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helendee
16-03-2011, 01:58 PM
Mrs O has just left and pulled me up on something I knew nothing about. Are all of you aware that it is a legal requirement for you to see the child's birth certificate to see who the named father is and whether he has parental responsibility? This should be entered on the first page of the NCMA contract form.

I was always under the impression that this only applied to parents who were separated and had joint care of their child.

This misunderstanding cost me a 'Good' rating which I am not too happy about!! Hope this helps some of you avoid the same mistake.

Helen xx:(

rickysmiths
16-03-2011, 02:08 PM
No I have never heard of this, where does it say on page one of the NCMA Contract that you have to have seen the Birth Cert? Nowhere as far as I can see. You just record who has PR. and the parent/parents sign. :thumbsup:

In 17yrs od minding I have never seen one of my mindees Birth Certs.

I would actually phone Ofsted now and ask them and then challenge the inspectors judgement.

Minstrel
16-03-2011, 02:12 PM
I agree it sounds like a 'made up' rule.

Never have i ever seen it written down anywhere that we ave to see the birth certs! :panic:

onceinabluemoon
16-03-2011, 02:13 PM
I've never seen any birth certificates either...

It wasn't even brought up at my inspection.

If I was you I would email OFSTED with a general enquiry asking if you have to have sight of the child's birth certificate as you'd heard it was so but had never seen any official matter on the subject. Dont mention it in any way with your inspection and then see what the reply is before you take it further. If they say no (in writing hence why you email not phone) then you have the basis for a complaint if you have been marked down for it.

helendee
16-03-2011, 02:13 PM
She showed me a paragraph in the EYFS booklet about ascertaining who has parental responsibility but I just assumed that if the mother had signed and stated who she was happy to have collect her child, then all was ok.

Am going to phone Ofsted to get some clarification on this.

onceinabluemoon
16-03-2011, 02:14 PM
email them hun (see post above, cross posted) x

Chimps Childminding
16-03-2011, 02:22 PM
I have never heard of it before!!! Surely we can't demand to see birth certificates, we should just take what we are told by the parents as being true:rolleyes:

Donkey
16-03-2011, 02:27 PM
accredited childminders have to see a birth certificate to check the date of birth to see if the child is elligible but I thought asking the parents about p.r was sufficient...

bexcee
16-03-2011, 02:30 PM
accredited childminders have to see a birth certificate to check the date of birth to see if the child is elligible but I thought asking the parents about p.r was sufficient...

I can understand that if you are applying for the funding but otherwise I can't see why and it's up to the parents to tell the truth and sign the contract which is a legal document.

I would be challenging it especially if that was the only thing stopping you from getting a good grade.

nic t
16-03-2011, 02:33 PM
Omg, I'm fuming for you!!! :angry:

Yet another case of luck of the draw with who you get inspecting?

Did she give you an action? If not can't see how this could affect your overall grade and even if she did I would be disputing it.

Also thought that contracts had nothing to do with Ofsted?

How many of us have ever been pulled up on this? Ludicrous?!!!

helendee
16-03-2011, 02:35 PM
Hi Nic
Yes she gave me an action on it for four weeks from now.

I have just phoned Ofsted for clarification and am waiting for an Inspector to call me back.

I will keep you all updated. x

PixiePetal
16-03-2011, 02:36 PM
In 16 years of minding I have never seen a birth certificate for any child.

Ofsted never asked at my inspection either and as far as I know none of my CM friends have been asked either :rolleyes:

I would question it. As there is no requirement to use NCMA contracts how can we be told to fill it in on the page there?

wendywu
16-03-2011, 02:36 PM
I know parents have to declare who has PR and we have to know that information.

I think there have been forms posted on here.

But i have never ever heard that we have to ask to see BC. So ladies if Mrs O asked if we have seen them just nod and smile :)

nic t
16-03-2011, 02:45 PM
Hi Nic
Yes she gave me an action on it for four weeks from now.

I have just phoned Ofsted for clarification and am waiting for an Inspector to call me back.

I will keep you all updated. x

We all miss things sometimes but surely if this was a requirement most of us on here would know about it!!! I wonder what criteria she is going to fit it under for the action? She can't just make up her own wording for it.

Also even if she has given an action then it shouldn't necessarily affect your overall grade. Did she say this was why you weren't getting good?

I got 2 actions regarding RAs (won't bore you with it now but I disputed them) yet was still graded good.

Mouse
16-03-2011, 02:54 PM
Have you checked who has parental responsibility for all the children, even those parents who are married or single with no partner? You said you only thought it applied to parents who were separated and had joint care of the children, so maybe that's what she was picking you up on, rather than not having checked birth certificates?

Pipsqueak
16-03-2011, 02:56 PM
Nope never realised that we had to see birth certificates - it that case I am going to say we should all hand back our gradings.

what made up rubbish and I think you should fight this all the way.....

helendee
16-03-2011, 04:00 PM
hi everyone

Just spoken to a really nice Inspector at Ofsted and she is outraged at this mis-information. She said that under no circumstances should we ask to see birth certificates and that if both parents are named on the contract we do not need to supply any more information to Ofsted about parental responsibility, she said that is proof enough.

She advised me to wait for my report to arrive and if the action is still listed to complain against it, she said that she will help me all the way.

Hope I didn't stress anyone out too much. xx

babs
16-03-2011, 04:09 PM
glad they have got back to you and sorted it out fingers crossed your report wont have action on it...

all my parents fill out and sign a PR form even if they are both on contracts if just one parent on they still fill out details of other parent....

loocyloo
16-03-2011, 05:01 PM
hi everyone

Just spoken to a really nice Inspector at Ofsted and she is outraged at this mis-information. She said that under no circumstances should we ask to see birth certificates and that if both parents are named on the contract we do not need to supply any more information to Ofsted about parental responsibility, she said that is proof enough.

