to all the Corrie watching teens

onceinabluemoon
21-01-2012, 01:26 PM
Ahhh, brill, glad you brought this up. I thought it was fab too :)

On the same note, can anybody point me towards the legislation stating that it is illegal to smack your own child please? I didn't actually know it had been passed as law as could really do with this as a couple of people I know smack. Thanks

ps I don't hit anybody, kids or adults, this isn't for me! :eek:

Pipsqueak
21-01-2012, 01:43 PM
no its NOT illegal to smack your own child - 'reasonable' chastisment is perfectly legal. A smidgeon of definition of 'reasonable' it that smacking cannot leave a mark.

crazyXstitcher
21-01-2012, 01:50 PM
Faye is not Owens child though is she. Surely it's at least illegal to hit one that isn't your own.

I haven't seen thursday or fridays episodes yet but surely Owen is going to be in abit of trouble over this.

<<hides from this thread until she's watched the episodes>> :D

Playmate
21-01-2012, 01:52 PM
no its NOT illegal to smack your own child - 'reasonable' chastisment is perfectly legal. A smidgeon of definition of 'reasonable' it that smacking cannot leave a mark.

Glad you have said this Pip, because this is what I thought, but thought maybe I had missed something.

onceinabluemoon
21-01-2012, 02:04 PM
no its NOT illegal to smack your own child - 'reasonable' chastisment is perfectly legal. A smidgeon of definition of 'reasonable' it that smacking cannot leave a mark.

That's what I thought, but then thought maybe I had missed something being brought in. Good to know I'm still up to date with the rules. ;)

barbarella68
21-01-2012, 05:42 PM
I like the bit about the breastfeeding and dummies-not.:(
Don't really a soap to tell me what is best for my child.

BuggsieMoo
21-01-2012, 06:10 PM
In the UK, spanking or smacking is legal, but it may not leave a mark on the body, and in Scotland since October 2003 it has been illegal to use any implements when disciplining a child. The total abolition of corporal punishment has been discussed. In a 2004 survey, 71% of the population would support a ban on parents smacking their children. In a 2006 survey, 80% of the population said they believed in smacking, and 73% said that they believed that any ban would cause a sharp deterioration in children's behaviour. Seven out of ten parents said they themselves use corporal punishment.

HTH

stardust
21-01-2012, 06:29 PM
In the UK, spanking or smacking is legal, but it may not leave a mark on the body, and in Scotland since October 2003 it has been illegal to use any implements when disciplining a child. The total abolition of corporal punishment has been discussed. In a 2004 survey, 71% of the population would support a ban on parents smacking their children. In a 2006 survey, 80% of the population said they believed in smacking, and 73% said that they believed that any ban would cause a sharp deterioration in children's behaviour. Seven out of ten parents said they themselves use corporal punishment.

HTH

I'm not against smacking (your own children), I think its exceptable in certain situations. When you have tried every other option.
Sometimes a tap on the hand gives that sense of shock that is sometimes needed.
If you have a child continuously putting their selves in danger (not necessary at a minders house but in their own homes), no matter how many time outs you use, no matter what toys you take away or how many times you explain it they will continue. It is more dangerous to allow them to keep doing it until they become electrocuted, therefore that little tap gives the shock factor. Just like hot drinks, running in the road ect.
There's a difference between a small tap and beating your child. But i do feel that smacking should be the last resort.
I know i'm going to be lynched but its my opinion.

Also the breastfeeding thing, they cannot show this on TV as 1. the children are not actually theirs, they are mini actors so shoving a boob that does not belong to mummy in the baby's mouth is unacceptable and also they have to be careful how much flesh is on show.
And 2. because of the amount of complaints they would receive form all the people who find it unacceptable to breast feed in public.

jadavi
21-01-2012, 06:38 PM
They could suggest breast feeding is going on by discreet shawls etc - of course they needn't actually show it. It doesn't even need to feature but we can know that her baby is breast fed...

