Urgent Advice Needed

[VINASOL]

mindee (4) has returned to naughty ways and mum has returned to not reading daily contact book or having any time to discuss her daughter's progress.

I texted mum to say wanted to chat wtih her for 5 minutes after pick up re behaviour....it flippin ended up with a discussion via text (which i hate), but end result was that she did not want to disucss behaviour in front of mindee...did nto want to chat after school and wanted to discuss next week:eek:

I tried to explain that mindee needed to see us working together on the same page and that way mindee will know where she is at. When mindee is naughty at home, she gets a smack and sent to her room. At nursery (foudn out today), she gets shouted out (manager said that she is very stern to a point of agressive :eek: ) and mindee does what she is told (mind you, so would I).

Now, I can't to either of those things. I am quite stern but I do not shout. I put her on the t/o bench and she laughs. She laughs in my face :panic: ...Behaviour today:

* pushed another mindee out of the way to get to the front door resulting in an upset mindee;
* kicked loads of water out of a puddle directly at mindee getting her soaked and full of mud in the face;
* nearly fell off a little chair (which has bars underneath) as she had managed to put her legs in the bars and got stuck and practically fell off;
* for some reason decided to (whilst I was cutting fruit up during lunch) put both legs through my expanding table and her whole body was practically through (after being told to sit nicely as she struggles to sit still), thankfully I saw her in time because I hate to imagine what would have happened if she had slid off that chair (a broken leg/bakc?);
* calls mindee and DD babies and other silly names (whicih sound silly in itself but day after day...);
* snatches toys from mindee and DD or will scream when somone else picks up a toy and she can't have it.

I did previoiusly give notice to mum, but mum begged me to keep her on until July. I want to do a sort of behaviour plan for her but don't know where to begin.

Why do you think mindee is like this with me and not at nursery? OK, it's a different setting completely but i'm totally fed up of the fights, cries, and screams this girl causes.

What shall I say to mum? please help:mad:

[The Juggler]

ok firstly sorry to hear she is behaving like this again hon.

However, I think I agree with mum that your initial discussion should not be in front of mindee. I think it would be good for you and mum to set out a plan and then share it with mindee together so she knows you are on same page.

BUT it not acceptable to leave it to next week. Tell mum that you need to speak today either at pick up of on the phone tonight. Is the behaviour so harmful it is a danger to you or the other mindees? If so tell mum you will have to exclude her until mum has time to talk. If it's just these constant pushing the boundaries then tell mum that unless she has time to talk tonight you will have to think about re-issuing the notice and that you withdrew the notice on the basis you were going to work in partnerhsip to improve the behaviour but you can't do this if she can't make the time to meet.

However, meantime hon, breath and stay positive. ignore the little things (choose your battles) if she is being silly at the table, just simply remove her and don't let her sit back up until she says she will sit at table nicely - no t/o just tell her she needs to come back when ready. Obviously you have to deal with pushing and snatching but try to ignore the lesser ones for now :D

[Pipsqueak]

I agree with Juggler

Tell mum that the chat needs to be asap ie/ today or tomorrow

I would also seriously consider if you want to carry on with the contract... you say you gave notice once before and mum pulled up her socks..

I would say perhaps you are going to set small targets for improvement otherwise you will have no choice but to.....

depends what you want from this.

[Helen79]

I wouldn't speak about behaviour in front of the mindee either, maybe arrange a time to phone mum and discuss it over the phone if she can't speak to you before next week.


nearly fell off a little chair (which has bars underneath) as she had managed to put her legs in the bars and got stuck and practically fell off;
* for some reason decided to (whilst I was cutting fruit up during lunch) put both legs through my expanding table and her whole body was practically through (after being told to sit nicely as she struggles to sit still), thankfully I saw her in time because I hate to imagine what would have happened if she had slid off that chair (a broken leg/bakc?);

These things I wouldn't really see as being naughty. She shouldn't have done them but I don't see this as something to be told off about. Maybe they say that she behaves at nursery as they have different expectations of behaviour (although I do think that shouting at nursery children shouldn't be happening, I would speak to the manager about their behaviour management policy and perhaps speak to ofsted about it too)

Maybe have a think about behaviours that you want to change and choose your battles over which ones to speak to mum about and tackle together.
Choose 1 or 2 instead of trying to change them all at once and then follow on from there in tackling the rest. Mum is more likely to get on board in dealing with the behaviour if she's not overwhelmed with loads of different issues to deal with at once.

[VINASOL]

I will see mum at pick-up. am not meeting her next week. she needs to find the time to discuss it.

this week has been horrendous...she upsets the girls every day; and she is destructive too...she finds it hard to sit for just five minutes (there was a loose stitch on my leather sofa which she undid and pulled it so hard that about 10 stitches came out - I saw her do it but she denied ever touching the thread)...I don't trust mum to speak to her (last time was a nightmare) which is why I want to sit down with mindee together. Her speaking to her, and me speaking to her...I do not know what mum says to her. For me personally, mindee needs to see both of us together.

My DD and other mindee don't actually like this girl either as she is so mean to them and DD has said that she doesn't want her coming any more.

What do I want out of it? I guess I am hoping to manage until July and then that will be it, but I'm not sure I can.

