Do you charge them if they are not there?

[CTL03]

Ok, so yet again my friend has been driving me round the bend!!
I look after her 2 girls (one who goes to school full time (5yr old) and the other girl who attends nursery 2 and a half hrs a day (3yrs).

I've had words with the mum as she's trying to get me to refund used money ect.

Anyway, when it's half term the fees for the week go up, as obviously the school is closed. (The girls are here 8:30am-5:30pm.
She's saying that because the girls are not here this week then she shouldn't have to pay the full amount, but only the contracted hours (despite the fact that the fees policy states if they are on holiday, they pay full fees)! :angry:

Am I right or is she?

I have another mum that paid over Xmas when the school was closed despite them being on holiday and I don't understand if there is any difference!

Please help!

[muffins]

If its writen in the contract then yes she has to pay!

[blue bear]

If she is saying only wants to pay for contracted hours what does your contract say? If it says all day in holidays on the contract then she pays for all day. If it only states after school hours and not holiday times then she is only contracted to pay after school times iyswim

[nic t]

I agree, it depends on the contracted hours on the contract.

For example say I had a child normally 3.30-5.30pm after school and this was all that was in the contract even though I normally have them for full days in the holidays then if they were absent that's all that you can charge, just the 2 hours. If however, you have it split it in the contract, i.e, term-time 3.30-5.30pm, school holidays 8.30-5.30pm, then you are fully entitled to charge for the full day if they do not attend.

Hope this helps.

[CTL03]

Thanks,in the contract it only states that the hours are 8:30am-5:30pm for both of them.

I can see where she is coming from as she sees it as it's easier for me as the girls aren't here, they are not eating any food etc. but it's just frustrating that she is trying to talk her way out of it! :mad:

[mufftie]

I'm a bit confused , if her intention at the start was to bring them during school hols then yes charge her but if at the start she said that they would only ever attend during term times for example if she only works term times then no you shouldn't charge , or not the full fee maybe a small retainer at the most

[nic t]

Sorry hun, I'm abit confused too, but want to help you out!!!

If she is saying she only wants to pay the contracted hours then isn't that 8.30-5.30 for both of them, as per your last post?

[Pipsqueak]

Bit confused here too.

the way I read it is:

your contract states full fees for holiday absences. Now to me that means if a child is away from your setting on holidays during contracted hours - full fees apply.

Are you contracted to have them in the school holiday periods and for what hours. if you are and its in the contract then yes they get charged as they are absent.

think you need to bluntly explain to PIA parent that - ALL contract hours are paid for.

If she is driving you nuts enough - then perhaps you ought to reconsider working 'with/for' a friend.

[CTL03]

Hi,
Sorry I've not made it clear. I'm fairly new and confused myself. :blush:
I've had the girls the last half term (October time) so she obviously paid the "full" amount, as she used me.

I've told her she owes me for the Xmas holiday and this week (despiet the fact that the girls aren't here, which is why she is kicking off).

Like I said, 1 girl is normally at school and the other is an nursery for a short time.

The mum thinks that because they are not there, she should only needto pay the "normal" amount for the week. But as I said to her, the school holidays are charged at "full rate" as the school is closed despite the fact that she's taken this week as a holiday.

The days in the contract are not wrote down as she changes them to suit when she's working, but I have put in the notes that it is two days a week between 8:30am-5:30pm. She also gets a 10% discount plus I don't charge her when the girls are not here (nursery and school).

I just feel like she is trying to get round it and now she has "gone off to think" as she reckons other childminders would charge her the normal school fees if she took a holiday when the school was closed.

Hope that makes more sense!!

[Polly2]

I think she should pay! Look at it this way - you may have turned down a holiday contract to be available for this family during school hols. the fact they have chosen not to use you is her problem :rolleyes:

I would ask for fees to be paid up then maybe offer a term time only contract and see what she says :thumbsup:

[Deb]

for this reason I have two contracts for school aged children: term-time and holiday-time contracts.

I hope you get some clarity soon.

[appleblossom]

I would look at it this way; she expects you to hold both places for full time use during school holidays. she wants 2 full time places, not just wraparound the school day hours.

So you cannot offer the core daytime hours (9am to 3pm) to any other parents during the holidays. Therefore, she is reserving full time hours for 2 children. If the contract says she must pay full time contracted fees whether she uses the hours or not in the holidays then that is what she must pay.

I offer 4 weeks holiday at half pay per year. I have a 4 year old (who does 15 hours at school nursery in term time) off this week and parents are using one of their 4 half pay weeks. So his fees are half this week.

If he was off in term time they would pay half the before/after school hours Once the four weeks are used any time off is at full pay.

However I have two sisters who are here just before and after school. Mum is a teacher and as she doesn't have any contracted hours I don't charge anything for absence in the holidays, as she does not expect me to keep the places for them in the holidays. In practice they do come on the odd day in the school holidays; but Mum understands that I cannot guarantee the places will be there for her to use.

[The Juggler]

i think I would say to her look if you don't need holiday cover from now on that is fine and offer her one of the following (whichever suits YOU best).

a. term-time only contract where she pays nothing for the holidays BUT make it clear this means you will NOT have a space if she then needs it as you will fill it with holiday children.


b. term time only contract with a 50% retainer for school holidays. Then she tops up to full fee for the days she actually uses and has the option to use the days.

