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Penny1959
03-09-2011, 07:35 PM
I have this posted under NCMA but as it has very few views and even fewer responses - I thought I would re post here so more of you get a chance to comment.

On Saturady 10th September myself and Playmate (along with a few others) are meeting face to face with the Department for Education as part of the consultation process for the revised EYFS.

We are going wearing our NCMA volunteer hats - however as all childminders will be required to work with the new EYFS and inspected against it from September 2012 - the DfE would like as many comments as possible - and so we are able to put forward your points of view as well as your concerns.

Please let us have your constructive comments - either by posting a reply here or by PM to either of us.

Penny :)

khlwomitchell
03-09-2011, 08:00 PM
Mmm not sure but the only thing i can say is that even if they are revising the EYFS it was totally unfair to stop printing the books as new minders from my inital course had none to work from last april.
May not be relevent to what you want say?

Penny1959
03-09-2011, 08:31 PM
Mmm not sure but the only thing i can say is that even if they are revising the EYFS it was totally unfair to stop printing the books as new minders from my inital course had none to work from last april.
May not be relevent to what you want say?

Yes it is relevant and a valid point that has already been passed to me - and so is on my list.

Thanks for posting

Penny :)

Andrea08
04-09-2011, 11:27 AM
hi, i think sarah posted on her comments about the form we had to send in for the review...

think it covered most of the points and changes that were listed,

if you ask sarah707 im sure she will point you in the direction of her thread and there were lots of comments there too hun xxx

Penny1959
04-09-2011, 11:54 AM
hi, i think sarah posted on her comments about the form we had to send in for the review...

think it covered most of the points and changes that were listed,

if you ask sarah707 im sure she will point you in the direction of her thread and there were lots of comments there too hun xxx


Thank you Andrea - yes we have Sarah's document.

Since sending in my online consultation form I have reread and spotted a few more things that I want clarifying / to bring up - so this meeting is an opportunity to bring up things not mentioned before as well as the ones we all feel strongly about.

Penny :)

sarah707
04-09-2011, 02:23 PM
I noticed a couple more things when I was doing some research earlier today...

How structured should the adult-led play be when a child is preparing for reception? Are we to pretty much forget about child-led play once a child gets to 4? Will we get training to teach us what it all means for the individual child - or is individual / unique child pretty much passé now that they all have to be ready for school?

How strong is the onus on us to learn enough of a child's home language to use it in the setting with the child going to be? How much language will we need to learn? Won't it be just like when, for example, an Indian family teach their child English and the child has a pronounced accent - we will run the risk of sounding ridiculous and teaching the child wrong!!

At what point will well meaning but slightly misinformed 'professionals' start telling us not to read to little ones because the reading part of communication and language does not kick in until they are older?

How will it help children to learn and develop at their own pace if we are to test them age 2? Parents will not want to see their child 'fail'... will that mean a generation of hot housed babies until the next govt changes it all again?

Where is the money going to come from to train every childminder to be able to write the 2 year test thingy?

There is a requirement to work with Health Visitors - do HVs really want a bunch of childminders telling them things? At the moment if I try to speak to HVs I get 'confidentiality' thrown at me and told to, basically, go away and talk to the parents. How will this be changed?

Is the new Eyfs really going to mean that other professionals are more likely to listen to childminders who have concerns about a child? For example a childminder might be concerned about a child's hearing or speech but audiology and speech therapy services refuse to take notice unless the concern is raised by the parents! Is this going to suddenly change?

Will there be the ££ available to follow up all the concerns that are going to be raised after the 2 year old check which are simply linked to immaturity and slow developing children rather than actual conditions?

:D

Penny1959
04-09-2011, 03:32 PM
Thank you Sarah - some of the additional points I picked up - it is not surprising as it is such a big document that it takes several readings and hours of highlight pen use and scribbled notes to really beging to spot the things that need bringing up.

On my second look through I got stuck on the intro page because they keep switching between the term 'early years setting' and pre school settings'' they need to be consistant and personally I think the term 'Early Years setting is the better of the two - as some childminders and others think a pre school setting is a nursery class or playgroup - and not a childminder setting.

Thank you Sarah for your comments - I fear the 2 hour meeting will not be long enough!

Penny :)

Playmate
04-09-2011, 04:27 PM
Thank you Sarah - some of the additional points I picked up - it is not surprising as it is such a big document that it takes several readings and hours of highlight pen use and scribbled notes to really beging to spot the things that need bringing up.

