Anyone see report in Daily Mail today?

[catswhiskers]

'Why thousands of nursery children could be in danger'.

The report goes on to say how an ofsted report shows that almost 700 childcare providers, catering for more than 11,500 youngsters. have been rated inadequate by inspectors over the past three years.

It's a long report but also says that in the last three months, more nurseries were deemed good or outstanding than childminders.

A nursery I know have just been awarded outstanding but never acknowledged any of my paperwork I gave to them for one of my mindees. They didn't "work in partnership with other settings".

If I hadn't tried to communicate with this setting and my inspection had been due, would I have got an outstanding? Probably not.

I feel childminders are downgraded more just because of their paperwork!

[boxtree7]

i know 3 childminders who are graded outstanding ... each of them it was all about paper work, 1 of them it was about how tidy their house was (really) the childmidner works partime. Sadly there is different types of childminding - ive watched these outstanding childminders at toddlers group.

[debratina]

also remember that the nurseries have staff that can do the paperwork while other members of staff look after the children and they probably have someone to do all the admin too. childminders - well a lonely job in which we are not recognised for what we do. we will always be the underdogs :(

[KarenM]

I know what you mean Boxtree, I was graded good but was told if I had been operating longer I would have got outstanding - didn't have enough evidence. Yet another couple of childminders who did get it, I don't think deserved it. One has been seen putting children in the corner and covering the buggy with a blanket to 'drown out the crying', another sits a child who is toilet training on a plastic sheet all day so she learns not to wet herself!!
Same at nurseries, the one I worked in changed the whole way they operated when OFSTED turned up and market themselves as outstanding when they only got a good. The only outstanding part was my emails between the Area Senco and Early Years teacher as evidence of partnership, lol.

[The Juggler]

i know 3 childminders who are graded outstanding ... each of them it was all about paper work, 1 of them it was about how tidy their house was (really) the childmidner works partime. Sadly there is different types of childminding - ive watched these outstanding childminders at toddlers group.

i have heard it all now :panic: :panic: :panic:

it is unfair that we have to prove that we work in partnership with other settings but that nurseries (I am sure) never have to show CM- nursery communications only that between parents and other health professionals. :panic:

i am not dissing in any way the number of outstanding minders on here or elsewhere, who got that grade for proving at inspection that they are amazing when they show how they practice day in/day out - I think you are all amazing.:D BUT, what annoys me is those minders that are completely different to their normal selves on inspection day, they actually play with the children, interact with them, use specially borrowed resources, and do activities that never come out the rest of the year.

The amazing thing is they don't even see the irony of the fact that they only got the grade on this basis. they are genuinely proud of themselves NOT for cheating the system but they actually believe that practising like this on inspection day -- one day in 3 years genuinely makes them oustanding :( it's their kids I feel sorry for. They are not in any 'danger' ever and are loved but they are neither stimulated nor interacted with the most part of the time:( .

They believe that letting children play independently means putting a few toys out/taking them to toddlers and letting them get on with it and they shoo them away if they come over to interrupt chat/coffee time, saying off you go and play :panic:

[angeldelight]

I know what you mean Boxtree, I was graded good but was told if I had been operating longer I would have got outstanding - didn't have enough evidence. Yet another couple of childminders who did get it, I don't think deserved it. One has been seen putting children in the corner and covering the buggy with a blanket to 'drown out the crying', another sits a child who is toilet training on a plastic sheet all day so she learns not to wet herself!!
Same at nurseries, the one I worked in changed the whole way they operated when OFSTED turned up and market themselves as outstanding when they only got a good. The only outstanding part was my emails between the Area Senco and Early Years teacher as evidence of partnership, lol.

omg :eek: :eek: and these minders got outstanding ??

Angel xx

[rickysmiths]

i have heard it all now :panic: :panic: :panic:

it is unfair that we have to prove that we work in partnership with other settings but that nurseries (I am sure) never have to show CM- nursery communications only that between parents and other health professionals. :panic:

i am not dissing in any way the number of outstanding minders on here or elsewhere, who got that grade for proving at inspection that they are amazing when they show how they practice day in/day out - I think you are all amazing.:D BUT, what annoys me is those minders that are completely different to their normal selves on inspection day, they actually play with the children, interact with them, use specially borrowed resources, and do activities that never come out the rest of the year.

The amazing thing is they don't even see the irony of the fact that they only got the grade on this basis. they are genuinely proud of themselves NOT for cheating the system but they actually believe that practising like this on inspection day -- one day in 3 years genuinely makes them oustanding :( it's their kids I feel sorry for. They are not in any 'danger' ever and are loved but they are neither stimulated nor interacted with the most part of the time:( .

They believe that letting children play independently means putting a few toys out/taking them to toddlers and letting them get on with it and they shoo them away if they come over to interrupt chat/coffee time, saying off you go and play :panic:

Funny, we have a little clique around here for whom one has virtually written their Sef for them, done their RAs for them, she even went to ones house when she moved to do he RAs for her. They passed around resourses to cover each other for their inspections earlier this year, especially for Equality and disability stuff. One set between 4 or 5 of them. I have my own and if I don't I use the Toy Lib.

I had my inspection last week, my house is always spotless and that didn't get me outstanding Maybe I should add it to the list of complaints Prospects are going to get when they let me have a copy of my report

[rickysmiths]

My husband, as a teacher, is used to taking what the Daily Mail says with a large pinch of salt and a huge dollop of scepticism. He's looked into these figures and says...


The report in the Daily Mail is (as usual) a highly biased interpretation of the figures. Here is the summary from OFSTED's actual report...

Active providers inspected (1 September 2008 to 30 June 2011)

• As at 30 June 2011, 53,654 active early years registered providers had received an inspection since the introduction of the framework in September 2008. Two-thirds (66%) of these providers were childminders.
• At their most recent inspection, 72% of childcare providers were judged as good or outstanding for overall effectiveness and almost all (99%) were judged to be at least satisfactory. One percent was judged inadequate. A higher proportion of childcare providers on non-domestic premises were judged to be good or outstanding for overall effectiveness compared to the childminders inspected, at 75% and 69% respectively.
• For 48,270 of these providers compliance with the requirements of the compulsory part of the Childcare Register was also monitored at their most recent inspection, while for 45,177 compliance with the requirements of the voluntary part of the Childcare Register was checked. Eighty-seven per cent met the requirements of the compulsory part, and 88% met the requirements of the voluntary part.
• Regionally, the East of England has the highest quality of early years registered provision, with 76% of active providers judged good or outstanding at their most recent inspection, followed by the South East with 75%. The North East and North West has the lowest quality, with 66% of active providers found good or outstanding at their most recent inspection.
• Since the introduction of the Early Years Foundation Stage, 6,009 early years providers have been inspected and were no longer active at 30 June 2011. Of these providers, 11% were inadequate at their last inspection.


Their "almost 700" is OFSTED's "one percent". I believe that there are currently around 6 per cent of schools which are judged less than satisfactory - childcare providers are doing well! It's interesting to see the high proportion of inadequate providers amongst those who have given up since their inspection.

The report on the last three months says that three per cent of providers were judged inadequate. This means that childcare is getting worse OR inspections are getting tougher OR providers previously judged inadequate are revisited sooner than those previously good or better OR it's a statistical blip OR it's a mixtue of some or all of these!

The most important lesson to be learned from all this is that you can't believe everything you read in the papers - especially in the Daily Mail which is notorious for putting a massive spin on figures to meet their own political agenda.

If you want to see the full details of the OFSTED report, you can download it in full, along with all the figures, at http://www..ofsted.gov.uk/resources/official-statistics-early-years-and-childcare-registered-providers-inspections-and-outcomes

He has just commented that they obviously got bored kicking the teachers and thought they would have a go at childcarers instead!

[Helcatt]

The most important lesson to be learned from all this is that you can't believe everything you read in the papers - especially in the Daily Mail which is notorious for putting a massive spin on figures to meet their own political agenda.

