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View Full Version : Advice re Badly behaved child (warning LONG post)!!



kateshady
16-03-2011, 11:15 AM
Hi

I am just looking for some advice about what to do with a very distruptive 6 year old.

I am still relatively new to childminding, reg since Aug last year but I am really struggling with this child & find myself getting stressed & upset & really doubting myself.

He has been with me for about 3 months now & came from another childminder where he was obviously having problems but his parents didnt tell me much about this, just that the previous childminder was very busy with 3 under 2's. The child has told me that he couldnt go there as he was too naughty! :(

He's extremely hyper, will just have outburst where he will scream in someones face, will NOT listen, can be far too rough - kicking balls hard at other children, pulling their coats round their necks, throwing object etc.
Has to be repeatidly told to stop or removed manually from the situation. He runs off & I have to shout 'STOP!' which I'm sure just makes me look terrible!
He will quite happily sit on time out for 6 minutes but this isnt improving or helping the behaviour.
He's recently kicked another mindee in the face as he was getting too excited kicking a balloon & wouldnt calm down & he also kicked my small dog very hard in the face & also nearly strangled a child by pulling his coat & not letting go.
I cannot take my eyes off him which is hard as I have a 2 year old as well.

I ask him why but he doesnt know.

He is on an individual learning plan at school & a reward chart but I know he is very distruptive in class. His parents have referred him to a Dr & parents have mentioned ADHD but he just keeps saying he will see them in another 3 months to see if there is any change.
I find he is getting worst, especially his behaviour towards others.

My dilema is that I am unsure as to whether I should give notice or keep on trying with him. I do feel sorry for him, at first I thought it may have been bad parenting but now I'm not so sure.
His parents have said there has been an improvement but I dont think there is. Certain things have improved, others have got worse.

The other mindee's are getting upset about him & I obviously need to think about them plus my own 2 children.
I have him before & after school everyday. He wont do any activities I set out & doesnt really play with the others.
I find I have to be very strict with him & I'm always speaking in my loud firm voice which I dont like & cant be nice for the other children!

His parents dont seem to be very assertive with him, especially his Dad who he seems to spend most time with. And I dont think they realise how difficult he is.

He has laid in my hallway screaming refusing to put his shoes on to go home & his Dad will just stand there & watch me struggle with him.
I now have to put his shoes & coat on before his Dad comes to try & stop this ordeal!

Please help!! Its added years onto me!!

Thanks

Happy Bunny
16-03-2011, 11:22 AM
Have a sit down with the parents and discuss how they deal with behaviour issues at home.
If this child does have ADHD then he needs routine and ways of dealing with the behaviour issues has to be the same at home and with you.

I have a son with ADHD and his behaviour at times would try the patience of a saint.

kateshady
16-03-2011, 11:28 AM
Thanks for the quick reply.

I agree with routine etc if he does have ADHD but I find his parents dont have any routines or strategies that they use with him.
His Dad says he counts to 3 but that generally doesnt work!

I feel like I'm suppose to come up with great ideas to help manage his behaviour but its extremely difficult. His parents dont give me any support just say there not happy with him & will be having 'words' in the car.

moogster1a
16-03-2011, 11:28 AM
I had very similar with a lo. the parents were very wishy washy wtih him and always made excuses for his awful behaviour. He would bite, kick, push and scream. Parents would just say, ahh, were you tired? when I told them.
I gave notice as he couldn't be left alone for a moment and it was exhausting me. I made up an excuse why I couldn't have him and was so glad when he went. The other children are so much happier and so am i.
At the end of the day, their prblems don't have to be yours and you're under no obligation to keep a potentially dangerous child.
I would reccommend the made up excuse though in case the parents accuse you of not being inclusive to future Dexters or some such rubbish.

Mouse
16-03-2011, 11:32 AM
I think in situations like this you need to decide whether or not you want to continue trying to work with the child and his family, or whether you would prefer to call it a day and give notice. You have to consider yourself, your family, the other children in your care and your property. It's not about 'giving up' on a child, it's about accepting that your setting isn't the most appropriate place for them and giving them the opportunity to find somewhere else where they can get the support they need. Perhaps this child would be better in a setting where there aren't any younger children, or where there are male carers (not meant as a critisism of all us wonderful women, but some boys do respond better to male role models). They also need someone who can raise their voice if need be and be firm with them. Like you say, that's often difficult to do when there are little children around who aren't used to hearing you do it.

Is there an afterschool club he could go to instead? They would have more space for him to run off some energy and more staff to help support him.

