Non-payment

[liz252]

Hi everyone, I'm in a tricky situation at the mo so thought I'd pick your brains! :) Oh, its my first post too so be nice to me!!

Well, I've been looking after a baby for 7 weeks now, and as of yet, have still had no payment of November's fees. I send out all my invoices on the last day of the moment & it specifically says payment within 14 days. Now, all my other clients have always paid within this time so I'd never thought of doing it another way - I guess I've just been lucky.

So, this baby's mum, well about a day before the 14 days were up she said she didn't have a cheque book and could we do something else. So I wrote down our account details for her & she said she'd do an internet transfer. A week later she's said that she must have put the details in wrong as it's come back to her, so I said fine, she could bring cash round yesterday evening. I then text her to say I was out at 7pm so when would she be round - she text she'd pop it in an envelope then. Then after 7 I get a text saying she hasn't got an envelope but would drop it round early this morning. Well, you guessed it, it's not appeared yet and I have called her but got no response. So, payment is no 7 days later than the 14 days I ask for it in in the first place.

SO, where do I go from here??? I have contracts signed by her and am a member of NCMA, what would you do in this situation?? The baby comes to me 2 days a week & is an absolute dream, it would appear that her mum is a bit scatty however! BUT, we all work for a living and as of yet I'm not being paid for November and the end of December is looming which means another invoice going out.

Now, I do have contact with the baby's Dad who picks her up from me on Thurs evenings but I'm thinking I'll keep him out of it for a while because really the agreement is between me & the Mum.

I suppose I just need some tips about what to do really .... I do keep thinking this will sort itself out, but as of yet I'm £230 down & cant seem to get my hands on it!

Thanks for listening, Liz xx

[manjay]

What a horrid situation to be in just before christmas! I don't have much advice really as I have only been registered a couple of months and my payment terms are in advance or no childcare!

Hopefully some of the others may be able to help more

Amanda xx

[liz252]

Thanks for replying anyway! It's a tricky one, although the 'just before xmas' bit doesn't bother me as much as the general awkwardness, possible confrontation and the fact that I love looking after the baby & dont want it to stop! BUT, it is a business, and she's taking the micky at the moment quite frankly ....

The baby is next due on Monday so I will try not to stew on it over the weekend & see what happens then! Liz x

[manjay]

Sounds like lots of little excuses to me to postpone payment!

I am sure the others will be along later to give some advice.

Amanda xx

[angeldelight]

Hi Liz

First of all welcome to the forum hope you will enjoy it here

I agree it is a horrible situation to be in just before christmas and it is not fair of the parent to put you in this situation

Do you charge late fees - I guess you do not if you have not been in this situation before - maybe you never saw the need
After christmas I would consider letting all parents know that you charge late fees for every day that payment is late

I can understand this parent being scatty but you have been more than understanding now

When will you see her again have you finished for christmas?

You are going to have to be very blunt I think you obviously need this money yourself too

I would call her I would not bother with text messages it is easy for her to tell you any story that way

I would call her and say that you need paying NOW

I decided a long time ago after I had problems like this that my rule was no fees - no childminding - it soon makes the parent think twice about not paying you

Bit of a pain for you now though if you have finished for christmas

It also depends if you really need this child or are you prepared to let her off just this once - the only problem then is that you carry on minding and risk her not paying you next time also so then she owes you more money

If it was me I would give her the benefit of the doubt although I think you have been more than kind - then I would give her 5 days to pay me if she did not I would suspend childminding until I was paid

You do not want to work for nothing do you and that could easily happen

To be honest I would also mention it to the dad in a nice way asking him to remind her to pop your payment round

I would call her and offer to go around for it - she does not have to worry about envelopes and such rubbish then does she

Good luck will you let us know how it goes

Angel xx

[Shirlwith3]

I was in a simular situation when I first started minding my full time child for some reason they thought I charged in arrears which I don't I also charge £10 if fees are 3 days late which I have charged them for and since then it has never been late, Jan fees were going to be late as they are in Australia till the 9th jan so they have arranged a bank transfer so it is not late.

I too think you should have a late payment charge and have words with the dad if you don't get is sorted the amount that the mum owes you will get high and she could have problems paying the full amount.