I feel like I spend my whole life on a rant against the evil that is the Daily Mail

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[marleymoo]

i don't know how a childminder can be graded outstanding based solely upon what an inspector sees on that one day. surely these CM's who got outstanding had to have had sufficient evidence, besides paperwork etc, to demonstrate that their practice is exemplary? otherwise, what is the point in me busting my gut day after day, improving outcomes for children, researching, innovating, modifying and improving my practice and setting, CPPD etc? Gosh, i hope ppl don't say this about me in my area!!!:panic:

[The Juggler]

i don't know how a childminder can be graded outstanding based solely upon what an inspector sees on that one day. surely these CM's who got outstanding had to have had sufficient evidence, besides paperwork etc, to demonstrate that their practice is exemplary? otherwise, what is the point in me busting my gut day after day, improving outcomes for children, researching, innovating, modifying and improving my practice and setting, CPPD etc? Gosh, i hope ppl don't say this about me in my area!!!:panic:

marleymoo, I don't wish to diss anyone's achievement of outstanding when they deserve it and I'm sure 90% of outstanding minders are in this category. I know o/s minders who totally deserve that grade. What I hate is those that I know of, that don't practice like this on a daily basis. Yes they might have the paperwork printed off a website and stuck in a folder. Yes they do the training and have the certificates but it doesn't affect their practice on a daily basis. They borrow resources, do activities they'd never otherwise do, and don't believe in getting down and playing with kids - that's when it's unfair :( SO i think in these cases inspectors must be basing it on what they see that day.

[marleymoo]

i just don't know how CMs know how other CMs operate behind closed doors? or is it that ppl are seeing their poor practice when in public places such as play groups? you see, i don't attend these places myself for a number of reasons, a few of which i assume ppl can imagine. i know you're not dissing o/s CMs per se Juggler and be assured i haven't taken yours or anybody else's comments personally :thumbsup:
i am not defensive of o/s CMs, i can only defend myself. i agree, i have met hundreds of CMs of all grades and it does surprise me sometimes what grades ppl get

[catswhiskers]

rickysmith I was just bringing the report to everyone's attention. If it's in the Daily Mail I don't see what's wrong with that. I've been reading the Daily Mail for years and it's the one paper I look forward to reading as it's got so many great articles and columnists that don't mind speaking out.

Helcatt I can't see how a newspaper can be "evil"?

[KarenM]

The practice with the baby in the corner was at a Childminder group I attended at a local children's centre. From that point I stopped going as I didn't want to associate myself with that and also brought it to the attention of the children's centre staff and my local NCMA representative. I know they have been CM for years, but felt it was highly inappropriate. I have been to the other CM house and was surprised at the many hazards I could see, not least the piles of toys the children were climbing on to get to the topmost boxes.
I think as is with anything, we all have the capacity to act differently around others but the children always know. And inspectors should be able to identify these differences in practice and the 'show' that is put on. When I had my inspection the children were only too happy to tell the inspector everything - even that Karen says we must have gentle hands and showed her his chart where he got star for everytime he responded in a better way than pinching, scratching etc.

[Happy Bunny]

I wish we could go back to the system that we had when social services governed us.
I had regular visits, I had to show what i was doing with the children.
They even did unannounced visits.
This proved that I was doing my job properly not just proving it for one day every three years!

[marleymoo]

i see and hear (straight from the horses' mouths) of lots of bad practice and for some reason other CMs think it's appropriate to report to me bad practice they've seen too, expecting me to report it to my NCMA colleagues/managers i think. if you see it you should report it to Ofsted, you owe it to the kids and to the reputation of all CMs of all grades. then the CM will get an unexpected visit and Mr or Mrs O should see them for what they really are. I'd be quite happy for Ofsted to inspect me EVERY year and they can come when they like for me.

[JCrakers]

I do believe that Ofsted should be able to turn up unexpected. Ive never understood the point of an expected day and time because it gives everyone the time to prepare and put things in place that wouldnt usually be there.

I use the local toy library and the lady said that she had, had a frantic phonecall from another childminder in the area as she had no multicultural toys and Ofsted were due so could she get some delivered in time?!?!

If I opened the door to Ofsted today Id be happy to let them in as things are always the same. Might be a tad behind on the paperwork occasionally but what the hell...lol

becky

[marleymoo]

Might be a tad behind on the paperwork occasionally but what the hell...lol
we can't be brilliant all the time can we bexc?

[stardust]

As always childminders are made to look bad! I annoys me!

[rickysmiths]

rickysmith I was just bringing the report to everyone's attention. If it's in the Daily Mail I don't see what's wrong with that. I've been reading the Daily Mail for years and it's the one paper I look forward to reading as it's got so many great articles and columnists that don't mind speaking out.

Helcatt I can't see how a newspaper can be "evil"?