Happy Bunny
16-03-2011, 11:37 AM
I also looked after a child with behavioural issues as well. I asked parents permission to speak to the school to talk about how they tried to resolve any issues, so I could follow their behaviour system so that the child got the same system at school, my home and their home.

If parents will not work with you then it will be like trying to flog a dead horse.
I would sit down and to be honest put your cards on the table and say that said behaviour was having a negative effect on others in your home, that you really need to try to address this.

Aimi-jo
16-03-2011, 12:18 PM
I think in situations like this you need to decide whether or not you want to continue trying to work with the child and his family, or whether you would prefer to call it a day and give notice. You have to consider yourself, your family, the other children in your care and your property. It's not about 'giving up' on a child, it's about accepting that your setting isn't the most appropriate place for them and giving them the opportunity to find somewhere else where they can get the support they need. Perhaps this child would be better in a setting where there aren't any younger children, or where there are male carers (not meant as a critisism of all us wonderful women, but some boys do respond better to male role models). They also need someone who can raise their voice if need be and be firm with them. Like you say, that's often difficult to do when there are little children around who aren't used to hearing you do it.

Is there an afterschool club he could go to instead? They would have more space for him to run off some energy and more staff to help support him.

This is such good advice, as is the other responses. My son has behavioural problems not as bad as you have listed but recieves a lot of help at school, I do believe its the male teaching assistant that get through to him the most. I hope whatever you decide things get a bit better x x x

kateshady
16-03-2011, 06:13 PM
Thank you all for your replies. Your advice is all excellent & has been taken on board!

We had another incident tonight where he was playing on the climbing frame & kicked another child in her face on the nose.
Obviously I am not pleased about this & neither is the little girl or her Mum.

I've spoke to his Dad tonight & said I feel as though his behaviour is getting worse with me & he doesnt listen to me.
He said he wasnt aware!!

I advised him to look into the after school club, as someone said above there is alot more space & more staff. I do think this will benefit him more.

His Dad said he would have a talk & left it at that.

Hebs
16-03-2011, 06:17 PM
my son has ADHD and is nor has ever been like this child :eek:

i think theres more to it than ADHD tbh x

Newbie1!
16-03-2011, 07:00 PM
You have basically described a mindee that I gave notice on yesterday! He is not the slightest bit concerned about time out etc - he knows if he does something wrong he will go on time out but it certainly doesnt prevent him doing it - this, I have come to realise, is because his parents pretty much let him rule the house. The nights we have stood in my hall when its home time and he has picked his shoes up and thrown them hard in dads face etc and the response is "come on X, get your shoosies on so we can get home for some TV time or ice cream" or whatever happens to be the offer that night!!

Either they are completely oblivious to his behaviour (which I know they arent!) or they just refuse to deal with it. I do think that my mindee may have some sort of behavioural problems but really dont want to pile on the bandwagon of saying it could be ADHD as I do think there are lots of children/parents/carers/authorities who put general bad behaviour down to ADHD. Basically, my summary would be this -in my situation I did not feel I had the necessary skills and expertise to adequately care for this child and keep the other, smaller children safe and prevent influence from his bad behaviour. I had to give notice yesterday as it was making my life a total misery - I was dreading his minding days, which is not why I got into this job!!

Sorry have gone on a bit ^^^ !!! but I just wanted you to know your not alone and I think in your heart of hearts you probably know what is the best for you and your setting. xxxx

Ripeberry
16-03-2011, 07:19 PM
Do you have a policy that says if an older child is putting others in danger then notice will be given? You have a duty of care to the other children and the younger ones would come first.
Otherwise you may find the other parents will pull out their children and you will be left with this 6yr old as no-one else will want their child to come. :(

Sounds like he needs to be in an after school club where kids are of a similar age and they may be more staff to keep an eye on him.

Ripeberry
16-03-2011, 07:31 PM
I had very similar with a lo. the parents were very wishy washy wtih him and always made excuses for his awful behaviour. He would bite, kick, push and scream. Parents would just say, ahh, were you tired? when I told them.
I gave notice as he couldn't be left alone for a moment and it was exhausting me. I made up an excuse why I couldn't have him and was so glad when he went. The other children are so much happier and so am i.
At the end of the day, their prblems don't have to be yours and you're under no obligation to keep a potentially dangerous child.
I would reccommend the made up excuse though in case the parents accuse you of not being inclusive to future Dexters or some such rubbish.