On my second look through I got stuck on the intro page because they keep switching between the term 'early years setting' and pre school settings'' they need to be consistant and personally I think the term 'Early Years setting is the better of the two - as some childminders and others think a pre school setting is a nursery class or playgroup - and not a childminder setting.

Thank you Sarah for your comments - I fear the 2 hour meeting will not be long enough!
Penny :)

I think it may be wise to take a sleeping bag and lots of food :D

I agree totally that it takes several times of reading to really see all thatis there. I have highlighted all the way through my copy and if I have written the words ' NEEDS CLARIFICATION' once I must have written it a thousand times :panic:

stardust
04-09-2011, 06:21 PM
Sorry if I missed something but how much of it are they changing??
I may be linched for this but I don't actually have a problem with the old eyfs (maybe this is because i worked in a nursery for 4 years doing mine and my seniors and others nursery nurses files!) I hope they don't make it too much more its bad enough practitioners have enough paperwork with out adding to it. what with policies and procedures, daily diaries, planning, learning diaries, partnership with parents, partnership with other settings, expenses, risk assesments ect oh and for the more crazy ones the bristol standard, training ect..... x

Playmate
04-09-2011, 06:40 PM
Sorry if I missed something but how much of it are they changing??
I may be linched for this but I don't actually have a problem with the old eyfs (maybe this is because i worked in a nursery for 4 years doing mine and my seniors and others nursery nurses files!) I hope they don't make it too much more its bad enough practitioners have enough paperwork with out adding to it. what with policies and procedures, daily diaries, planning, learning diaries, partnership with parents, partnership with other settings, expenses, risk assesments ect oh and for the more crazy ones the bristol standard, training ect..... x

The idea is it it supposed to be streamlined a little after the proposals of the Tickle review. There is currently a consultation on line, I will go and find the link for you.
Hopefully this works
http://www.education.gov.uk/consultations/

Penny1959
04-09-2011, 07:53 PM
Sorry if I missed something but how much of it are they changing??
I may be linched for this but I don't actually have a problem with the old eyfs (maybe this is because i worked in a nursery for 4 years doing mine and my seniors and others nursery nurses files!) I hope they don't make it too much more its bad enough practitioners have enough paperwork with out adding to it. what with policies and procedures, daily diaries, planning, learning diaries, partnership with parents, partnership with other settings, expenses, risk assesments ect oh and for the more crazy ones the bristol standard, training ect..... x

I like the current EYFS too (well most of it) and have posted elsewhere about it.

The revised EYFS is as Playmates says more streamline - less ELG and in theory less requirement for paperwork (although to be honest most paperwork thought needed currently is not actually part of EYFS)

With you experience in a nursery and as a childminder - I would be interested in your thoughts on the revised EYFS - hope you have time to look at the link that Playmate has proivided.

Penny :)

stardust
04-09-2011, 09:40 PM
I like the current EYFS too (well most of it) and have posted elsewhere about it.

The revised EYFS is as Playmates says more streamline - less ELG and in theory less requirement for paperwork (although to be honest most paperwork thought needed currently is not actually part of EYFS)

With you experience in a nursery and as a childminder - I would be interested in your thoughts on the revised EYFS - hope you have time to look at the link that Playmate has proivided.

Penny :)

Ill have a look now and let you know xx

stardust
04-09-2011, 10:02 PM
Sorry Ive looked and I cant seam to find what Im supposed to be looking for it may just be becasuse it is late but what section am i looking for??

Penny1959
05-09-2011, 04:32 AM
Try this link

http://www.education.gov.uk/consultations/index.cfm?action=consultationDetails&consultationId=1747&external=no&menu=1

You should be able to then click on the EYFS document and the consultation document


Hope it works

Penny :)

The Juggler
05-09-2011, 07:15 AM
I noticed a couple more things when I was doing some research earlier today...

How structured should the adult-led play be when a child is preparing for reception? Are we to pretty much forget about child-led play once a child gets to 4? Will we get training to teach us what it all means for the individual child - or is individual / unique child pretty much passé now that they all have to be ready for school?

How strong is the onus on us to learn enough of a child's home language to use it in the setting with the child going to be? How much language will we need to learn? Won't it be just like when, for example, an Indian family teach their child English and the child has a pronounced accent - we will run the risk of sounding ridiculous and teaching the child wrong!!

At what point will well meaning but slightly misinformed 'professionals' start telling us not to read to little ones because the reading part of communication and language does not kick in until they are older?that is a very good point. i bet someone does. that is the problem - that until D.O.'s or even ofsted inspectors have higher level early years qualifications across the board, I guarantee these kinds of 'advice' assessments of our practice will be made.

