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View Full Version : Nurseries are more stimulating than childminders - OFSTED



Cariad
23-11-2011, 12:44 PM
censored: Just seen this, I'm sure we all have something to say about it!


http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/general-coffeehouse-chat-514/news-current-affairs-topical-discussion-12/680949-nurseries-more-likely-stimulate-children-than-childminders.html#post6938144

blue bear
23-11-2011, 02:10 PM
Wonder where the extract came from and in what context it was written? It's obviously been posted to get a reaction

Pipsqueak
23-11-2011, 02:15 PM
Where does the rating of 'excellent' come into Ofsted - never heard of that grading for us!!

Its a crock of poop anyway

lolli_pop243
23-11-2011, 02:40 PM
Wonder where the extract came from and in what context it was written? It's obviously been posted to get a reaction

OFSTED released their annual report 2010/11 on the 22nd November. I have tried to look on google about it, and can only find the Times article about it. Been trying to attach a link to it, but my computer at work has gone mad. Will keep trying.

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/news/raising-ambition-and-tackling-failure-annual-report-of-her-majestys-chief-inspector-of-education-chi

You need to click on one of the links at the bottom of this page.

JCrakers
23-11-2011, 02:42 PM
Ugh...I hate statistics...lol

Looks like an uproar waiting to happen :D

mandy moo
23-11-2011, 02:56 PM
The link only takes me to the 'suscribe' page, wont let me read any article :(

mandy moo
23-11-2011, 02:59 PM
Wonder where the extract came from and in what context it was written? It's obviously been posted to get a reaction


Now why doesnt that suprise me, I dont go on netmums much once in a blue moon, but from the few post I have read there are quite a few who do seem to dislike childminders over there.

QualityCare
23-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Go to ofsted home page, sub heading about us, the full report book is there, down load the early years childrens centres section and the whole page is there.

Penny1959
23-11-2011, 03:14 PM
Havenot found report yet but this is the link to the 2010 - 2011 sats

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/official-statistics-early-years-and-childcare-registered-providers-inspections-and-outcomes


Penny :)

Penny1959
23-11-2011, 03:18 PM
Try this for link to report
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/annualreport1011



Not read yet!


Penny :)

Pipsqueak
23-11-2011, 04:36 PM
Penny - this is where NCMA NEED to come out with guns blazing and defend us and reeducate not just the public but Netmums and even Ofsted.

Its appalling that our representative body does NOTHING to step in publicly and in a big way to defend us. This is what gets my back up about NCMA.... they SAY they represent us and they do in many ways but this sort of situation is equally important.

Perhaps we should all email NCMA customer support and request that they start defending us....... standing together we can make NCMA hear us surely

rickysmiths
23-11-2011, 04:45 PM
Pip have you read the Report? I don't think it is actually anything like as negative as Netmums would have us believe. Let Netmums shoot themselves in the foot for the biased Forum they are. We are bigger than them.

Pipsqueak
23-11-2011, 05:40 PM
Pip have you read the Report? I don't think it is actually anything like as negative as Netmums would have us believe. Let Netmums shoot themselves in the foot for the biased Forum they are. We are bigger than them.

yes I have read it and I agree, its not as cut and dried. I still think this is where NCMA need to be getting the information out there to counteract negativity like this though - basically sell us not allow us to be sold short.

Netmums a biased forum... never!!! lol I still think they have great entertainment value just purely for the windup merchant i often can be:D I love reading the frankly 'odd' views because it makes me feel better about myself a lot of the time lol

rickysmiths
23-11-2011, 07:09 PM
I have just been and checked Netmums and found this refreshing post so I thought I would copy it on here.

speaking as an experienced nursery teacher and nursery inspector, it is impossible to respond to the individual needs that an under three has in the group situation of a nursery. you may think the ratios are good, but by the time breakks, housekeeping chores, paperwork and staff sickness are taken in to account the ratios are not good. consistency of career and meeting individual needs are the most important things, and due to long working hours and low pay there is often a high staff turn over in nurseries. every study i am aware of points to the fact that nursery care for the under threes is not good for their social, emotional or language development. obviously the government wants us to place our children in institutions so these studies are not well published.

A good friend of mine, secondary head, ofsted inspector of many years, and sitting on various high level eucation comitees trained as a nursery inspector to widen his understanding of eduacation. he was so horrified by what he found he refused to inspect nurseries.

Makes interesting reading.

JCrakers
23-11-2011, 07:15 PM
The problem with statements like this is that a good percent of parents that read it will take it on board and believe it :angry:

rickysmiths
23-11-2011, 07:21 PM
But that statement is actually in favour of Childminders for the under threes isn't that good?