Corrie and the like reach a massive audience of young mums who are influenced as we all are by the media.
The health message that has been extolled for years by the \NHS that 'breast is best' would be so effective thru soaps. The health benefits for the child are enormous. They really have no excuse for not doing it.

I cant believe that all the babies born in Corrie the last ten years have been bottle fed. It stupid cos the script writers only do it so other characters can give bottles - but they can still do this by mums expressing milk.
It's on the same level as Steve trying to give up smoking. They need to bring their script writing up to date.

This has galvanised me to join Corrie's facebook page (if it exists) and start giving them grief!!

BuggsieMoo
21-01-2012, 07:06 PM
I'm not against smacking (your own children), I think its exceptable in certain situations. When you have tried every other option.
Sometimes a tap on the hand gives that sense of shock that is sometimes needed.
If you have a child continuously putting their selves in danger (not necessary at a minders house but in their own homes), no matter how many time outs you use, no matter what toys you take away or how many times you explain it they will continue. It is more dangerous to allow them to keep doing it until they become electrocuted, therefore that little tap gives the shock factor. Just like hot drinks, running in the road ect.
There's a difference between a small tap and beating your child. But i do feel that smacking should be the last resort.
I know i'm going to be lynched but its my opinion.

Also the breastfeeding thing, they cannot show this on TV as 1. the children are not actually theirs, they are mini actors so shoving a boob that does not belong to mummy in the baby's mouth is unacceptable and also they have to be careful how much flesh is on show.
And 2. because of the amount of complaints they would receive form all the people who find it unacceptable to breast feed in public.

I was brought up getting a smack and I dont think its did me any harm. Im not against it either and like you believe that it should firmly be the last resort and not routine punishment so to speak. I agree there is a massive difference between a 'tap' and a belt.

mushpea
21-01-2012, 08:17 PM
I dont watch corrie but have never hit my children and dont condone it but each to their own.
I disagree and actualy feel upset about the breast feeding comment,, i tried hard with my daughter to breast feed but it didnt work and I felt both inadequete and like a peice of meat in the end with the midwifes trying to put her on me so when my son was born he went straight on bottles,,, My daugher is a brain box and is in top sets in high school though goodness knows where she gets her brains from but bottle feeding did her no harm at all and my son has his issues with excema, astma and ADHD but he is a happy chappy and who knows if i had breast fed he may have been healthier but then again he may not but to be honest I dont care because they are both wonderful children whom i love dearly and I know i did the best for them, and this thing about bonding better when breast feeding is rubbish, there is nothing that beats looking down in to your babies eyes when they are feeding wether they are on the bottle or breast.
Good for those who can breast feed and enjoying but for those that cant dont feel bad your children will be just fine.

BuggsieMoo
21-01-2012, 08:23 PM
I dont watch corrie but have never hit my children and dont condone it but each to their own.
I disagree and actualy feel upset about the breast feeding comment,, i tried hard with my daughter to breast feed but it didnt work and I felt both inadequete and like a peice of meat in the end with the midwifes trying to put her on me so when my son was born he went straight on bottles,,, My daugher is a brain box and is in top sets in high school though goodness knows where she gets her brains from but bottle feeding did her no harm at all and my son has his issues with excema, astma and ADHD but he is a happy chappy and who knows if i had breast fed he may have been healthier but then again he may not but to be honest I dont care because they are both wonderful children whom i love dearly and I know i did the best for them, and this thing about bonding better when breast feeding is rubbish, there is nothing that beats looking down in to your babies eyes when they are feeding wether they are on the bottle or breast.
Good for those who can breast feed and enjoying but for those that cant dont feel bad your children will be just fine.