She advised me to wait for my report to arrive and if the action is still listed to complain against it, she said that she will help me all the way.

Hope I didn't stress anyone out too much. xx

so glad you got a helpful inspector. i was :eek: at having to ask to see childrens birth certificates!

i do give parents a form about PR, and ask them to fill it in, but can i make them? !!! they all do, and currently all my children have two parents with PR, but should one parent not wish to sign/not be involved in the care of the child, how should i know?!

caz3007
16-03-2011, 05:08 PM
Glad you have someone from Ofsted on your side.

I have a mum who hasnt put dad on the PR form. I know from the LO that dad lives in India cos he likes it there :laughing: so cant see him knocking on my door, but wonder where I would stand if Ofsted challenged me about it. Surely I cant make her fill in his details. We do have a bit of a language difficulty as mum is eastern european and sometimes we both get confused :D

rickysmiths
16-03-2011, 06:10 PM
Mrs O has just left and pulled me up on something I knew nothing about. Are all of you aware that it is a legal requirement for you to see the child's birth certificate to see who the named father is and whether he has parental responsibility? This should be entered on the first page of the NCMA contract form.

I was always under the impression that this only applied to parents who were separated and had joint care of their child.

This misunderstanding cost me a 'Good' rating which I am not too happy about!! Hope this helps some of you avoid the same mistake.

Helen xx:(



Having just read the notes on the back of the NCMA contract I think they have it wrong.

I have details for every family on my books with reguard to PR. If a couple are married or in a stable relationship it is easy because as long as the father is named on the Birth Cert then they both have PR. If I have a single parent family I ask who has PR and they sign or the onee parent does a form confirming this.

I don't usually have the Contract signed by the absent parent because they are just that, even though the lo may spend weekends etc I have no relationship to this parent and the Contract is with the other parent only. In fact I have one lo where I knew the Dad in the past but he did a runner 3yrs ago and his family haven't seen him since. It would be impossible to have him sign anything.

keeks
16-03-2011, 06:39 PM
I was given a "Childcare registration forms" info sheet from my childminding co-ordinator last week. Today I looked at it and saw that it says you have to gather the following information, then a list of lots of things, including this bullet point:

Child's date of birth (have you seen the child's birth certificate?)

I know at the nursery they had to see them, so I thought perhaps it is right.

It doesn't sound like it though after your talk with the lovely inspector.

Glad it sounds like you're getting it sorted, well done!

xx

Helen79
16-03-2011, 06:50 PM
dd has been to 3 nurseries and ds is at one now and I've never been asked to show birth certificates, even to get the 3 year old funding and wouldn't show them even if did cos it's just not necessary (& I don't even know where they are :blush: )

I've also never filled in a parental responsibility form for nursery either, just emergency contact info with mine and dh's phone number on.
2 of those nurseries have outstanding btw so it seems to be 1 rule for nursery and a different one for cm :rolleyes:

georgie456
16-03-2011, 10:18 PM
hi everyone

Just spoken to a really nice Inspector at Ofsted and she is outraged at this mis-information. She said that under no circumstances should we ask to see birth certificates and that if both parents are named on the contract we do not need to supply any more information to Ofsted about parental responsibility, she said that is proof enough.

She advised me to wait for my report to arrive and if the action is still listed to complain against it, she said that she will help me all the way.

Hope I didn't stress anyone out too much. xx

Well that's all very well but you have been given an action for something that is not required. Why should you have to wait for your report? They should be dealing with this from their end - disgusting! At least she sounded helpful - definitely keep her on speed dial!!!

appleblossom
17-03-2011, 08:14 PM
I was given a "Childcare registration forms" info sheet from my childminding co-ordinator last week. Today I looked at it and saw that it says you have to gather the following information, then a list of lots of things, including this bullet point:

Child's date of birth (have you seen the child's birth certificate?)

I know at the nursery they had to see them, so I thought perhaps it is right.

It doesn't sound like it though after your talk with the lovely inspector.

Glad it sounds like you're getting it sorted, well done!

xx

But if you have no contact with a co-ordinator or Development Officer how are you meant to hear this?

If it is true that we should see a birth certificate then this seems like a rule which should be mandatory for all childcare settings, not just those who get to hear about it.

Any rules like this should be communicated from their source to everybody who needs to know. It should not just be assumed that the information will eventually filter through. It is the same scenario as registering with the ICO, some childminders have been advised of this and some haven't; but there is a possibility that those who haven't registered will be given an action on it at their next inspection, but others won't as there is no consistency to the inspections.

miffy
17-03-2011, 09:03 PM
hi everyone

Just spoken to a really nice Inspector at Ofsted and she is outraged at this mis-information. She said that under no circumstances should we ask to see birth certificates and that if both parents are named on the contract we do not need to supply any more information to Ofsted about parental responsibility, she said that is proof enough.

She advised me to wait for my report to arrive and if the action is still listed to complain against it, she said that she will help me all the way.

Hope I didn't stress anyone out too much. xx

It doesn't seem right that you have to wait for your report to come through and then complain - you have a valid complaint now and Ofsted should be looking into it.

It's not right that this has cost you a grade. Hope you can get it sorted out quickly.

Miffy xx

charlie potato
18-03-2011, 04:37 AM
I never got asked for my childrens birth certificates when they were in a nursery and with a childminder.
I never got told this was a requirement either. Its ridiculous. They're paying us to care for their children. We are not a school. :rolleyes: