wetting / water infection??

[Heaven Scent]

Hi me again - My full time 3 yr(at end of Dec 07) old girl mindee goes through phases of wetting herself. She was in pull ups when she came for her visits last September and mum sent a bag of them with her when she finally started on 22nd Oct with a note to say they were only for use on long car journeys - further down the note it said that she had recently had a cold and it had set her backward with the toilet training.

At first she regularly wet herself despite me putting her on the loo on a regular basis and trying to get her into the habbit of visiting the loo before we left the house and upon our return and again before and after each meal and snack I would also remind her regularly in between. Some days she wet herself so much that I ran out of all the spare pants mum sent and had to use the pull ups (they are not my favourite things - I have mixed feelings about them myself)

After a while I had her in a routine and she did really well and went home more times than not in the same clothes she arrived in - then she was away for 10 days at christmas and there I was back to square 1. When dad came to collect her on 7th Jan I told him she had been to the loo lots and still mananged to wet herself lots - next morning I had a message from mum (who was probably p***ed off with all the washing she was having to do after a long day at work - this is mum who would send the two in same clothes whether dirty or not for a week if she could get away with it) that perhaps I wasn't putting her on the loo enough so I kept a note for dad during the day of the times I put her on the loo or that she asked to use the loo and it came to 24 in total and she went every time she took a visit and still managed to wet herself twice. When Dad came in the evening I suggested that perhaps she may be having periodic mild water infections and that this is what is causing the wetting. Since then a pattern has developed where she is dry for about 3 weeks and then wetting herself several times a day and only just making it to the loo on time for a few days. Then everything returns to normal. She never seems phased or upset when she wets herself and just takes off her wet clothes and puts them in a bag and begins to wipe herself with a wet wipe - I then finish the wiping and put out clean clothes for her to put on. - I also get her to help with wiping up the floor. (I've always done this with children as I feel it can act as a deterrant and they usually give up the wetting - I don't talk to them throughout the process so they dont feel they are getting attention and being rewarded for the wetting.)

Each time she goes through this phase I suggest to the doctor that it may be an infection and he just poo poos the idea - I have told them this suggestion is based on experience of a friend of mine whose daughter showed the same habbit and eventually the mum took her to the doctor and she was diagnosed with a water infection and she was given anti-biotics the infection did recurr several more times but they weaned and eventually it was cured.

If anyone has any ideas on what might be causing this wetting pleas let me know - dad has told me that she wets herself at home too during these phases so I don't think it has anything to do with here in particular

She has juice with her breakfast and has water available all day but doesn't always drink it I give her milk for morning and afternoon snack and tea plus water with her dinner. Some days she drinks more than others but the quantity she drinks on a given day doesn't change whether she wets herself or not.

I try telling her that she will be smelly if she wets herself and no one will want to play with her and also tell her big girls don't wet themselves but only do this when it has gone on for a few days at first I generally ignore it and go through the changing and cleaning process in relative silence but not hostile. I even give her stickers for having dry days and making it to the loo before she wet herself - I think I've covered everything here - so any ideas would be most appreciated

[miffy]

I think you should ask parents to take her to the doctor to see if she has a water infection - until that is ruled out there is no point trying anything else because you don't know whether or not the child can help wetting herself.

miffy xx

[crazybones]

It isnt just a water infection that could cause the problem. If she wee's that much there are a lots of things that could possibly be wrong. My 11 year old started having problems at about age 5 and was constantly feeling the urge to go to the toilet. Luckily this was picked up by a supply teacher after 2 days and I took him straight to the doctors. They tested him for diabetes and then sent him for a scan. The scan showed that one of his ureters (the tube between the kidney and the bladder) was longer on one side than the other and so after he had been to the loo some wee sat in the loop, if you know what I mean, before going back into the bladder. The first thing they said was I bet you had loads of problems potty training and they were amazed when I said no. He was dry at 2 years 2 weeks in the day and a week later in the night. He hasnt had a problem since but if she is weeing that much there could be other things involved ie diabetes as this was the first test they did at Drs.