Well said re the BF side of things. I know how you feel. My daughter was intially breastfed and when she was 2 weeks old she got infantile menagitius (sp) and the doctors put her onto bottles in the hospital as 1) I could not express enough and 2) they wanted to see how much she was taking in so every feed was monitored. They reassured me that she would continue to bf when she was discharged but this never happened she would not do it and I was heartbroken and like you I felt like a let down. However she is top set in her class, tall, beautiful, intelligent and my little angel and I could not love her anymore x

Pipsqueak
21-01-2012, 09:18 PM
They could suggest breast feeding is going on by discreet shawls etc - of course they needn't actually show it. It doesn't even need to feature but we can know that her baby is breast fed...

Corrie and the like reach a massive audience of young mums who are influenced as we all are by the media.
The health message that has been extolled for years by the \NHS that 'breast is best' would be so effective thru soaps. The health benefits for the child are enormous. They really have no excuse for not doing it.

I cant believe that all the babies born in Corrie the last ten years have been bottle fed. It stupid cos the script writers only do it so other characters can give bottles - but they can still do this by mums expressing milk.
It's on the same level as Steve trying to give up smoking. They need to bring their script writing up to date.

This has galvanised me to join Corrie's facebook page (if it exists) and start giving them grief!!



I think what DOES need to happen is a good balance of breast (the suggestion of) and bottle fed babies
discuss the issues surrounding dummies

however DON'T shove it down peoples throats that it SHOULD or HAS to be this way.

I BF'd all of my kids... almost to the detriment of number 3 IF I had listened to the HV. He was lactose intolerant and that included my milk. He was really really poorly.
That though did not stop me feeling like a failure for being 'unable' to feed him myself. People should not be made to feel that way.

Soaps should provide the issue and raise awareness of the good the bad and the ugly surrounding it.

Same as dummies... they are NOT a bad thing - used correctly and in fact they are life savers for some children/families


as to the smacking issue - its a very emotive one. I was smacked as a child and I am actually a pretty decent person. I wasn't beaten, nor was I repeatedly walloped, I was only smacked when actually yes I deserved it.
I have no problem with those who choose to smack their own child - I have smacked my children - when they deserved it and all other avenues were closed off. I have (shock horror) lost my rag and smacked my child in anger - they have driven me to that edge.

There does (imo) appear to be a decline in behaviour from children since the anti-smacking campaigns have worked their magic. Children fear nothing nowadays do they - not their parents, not teachers, not the local bobby, not the law. There is no consequence to their actions. I am not suggesting at all that the answer is smacking a chilld per se however there has to be balance

jadavi
21-01-2012, 11:25 PM
Apologies for any upset. If people have made a considered choice based on their circs then that is all anyone can expect. No one is pointing any fingers. 'Breast is best' was an NHS slogan at the time when I had my babies which is why I used it.

My issue is that by presenting the feeding option one sided only on soaps, a large number of girls/women who may not be exposed to these ideas at all may feel that its not nice to breast feed/that its embarrassing/that its messy/that no one in her family did it etc etc . These programmes have a duty to reflect current culture and they are failing in this respect.

I am asking for a balanced representation in these soaps because they have such a massive audience. BF is never represented and there needs to be more awareness of it in my opinion. It's not to say its for everyone, espec if it is upsetting people's experience of mothering. as long as people know of its benefits and do not feel it is socially unacceptable which it will continue to be if programmes like Corrie continue to promote bottle feeding and dummies by showing every baby with one.

Maza
22-01-2012, 09:34 AM
I gave my daughter a dummy to help with her acid reflux - I was told that it makes them produce more saliva which waters down the acid.

helendee
22-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Unfortunately Breast is Best is definitely not true for my poor niece, she has badly ulcerated nipples and has to go to the hospital daily to have them cleaned and dressed and faces possibly losing part of her breast.... meanwhile her eight week old son is screaming as he cannot feed properly and she won't give him a bottle as she has been, in my opinion, brainwashed into thinking that she is only a good mum if she breastfeeds!!! :(

helendee
22-01-2012, 11:56 AM
Apologies for any upset. If people have made a considered choice based on their circs then that is all anyone can expect. No one is pointing any fingers. 'Breast is best' was an NHS slogan at the time when I had my babies which is why I used it.

