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snufflepuff
11-10-2011, 04:19 PM
Mindees Mum has just told me that she is probably going to have to give notice- she is at uni and has found out that her shifts while on placement will include 6am starts (she thought it would be 8am, mindee with me from 7am) and 9.30pm finishes (she thought it would be 7.30pm, mindee with me until 8.30pm) Mindee will go to her Grandmother instead and stay overnight- I have told her that i'd be willing to pick mindee up/ drop her off but she didn't seem very interested. This is her fourth week with me, but contracts were signed a few months ago. She is asking what happens with the deposit if she has given notice within the 4 week settling period.

Does the 4 week settling period start when contracts are signed or when the child actually starts attending? Do I have to give back the deposit?

I'm so angry. I really hope she hasn't done this just so she can claim childcare help though the uni and use it to pay Grandma!!!

Tealady
11-10-2011, 04:39 PM
Check your contract first but to my mind the four weeks settling in period starts on the first day the child attend your setting on contract hours. An arrangement can't "settle in" if its not up and running

mummyMia
11-10-2011, 06:14 PM
Sorry, I can't really help! I would like to know the answer to this question too. I would assume that if mum gives notice during the settling in period then the deposit has to be returned but I'm not sure.

When signing up my current mindee, I held her place open for a couple of months with just a 4 week deposit and no retainer. I didn't want to have to return the deposit under any circumstances so I removed the settling-in period from my contract. I would really like some clarity on this for future contracts!

rosebud
11-10-2011, 06:23 PM
The settling in period starts on on the first day of attendance. I have a settling in clause on my contracts saying that if I choose to end the contract in the settling in period I will return any money for hours not used (the deposit is also first months fees). However if parents choose to end it then they forfeit the remainder of the deposit. When they pay the deposit I give them a receipt which states that the deposit will be first months fees but if they cancel before the start day it is non-refundable. What does it say on your contracts? Do you use NCMA contracts? Could you ring them for some advice?

snufflepuff
11-10-2011, 06:28 PM
Thank you everyone- I use MM contracts so i'll try to find time to call them tomorrow. I'm so flippin' annoyed!

rickysmiths
11-10-2011, 07:55 PM
I use NCMA contracts and you mark on page one the dates of the 4 week settling in. My parents loose their deposit if they cancel the contract before it starts or they leave during the 4 week settling in period.

The Juggler
11-10-2011, 08:03 PM
sorry this has happened hon. as long as the deposit was non-refundable then you should be fine - check with mm.

this is why I don't have notice free settling in periods. I have settling in days before contract starts but I always feel that if something was not right that parents would still need time to find alternative care and I would need time to fill the place so 4 weeks notice applies from day 1 with me.:)

snufflepuff
11-10-2011, 08:06 PM
Right, I have had a good read through my paperwork. My policy on deposits and retainers states that deposits are non refundable. Mum has copies of all my policies and procedures and has signed to say she has read and understood them all.

Still not totally sure where I stand! Is a policy stating that deposits are non refundable enough? Or does it have to be written in the contract?

Lady Haha
11-10-2011, 08:47 PM
Maybe I'm confused, but surely we are supposed to give the deposit back at the end of care? It's only non refundable if monies are owed as it can be used as last months fees or if parent cancels contract before contract starts.

The settling in period is there for exactly this reason though isn't it? It gives either side a chance to get out of the contract without giving notice if it's not working out for any reason.

As far as I can see, annoying as it is, this mum hasn't actually done anything wrong. She paid her deposit thinking she would get it back when mindee left. She has given the required notice, which is none!, because she is in the settling in period.

She could have just told you it was 'due to a change in circumstances' as we so love to say here!

I think you should give her deposit back really:(

She won't be able to claim the money for you so she can pay Grandma as uni will write to you asking you what she will be paying you for the next six months and then again at the end of that time to make sure she did actually pay you it!

snufflepuff
11-10-2011, 09:04 PM
She won't be able to claim the money for you so she can pay Grandma as uni will write to you asking you what she will be paying you for the next six months and then again at the end of that time to make sure she did actually pay you it!

This is good to know, thanks.

I held that space for over three months, turning other work away- all for the sake of 4 weeks fees- and I now owe her the same amount back! So I've worked for free haven't I!

Time to give up minding I think.

snufflepuff
11-10-2011, 09:25 PM
Just looking at my contracts again- it says 'you or i may cancel this contract within the first 4 weeks by written notice, which can take immediate effect.'

Mindees first full day was 20th September. So to fulfill the above mum would have had to give me notice in writing today. She didn't even give verbal notice officially, just told me that she will probably need to give notice. So am I right in thinking that she actually has to give 4 weeks notice? Which of course the deposit will pay for?

