View Full Version : 4 year olds in full time school
manjay
05-05-2011, 04:57 PM
I have had some discussions today with NCMA and CSSIW about the fact that the allowance for us to class 4 year olds who are in full time school as over 5 which has been removed from the National Minimum Standards.
NCMA Cymru are taking it up with CSSIW but my own CSSIW office have confirmed that it is an error that it is not included!!! Apparently it was on the draft document that was agreed but never quite managed to make it on to the finished product. They have a few of these mistakes which means there will be some updates to the NMS when they work out what they all are. This has been confirmed by the Team Manager for North Wales.
Anyway I am now quite happy I am not working illegally by classing my 4 yr old ds as 5:rolleyes:
My booked First Aid course that should have run over the next 2 Saturdays has also been amended to 1 Saturday now the requirement for 12 hour paediatric first aid has been removed. I do hope this is not something they change and then I have to re-do it:D
I am attending a meeting with CSSIW on 16th May so if anyone has anything else they would like clarification on let me know and I will ask.
tilly2
05-05-2011, 05:53 PM
Hiya Manjay!!
You wouldn't be a lv and clarify the one about employing assistants, i keep getting conflicting reports from them, does the assistant have to be registered as a CM in their own right before they can work for you to beable to increase your numbers?
thanks muchly xx:jump for joy:
manjay
05-05-2011, 06:42 PM
Hiya Manjay!!
You wouldn't be a lv and clarify the one about employing assistants, i keep getting conflicting reports from them, does the assistant have to be registered as a CM in their own right before they can work for you to beable to increase your numbers?
thanks muchly xx:jump for joy:
Polly2 may be able to answer this one for you as she has just done this. If not I am quite happy to ask:D
webbthomas
07-05-2011, 07:18 PM
I have had some discussions today with NCMA and CSSIW about the fact that the allowance for us to class 4 year olds who are in full time school as over 5 which has been removed from the National Minimum Standards.
NCMA Cymru are taking it up with CSSIW but my own CSSIW office have confirmed that it is an error that it is not included!!! Apparently it was on the draft document that was agreed but never quite managed to make it on to the finished product. They have a few of these mistakes which means there will be some updates to the NMS when they work out what they all are. This has been confirmed by the Team Manager for North Wales.
Anyway I am now quite happy I am not working illegally by classing my 4 yr old ds as 5:rolleyes:
My booked First Aid course that should have run over the next 2 Saturdays has also been amended to 1 Saturday now the requirement for 12 hour paediatric first aid has been removed. I do hope this is not something they change and then I have to re-do it:D
I am attending a meeting with CSSIW on 16th May so if anyone has anything else they would like clarification on let me know and I will ask.
Hi Manjay
Could you ask for clarification on 24.18 and whether we do need PAT testing, also 24.21 - "fire exits are clearly identified ..." - could this be expanded on please??
Thanks very much.
Polly2
08-05-2011, 08:05 AM
Hiya Manjay!!
You wouldn't be a lv and clarify the one about employing assistants, i keep getting conflicting reports from them, does the assistant have to be registered as a CM in their own right before they can work for you to beable to increase your numbers?
thanks muchly xx:jump for joy:
Hi
According to my local office you can employ an assistant and increase your numbers. Mine have increased from 4 to 6 and when working with my daughter all 6 can be under 5 (4 under 18mths).
BUT as an assistant she can't be left alone with the children so for instance you could not leave your assistant at home while you did a school pick up.
This works for me as I don't have any after schoolies but may be difficult for some.
HTH
:thumbsup:
tilly2
10-05-2011, 06:29 PM
Hiya!! that sounds ok I'll look into it thanks again!:clapping:
Hi
You can leave your assistant alone with children as long as they have done the 12 hour first aid, crb check, ofsted approved and you have written consent from the parents too,
hope this helps xxx
sarah707
10-05-2011, 09:03 PM
Hi
You can leave your assistant alone with children as long as they have done the 12 hour first aid, crb check, ofsted approved and you have written consent from the parents too,
hope this helps xxx
Yes you can in England! :thumbsup:
In Wales childminders have to meet the requirements of CSSIW and a different set of standards which are new and causing a few headaches at the moment.