My issue is that by presenting the feeding option one sided only on soaps, a large number of girls/women who may not be exposed to these ideas at all may feel that its not nice to breast feed/that its embarrassing/that its messy/that no one in her family did it etc etc . These programmes have a duty to reflect current culture and they are failing in this respect.

I am asking for a balanced representation in these soaps because they have such a massive audience. BF is never represented and there needs to be more awareness of it in my opinion. It's not to say its for everyone, espec if it is upsetting people's experience of mothering. as long as people know of its benefits and do not feel it is socially unacceptable which it will continue to be if programmes like Corrie continue to promote bottle feeding and dummies by showing every baby with one.

I don't understand why either breast of bottle feeding needs to be promoted by anyone, least of all via television programmes, it is purely the choice of the child's parents how it is fed so what interest or business is it of anyone else?

jadavi
24-01-2012, 10:53 PM
Tv programmes are part of the media that has a strong effect on our choices whether we realise it or not.

uf353432
24-01-2012, 11:11 PM
I'm fairly sure Ronnie Mitchell in Eastenders was shown as a BF mother before they went down the SIDS route - and then bottle fed the baby she snatched. Ironically on todays TV you are more likely to see BF on TV as a route to advertise formula (I'm thinking of Aptimal specifically, but there have been others).

I am always intrigued when the subject of BF is brought up - and I mean this observation with the greatest respect - mums become very defensive of their feeding choices, are pretty quick to justify how they fed their child. How you feed your child does not alter your worth as a mother, I certainly do not assume that if you FF your child that they will be out performed in school by the BF peers or that your child will be in ill health. For some how to feed your child is an easy choice, harder for others - the reality is that its a choice for you to make for your child alone.

I personally agree that on TV there should be a greater balance of showing that babies are fed both ways in our society - I think it should represent the choices a cross section of the population make - I hope that this will normalise feeding choices whatever they may be, so that mothers can be at peace with their choices.

onceinabluemoon
25-01-2012, 08:10 AM
Sorry but I'm going to be a little controversial. I disagree that soap operas etc have a duty to promote healthy living/breast feeding etc. I think we get all that thrust down our throats all the time from health professionals, gym instructors, doctors, midwives etc. TV should surely be for enjoyment/winding down if that is how you choose to enjoy yourself.

Personally I don't use TV for entertainment much and certainly am not weak enough to be swayed in a decision by something I had seen on TV. After all you see people going out battering old ladies in cop shows but that doesn't encourage you to do it does it?

Playmate
25-01-2012, 09:11 AM
Sorry but I'm going to be a little controversial. I disagree that soap operas etc have a duty to promote healthy living/breast feeding etc. I think we get all that thrust down our throats all the time from health professionals, gym instructors, doctors, midwives etc. TV should surely be for enjoyment/winding down if that is how you choose to enjoy yourself.

Personally I don't use TV for entertainment much and certainly am not weak enough to be swayed in a decision by something I had seen on TV. After all you see people going out battering old ladies in cop shows but that doesn't encourage you to do it does it?

I so agree OBM :thumbsup:

As an Ex health professional who bottle fed all 3 of her very healthy intellegent children I still feel very irritated that I have to justify my decission, which was right for me in the given circumstances. The information is out there in abundance already and what ever the age of the mother they make an informed decision.

uf353432
25-01-2012, 09:50 AM
I so agree OBM :thumbsup:

As an Ex health professional who bottle fed all 3 of her very healthy intellegent children I still feel very irritated that I have to justify my decission, which was right for me in the given circumstances. The information is out there in abundance already and what ever the age of the mother they make an informed decision.

But who is asking you to justify your feeding decision on this occasion? This is what I don't get - when I see threads like this on any forum I don't automatically think - right I now need to tell anyone how I fed my children, for how long and assure people of their mental and health capabilities as children regardless of the choice I made, that I am still a fab mother regardless of my feeding choice. But so far 3 different people have felt the need to justify why they didn't BF their children - but thats not the point.