How will it help children to learn and develop at their own pace if we are to test them age 2? Parents will not want to see their child 'fail'... will that mean a generation of hot housed babies until the next govt changes it all again?

Where is the money going to come from to train every childminder to be able to write the 2 year test thingy?

There is a requirement to work with Health Visitors - do HVs really want a bunch of childminders telling them things? At the moment if I try to speak to HVs I get 'confidentiality' thrown at me and told to, basically, go away and talk to the parents. How will this be changed?

Is the new Eyfs really going to mean that other professionals are more likely to listen to childminders who have concerns about a child? For example a childminder might be concerned about a child's hearing or speech but audiology and speech therapy services refuse to take notice unless the concern is raised by the parents! Is this going to suddenly change?

Will there be the ££ available to follow up all the concerns that are going to be raised after the 2 year old check which are simply linked to immaturity and slow developing children rather than actual conditions?

:D

Penny, on that point, this is a more general one I guess than EYFS itself and I don't know if it's a valid point to bring up at the review, but my question is how qualified are the inspectors going to be, within in the realms of early years rather than just primary education, to assess such areas of practice (rather than just paperwork). Further how will they ensure more equality of judgements across the board. I know that Tribal are looking for new inspectors with early years degrees and EYFS as a minimum but I'm guessing many of these will not have childminding experience.:(

mama2three
05-09-2011, 08:01 AM
My major concern regards the 2 year 'review' where ( if Ive understood it ) we are changing the focus from what the childs progress is to those areas where the child may need further help. Although we do this now in the form of next steps and of course we try to focus on areas where a child needs further experiences to help them develop - the new advice seems to indicate we will be focusing on negatives rather than positives - and as such will lose a lot of the parental goodwill we strive for ( and as cms it is one of our major strengths). In addition to this we will almost certainly require a higher level of training to be able to match indicators of the many areas of sens to individual children. As a former senco I find this very worrying - we are not trained to diagnose and the vast differences in abilities of a ''normal'' child approaching 2 years old make this a complete minefield . Additionally where a child is identified as having specific needs at this very young age there is a complete lack of funding / help at a local level to provide the additional resources / expertise and unless this gap is plugged then regardless of any improvement in identifying sens there will be no overall gain for children or early years providers.
Have just read this back and not sure Ive been very clear - hope you get the jist!

Penny1959
05-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Penny, on that point, this is a more general one I guess than EYFS itself and I don't know if it's a valid point to bring up at the review, but my question is how qualified are the inspectors going to be, within in the realms of early years rather than just primary education, to assess such areas of practice (rather than just paperwork). Further how will they ensure more equality of judgements across the board. I know that Tribal are looking for new inspectors with early years degrees and EYFS as a minimum but I'm guessing many of these will not have childminding experience.:(

It is a very good point Juggler - I have it down as 'consistency of inspections' but your point fits in well with that - inspectors need to have an understanding of childminding and early years - ok we may not get everything - but at the very least they should have some in house training on what to look for and the differences between childminding settings and other Early years settings .

On the other point about advisors - well, you know I have been on the other side of the fence - and I know that in a lot of cases the advisors don't have a clue, have to work across all types of settings and have managers who might have a degree - but not early years related. So again it is a question of consistency.

Personally although I hate 'rules' and conditions that do not really sit well in the real world - the thing that drives nme mad most is inconsistancy - because it is just the luck of the draw - what advice you get - and what inspection grade you get.

So if they are going to have 'rules' (the EYFS) at least be consistant.

opps - sorry a bit of a rant - but you are quite right - it is very important.

Thanks for your comments

Penny :)

The Juggler
05-09-2011, 12:50 PM
It is a very good point Juggler - I have it down as 'consistency of inspections' but your point fits in well with that - inspectors need to have an understanding of childminding and early years - ok we may not get everything - but at the very least they should have some in house training on what to look for and the differences between childminding settings and other Early years settings .

On the other point about advisors - well, you know I have been on the other side of the fence - and I know that in a lot of cases the advisors don't have a clue, have to work across all types of settings and have managers who might have a degree - but not early years related. So again it is a question of consistency.

Personally although I hate 'rules' and conditions that do not really sit well in the real world - the thing that drives nme mad most is inconsistancy - because it is just the luck of the draw - what advice you get - and what inspection grade you get.

So if they are going to have 'rules' (the EYFS) at least be consistant.

opps - sorry a bit of a rant - but you are quite right - it is very important.

