Opinions please on this problem

[appleblossom]

I have a new child just started in my care and would like to ask you all how you would deal with this problem regarding meals.

Child is 13 months old. He arrives at approx. 10.30am. He wakes at 9.30am, has breakfast then Mum brings him. he sleeps for 2 hours in the afternoon.

The problem is, Mum wants me to give him two cooked meals. She collects him at 5pm. It was meant to be 4.30pm and she originally said she wanted him to have tea at 4pm so he had it before she collected at 4.30pm. I explained there was no way he was going to eat a cooked meal at 4pm as it was too soon after his lunch for another cooked meal. So she is now going to collect him at 5pm so he can have tea at 4.30pm. He has to have the type of food you can spoon feed him with as if you give him finger foods he just throws them on the floor. The two little girls I look after both did BLW and just fed themselves with everything except yoghurt which they were spoon fed. That was from 11 months old for them.

He has been with me for 2 days so far and was here for six and a half hours each day. The question is do you think it reasonable to expect him to eat two main meals and have a two hour nap in that time?

[The Juggler]

if he's having lunch at 1200 i think 4.30 might be a little early for tea - although I used to feed mindees at 4.45 every day to be finished for 5.15.

I have to give a snack to little mindees now at 4.30 so they keep going until their 6pm dinners at home.

I think it depends on how good an eater he is. could you suggest to mum a toast/fruit snack and dinner at home?

[Tealady]

Depends what time you do lunch and what time he is supposed to nap?

Say lunch was at 12.00 If you are spoon feeding then I find that quicker than children feeding themselves so you could have him in bed at 12.30. He would then sleep until 2.30 and then he'd have two hours before tea at 4.30. The 4.30 meal could always be smaller.

However how does that fit in with your other mindees. I tell parents what my meal times are but would tweek them 15 mins either way for a littlie but all children would still eat together.

[appleblossom]

if he's having lunch at 1200 i think 4.30 might be a little early for tea - although I used to feed mindees at 4.45 every day to be finished for 5.15.

I have to give a snack to little mindees now at 4.30 so they keep going until their 6pm dinners at home.

I think it depends on how good an eater he is. could you suggest to mum a toast/fruit snack and dinner at home?

As I don't get in from toddler group until 11.30am (it was 12 noon when I did a pre school collection) lunch is only just ready at 12 (later if anyone needs a nappy change). He has to be woken at 9.30am to get ready to come here. As he has breakfast between 9.30am and 10am he isn't even ready for lunch until 1pm at the earliest. So to then get him to eat tea at 4.30pm is not going to work.

It felt impossible to me just thinking about it. Even more so now I've written it down.

With regard to giving him a snack and him having a meal at home later, Mum is adamant that he must have his tea before she collects, which is why she has moved collection time from 4.30pm to 5pm. He didn't have lunch until 1.15pm today as he was asleep before then. So I gave him some cheese cubes, some quartered grapes and some toast at 4pm. He threw it on the floor as he just wasn't hungry. Mum wasn't happy when I told her he hadn't had a proper meal for tea and spent a lot of time talking to me about how I could fit the meal in.

His Dad is working away and from what mum says it sounds like she doesn't bother cooking a full meal in the evening, so it's easier if her child has his tea here so she doesn't have to cook for him if she isn't making much for herself. She has said she sometimes gives him jars of commercial food. I don't really want to start that as I haven't used jars of baby food for any of my own or the minded children in 24 years.

[The Juggler]

i suspect he is throwing his food as he just isn't hungry :(

i would have a chat with mum and say this will only work if he has his breakfast earlier. he'd need breakfast about 8am to be ready for 12pm lunch. then he might just be able to have a small tea at 4.30.

[appleblossom]

Depends what time you do lunch and what time he is supposed to nap?

Say lunch was at 12.00 If you are spoon feeding then I find that quicker than children feeding themselves so you could have him in bed at 12.30. He would then sleep until 2.30 and then he'd have two hours before tea at 4.30. The 4.30 meal could always be smaller.

However how does that fit in with your other mindees. I tell parents what my meal times are but would tweek them 15 mins either way for a littlie but all children would still eat together.