Hth :D
lol, maybe i should have read that the thread was for wales and not england, lol, :blush: :blush: :blush: sorry, not sure where my head is at the mo xxxx
I have had some discussions today with NCMA and CSSIW about the fact that the allowance for us to class 4 year olds who are in full time school as over 5 which has been removed from the National Minimum Standards.
NCMA Cymru are taking it up with CSSIW but my own CSSIW office have confirmed that it is an error that it is not included!!! Apparently it was on the draft document that was agreed but never quite managed to make it on to the finished product. They have a few of these mistakes which means there will be some updates to the NMS when they work out what they all are. This has been confirmed by the Team Manager for North Wales.
Anyway I am now quite happy I am not working illegally by classing my 4 yr old ds as 5:rolleyes:
My booked First Aid course that should have run over the next 2 Saturdays has also been amended to 1 Saturday now the requirement for 12 hour paediatric first aid has been removed. I do hope this is not something they change and then I have to re-do it:D
I am attending a meeting with CSSIW on 16th May so if anyone has anything else they would like clarification on let me know and I will ask.
anymore info about the 4year old not being classed as a 5 year old ???
manjay
27-06-2011, 11:40 AM
anymore info about the 4year old not being classed as a 5 year old ???
All the queries and concerns have been fed back to WAG and their policy officials are working through them currently. It is not something that is going to happen overnight but NCMA Cymru have stressed the importance of getting it sorted as quickly as possible. I will let you know when I have any more information.
amanda x
All the queries and concerns have been fed back to WAG and their policy officials are working through them currently. It is not something that is going to happen overnight but NCMA Cymru have stressed the importance of getting it sorted as quickly as possible. I will let you know when I have any more information.
amanda x
thanks amanda...my cssiw inspector told me 2 /3 weeks ago that due to the new nms that *i* {or anyone else, cannot refer to them as rising 5's as they will still be in my numbers...which is stipid as they are full time!!..I have 1 shift worker who will be 5 in november so come sept there may be chance now i may go over numbers because i took on a little one a feww weeks ago {before convo with insp.} but surely i will miss out as he will not be a full time wage but only before & after school,.....the thing is they expected us to know all this and i know a lot of cms around here dont have the new nms or dont know about the rising 5's issue so are probably working over their numbers, because cssiw have not updated us and left us to find out for ourselves.
It's only because of this forum i knew anything...
sorry waffled lol.
manjay
27-06-2011, 01:27 PM
CSSIW have written to all childminders advising of the NMS and then the onus is on each childminder to investigate and download them. They are holding briefing sessions all over the country to go through them and so far I have been invited to 3 in my area.
It is NCMA who are doing all the work behind the scenes to get the amendments in as soon as possible and they have publicised quite heavily in who minds that the standards have changed. I obviously have it in writing that my inspector is happy with my 4 year olds being classed as 5 but until clear guidance is given there is bound to be some inspectors who interpret it differently.
Lets just hope they get it sorted quickly
a x
CSSIW have written to all childminders advising of the NMS and then the onus is on each childminder to investigate and download them. They are holding briefing sessions all over the country to go through them and so far I have been invited to 3 in my area.
It is NCMA who are doing all the work behind the scenes to get the amendments in as soon as possible and they have publicised quite heavily in who minds that the standards have changed. I obviously have it in writing that my inspector is happy with my 4 year olds being classed as 5 but until clear guidance is given there is bound to be some inspectors who interpret it differently.
Lets just hope they get it sorted quickly
a x
nothing around here, I went to my friends last week and we sorted it out between us, im getting mine sorted as she is due anytime now, and my friend is going through hers slowly......just a quickie, does she need to send all the copies of new policies to her or just the ones that are important ie statement of purpose etc?
is there anything 'online' that i can read and print off to show my inspector regarding this? if not dont worry..
manjay
27-06-2011, 07:51 PM
nothing around here, I went to my friends last week and we sorted it out between us, im getting mine sorted as she is due anytime now, and my friend is going through hers slowly......just a quickie, does she need to send all the copies of new policies to her or just the ones that are important ie statement of purpose etc?
is there anything 'online' that i can read and print off to show my inspector regarding this? if not dont worry..