Historically soap opera's and the like have been used to raise awareness to the masses, in a language the masses understand and can relate to. They cover minor and monumental issue's to incite discussion in the media and communities - and whilst BF information may be in abundance for certain sectors of our community - its delivered in such a way that people feel preached at or judged. Normalising BF in the media could be considered as a gentle way for people to get the facts - but at its basic form it just shows that people do BF, and that its not weird and doesn't have to be a big thing. A BF mother could sit alongside a Bottle feeding mother and how they feed their child should never be an issue.

There is still a massive stigma in this country about BF - in part because the government promote it through their agencies in such a preachy way that people are immediately defensive (rightly so) if they 'opt out'. Also in part because women who do BF are seen as hippy nature loving weirdo women and because there have been very few positive bf role models in the media, on telly or in films.

I have no idea why we have made this such an emotive and taboo subject. Its crazy!

barbarella68
25-01-2012, 10:11 AM
Well I think you are wrong. There is no stigma about breast feeding it is the other way round.As a Mum who breast fed her son I see lots of comments about Breast is best blah blah blah , but if a mother states she actually formula fed her child the breast feeding brigade are down her throat as soon as she opens who mouth. To be honest does it really matter as long as child is loved and cared for. I know plenty of women who breast feed and their children have all sorts wrong with the child from eczema to asthma so who is to say what is right or wrong.

EmmaReed84
25-01-2012, 10:29 AM
I bottle fed both my babies for two totally different reasons and I am still made to feel guilty today about that decision, even today!

1st time I had developed pre-eclampsia, had a horrific, stressful labour and delivery. After about an hour the midwife said Baby needed feeding. I tried to get him to latch on even through I was shattered and baby was distressed. MW kepts pulling me about, pinching boob, making me change position and making comments like "Come on Emma, you can do it" "Get him to latch on then" "it is better for baby to breast feed" really made me feel so upset, and useless. In the end I broke down and just shouted at her to give him a bottle, he STILL tried to move me about saying "Come on, you can do it Emma, it's not that hard. You are making this hard by stressing" In the end my Mum blasted her and told her to get a bottle and leave me alone as she causing both me and baby to be stressed... My son took the bottle straight away and was calm and happy. He is now 6 and I can count on one hand the amount of times he has been ill.

2nd time round I was so traumatised by my first experience I point blank refused to even try, I felt immense pressure and anxiety that I would be pushed again I felt the need to repeat myself... Thankfully the MW were sooo lovely.

I regret that I didnt try the 2nd time but people making comments and making you feel like a failure because you DIDN'T/COULDN'T breastfeed can have a lasting effect.

I think a 50/50 balance in soaps is a good idea... If done casually and not to make a point. The whole point should be a baby is fed full stop, noT HOW!

uf353432
25-01-2012, 10:38 AM
Well I think you are wrong. There is no stigma about breast feeding it is the other way round.As a Mum who breast fed her son I see lots of comments about Breast is best blah blah blah , but if a mother states she actually formula fed her child the breast feeding brigade are down her throat as soon as she opens who mouth. To be honest does it really matter as long as child is loved and cared for. I know plenty of women who breast feed and their children have all sorts wrong with the child from eczema to asthma so who is to say what is right or wrong.

did I not say that women are made to feel guilty if they opt out of bf? i'm sure I did - because I see that all too clearly. But that doesn't mean I am 'wrong' just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean its not true.

barbarella68
25-01-2012, 11:10 AM
I actually said "I think" you are wrong which is my opinion.Obviously you have yours but I never heard/seen/read FF Mums ever say to BF mums what you are doing is not right and you should FF but I do the other way round and I am sure that others will tell you that too.

uf353432
25-01-2012, 11:33 AM
I actually said "I think" you are wrong which is my opinion.Obviously you have yours but I never heard/seen/read FF Mums ever say to BF mums what you are doing is not right and you should FF but I do the other way round and I am sure that others will tell you that too.