JCrakers
23-11-2011, 07:36 PM
But that statement is actually in favour of Childminders for the under threes isn't that good?

Sorry, I meant the statement that was started at the top. I think by the time I had wrote my bit, you had posted your post.

Was watchin tv whilst typing so a bit slow:D

Playmate
23-11-2011, 07:50 PM
I have just been and checked Netmums and found this refreshing post so I thought I would copy it on here.

speaking as an experienced nursery teacher and nursery inspector, it is impossible to respond to the individual needs that an under three has in the group situation of a nursery. you may think the ratios are good, but by the time breakks, housekeeping chores, paperwork and staff sickness are taken in to account the ratios are not good. consistency of career and meeting individual needs are the most important things, and due to long working hours and low pay there is often a high staff turn over in nurseries. every study i am aware of points to the fact that nursery care for the under threes is not good for their social, emotional or language development. obviously the government wants us to place our children in institutions so these studies are not well published.

A good friend of mine, secondary head, ofsted inspector of many years, and sitting on various high level eucation comitees trained as a nursery inspector to widen his understanding of eduacation. he was so horrified by what he found he refused to inspect nurseries.

Makes interesting reading.

Very refreshing :D

Playmate
23-11-2011, 07:52 PM
Ok, email has been sent straight to the public affairs officer at NCMA and Mick will back this with a phone call tomorrow morning. Mind you I think the phone may ring here first ;)

Penny1959
24-11-2011, 07:13 AM
Pipsqueak - yes you are right NCMA need to respond - they will but it will be a nice little press statement.

I have actually now had response from various people at NCMA - whichh show they are taking things members say more seriously - ie with reguard to things I have hightlighted to them (will post about this elsewhere later)

Playmate / Blueboy - go for it - I will follow uo this with my own email as I think more than one person telling them has more impact

AND NCMA members - do email them on feedback@************* - the more members who tell them they are a) aware of this and b) wanting NCMA to do something about it - the more they have to take notice. (Mention my name if you want to and the posts on here - as I have told them that forums like this are the way to get information passed on)

Rickysmiths - very refreshing comments that you copied from Netmums - trouble is I think is that some only remember the negative remarks.

Non NCMA members - post back on Netmums.

Plus (sorry I can't help mentioning it) MM will do nothing about this (they are a good insurance company but they are not a member led organisation ) and although NCMA do need a kick up the backside to respond quicker and more effectively - they do respond and their press release although won't help with comments on Netmums - it will be picked up by the press and put the positive side of things (as mentioned in Ofsted report). Just ask yourselves if others were not members of NCMA (and therefore there was not an NCMA) just who would speak up for childminders at all? Remember you can keep your insurance with MMbut can also be a member of NCMA - you don't have to have your insurance with NCMA. And at about £1.30 per week for membership - I would say that is a small price to pay to be a member of an organisation that does represent it members (and with the revised EYFS, changes with Ofsted - again, LA now facing round 2 of budget cuts - now is a very good time to become a member and to actively support NCMA in speaking up for us) Sorry I know I am on my soap box - but it seems to me from my reseach questionnaire that many are not happy with NCMA because of the insurance side of things - and that everyone needs to consider the work NCMA does in speaking on members behalf within government - £1.30 a week is not much


Penny :)

Anon8319
24-11-2011, 01:16 PM
The excerpt from the original report, that one netmum has posted, is going to lead people astray. It might be a fact that more nurseries are outstanding and good than childminders, but that does not equate to nurseries being better for children or more stimulating. What I am trying to say is that an outstanding childminder would be just as stimulating as an outstanding nursery - or could be! They haven't assessed childminders versus nurseries, just used stats to say that more nurseries are good/outstanding - there may be a lot of satisfactory or below childminders, but that should not reflect on all those childminders who are as good as a nursery (and better)!

Blue Boy
24-11-2011, 04:53 PM
Just to let everyone know (both NCMA & Non NCMA members) that I have spoken to NCMA this afternoon at around 2:30 and have been advised that the draft statement has been written and will be sent out to both The Times & NetMums regarding this matter. I do not know the contents as yet but all volunteers will be forwarded a copy of the reply shortly.
Once again this highlights the benefits of being an NCMA member in that we have an association who will speak on our behalfs and have the power to get their voice heard. Without their backing childminders will have to put up with rubbish like this and then potentially lose business as parents will not know the true facts.