No there isn't anything online sorry but NCMA will put it on their website as soon as they have an update. I have spoken to Cardiff this morning and they are pushing for it to be sorted as soon as possible. I guess at the end of the day CSSIW would have such an enormous problem if they decided that hundreds of childminders were working illegally;) in fact I am doing it right now:thumbsup:
No there isn't anything online sorry but NCMA will put it on their website as soon as they have an update. I have spoken to Cardiff this morning and they are pushing for it to be sorted as soon as possible. I guess at the end of the day CSSIW would have such an enormous problem if they decided that hundreds of childminders were working illegally;) in fact I am doing it right now:thumbsup:
only just saw your reply :blush:
thank you, well i will be for all of 10 days if they keep it like that as mindee is moving into reception in sept and as he is a shift worker....hoping to speak to my inspector when she comes out.
x
RachelM
28-07-2011, 08:46 AM
Hello - I am a Childminder from South Wales and I was unable to speak to my allocated Inspector due to holiday, when I rang my local CSSIW office a week ago, but was told by another Inspector that I was not allowed to class my two four years olds as over five until they are five!
One is a child already on my books and the second is a new contract ready for September. I have now lost two other contracts for all day care as they needed me until 17:00 and because we are only allowed three under fives, I couldn't take them on as I have a three year old daughter.
I have nobody on my books during the day and only two school runs now because they've said NO!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
manjay
28-07-2011, 01:31 PM
Hello - I am a Childminder from South Wales and I was unable to speak to my allocated Inspector due to holiday, when I rang my local CSSIW office a week ago, but was told by another Inspector that I was not allowed to class my two four years olds as over five until they are five!
One is a child already on my books and the second is a new contract ready for September. I have now lost two other contracts for all day care as they needed me until 17:00 and because we are only allowed three under fives, I couldn't take them on as I have a three year old daughter.
I have nobody on my books during the day and only two school runs now because they've said NO!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
This makes me so cross!! I have been assured that this has been relayed to all CSSIW offices. There is absolutely no sense in this imo! There will be lots of childminders who end up not having a financialy viable business.
I am meeting with the Director of NCMA Cymru next week and this is definitely on my agenda.
xx
boxtree7
28-07-2011, 01:45 PM
this all sounds very unfair ....
This makes me so cross!! I have been assured that this has been relayed to all CSSIW offices. There is absolutely no sense in this imo! There will be lots of childminders who end up not having a financialy viable business.
I am meeting with the Director of NCMA Cymru next week and this is definitely on my agenda.
xx
im hoping my inspector comes at the end of the 3 months when the ncma have changed the cssiw's minds :rolleyes:....
my 1 child is 5 in oct but he is a shift worker but will be over my numbers for him on a few days, where it could just be for a morning until he goes to school, or afternoon after school...:panic:
Polly2
28-07-2011, 02:14 PM
Hello - I am a Childminder from South Wales and I was unable to speak to my allocated Inspector due to holiday, when I rang my local CSSIW office a week ago, but was told by another Inspector that I was not allowed to class my two four years olds as over five until they are five!
One is a child already on my books and the second is a new contract ready for September. I have now lost two other contracts for all day care as they needed me until 17:00 and because we are only allowed three under fives, I couldn't take them on as I have a three year old daughter.
I have nobody on my books during the day and only two school runs now because they've said NO!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
This is awful Rachel :( I really hope we have some clarification soon
tulip0803
28-07-2011, 02:25 PM
We need to have clarification quickly but unfortunately the wheels at CSSIW go very slowly:(
Mel_Johnson
28-07-2011, 02:26 PM
There seems to be no consistency. I spoke to my inspector 2 weeks ago and she said I was fine to count my 4 year in full time school as an over 5. If this is not the case I will be over my numbers in Sept.
manjay
28-07-2011, 02:40 PM
There seems to be no consistency. I spoke to my inspector 2 weeks ago and she said I was fine to count my 4 year in full time school as an over 5. If this is not the case I will be over my numbers in Sept.
This is the message that is supposed to have been relayed to all CSSIW offices. It is what my local office are advising minders. Unfortunately the change process is with DCELLS at the moment who are the organisation that produce the NMS documents. Can't completely blame CSSIW for this one;)
brightstar
28-07-2011, 02:55 PM
My inspector told me yesterday that they were advising all Childminders to write to CSSIW confirming if they had under 5's in full time school. She also advised me to register an assistant to stop myself going over my numbers. But she was really vague about it, I think she knew about as much as I did. As children here start school the term before their fourth birthday I will be losing a lot of money, especially if I have to pay an assistant.