[angeldelight]

I agree with you 100% Celine that there is something wrong

My daughter had this problem for a few years when she was younger - and my doc ignored me

I just kept taking her back and she did have a water infection which like you say with the correct medication worked wonders

I am just getting over a kidney infection - same sort of thing really just more painful but I could not stop going for a wee and when I needed to go I just had to go otherwise I felt like I would wet myself
So imagine what that must be like for a child

If it is not that then Annie is correct it could be something else but best to get it checked out whatever for the childs sake

Have another word with the parents Celine

Good luck keep us posted

Angel xx

[Tatia]

I don't think it will help to tell her noone will play with her if she wets or is smelly, especially as it may be a medical condition and there's nothing she can do about it. My daughter had trouble with this until she was a teen for exactly the same reason as Annie's son. She was even hospitalized. It was very tramautic for her and for me when she would be so upset about it.

Parents definitely need to get it checked now rather than later. Tell them not to wait, like I did, assuming she was being lazy and would grow out of it.

[fionamal]

I agree with everyone else, she needs to see a doctor.

My daughter is now 5 and had a few days of wetting herself at nursery and it was a urine infection. Antibiotics soon cleared it after a couple of days.

[Heaven Scent]

Thanks a million to you all for all your help and for sharing your experiences its great to be reassured that I'm not over reacting.

Tatia I've stopped saying that to her as I believe its not her fault I just had to try everything incase it was her being stubborn or being a bit of a dolly day dream especially as dad seems to be brushing it off. I did say something to dad about it being an infection again the other day and he just brushes me off - if it was my child I'd have her at the doctor by now. She also has eczema and the mum says its mild but she has some terrible sore patches. on her body and yesterday when I was at the practice nurse about our holiday jabs (did I mention that I'm off on holiday on Friday!!!!!!!!!!!! - I had to take the mindees as not guaranteed that dad will turn up on time for me to go between 5.30 and 6.00 so made it for after school as the whole family had to go - We were like the Clampits) the nurse noticed her eczema on her legs and asked me if it was eczema and then asked me if it was under control and I said I thought mum thinks it is and shrugged my shoulders and she says it looks bad - Baby brother is as bad too - Again if it was my children then I'd have them seen to.

I know the parents aren't bad parents but feel that they know best and have lost sight of whats important - they are so busy working and doing up their house that they seem a bit blinkered to the fact that their children could be given a quick once over by the doc. - for months the little fella had the opposite problem in that his nappies were always very dry he appeared to only have 3 wees per day and I always thought that was unusual especially for a little boy of his age - when my son was 12-18 mths he always had good wet nappies the little lad drinks lots throughout the day and loves his bottles of milk so it struck me as strange and I mentioned that to dad too. Maybe they might take stock in the next two weeks while I'm away and get then seen.

One day I took them to a local farm and LO washed her hands before we left and her hands went all sore and red so I asked mum by telephone for some soap which I could take on trips with us and she said not necessary and I put it on an incident report which dad signed then out of blue a bar of soap appeared she must have read it and had second thoughts or dad may have convinced her anyway he said she sent it and I got her to write me a permission letter to use it all the time and send the packaging so I could keep it on file - the bar appeared in a plastic soap box with childs name on it - it was Oilatum - but I didn't know that because I've never used it.

Thanks again for your replies

[Tatia]

Tatia I've stopped saying that to her as I believe its not her fault I just had to try everything incase it was her being stubborn or being a bit of a dolly day dream especially as dad seems to be brushing it off.
I hope you didn't take that as criticism. I was just offereing avice, based on my own experience.:)

[Heaven Scent]

No love I was only trying to explain that I'd tried everything that I can think of especially as the parents seem to think its my fault even though they admit she is doing it at home in the weeks she is doing it here. I know mum has big issues in having to leave her children and so blames me for everything and is very quick to criticise but never quick to praise so I do feel put out that they won't listen to me and take LO to the doc to have her checked out even if it is to rule out an infection.

The LO is a bit of a dolly day dream who would wonder off in a flash and doesn't respond very quickly to instruction and is very stubborn into the bargain so I did have to finally try hitting at her pride and say if she doesn't go when she needs to and wets herself she will become smelly in the hope that that would hit home and it hasn't so I'm still going with my gut feelings that there is some other underlying medical problem and would just wish I could shake the parents into listening to me - but there is just nothing I can do about it and the poor little one is just so used to it that it doesn't bother her she just takes off her wet clothes puts them in a bag and gets the clean ones out and she wipes herself down and I re-do it and she puts on the clean clothes. It had actually become a bit of a game and she used to get all excited and run about telling my husband and or cleaner about how she was putting on more pretty clothes so that was when I played the smelly card because I wondered if I was over reacting and she was just doing it for notice and for the thrill of changing her clothes.

This week was the first time I noticed it bothering her one day she tried to sneak past me to the loo to get changed without telling me - the funny walk and the dark wet patch on her pretty pink shorts were a big give away. The second time was yesterday when she wet herself in the shop and she went bright red and tried to hold it in. - This is why I started the thread because I really felt for her standing in her puddle while we waited for somone to come and mop it up - I couldn't walk away and leave it in case somone slipped on it - I did try to find someone but was worried sick about leaving the two children in the aisle unattended , one shopper eventually very kindly went and found someone but everyone was looking at her and she knew it. - I really feel enough is enough now but how do I get the parents to act???

[Pipsqueak]

[QUOTE=Super Stars;139347 but how do I get the parents to act???[/QUOTE]

Reckon the same way as last time - fill out a record of concern (about the ecema and weeing) and get parents to sign for - state on there that you have recommended the child has a GP appointment and parents have refused - get them to sign it. If they see you keeping official records/documentation then it may prompt them to act.

Keep records of any further conversations/discussions etc. Keep a log of toilet trips, accidents etc for 6 weeks if possible to have evidence of this 3 week cycle. Parents can use it to show HV or GP.


Have you tried taking a portable potty out with you for the poor bairn? Poor kid - hope things work out soon

[Heaven Scent]

Portable potty a great idea but haven't got around to buying 1 yet. Used to have 1 for my own two but gave literally everything away when I moved here nearly four years ago so have been slowly trying to replace everything since last april just before my initial start up inspection. I have noticed that parents have one in the car.

I will definately start a log after my holiday and get going from there its such a delicate thing parents are not bad just a bit blinkered and very stubborn by their own admission so its hard to get them to listen I don't want to get their backs up by looking as though I am undermining them - I'm really fond of the kids but mum is really quite firey - you should have seen the reaction she made to me mentioning that her payments were not reaching my bank on time every month - I didn't even put it this bluntly and she accidentally sent me a fax about it that was meant for dad - that was really horrid it made my blood run cold and upset me for weeks - I did let her know that she sent it to me and she did apologise for her reaction and said she hoped it wouldn't affect my relationship with the children - I guaranteed her it wouldn't but both kids do have their parents stubborn streaks but are really lovely and loveable.

Thank you all for your help and advice on this and all the other points I raised queries about this week.

[Noodles]

My lo is 4 in june and has just got over the same problem. She would go to the loo do a wee and then 2 mins later wet herself.
I took her to docs and she has had water infections ( she was quite poorley with one episode)
She had to then have a kidney scan to make sure there was no other problems and the doc said at this age a urine/kidney infection can affect a child in this way and it is a case of retraining the bladder to work properly again.
Hopefully touch wood we are over the worst now as she has been really good of late.
I can always tell if she is getting another infection by the colour and smell of her wee( sorry for too much info)
If it is the same kind of problem they cannot help it and she child should not be given any negative vibes or be told its not right to do this kind of thing at their age.

[Trouble]

my daughter has had water infec most of her life and she 11 1/2 nw for the first 4 years of her life she was on trimetheprine(water infec anti biotics) if they dont get treated it can cause further damage so the mother needs to listern to you.

and its not fair one the little one

[Heaven Scent]

Thank you all for your very informative and supportive replies and I'll re-read them when I get back and make notes so I can look as though I have some knowledge on the subject. I'll also take a look on the internet to see if I can find somethings I can quote to them.