Penny1959
24-11-2011, 11:25 PM
Just to let everyone know (both NCMA & Non NCMA members) that I have spoken to NCMA this afternoon at around 2:30 and have been advised that the draft statement has been written and will be sent out to both The Times & NetMums regarding this matter. I do not know the contents as yet but all volunteers will be forwarded a copy of the reply shortly.
Once again this highlights the benefits of being an NCMA member in that we have an association who will speak on our behalfs and have the power to get their voice heard. Without their backing childminders will have to put up with rubbish like this and then potentially lose business as parents will not know the true facts.

Been a busy day - and only just finished work - so only just catching up on this
Thank you to Blueboy and others who contacted NCMA about this (and I did send my email) NCMA have been quick to react on this one as we have to remember their response has to be based on facts and from evidence provided in the same Ofsted report.

As Blueboy has mentioned NCMA are keeping key volunteers informed - and all key volunteers have now had email informing them of all the work NCMA have put into this today - and also to say that thier official response will be approved tomorrow morning and key volunteers will be sent a copy of that response.

As Blueboy has said without NCMA no one would be speaking up for childminders - that is all childminders not just NCMA childminders - and I for one am glad that I pay a membership fee to NCMA to help fund the work that NCMA does on our behalf.

Penny :)

christine e
25-11-2011, 07:02 AM
Just read my email from NCMA which informs me that their statement to the press has been prepared and is awaiting final approval this morning

Cx

EmmaReed84
25-11-2011, 07:48 AM
Say I am totally wrong but IMO parents choose childminders because it is a home from home evironment. We are not teachers, children have almost 12 years at school and from the age of 4 they have to spend 5 days of the week learning, right up to 16/17. I think that children should be free to play before they reach that stage and not pushed, assessed, observed, analysed at every possible opportunity. Yes "encourage" children and teach them new things, but as a childminder I feel so under pressure to get it perfect I do 13 hour days 10 of which I am actually minding. I have my first grading coming up and I have only actually been minding since Aug and during that time I have been getting to know the children, making sure they are safe and adapting risk assessment as I see how the children play etc. I have done their folders and observations, linked it to EYFS however I still feel like it is not going to be good enough. All this nit picking is WAY ott.

Ripeberry
25-11-2011, 08:02 AM
Say I am totally wrong but IMO parents choose childminders because it is a home from home evironment. We are not teachers, children have almost 12 years at school and from the age of 4 they have to spend 5 days of the week learning, right up to 16/17. I think that children should be free to play before they reach that stage and not pushed, assessed, observed, analysed at every possible opportunity. Yes "encourage" children and teach them new things, but as a childminder I feel so under pressure to get it perfect I do 13 hour days 10 of which I am actually minding. I have my first grading coming up and I have only actually been minding since Aug and during that time I have been getting to know the children, making sure they are safe and adapting risk assessment as I see how the children play etc. I have done their folders and observations, linked it to EYFS however I still feel like it is not going to be good enough. All this nit picking is WAY ott.

Well said :thumbsup:

Penny1959
25-11-2011, 12:44 PM
Say I am totally wrong but IMO parents choose childminders because it is a home from home evironment. We are not teachers, children have almost 12 years at school and from the age of 4 they have to spend 5 days of the week learning, right up to 16/17. I think that children should be free to play before they reach that stage and not pushed, assessed, observed, analysed at every possible opportunity. Yes "encourage" children and teach them new things, but as a childminder I feel so under pressure to get it perfect I do 13 hour days 10 of which I am actually minding. I have my first grading coming up and I have only actually been minding since Aug and during that time I have been getting to know the children, making sure they are safe and adapting risk assessment as I see how the children play etc. I have done their folders and observations, linked it to EYFS however I still feel like it is not going to be good enough. All this nit picking is WAY ott.

I am not sure I understand the term nit picking in the context of this thread. My understanding is it is to do with some posting on netmums part of the Ofsted report without putting all the facts.

It is because it is being suggested that a child has to be in a nursery type environment to do well that has made me react - I am not a nursery, I do not run my setting like a nursery - if I wanted a nursery I would work in one or own one.

Therefore I am cross that some that are suggesting that children do less well in a childminding setting - and more importantly are only using a very small part of the Ofsted report to further their anti childminder posts.

I have read the report - it is not anti childminding and there is a lot of very positive information in the report.

This is wht I have contacted NCMA to urge them to respond quickly to the negative comments that could impact on our profession.

As I said - I don't understand your term nit picking - and maybe I have misunderstood the point you were trying to make.