What I struggle with is, how can i discipline when she laughs....I only have the one room and she treats it as a game

[mummyof3]

Without parental support I really don't see how you will be able to make a difference to this little one sadly :angry:

[Goatgirl]

:cool: Hi :),
Sorry you are having to go through this again :(.
I think Mum should be more supportive as you have done her the massive favour of withdrawing notice once already. I agree with Juggler, that if Mum hasn't got time to sit down with you to discuss the issues as they occur, you should exclude until she has :thumbsup: If you approach her again and still feel she is not playing ball, I'd just re issue notice. Mum needs you to be firm too by the sound of it.

I'd also, if you decide to soldier on, give a definite trial period at the meeting when it does happen, with immediate notice to be served if things don't improve. The LO certainly seems to be behaving in a way that puts herself in danger and potentially others if she has no qualms pushing them over, deliberately splashing them with mud etc. It is bullying at least. If you are really at the end of your tether and don't want to try any more, given the Mum's attitude I think I would cite this as reason for immediate termination and just refund any advance payment you have recieved. (if you can afford it).

You say the behaviour has returned: was there a period of calm positive behaviour? Has something changed? I know with one of my own children (little angel) I hardly noticed her when she was 'good', so she'd get bored waiting and mis behave so I'd notice her again. (not saying you've done this, just wondering why the regression.)


If Mum comes back on board and you decide to soldier on....
I would continue with time out's. We have a thinking spot, I use the oven timer to time one minute per year for each child, I ignore the child completely during the time, giving lots of positive attention to the other children.

If Lo gets to the end of the time out still misbehaving, I'd put her straight back in it :rolleyes: . I find they do get bored just sitting without an audience but one lot of thinking time might not be quite enough to calm down properly. They seem to get quite 'high' with the excitement of showing off. 2 lots of thinking time usually is enough though... After the first chance if they can say sorry nicely and return calmly to rejoin the others I congratulate them and carry on as though nothing happened.

I'd also come down hard on any and everything she does which she knows is unacceptable and put every last ounce of energy into appearing calm and unfazed on the outside however stressed I felt on the inside. Not easy, but if she knows she's winding you up that may well encourage her.

Anyway, I'm sure you know all this, but hopefully you can either get back the good behaviour very quickly or make it clear to Mum that you will not be carrying on in difficult circumstance without her cooperation.

Good luck :)

best wishes,
Wendy :)

[VINASOL]

Yes there was a 'calm' period...so much so that I did her this lovely certificate for lovely behaviour (in the hope that it will encourage her even more).

Am sitting here thinking what's going on and I think I may know what it is, but am sure mum will disagree and deny.

Mum is single parent. kids go to dads fortnightly. Mum tends to go 'out' a lot most of the time with the kids and bad behavior is usually associated with tiredness. Mum had asked me to have them for an extra 2 hours 2 days a week whilst she went to the gym (she asked me when she couldn't afford to pay me); she has been getting a 'friend' to look after them but she can't do it anymore.

I think kids are tired and do not get enough of their mum. Her son said somethign strange to me yesterday about a friend of his mums who he called a liar....I asked why and this woman had told mindees mum that he had told her that his mum gets drunk every night....so i think that the honeymoon period (when she got over the shock of finding alternative care) is over and she has fallen back into bad habits.

However, it's hard to say that to a parent as it's all hearsay, but I do see the signs. Whenever I say to mum that X or Y was tired she says oh they went to bed at 7pm last night (do not beleive it)...she's scare dSS will be involved again. I do think the 4yr odl is a bit of a bully but she learns this from her brother.

Am back to square one. Hate it.

[Goatgirl]

Sounds horrible - I do feel for you :( xxx I'm guessing then, that you're just hanging on because you know you're the stability for the children. It must be very disheartening to be taking backward steps when the forward ones take so much out of you.

... maybe it would be better if SS were involved: Mum really doesn't seem to be coping on her own.

Hope the immediate situation resolves soon. There's nothing to stop you walking away and passing your concerns to another agency. The Mum is the one who really needs to change in this situation. Shame we can't put them on the thinking spot :rolleyes:

Do what's best for you. Good luck :)

Wendy :)

[VINASOL]

Had a chat with mum. She said she wasn't happy being told that her child is constantly 'hurting' other children....explained to her that when another parent is complaining about said child hurting her child I need to step in and she needs to be told. I'm sorry that you don't like being told your child is like this - but your child is like this!!

She said that she would expect her child to be more of a problem at nursery not at my house. Firstly, she spends HALF the time at nursery and does not have a 1-2-1 realtionship with the keyworker like she does at my setting....

She said that when her kids are fighting they are told to get on with it and if they get hurt, tough. I'm sorry but YOU can do that. I CAN'T. I am not their mother. I cannot let a problem get out of hand with children in my setting.

I told her that I had previously spoken to nursery manager about all of the girls and that she had witnessed first hand how they are with each other, and she basically said I couldnt' be dealing with it and left them too it....errr I can't do that!

I told her that we will tackle specifically pushing/shoving/snatching and calling children names. I told her that I wanted to meet again in two weeks to discuss her behaviour.

Mum admits that this child has behavioural issues but puts it all down to problems at home with seperated parents etc etc. She doesnt' tell me exactly what's going on but personally I feel that it is a cop out.

Perhaps I am just not cut out for this job and the best thing is just to give up.