Being inclusive should not have to mean taking on 'dangerous behaviour'. Safeguarding children is the priority and the priority are the youngest mindees, your own familly and your home.
Keep documenting all that has happened in your 'record of concerns' so if there is any comeback you can show what the child was doing and what you tried to do to curb his behaviour.
Not all children can be childminded, some have to be in non-home environments.

Mykidsrock
17-03-2011, 07:44 AM
I just wanted to let you know you're not alone. I posted along the same lines some time back due to a mindee I had (and still have) who had major behavioural issues. These were not being addressed despite mum's best efforts as she just met a brick wall. It took me writing to the school and her demanding on a daily basis that she speaks to her LO's teacher that he is now on an IEP. Mum has also got a boyfriend who LO really listens to.

However, even though things with LO have improved and he is much nicer to have and kinder to the others - I would not hesitate giving notice if his behaviour was to decline again to the stage where he was hurting others or making the others be in a dangerous situation. I have discussed this with mum so she is fully aware that I would and can do this.

As others have said your duty of care has to be to those younger than him and he is a danger to others. I think I would also be some what peeved if he hurt my child. I think personally that you need to give notice - you have tried and you should be proud of yourself for that but before he tarnishes the name of your business, give notice.

You're not on your own.

Jess xx

Mookins
17-03-2011, 10:55 AM
my son has ADHD and is nor has ever been like this child :eek:

i think theres more to it than ADHD tbh x

my stepson has aspergers syndrome....this sounds very similar to this, he was tested for ADHD...but they said no, mainly because of his temper and physical violent outbursts!!

xx

keatingschick
19-03-2011, 03:45 PM
Wish I had read this thread sooner lol.

I look after a nearly 3 year old, and have had real problems with his behaviour, I sort of wonder if I have handled it as well as I could do but I've been at my wits end.

Like you describe I've been in tears over his behaviour, my development worker has come around to assess me and has sat there and watched while he has thrown toys at me because he is not getting his own way. His mum will openly say its HIS WAY OR NO WAY. I have DREADED the idea of Ofsted coming while he is here because that is when he is most difficult.

One of the problems I would have with him initially was if he couldnt have my undivided attention then he would play up, one of the main things he would do - and I'll be honest it REALLY drove me mad, I cant stand anyone touching my feet - if the phone rang, or if say another parent came to collect and was talking to me, he would lie on the floor and mess with my feet, he would push toys onto my feet and drive things over my feet or grab them or nip them or just generally mess with them while I was trying to have a conversation.
He would/will throw toys, he is very boistrous and sort of like a bull in a china shop. Whenever we visited groups, library etc, he would never join in and would just want to get up and run around or mess with things. We would go to a rhyme time and the librarian would have all the children sat around joining in stories and singing, doing action rhymes etc. but he would never sit down, he would either be lying on the floor kicking OR stood up sort of oblivious and he ended up sitting on a babies head because he just wouldnt sit down. If the librarian spoke to him, he would NEVER interact with her and would often walk over and hit me or throw something at me, (something I have also noticed if mum comes and I say "show mummy how we....", she will ask to see and he will sort of hit her or push her)
To be perfectly honest I do think that it is because of parenting, mum and dad were struggling with him and mum told me of a row where dad said that it was her fault he is like he is, because if the child says jump, she basically says HOW HIGH? She attends to his absolute every whim, the second he says anything, and she never challenges things.
When she collects him, when he hears the front door, he runs to the door trying to open it, and the second it is open he is off in the front garden, picking chippings up in my garden throwing them through the fence at my car, OR he has run off with her car keys and thrown them into a neighbours garden IN THE DARK, he will NEVER put on his coat when she comes to collect him, basically he wont even stop when she tells him, its just like she cant control him and obviously that has a knock on effect. He doesnt like me telling him that he cant do something, IF I take him to the park I generally put him on reins, but on the rare occasion I let him off, he will just run and run and run, and no matter how many times I shout STOP he will not. and I've had to just leave the pram with my CM friend and run after him. I have had this with other children obviously but we play STOP AND GO GAME, so you say stop and they stop and they can only go when you say go (catch up with the pram) but he totally refuses to co-operate with this.
In a recent discussion with mum she said that she feels he is "just a boy" and that he would never do anything malicious, well tbh I didnt want to get into a charactor assassination but I feel that at times he IS malicious. At my home with the younger 2, and at groups, its like he watches other children and he sees what they are aiming for and is like lightening across the room and barges them out of the way to get it. The little girl I mind cant play with ANYTHING, because anything and everything she touches he will go for, and if I go to take it off him explaining that she was playing with it, he throws things at me, if I sit him on the sofa to "cool off" he will try and reach anything and everything to throw at me, any toys on the chair, books, cushions, once he quickly reached to push the heavy wooden dolls house off the top of the cupboard towards the baby on the floor. But its how he sort of SEES what they want and will sort of barge them out of the way. He will stand in front of the little girl sort of blocking her way, not touching her but not letting her out of the space she is in, and so she gets upset and cross. He is like this at toddler groups, here, basically anywhere I take him.
I've sort of tried to speak to mum, but we were told that you needed to tread carefully, because mum doesnt want to at the end of the day hear all the negatives, but I was really struggling and spoke to my DW who said I was not fulfulling my job I NEEDED to give notice for my own sanity and for the sake of my family and also the other children I mind. But I couldnt really afford to give notice and so I tried to carry on and tried everything to address his behaviour. I have tried stickers but what that causes is tantrums because he wants stickers, he doesnt sort of "earn" the stickers, he will throw a tantrum cos he wants one and wants it now, and I will say "yes if you hold the pram when we are at the park and dont run away then you will get stickers" but that doesnt work, he wants one NOW!!!
But what I felt was I must let mum know re behaviour issues so that if I decided to give notice then it wasnt out of the blue, she was already aware. But all I get back from her is that he is good as gold at home, so its like its just with ME that he is like that.
Anyway, I've actually just given notice for another matter, but really its a build up of things. I didnt really want to mention his behaviour, but it came out as the topic became a little heated. But like a few mention I did bring up the issue of the safety of other children, to which his mum replied that she thought he was just a boy and that his actions weren't malicious. I explained that THAT was not the issue and that if she brought her baby to me, and had to pick him up because an older child had barged the baby out of the way to get to the toy that her child was playing with and he had bumped his head that she wouldnt be impressed either.
I know someone mentions policies re danger to younger children but I am sure thats actually in the contract on the NCMA that if you feel their actions are a danger to younger children, you can actually finish them without notice.