Penny :)

Blue Boy
25-11-2011, 01:07 PM
Just to let everyone know I received an email this morning from Sue Davis the Chair of NCMA advising that they are taking this issue very seriuously and that she and both Liz Bayram & Catherine Farrell the Chief Executives are looking into the statement that will be issued very soon.

Pipsqueak
25-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Just read my email from NCMA which informs me that their statement to the press has been prepared and is awaiting final approval this morning

Cx

Ditto:thumbsup:

Pipsqueak
25-11-2011, 01:15 PM
Say I am totally wrong but IMO parents choose childminders because it is a home from home evironment. We are not teachers, children have almost 12 years at school and from the age of 4 they have to spend 5 days of the week learning, right up to 16/17. I think that children should be free to play before they reach that stage and not pushed, assessed, observed, analysed at every possible opportunity. Yes "encourage" children and teach them new things, but as a childminder I feel so under pressure to get it perfect I do 13 hour days 10 of which I am actually minding. I have my first grading coming up and I have only actually been minding since Aug and during that time I have been getting to know the children, making sure they are safe and adapting risk assessment as I see how the children play etc. I have done their folders and observations, linked it to EYFS however I still feel like it is not going to be good enough. All this nit picking is WAY ott.

But Emma - next to parents we are a primary 'teaching' source. We can do it just as well as nursery - if not better. Think on.. once upon a time ALL children stopped home for the first five years with mum (or a very close family member) and where did we do the BEST learning - at home with mum. the Early Years are SO important and there should be more emphasis upon them - currently they are dismissed and undervalued.

I think as you go through the years you learn to take all the 'legislation' in your stride and incorporate it into what you do without a good percentage of the stress. It really does depend on how you see the EYFS (or your national framework) I suppose

Playmate
25-11-2011, 01:51 PM
But Emma - next to parents we are a primary 'teaching' source. We can do it just as well as nursery - if not better. Think on.. once upon a time ALL children stopped home for the first five years with mum (or a very close family member) and where did we do the BEST learning - at home with mum. the Early Years are SO important and there should be more emphasis upon them - currently they are dismissed and undervalued.

I think as you go through the years you learn to take all the 'legislation' in your stride and incorporate it into what you do without a good percentage of the stress. It really does depend on how you see the EYFS (or your national framework) I suppose

so true Pip :thumbsup:

The Juggler
25-11-2011, 01:58 PM
Say I am totally wrong but IMO parents choose childminders because it is a home from home evironment. We are not teachers, children have almost 12 years at school and from the age of 4 they have to spend 5 days of the week learning, right up to 16/17. I think that children should be free to play before they reach that stage and not pushed, assessed, observed, analysed at every possible opportunity. Yes "encourage" children and teach them new things, but as a childminder I feel so under pressure to get it perfect I do 13 hour days 10 of which I am actually minding. I have my first grading coming up and I have only actually been minding since Aug and during that time I have been getting to know the children, making sure they are safe and adapting risk assessment as I see how the children play etc. I have done their folders and observations, linked it to EYFS however I still feel like it is not going to be good enough. All this nit picking is WAY ott.

IMO some nurseries are too stimulating i.e. too much going on ALL day with not enough 'down' time. :panic: sometimes kids just need to sit on the sofa for a cuddle or a story not be whizzing from activity to activity or resource to resource.

EmmaReed84
25-11-2011, 02:05 PM
In the term nit picking I dont mean, this thread, or peoples oninions. I mean some ofsted inspectors who take it to the extreme. Parhaps I am wrong I have just read peoples posts about their inspection and just think sometime they nit pick for things.

I am all for kids leaning, and observing how they do things and move forward etc. Dont get me wrong I did it with my own two and will continue with any other children I care for. I suppose I am just the sort of person who doesnt like to feel so restricted and told what do to, how to do and when to do it (ask the husband lol). I do activities with the kids and find myself thinking of taking pics and what I can write up and how I will link it, rather just enjoy being a part it and enjoying seeing the children. Perhaps it is because I am just finding my feet and maybe it all becomes 2nd nature but for me it just feels a bit too much like a school rather than a caring homely environment.

stardust
25-11-2011, 08:51 PM
I did go off on one on the netmums comment. I couldn't help it i provide a more stable and stimulating environment that the 2 nursery's i worked in and the many i temped at. The thing is at inspection times nursery's can put on a show and have a team of staff to ensure all the paperwork is in order.

I feel that if ofsted inspectors went into a nursery as a temp there would be quite a few closed down as they would see the real nursery environment not just the 'ofsted invented one' so to speak.