I agree its unlikely that a FF would tell a BF mum to FF - but I could imagine a scenario where BF mum is really struggling and FF mum suggests kindly if her friend should give the child a bottle, because they think it would help. I also have heard of many BF women complain that husbands, parents, friends etc are not supportive of their BF and encourage them to give the child a bottle. Helpful comments like - you look exhausted dear, why don't you give the baby some formula so daddy can help with the feeds. Or.... the child is not gaining enough weight? well maybe introduce a formula feed so it fills their tummy then. Or.......is that baby still not sleeping through the night? perhaps a formula feed should be introduced. or......you say the baby is constantly hungry? well its no wonder dear - you need to give that child formula - that will fill him up. or.....what you are STILL bf? but surely you should have moved onto formula then.

Equally though yes I absolutely have heard BF mothers speak to FF mothers, judgementally and making assumptions that they didn't try, didn't want to, are too selfish and its wrong wrong wrong. By the same token i've also heard BF mothers offer to support new mothers with bf if 'they' want to.

I hope you are not under the misguided view that I carry the baton for a particular feeding type - you don't actually know how I fed my children, because I think its irrelevant. I carry the baton for choice and as a childminder I support 'mothers' regardless of their feeding choice and I understand and appreciate the issues from both side of the feeding debate. At no point have I felt that someone else was wrong, I value everyones contribution to a polite debate.

barbarella68
25-01-2012, 12:45 PM
I am under no view what so ever misguided or otherwise, and you are quite right I do not know how you fed your children and to be honest it is not my business or anyone else's. I just am tired of people(mostly Bf mum's) assuming that because I breastfed(did it for a while-hated it) I think it is the best choice, well I don't the best choice is what is right for the mother and child and I wish that people would stop ganging up on people that don't breastfeed.Who cares as long as Mum and Baby are healthy and happy.

~Chelle~
25-01-2012, 01:10 PM
As long as babies are healthy and well looked after, it is nobody's business how you feed your child.

Sadly this is one of those debates that only causes bad feeling as everyone thinks that they are right and in a way they are right, because the decision on how they feed their baby is their decision and they should be respected for that.

Moving on.........

Mel_Johnson
25-01-2012, 01:57 PM
Wow this is a really charged subject. I am a breastfeeding peer supporter in my local area and attend a group who offer support to Mum who want to try and breastfed. It can be very difficult for some Mum's to get the hang of breastfeeding and the pressure that is unintentionaly put on them by friends and families opionions can make them end up making a decision that they are not happy with and can feel very guilty afterwards about their choices.

I am personally pro choice and think that parents should be allowed to make that choice freely and get the support they need to fulfil it. I do know some of my fellow peer supporters can be very preachy about breastfeeding and are too full on which does help anyone

uf353432
25-01-2012, 02:13 PM
I'm a BF peer support worker as well :) it is very rewarding and agree that some support workers are a bit too hard core in their attitude which is a huge shame as their attitude does nothing to promote a positive experience for anyone.

The problem with the feeding debate is it is a highly emotive one for most mothers. From birth feeding and love is linked - this is felt by both feeding methods as its when most of the bonding takes place especially in the early days. The rush of hormones as the baby feeds and the attachment you feel in that given moment is the same. Not many mothers feel detached from their babies when they feed them regardless of the method. So because of this people do feel like they are being attacked. Using a 'breast is best' strapline makes those who don't bf 2nd best - breast may not necessarily be best for them, and in some cases it could be highly detrimental. Unfortunately there are a great number of BF mothers who wear their 'I bf my children' as a badge of honour - so I really feel for any mother who made a choice that was right for them and their baby, and was made to feel in anyway that it was a bad choice to make.

Sadly I don't think that its something that will go away - we are mammals at times ruled by our emotions - so its always going to hurt mummies everywhere until society as a whole stops being so darn judgemental.