onceinabluemoon
19-03-2011, 04:27 PM
He has laid in my hallway screaming refusing to put his shoes on to go home & his Dad will just stand there & watch me struggle with him.


Thanks

In these circumstances I'd call his bluff, pick up his shoes hand them to dad and say goodbye then, and shut the door.

Leapsters
29-03-2011, 09:48 AM
Hey there,
I really feel for you, and to be honest there is lots of help available, just need to find out the who's and where.
Get in touch with your childminding network and see if they can help. There is courses you would be able to actually attend to deal with challenging behaviour.
If that fails speak to the Family Information Service they should also be able to point you in the right direction.
Furthermore there is a website that you can access with lots of positive help. www.nationalstrategies.co.uk You should be able to order a booklet on there or may access it online called: Inclusion for behavioural issues etc.

I do know that we as childminders are under no obligation to keep a child which may have these sort of problems, but surely we have to at least try and help and explore various avenues, before we come to a decision where the child may have to leave the setting. They are only little people after all.

I hope everything goes ok for you hun :)

youarewhatyoueat
29-03-2011, 10:37 AM
There is help out there but unfortunately you need to be pro active to find it. Contact your children centre and ask for a family support worker for ideas, also they can work in partnership with you and the parents. Also talk to your local special school for help, they often run courses aimed at parents but you would be welcome.
Talk to the school for strategies that they could set up and you to continue.
I had a child I had to give notice to as the time wasn't right for me or my family to be able to get the support i needed. But i've been on courses and volunteered in special schools its amazing what can be done but its very time consuming and very difficult to do alone while caring for others.
The school will or can get advice from the teaching advisory service perhaps you could ask what has been suggested, have a dig about for info on the council websites and phone around if the parents are supportive don't be afraid to ask for help.

alwaysright
29-03-2011, 12:55 PM
i once looked after achild like this, also a boy, from when he was around six until i could bear his behaviour no more and had to give notice after two and a hlaf years!! he didnt have adhd he just ruled the roost at home and wanted to in my house which i wouldnt allow, he took up so much of my time while he was he i felf like i was ignoring the other children to concentrate on him and he behaved so badly to them that they didnt want to play with him! he stuck a teatowel down my toilet, a loo roll, took things from my house, i could go on and on....now i just think why did i put up with that for soooo long, i certainly wouldnt do it again!!!!:rolleyes:

Blackcat
29-03-2011, 07:56 PM
all the above is fab advice but it is down to you, if you want to carry on with this child or if he is just too disruptive to your setting