[ajs]

i totally agree with angel late payment fees and call round to collect but DO NOT look after the baby until it's sorted as she's taking the mickey
no envelope indeed


also don't get dad involved if mum signed the contract as your legal dealings are only with mum i had a similar problem and had to call the ncma legal help line their advice was not to deal with the person who hadn't signed the contract if you see what i mean
if mum signed ncma legal will only step in if you only deal with mum but if both signed then talking to dad would be fine

good luck though

[Spangles]

That's awful Liz.

I think I would have to contact the mother first thing tomorrow and say that unfortunately you are unable to care for the baby on Monday unless you receive FULL payment as soon as she arrives. This is ridiculous and shows a total lack of respect on her part.

I would also give her notice that payments would be in advance from now on, issue an invoice five days before the payment is due and make sure the invoice states clearly when the due date is. Also, make it clear that you will have to charge late fees for any late payments from now on and maybe if payment is more than 3 days late you will have to cease care immediately until it's paid?

She is totally taking the mickey, her excuses are just that 'excuses' and you are running a business not a charity.

I don't envy you being in this situation but it's not your fault, she's put you in it, not you.

Good luck! Let us know what you do and what happens.

[liz252]

Hiya, thanks for all your replies, it makes me feel a lot better :)

Well, firstly I've decided not to involve the Dad because I didn't mention that they're not together anymore - he just picks the baby up on Thursdays to see her.

However, I'm going to keep quiet this weekend & assume someone will bring the baby to me on Monday as arranged. At that point I will tell the person - whether it's the Mum, Dad or Grandma - that I cant take the baby today until I've been paid in full for my November charges. If that means someone other than the Mum taking the baby away for the day then so be it, maybe they will have more luck with her!

I'm also going to spend this weekend updating my contract between her & changing it to either a month in advance starting from 1st January, or even payment every Monday for that week. That will then cover me if she ever decides to cancel without a notice period - and anything is possible!

If she doesn't turn up on Monday as planned then I will probably go marching round her house (she only lives down the road) and batter the place down (joke!), no, but I will certainly go round there personally.

Ultimately, I just want to be paid, get it sorted for the future & hope to still have the baby every week because she's a lovely little thing & we'd all miss her otherwise. I also genuinely really like the Mum, Dad & Grandma so it'd be a shame to lose touch over something that firstly isn't my fault, and secondly was totally avoidable.

Phew, essay over - I'm off to have a breezer & chill out :jump for joy: Liz x

[fionamal]

You go Girl!

Its your money and youve worked hard for it.

[Pipsqueak]

Hope you get it sorted. You have been more than patient. You are a business first and foremost.
Personally I wouldn't leave it till after the weekend - I would make the phone call tomorrow morning and just ask if there is a problem with payment as she is now xxxx days behind on payment. If there is a problem with payment perhaps you could suggest paying half immediately (no more excuses) and half just after Christmas BUT until payment is brought up to date you cannot provide a childcare service. Again this way you have been more than fair. You can point out that She has signed an NCMA legally binding contract and if payment (or some schedule is not worked out and put on paper and signed for by both of you) you have no choice but to contact NCMA legal team and seek further advice.
If she says there is no problem - request that payment is made in FULL by Monday morning BEFORE you will accept the child for your minding service (again point out she is in breach of a legal contract) and give her times and when she can drop of the money or offer her the alternative of you going round.

If there is no money forthwith make sure you take legal advice from NCMA immediately.

Good luck I hope you get it sorted.

xx

[sarah707]

I'm coming into this one late Liz (been shopping), but just wanted to say I agree with Vik - I would never turn a baby / child away on the doorstep.

I would contact the mother over the weekend and make it clear - no money, no care on Monday morning. If she takes a huff and leaves, you can go via NCMA or small claims to try and get your money - and you're no worse off without her as a customer, if you're not getting paid anyway.

Good luck!

[bubbly]

I can't offer advice as I'm a newbie to minding but wanted to say I totally agree with what everyone else has said. No envelope indeedy! A flipping piece of tinfoil would've done the trick!! I hope you get it sorted and get to keep the baby (not literally!). Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[mrsbumbles]

I had a cheque bounce on me once, i was'nt brave enough to speak over the phone, i took the cowards way out and txt them ,saying i required my payment, or else the childs place would be cancelled and would not be available on Monday.They called back straight away and told me that they would be around within the next hour. True to their word they were on the doorstep with the cash in their hands. It worked for me.

[susi513]

I've heard that you cannot refuse to provide childcare - even if the parent has breached the terms of the contract it doesn't give the childminder the right not to follow the terms agreed. Unless you have a specific phrase in your contract allowing you to terminate without notice or withhold services for non-payment you can be sued for the parent's loss of earnings, I'm told.