As she signed the contract to include full day care in the hols (as I have understood) tell her she owes you full for xmas and this week though but tell her its important we get it right from now on:thumbsup:

[Pipsqueak]

i think I would say to her look if you don't need holiday cover from now on that is fine and offer her one of the following (whichever suits YOU best).

a. term-time only contract where she pays nothing for the holidays BUT make it clear this means you will NOT have a space if she then needs it as you will fill it with holiday children.


b. term time only contract with a 50% retainer for school holidays. Then she tops up to full fee for the days she actually uses and has the option to use the days.

As she signed the contract to include full day care in the hols (as I have understood) tell her she owes you full for xmas and this week though but tell her its important we get it right from now on:thumbsup:

Ditto to what ^^^^ she said^^^^^.

One other alternative if she goes for option a and runs the risk of just contacting your when she needs care - ad-hoc iny the holidays - they you charge a significantly enhanced rate and you require a minimum of 48hrs notice (spaces are not guaranteed even with 48hrs notice - so you have the option to say no if it doesn't suit you) and anything less that 48hrs notice would be considered emergency care and your rate is even more enhanced.
Oh, and you require all booked hours to be paid for at the START of session.

[wendywu]

I think i would say to her, does she want you as her CM or NOT.

If the answer is yes then she sticks to the contracted rules as every other parent does.

Its about time you laid it on the line for her, and she calls herself your friend :panic:

[The Juggler]

Ditto to what ^^^^ she said^^^^^.

One other alternative if she goes for option a and runs the risk of just contacting your when she needs care - ad-hoc iny the holidays - they you charge a significantly enhanced rate and you require a minimum of 48hrs notice (spaces are not guaranteed even with 48hrs notice - so you have the option to say no if it doesn't suit you) and anything less that 48hrs notice would be considered emergency care and your rate is even more enhanced.
Oh, and you require all booked hours to be paid for at the START of session.

:laughing: :thumbsup: def. an enhanced rate and have a booking form for each holiday she wants that you complete and she SIGNS to agree to pay for the booked spaces whether she changes her mind or not.

[singingcactus]

I would say, since you have set the precedence of not charging her when the children are not at yours during term time, then you should not be charging her a full day when they are not there during holiday time. It is unfair of you to keep changing the rules and expecting the parent to agree to each change. That is aside from what you may or may not have in your contract.

I think you might need to just let this one go and have a review of your contract and make it more specific. If you are going to require full day payment for holidays regardless of attendance then you should also require the parent to pay for term time regardless of attendance. If you keep changing the rules on her she cannot possibly begin to understand the varying contract you have in place.

For the record, I do not charge my schoolies full days for school holidays unless they actually attend or specifically book that day.

[manjay]

I charge my schoolies for full days during the holidays if that is what they say they want at the outset! I don't charge whilst they are at school.

My contract states the hours they need before and after school and the hours they need in the holidays. They can book school holidays off if they want but I would still charge 50% of full day fee.

Do you charge this family in advance? I think you will struggle with this now as I think you are saying you still haven't been paid for Christmas holidays. All my families pay monthly in advance so they would have paid for this half term at the end of Jan.

I think you definitely need a meeting to clear this up. I think you are being generous as it is as you are giving a discount and not charging whilst the youngest is at Nursery.

Good luck in getting sorted and be strong:thumbsup:

[Chatterbox Childcare]

You have to go by what is in the contract. You state in your first post that your "fees" policy states full pay but what does the contract say?

[Kezzle]

I would say, since you have set the precedence of not charging her when the children are not at yours during term time, then you should not be charging her a full day when they are not there during holiday time. It is unfair of you to keep changing the rules and expecting the parent to agree to each change. That is aside from what you may or may not have in your contract.

I think you might need to just let this one go and have a review of your contract and make it more specific. If you are going to require full day payment for holidays regardless of attendance then you should also require the parent to pay for term time regardless of attendance. If you keep changing the rules on her she cannot possibly begin to understand the varying contract you have in place.


This is the way i saw it too and i agree with your statement.

[~Chelle~]

I would say, since you have set the precedence of not charging her when the children are not at yours during term time, then you should not be charging her a full day when they are not there during holiday time. It is unfair of you to keep changing the rules and expecting the parent to agree to each change. That is aside from what you may or may not have in your contract.

I think you might need to just let this one go and have a review of your contract and make it more specific. If you are going to require full day payment for holidays regardless of attendance then you should also require the parent to pay for term time regardless of attendance. If you keep changing the rules on her she cannot possibly begin to understand the varying contract you have in place.

For the record, I do not charge my schoolies full days for school holidays unless they actually attend or specifically book that day.


I agree, you are giving mixed signals by to the parent which is probably why she is confused.

Originally Posted by The Juggler
i think I would say to her look if you don't need holiday cover from now on that is fine and offer her one of the following (whichever suits YOU best).

a. term-time only contract where she pays nothing for the holidays BUT make it clear this means you will NOT have a space if she then needs it as you will fill it with holiday children.


b. term time only contract with a 50% retainer for school holidays. Then she tops up to full fee for the days she actually uses and has the option to use the days.

As she signed the contract to include full day care in the hols (as I have understood) tell her she owes you full for xmas and this week though but tell her its important we get it right from now on.

:thumbsup: This is what you need to do, sit down with mum and talk it through then this way you will both know where you stand.

[naomipinner1983]

If you have it in your contract that fees are paid in full even if they are not with you, they should pay full fee. In my contracts, I have said that if they take holidays its only half fee but they have to give notice and if they take last minute holidays its full fee, which was explained to them. Hope you got it all sorted.x