Today he napped before lunch as he was so tired. He arrived at 10.30am having been woken by his Mum at 9.30am. He was falling asleep at 12 noon so not in any state to eat lunch. He had breakfast at 9.45am so would not be ready to eat at noon anyway.

I have two other mindees, both girls, aged 2 and a half. They have lunch at 12.15pm. Both feed themselves completely. Neither has a nap in the afternoon. We have a small snack at 3.30pm. One of the girls goes home at 4.30pm. The other has tea with us at 5.30pm then is collected at 6pm.

I could give the little boy his tea at 3.30pm when the others have their snack.
If he was eating lunch at noon he may just about be able to eat a small meal then. It would have to be something frozen and reheated then however as I couldn't cook just for him at that time. He would possibly need something else later at home though if he had tea so early, which may defeat his Mum's aim of getting him to have tea early so she doesn't need to do it.

I guess I will have to sit down with her again and discuss the difficulties and see what she says.

[blue bear]

I take it your meals are charged in your price? Is mum trying to get her full value for money do you think?
Don't know if this would work for you but could you get mum to send an empty pot each day and you put his tea in to take hone.
I can't see how lo is going to eat a full meal at 1.30 and 4.30, what sbout a snack type lunch and a cooked meal at 4.30? Definetly sone sort of compromise needed.

[appleblossom]

i suspect he is throwing his food as he just isn't hungry :(

i would have a chat with mum and say this will only work if he has his breakfast earlier. he'd need breakfast about 8am to be ready for 12pm lunch. then he might just be able to have a small tea at 4.30.

You are right, just what I have been thinking. But Mum was so shocked that I couldn't fit two cooked meals into his 6 and a half hour attendance that I was beginning to think I was missing something and getting it wrong.

[The Juggler]

You are right, just what I have been thinking. But Mum was so shocked that I couldn't fit two cooked meals into his 6 and a half hour attendance that I was beginning to think I was missing something and getting it wrong.

i think so hon. either she's going to have to do an early breakfast for him or a later tea :(

does he not wake until 0930 or is he waking early having a bottle and going back to sleep. If it's the latter then maybe suggest that when he wakes early he has 1/2 bottle and the rest on his breakfast?

[Maza]

I serve lunch at 12 and tea at 5. If children are hear at those times they have their meals. If they leave earlier/arrive later then they are not offered the meals. It becomes too tricky if you agree to shift mealtimes to try and accomodate people. If he's not hungry then he won't eat it and she'll have to cook him something at home or he'll be waking in the night!

[appleblossom]

I take it your meals are charged in your price? Is mum trying to get her full value for money do you think?
Don't know if this would work for you but could you get mum to send an empty pot each day and you put his tea in to take hone.
I can't see how lo is going to eat a full meal at 1.30 and 4.30, what sbout a snack type lunch and a cooked meal at 4.30? Definetly sone sort of compromise needed.

I charge hourly and include lunch and snacks in my charge. I charge extra for breakfast and tea as most children I have minded have only had lunch with me and it keeps the cost down for most parents if I do this as I then keep my hourly rate very low compared to others in the area. It also seems unfair to charge the same for a child who only has lunch with me as one who has three meals. However I don't charge extra for meals until a child is over 18 months so this parent is not paying extra for the evening meal.

The snack lunch may work as it could be given to him after his nap if he is too tired to eat when everyone else is having lunch. He could take his tea home if he hasn't had it as it would have to be something reheated anyway, as I wouldn't be cooking tea at 4pm.

Another chat with Mum I think.

[muffins]

I serve breakfast at 8 for those who need it (snack style for those who didn't eat have time for enough at home), then lunch between 12 & 1, for which I ask parents to send a packed lunch. I then cook an evening meal to be served at 5. Thats it no change for anyone unless its needed for a very special reason! All mindees eat together which makes for a family style meal, they all eat well & I feel this is the reason why. Even my own DD eats much better when I have a table full of mindees, so does a mindee who I'm told won't even eat a mouthfull of a hot meal at home!

I do have one question for you, if this child is not getting up till 9.30, what time do they goto bed?

[Maza]

I was also wondering why he is not up until 9.30!