Thanks for your comments

Penny :)

:laughing: :laughing: no that's fine you sound just like I sounded when I wrote my comments! Would be very interested in initial feedback from your meeting as I can't make the Greater london one this term.

Penny1959
05-09-2011, 12:52 PM
My major concern regards the 2 year 'review' where ( if Ive understood it ) we are changing the focus from what the childs progress is to those areas where the child may need further help. Although we do this now in the form of next steps and of course we try to focus on areas where a child needs further experiences to help them develop - the new advice seems to indicate we will be focusing on negatives rather than positives - and as such will lose a lot of the parental goodwill we strive for ( and as cms it is one of our major strengths). In addition to this we will almost certainly require a higher level of training to be able to match indicators of the many areas of sens to individual children. As a former senco I find this very worrying - we are not trained to diagnose and the vast differences in abilities of a ''normal'' child approaching 2 years old make this a complete minefield . Additionally where a child is identified as having specific needs at this very young age there is a complete lack of funding / help at a local level to provide the additional resources / expertise and unless this gap is plugged then regardless of any improvement in identifying sens there will be no overall gain for children or early years providers.
Have just read this back and not sure Ive been very clear - hope you get the jist!

Yes I have the jist!

My personal experience with my grandson makes this point a major concern.

First well meaning cm who have concerns will start to 'label' and say x has Y - when in fact at 2 - apart from extreme cases - it is a 'warning sign' - so a huge training need

Second - when there is a warning sign - where is the funding going to come from to support the child and the childminder - LA have had huge budget cuts and in some cases don't even have a EY team

Third - will other professional listen? (In my case I noticed at 2, I made a big fuss - and even though I worked for LA at time nothing happen - once in pre school at 3 it took over a year for the preschool to get support - and then only because someone I knew did me a favour and observed him while in preschool for something else - preschool supported him very well - school said - we will do our own assessments - he finally got full statement at 7) So I really struggle to believe the statements about listening to EY professionals

So your point will be raised - thanks for posting - as it is good to be able to say - colleagues - rather than I

Penny :)

Andrea08
05-09-2011, 12:58 PM
Hi, ive just been invited to attend a group on the consultation wed 14th and to vote on areas and the rusults will be forwarded from our LA EYTeam...

im not too sure if i want to go, i dont feel i understand it all enough to have an oppinion on what i think the changes will mean to me,

its a very big doc. and ive tried to see areas that will change the way i work inc changing the areas of L&D to 7 and splitting it into two groups.. although why they need to split it im not sure as we have to do all areas anyway..

wish there was a simple doc to point out the changes and any changes i as a cm need to make and not just the L*D areas and aspects of learning,

i do summerative assessments but feel i need training if i had to do a more formal doc at age 2yrs ... and who but parents are going to read it?

not feeling confident now it took me ages to get use to how EYFS is now after birth to three... lord help me so ill be spending lots of time on the forum getting to grips with it again

xx

Penny1959
05-09-2011, 01:06 PM
Hi, ive just been invited to attend a group on the consultation wed 14th and to vote on areas and the rusults will be forwarded from our LA EYTeam...

im not too sure if i want to go, i dont feel i understand it all enough to have an oppinion on what i think the changes will mean to me,

its a very big doc. and ive tried to see areas that will change the way i work inc changing the areas of L&D to 7 and splitting it into two groups.. although why they need to split it im not sure as we have to do all areas anyway..

wish there was a simple doc to point out the changes and any changes i as a cm need to make and not just the L*D areas and aspects of learning,

i do summerative assessments but feel i need training if i had to do a more formal doc at age 2yrs ... and who but parents are going to read it?

not feeling confident now it took me ages to get use to how EYFS is now after birth to three... lord help me so ill be spending lots of time on the forum getting to grips with it again

xx

Hello Andrea

Yes it is a very big document - however if you are able to go to the meeting please do - your comments made in your post are very valid - especially about the need to have the main changes highlighted.

Also Playmate and myself will beproviding some feedback after the meeting with DfE - and that might be helpful for you if you meet with your LA.

Penny :)

Andrea08
05-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Hello Andrea

Yes it is a very big document - however if you are able to go to the meeting please do - your comments made in your post are very valid - especially about the need to have the main changes highlighted.

Also Playmate and myself will beproviding some feedback after the meeting with DfE - and that might be helpful for you if you meet with your LA.

Penny :)

thanks ill look out for your post x or if you could pm me a link that would be even better xxx