If using NCMA contracts, do get their advice before withholding childcare.

Its a good idea to review your contract for January. You could include a Late Payment Fee (mine is £5 per day plus any additional costs I incur as a result of the late payment). I think you might need to have a long discussion with mum before signing new contract/part of contract review. You could start off with explaining about how important it is for childminders to know they can rely on parents prompt payments. Late payments make it impossible to budget and put your whole business in jeopardy. I would make clear that, with payment in full and her agreement to pay in full on OR BEFORE the agreed date I would be happy to put this behind us and move on. But any further late payments and I would be forced to terminate the contract. Then when you've got the hard part out of the way, continue & finish the meeting with positive discussion about how well child is settling in etc.

Good luck with sorting this out. Its unfortunate that a lot of parents either don't consider the importance of paying on time or are so disorganised they can't manage to do it.

[Pipsqueak]

This is what I have in my policies:

"We all suffer cash flow problems from time to time. I would appreciate your honest and open communication should you feel there may be a delay in payment, we may be able to come to an agreement schedule.
Repeated late and non payment are grounds for terminating a contract immediately and I will pursue monies owed through legal channels if necessary.

I reserve the right to refuse to care for your child until outstanding monies are paid. During refusal of care - the retainer rate will be charged. A non-payment fee of £5.00 PER DAY will be incurred as well, to cover any costs I suffer through non-payment. I will seek further assistance (ie/ legal channels) to recover monies owed if necessary

The discussion of money is never an easy one, please make it as easy as possible for all parties and pay promptly.

Please consider how you would feel and the effects you would suffer if your employer told you on payday that your wages will be late"

I also state on the bottom of EACH page of the policies that by signing the contract they are agreeing to abide by the Policies. I obtain a signature to say that they have received, read and understood the Policies. On the box on page 2 of the contracts I write in there (before they sign and I point it out) "By signing the contract they are agreeing to abide by my Policies and that they have received, read and understood the document" and that by signing the Policies have now become part of the Contract they are signing. (This was done under NCMA advice)

Susi you are right when you say you cannot refuse childcare (again from NCMA) UNLESS you have it pre-written into your contract. Hence the reason I have no included my Policies on the actual contract.

[liz252]

A conclusion .... of sorts!

Well, I must have had my brave pants on today because I decided to drop by & see her on my way to the shops - the benefits of her living down the road! Anyway, so I put in my bag her contract & my new late payment policy & walked down & knocked on the door. She answered & understandably looked a bit shocked, but I just said could I come in for a chat & she was fine about it.

Basically, who knows what's the truth, but, she was really sorry, close to tears & said there's just been problems at her bank & she knows it was wrong not to call me but things just got on top of her. She said she had £110 ready for me and would I accept that & she'd bring the rest of it round tomorrow morning with the baby as usual (as the dad was bringing the money over later) to which I said it was fine, and I never wanted to fall out over it, was just glad to clear the air & we'll forget all about this incident (assuming it turns up tomorrow!) She said she'd set up a standing order as soon as the bank issues were sorted and that it wouldn't happen again.

So ..... I am reasonably happy, feel very pleased with how it went, and whilst I didn't have a complete go at her, I think it shows that I wont just sit there when things go wrong. Plus I have £110 which is great! I'll give her a couple of weeks to get things sorted & then produce my late payment policy & get everyone to sign it & fingers crossed it wont happen again.

Many thanks for all your advice, I definitely would have done things differently if I hadn't listened to some other views so a problem shared is definitely the way to do it!

Cheers, Liz xx :jump for joy:

[Tily Bud]

Well done Liz :thumbsup:

[ajs]

well done any money is better than none and it does show that you are serious about following up with debts

this time last year one of my mum's owed me £600 mostly due to bounced cheques and her failing to be honest with me.
i made the decision not to give notice as i thought and probably correctly that she would never pay if she had to send him somewhere else and pay there too

anyway to cut a very long story short we came to an agreement and she paid me more than my weekly fee each week and by april we were sorted, it was the right thing for me to do then. it would depend on the family circumcumstances whether i would do it again though.

[Cammie Doodle]

I too had monies owed to me and took in installments, not ideal, but at least that way I did get it :clapping: :thumbsup: June

[bubbly]

Glad to hear you got it sorted.