[appleblossom]

i think so hon. either she's going to have to do an early breakfast for him or a later tea :(

does he not wake until 0930 or is he waking early having a bottle and going back to sleep. If it's the latter then maybe suggest that when he wakes early he has 1/2 bottle and the rest on his breakfast?

He has only done two full days here, last Thursday and today. Both times he was awoken at 9.30am and had breakfast between then and leaving home for a five minute walk to mine, arriving at 10.30am. The toddler groups are closed this week but when they reopen next week I am going to be going out at 9.15am on two of his 4 days here. This is going to create another problem as one of the Groups is too far from his Grandma's for her to walk to and she will be dropping him off (she doesn't drive). I don't know if he wakes earlier than 9.30am but then goes back to sleep; another thing to ask Mum. Mum is at university but not going in every day and not always having to be in early. So I think she has a lie in and so LO doesn't get woken until after she gets up.

[Anon8319]

The nursery my daughter goes to (she is 18 months) and all nurseries we looked at, give lunch at around midday and tea at around 430. I personally prefer to give tea at about 530 when she's here because she goes to bed between 7 and 730 and I don't want her to go hungry, so she always has a snack when she comes home from nursery.

I don't think 430 is too early if lunch is at 12, but I don't think it's ideal and nurseries do it like they do because of what you are finding yourself - parents want to collect at between 5 and 6, but don't want to have to feed tea themselves!

I would say to just go with what her wishes are - if she wants you to give tea and then collect at 5, do that. Tell her your feelings on it if you think it will matter, but then do as she wishes because I think it is her place to be concerned if anything.

[appleblossom]

The nursery my daughter goes to (she is 18 months) and all nurseries we looked at, give lunch at around midday and tea at around 430. I personally prefer to give tea at about 530 when she's here because she goes to bed between 7 and 730 and I don't want her to go hungry, so she always has a snack when she comes home from nursery.

I don't think 430 is too early if lunch is at 12, but I don't think it's ideal and nurseries do it like they do because of what you are finding yourself - parents want to collect at between 5 and 6, but don't want to have to feed tea themselves!

I would say to just go with what her wishes are - if she wants you to give tea and then collect at 5, do that. Tell her your feelings on it if you think it will matter, but then do as she wishes because I think it is her place to be concerned if anything.

I have always gone along with parents' wishes and agree that it is her concern and her decision as to whether he is getting his meals.

However she is genuinely cross that he has not had two cooked meals in his 6 and a half hours here; and I am genuinely puzzled as to how to fit it all in. As he has breakfast so late he is not hungry at all at 12 noon, not even for a snack lunch. Then he needs his nap very soon after 12 and is too tired to eat. if he has lunch much after noon he cannot possibly be ready for tea at 4.30pm.

The real issue is his late start to the day and subsequent late breakfast. Also the fact that anything that is not spooned into his mouth is not eaten, ruling out finger foods and usual snack type meals.

I could of course, as you suggest, just give him the meals she wants me to give him and ignore that fact that he possibly will eat very little of them. It would simply mean she will have to feed him in the evening, which will then be her business.

Edit: Thanks to everyone for your helpful input. Some good ideas and at least I'm not alone in thinking it odd for a child of his age to have to be woken up at 9.30am

[jane5]

I have just started a lo 13 months and he arrives at 1 and leaves at 5 and mum wants me to feed 2 cooked meals :rolleyes:

I have said we will see how things go as I dont think it will work out like this but I dont want to just refuse to do as mum asks.

I have also said that as lo is so young, things change so much in a couple of months and we can review the situation every month or so.

I think in my situation mum wants me to feed 2 meals as it will make her life easier (which is fair enough) and also she wants to remain in control as she knows her boy best.

I am taking baby steps with her :thumbsup:

[appleblossom]

Jane,
I think I am going to have to do something similar. But this Mum wants to know exactly what he has had and was annoyed today because he hadn't had his tea when she arrived at 4.50pm. He had eaten a big lunch though and wasn't hungry at 4.30pm.

[jane5]

I would give him his lunch at 12 as asked and if he only eats a small amount he may be ready for his tea at 4.30.
I would also give him his tea at 4.30 and if he doesnt eat it, so be it. You have done as mum has asked so she can not be angry with you.
I would just remind her that things change all the time when they are that young.