The thing is though and thank you for bringing it to our attention, it is inaccurate and bias. There is no other way to put it. I used to read the mail 30 years ago but I am fed up with their inaccurate sensational style of reporting.

[rickysmiths]

I do believe that Ofsted should be able to turn up unexpected. Ive never understood the point of an expected day and time because it gives everyone the time to prepare and put things in place that wouldnt usually be there.

I use the local toy library and the lady said that she had, had a frantic phonecall from another childminder in the area as she had no multicultural toys and Ofsted were due so could she get some delivered in time?!?!

If I opened the door to Ofsted today Id be happy to let them in as things are always the same. Might be a tad behind on the paperwork occasionally but what the hell...lol

becky

Becky it would waste a great deal of time if they were to turn up at cms unannounced which is why they can't and don't. We work i our own homes we are not a fixed business premesis like a school or nursery. We do not have fixed opening ours and all of are 'open' at different times. We go out regularly to school, nursery, toddler groups, other visits and outings unlike pre-schools, whole schools or day nurseries who will always have children and staff present on their premesis during their open times.

I was out yesterday morning for 2 hours, I was out this morning for 3 hours. I will be out tomorrow, I have my NVQ tutor coming on Thursday morning and I am out on Friday so how would an inspector feel if they were hoping to inspect me this week. Out 4 mornings and with my tutor the 5th? During the summer I didn't have any children on a Mon or Fri which is unheard of for me and why should I be inspected as Satifatory because Mrs O turns up on a day I have no children?

[miffy]

I'd be quite happy for Ofsted to inspect me EVERY year and they can come when they like for me.

Exactly what used to happen before Ofsted took over - annual inspection by appointment AND a six monthly unannounced spot check!

Miffy xx

[jelly15]

In Wales the CSSIW do unannouced visits within twelve weeks (if I remember correctly) of returning the forms. Although we have to put in when we are not at home for school runs, playgroups etc it is still a waste of time and money if the inspector calls and the CM has gone on a spontanious walk or visit.

I do find that the press is generally not great when it comes to reporting anything to do with CMers.

[JCrakers]

Becky it would waste a great deal of time if they were to turn up at cms unannounced which is why they can't and don't. We work i our own homes we are not a fixed business premesis like a school or nursery. We do not have fixed opening ours and all of are 'open' at different times. We go out regularly to school, nursery, toddler groups, other visits and outings unlike pre-schools, whole schools or day nurseries who will always have children and staff present on their premesis during their open times.

I was out yesterday morning for 2 hours, I was out this morning for 3 hours. I will be out tomorrow, I have my NVQ tutor coming on Thursday morning and I am out on Friday so how would an inspector feel if they were hoping to inspect me this week. Out 4 mornings and with my tutor the 5th? During the summer I didn't have any children on a Mon or Fri which is unheard of for me and why should I be inspected as Satifatory because Mrs O turns up on a day I have no children?

I didnt mean to grade....just to check every now and again :D I really wouldnt mind
Im out a lot so wouldnt appreciate an unanounced grading but If I was given an Outstanding, it would be good for them to come again to make sure Im living up to my grade

[rickysmiths]

I didnt mean to grade....just to check every now and again :D I really wouldnt mind
Im out a lot so wouldnt appreciate an unanounced grading but If I was given an Outstanding, it would be good for them to come again to make sure Im living up to my grade

Its a lovely thought but they cut inspections to every three years and didn't CRB existing cms when they took over in 2001 because of the cost.
Over the years many inspections have slipped to every 4 years. It is all to do with cost.

If you want to see the annual registration fee rise to several hundred pounds a year then by all means push for more frequent inspections and unanounced ones but that is the only way that will ever happen.

[JCrakers]

Its a lovely thought but they cut inspections to every three years and didn't CRB existing cms when they took over in 2001 because of the cost.
Over the years many inspections have slipped to every 4 years. It is all to do with cost.

If you want to see the annual registration fee rise to several hundred pounds a year then by all means push for more frequent inspections and unanounced ones but that is the only way that will ever happen.


Im not pushing for anything :D Im happy as it is..just commenting that in an ideal world it would be better. I dont really want Ofsted coming anymore than needed just saying it would flag up anything that wasnt right possibly....
Im definitly not up for Ofsted coming round if they dont need to. Im due an inspection any time :panic:
:D