The Juggler
11-10-2011, 09:26 PM
my understanding of a deposit is totally different. If I buy a car or book a holiday I pay a deposit. It's non refundable. if a parent paid me a deposit I would take it off first months fees unless they did not start or decided to leave in first month).

IMO if parent leaves in settling in period (even if notice free) deposit is non-refundable. But if CM decides to terminate deposit would be refundable.

snufflepuff
11-10-2011, 09:36 PM
IMO if parent leaves in settling in period (even if notice free) deposit is non-refundable. But if CM decides to terminate deposit would be refundable.

This is the way I see it too. There's no other circumstance where you would get a deposit back!

Lady Haha
12-10-2011, 09:29 AM
Now I'm really confused! (Doesnt take much!) If the deposit was to be used as first months fees, then no, of course you dont give it back :panic:

I was thinking in terms of say the deposit I paid on my rented house. I get that back when I move out as its not used as rent. A deposit on a holiday or car is part of the cost of that holiday or car, so you wouldn't get it back.

When this mum started did she just pay the months deposit or a months deposit AND a months fees as well? If she paid deposit AND fees, then I would give deposit back, but if the deposit WAS her fees, then I would obv keep it as I earned it!

Saying all this though, like you say, she needs to be giving you written notice today if she wants that deposit back and as it sounds like she doesn't actually know what she's doing yet, it would seem like you will get your four weeks notice and keep the deposit.:D

Still annoying when people mess you around though

mummyMia
12-10-2011, 09:43 AM
What does your contract actually say about the deposit? Does it say that it can be used as the first month's fees or for the last month's fees or something else?

If it is for the first month's fees then I definitely wouldn't give it back as you have worked for almost 4 weeks and earned it. If it is for the last month's fees (i.e to cover the 4 week notice period) and if mum has paid you seperately for the hours that you have already worked then you might be on shaky ground as there is no notice period.

I hope for your sake that you are able to keep it! Let us know what MM say:)

snufflepuff
12-10-2011, 10:05 AM
Can't get through to MM so i'll try again later.

She paid 4 weeks fees as a deposit when she signed the contract. This is to be held until contracts are terminated, which is what I have stated on the contracts. Fees are then due in advance so Septembers fees were paid on the last day of August and Octobers fees on the last day of September. (Fees for Sept were actually paid 3 weeks late because she was waiting for her finance to come through, but that's not important.)

So basically, because she has not given me written notice within the first 4 weeks, it can't be immediate termination, she has to give 4 weeks notice. So the deposit pays for that 4 week notice period, whether she uses it or not.

candy cat
12-10-2011, 03:12 PM
I do a childcare agreement form as well that highlights that deposit will not be refunded......not sure on legal side but if you booked a holiday and cancelled it because you couldn't afford to go anymore then would Thomas cook refund it.....don't think so!:rolleyes:

snufflepuff
12-10-2011, 04:40 PM
Parent phoned today to say that she will be bringing written notice tomorrow. I explained that she needs to give 4 weeks notice as it is too late to terminate with immediate effect- that period ended yesterday. I told her that the deposit will cover that 4 week notice period. I explained that as stated in my policy, deposits are non-refundable- that's just how deposits work.

She has obviously already paid for October in advance, which if she brings written notice tomorrow means that there's only 2 more weeks of the notice period to pay for (out of the deposit money.) Does this mean that I need to give her the remainder of the deposit back?

I'm feeling more positive today- she obviously never had any intention of using me long term, she just needed me to sign her childcare bursary forms and that was it. I don't want to work with someone like that and will not be part of her fraudulent activities. I will be calling the student finance department to make sure they know she is no longer using my services.

I'm so proud of myself for being so strong and assertive on the phone!

Chatterbox Childcare
12-10-2011, 04:55 PM
Parent phoned today to say that she will be bringing written notice tomorrow. I explained that she needs to give 4 weeks notice as it is too late to terminate with immediate effect- that period ended yesterday. I told her that the deposit will cover that 4 week notice period. I explained that as stated in my policy, deposits are non-refundable- that's just how deposits work.

She has obviously already paid for October in advance, which if she brings written notice tomorrow means that there's only 2 more weeks of the notice period to pay for (out of the deposit money.) Does this mean that I need to give her the remainder of the deposit back?

I'm feeling more positive today- she obviously never had any intention of using me long term, she just needed me to sign her childcare bursary forms and that was it. I don't want to work with someone like that and will not be part of her fraudulent activities. I will be calling the student finance department to make sure they know she is no longer using my services.

I'm so proud of myself for being so strong and assertive on the phone!

If she has paid you for all of October then you would have to give money back. If the notice period uses days in November you take the costs from the deposit money paid and refund the difference.

snufflepuff
12-10-2011, 08:24 PM
If she has paid you for all of October then you would have to give money back. If the notice period uses days in November you take the costs from the deposit money paid and refund the difference.

Thanks Debbie that's what I thought