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keeks
26-11-2011, 12:24 PM
I've got a mindee who is turning 5 in a month's time. He is home schooled and comes to me part time three days per week.

When he turns 5, am I right in assuming he is then an over 5 (I know, I'm a genius!)? And even though he isn't in full time education he doesn't count in my under 5's?

I've got permission from my network coordinator to bring him to our groups even though they are meant for under 5's.

And I still need to continue EYFS with him until end of August, is that right?

xx

jumpinjen
26-11-2011, 12:32 PM
Yes on all scores!

Hugs, Jen x

Pipsqueak
26-11-2011, 05:14 PM
I've got a mindee who is turning 5 in a month's time. He is home schooled and comes to me part time three days per week.

When he turns 5, am I right in assuming he is then an over 5 (I know, I'm a genius!)? And even though he isn't in full time education he doesn't count in my under 5's?

I've got permission from my network coordinator to bring him to our groups even though they are meant for under 5's.

And I still need to continue EYFS with him until end of August, is that right?

xx

yes if he is in fulltime (home) education and over 5 then he goes into your 5-8 yrs ratios.

yes you will still need to do EYFS right up till he is just before he would start Y1 (technically!)

Mouse
26-11-2011, 05:19 PM
I thought there was someone in here a few months back who was told by Ofsted that as a child was home schooled, they didn't count as a rising 5 and had to stay in the EY numbers.

Also, if he goes the a cm 3 days a week, presumably he isn't homeschooled full-time?

I think I would check it out with Ofsted.

rickysmiths
26-11-2011, 05:27 PM
I thought there was someone in here a few months back who was told by Ofsted that as a child was home schooled, they didn't count as a rising 5 and had to stay in the EY numbers.

Also, if he goes the a cm 3 days a week, presumably he isn't homeschooled full-time?

I think I would check it out with Ofsted.


This is just what I was thinking. He isn't home schooled full time so surely this would be the same as a child only attending school half days so they would be in EYFS numbers until the 31st August after their 5th Birthday.

Seems odd he is with a cm part time 3 days a week if he should be being home educated.

keeks
26-11-2011, 05:52 PM
Thanks ladies for your replies! Interesting, I think I need to call Ofsted for clarification.

Home education doesn't have to take place between 9 and 3 on weekdays. This mum knows what she is doing and belongs to home education groups to ensure he also gets the experience of learning in a group.

Also, I am a teacher. I do things with him here too. Even if I wasn't a teacher, childminders all deliver the EYFS. And as far as I know Reception year is optional, so he can't be the only child in this situation?

If he was my own child and I home schooled him, I don't think he would count as an under 5 until he was 18 and moved out? :laughing:

xx

Mouse
26-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Thanks ladies for your replies! Interesting, I think I need to call Ofsted for clarification.

Home education doesn't have to take place between 9 and 3 on weekdays. This mum knows what she is doing and belongs to home education groups to ensure he also gets the experience of learning in a group.

Also, I am a teacher. I do things with him here too. Even if I wasn't a teacher, childminders all deliver the EYFS. And as far as I know Reception year is optional, so he can't be the only child in this situation?

If he was my own child and I home schooled him, I don't think he would count as an under 5 until he was 18 and moved out? :laughing:

xx

As a childminder, I think the idea of being able to count 4 & 5 years olds as being out of your EYFS numbers is because they are not with you during the day (generally). In this case, this child would be with you during the daytime, so I don't think he will count as a rising 5.

This is what the Ofsted factsheet says about the number of children you can care for:

Caring for children aged four and five who are present only before and/or after a normal school day and in school holidays If you care for children aged four and five who are present only before and/or after a normal school day and in school holidays you may count them as older than the early years age group. This allows you to have extra children in the early years age group but no more than six children in total.


I don't think your mindee will count as a rising 5 as he isn't only with you before & after "normal" school hours & during holidays.

moggy
26-11-2011, 08:25 PM
Definitely call Ofsted to confirm- I could only have my own 4yo out of my numbers once he was 'out of the house' at full-time, 10 sessions a week, of school. He did part time for a while when he started and Ofsted would not update my certificate until he was actually out 5 whole days every week. The fact that this child is full-time HE does not count as being 'out at school'.

keeks
11-12-2011, 10:09 AM
Just thought it might be useful for others to know what Ofsted said. It is just like some of you pointed out, they count as under fives until August after they turn 5 unless they are in full time education.

xx

onceinabluemoon
11-12-2011, 03:14 PM
Just thought it might be useful for others to know what Ofsted said. It is just like some of you pointed out, they count as under fives until August after they turn 5 unless they are in full time education.

xx

So... is this full time education at school or full time education anywhere? Just wondering because if its just at school then ofsted are discriminating against a minority group - something they'd blow a fuse about if we did.

keeks
11-12-2011, 03:23 PM
So... is this full time education at school or full time education anywhere? Just wondering because if its just at school then ofsted are discriminating against a minority group - something they'd blow a fuse about if we did.

This was sort of what I was thinking... I understand the idea that we only care for schoolies for a few hours in the afternoon, but if we are "capable" to care for them between 3 and 6, and for 6 weeks during the summer, what is the difference really? But that was the answer I got when I explained the situation.

This child is with me 17 hours per week and is turning 5 in a couple of weeks. I have got another child who is in full time school, is 4 1/2, and who is with me for 12 hours per week but is looking at 18 hours after Christmas. He is an over 5 and this child is an under 5.

Not that it matters that much, I simply count him in my under 5's, but there was one morning a mum wanted to increase a younger child's hours by 3 h, and I can't do that without a variation.

xx

jane5
11-12-2011, 03:57 PM
I had a 5 year old that had been taken out of full time education and was not having 10 sessions of education per week within Monday to Friday.

Ofsted said that if he was having some of those sessions over the weekend they would count towards the 10 sessions so if the mum says that she home schools him on a Saturday and Sunday these would count as 4 of the 10 sessions and he would count as a rising 5.

Hebs
11-12-2011, 04:47 PM
i thought rising 5's was for 4 year ols in full time school??

as mindee IS 5 then surely they should count in the 5-8 year range regardless of where they are being educated?
otherwise as they have a clause for rising 5's they need one for home educated children!

kindredspirits
11-12-2011, 05:04 PM
I asked Ofsted to clarify this for my own son and they told me that he would be in my under 5's numbers until the AUGUST after he turns 5 (despite being 5 in Feb). I would imagine it would be the same for mindees.

Mouse
11-12-2011, 06:54 PM
i thought rising 5's was for 4 year ols in full time school??

as mindee IS 5 then surely they should count in the 5-8 year range regardless of where they are being educated?
otherwise as they have a clause for rising 5's they need one for home educated children!

Children are in the EY age range until the August after their 5th birthday. The clause is for 4 or 5yr old children who are in full time eductaion. Just because they reach 5 you can't assume you can count them as being out of the Ey range.
The confusion comes because people think the age groups are 0-5 and 5-8. They're not. They're birth to 31st August after the 5th birthday, then 1st Sept after the 5th birthday until 8.

A 5yr old is still in the EY age range until the August, but for the purpose of ratios may be counted as being out of the age range if they only attend the setting before & after a normal school day and in the holidays.