I would also give him finger foods at each meal (very small amount such as a crust of bread) because he will watch the other lo's and will soon pick up what to do with them.

I hope you get this sorted :rolleyes:

[appleblossom]

Thanks Jane,
I'll try that. The thing is the others only have finger foods at their snack times (10.00am and 3.30pm). This LO won't be here at morning snack time and if I give him a snack with them at 3.30pm he won't eat any tea. But I will give him his lunch at 12 and tea at 4.30 as this is what Mum has requested. Then see how it goes.

[little chickee]

Mum does seem to want an easy life.

I would give the 2 meals but make the lunch a good sized portion and a smaller tea. Like you say he will miss morning snack so should be ready for lunch at whatever time you decide to serve it. you will soon see how much he will manage to eat and can adjust the amount you prepare accordingly.

No afternoon snack and then a small cooked tea at say 4.30pm. you could batch cook portions or make a small amount extra for your own tea and give him that the next day - mashed up if need be.

Then Mum could give him pudding later on at home if he needs it.

[flutterbies]

I was also wondering why he is not up until 9.30!

I was also wondering the same thing... maybe he's not a good sleeper? I wonder if he is being given milk during the night or whether he is up late?

I've not had a child that would need to sleep and eat so much in my minded day no can't talk from experience here.

But I have had a child who started who wouldn't finger feed at all and even finger food would have to be held at the mouth by the carer (toast, melon, whatever). The child has at last grown out of this, but it took a few months of encouragement, including messy play so she got used to different textures on her hands.

[appleblossom]

Today I asked his Mum about his sleeping. Apparently he goes to sleep about 7pm and she wakes him at 9.30am. I still don't know why she doesn't wake him earlier than that. I mentioned he will have to be here earlier next week. She thinks he will wake earlier after the clocks change on Sunday. We will see how that goes.

With regard to his feeding: I gave him lunch at 12 noon as requested. He had about 3 or 4 spoonfuls then refused to eat any more. He was obviously not hungry. His Mum told me he has 4.5 oz of a 9oz bottle when she wakes him at 9.30am, then has the rest on cereal after he gets dressed. Then he has a bit of toast. He comes to me for 10.30am. So he has only finished eating at home at about 10.15am. This is why he won't eat lunch at 12 noon.

He was tired out and slept from 12.30pm until 2.45pm this afternoon. I had cooked tea whilst he was sleeping so it was ready. I gave it to him at 4.30pm and he ate quite a lot of it. This way he is only having two meals, unless he has something else later on at home. I suppose things may change after next week as his Dad is coming home so Mum will be cooking more. Until then I'll carry on as I did today. If he continues to have a late breakfast I 'll just offer a small portion at lunchtime then a larger meal at tea.

Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated.

[Helen79]

that's so much food to be cramming into his short day. I wish my kids would sleep that late and let me have a lie in :laughing:
I wouldn't give a meal at 4.30. we have set meal times and we'll have a snack if a child is hungry out of those hours. I would ask mum to provide the food for you for him. I only provide food once they're eating 'normal' food so any purees/jars are provided by parents.
I wouldn't cook him 2 meals a day, we have a snack lunch/jar from home if they're not onto finger food yet and a cooked meal at dinner time.
Mum might be cross about it but a nursery wouldn't feed 2 hot meals either at times to suit the parent, unless the parents brought it in.
Sounds like you're going out of your way doing extra cooking for the mum's sake not the child's if the child isn't actually hungry.

[Pipsqueak]

He is sleeping a heck of a lot! 7pm and having to be woken at 9.30 am... and then back asleep for a few hours during the day.....

he is also having a LOT of food..

personally I would not be feeding TWO cooked meals straight on top of his breakfast... it would be finger foods at 1 and then a tea at 4.30 - if mum doesn't like it then she can either provide the foods and you can return to her what he is not eating so she can see what is being wasted

[onceinabluemoon]

HI, I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if this has already been brought up.

The thing about all this which concerns me is that a 13 month old baby would have all his meals in 6 hours during the day (breakfast at 10am, lunch at 1(ish) and tea at 4pm) then has 18 hours with no food. 18 hours is an awful long time with no food for a child of that age in my humble opinion.