Outside napping

[Trpta108]

In another thread we ended up chatting about childcare the scandinavian way. In Denmark where I come from, and other parts of Scandinavia I believe, children nap outside in big prams wearing a harness.They are ofcourse wrapped up according to the weather. Just wondering what others think of this. I am considering doing this myself as I am struggling to think of a suitable place in the house (as my husband has decided he wants to be able to smoke in the room I had planned to use as quiet room:eek: ). I live in a village with a secure garden with cover in case of pouring rain.

[mama2three]

If mine fall asleep in the double I need to leave them outsise the side door as it wont fit in without folding! All parents have been very happy with this -chilldren are secure , warm and watched. I think they really benefit from the fresh air , but I can imagine there are very many parents who would not be happy with the arrangement - especially if it was where they always slept rather than occasionally.

[sunflower]

I would ask the parents and see their reaction to their child sleeping wrapped up outside.

If they were happy, I would get it in writing that they agree to this.

If not happy, then your hubby's going to have to smoke outside :laughing:

[clio0602]

Hmmm I don't think I'd be happy with my lo sleeping outside but that may just be me. Also, I may be wrong, but I thought you weren't able to smoke in the house at all where children were minded? Again I wouldn't be happy with that and yes I am extremely overprotective so feel free to ignore me :o

[berkschick]

I thought that we had to be a non smoking premises? I could be wrong though but we were all given no smoking signs by our council last year to out up! Not that I have as none of us smoke anyway.

[butterfly]

I have put children outside to sleep occassionally when it's warm and parents were happy but i wouldn't do it at this time of year. I think if that's the way you want to run your setting both parents and ofsted will want to see information based on the fact that this practice is good for the children - a bit like you would expect to get from a 'different' type of school. You must be prepared to stick to your guns though as not all parents will like it! It depends what you want your setting to be like.

On the smoking front - will the children use this room at all - if so your other half will not be able to smoke in there. I would suggest to try to gently persuade him to smoke outside as ofsted really don't like it. many parents too (including myself) would be concerned about putting their child in to a setting where they may be in contact with smoke. even if he doesn't smoke in front of them there will still be the lingering smell in the fabric of the house.

[gegele]

my mindee falls asleep nearly every morning in double buggy on school run, he is happy as anything and warm as toast as really well wrapped up. he actually love sleeping in buggy as feels all snugged like when breastfed

BUT i wouldn't use this as the only place to sleep. what if you have more than 1child asleep? if you have a tandem front seat doean't really lay flat?

where do the others have quiet time?

as a mum i refused my children to sleep in buggy unless they fell asleep while on outing, school run....

good luck

[gigglinggoblin]

I would be put off if that is all you offer. It was fairly standard over here not that long ago, my mum often put us outside but not sure if it was at -5 like it has been recently! If mine fall asleep I sometimes leavethem out but it depends on the weather, I wouldnt leave them out if it was freezing or very windy. Cant you register a bedroom so they can sleep there?

I would be equally put off by the smoking, I am assuming you are also a smoker if you think the smell wont go through the entire house? It will, so you will probably be limiting yourself to smoking parents.

[little chickee]

I think its fine to let children sleep outside - i have done it with my own. When my 2nd son was born we were living in a caravan as we were self building our house.

One day my HV came for an unannouced visit and when she asked to see the baby i said " i'll just go and get him - he is in the shed!". This was the middle of a very cold winter and i used to wrap him up well and pop him in his buggy in the shed with the moniters on. Gave me the chance to spend time with my oldest boy without contantly telling him to be quiet.

After she regained her composure she was fine with it.

As for the smoking your premises does need to be 100% smoke free. Doesnt matter if they will not go in the room - he must smoke outside - this includes even in the evenings and weekends when you are not minding.

[little chickee]

However i also agree that i think you should offer an inside sleeping option too. I would probably not put kids to sleep outside if the temp was below freezing.

[Penny1959]

I would put mindees outside to sleep but not if temp drops below 0. Would have to be proper prams with plenty of space to move (such as mine had 30 years ago!) and as you say strapped in with a harness. Would also have to be where I could see and hear (so on patio under kitchen window).

As my parents already agree to where their child sleeps (in my downstairs environment) then I would ask them to say if ok to sleep their child outside.

I would be interested to know if you plan to adopt scandinavian ideas about outside play - because if so and the children and yourself going to be playing outside most of the time, then I would assume that parents using your childminding service would a) be keen on this type of environment b) be reassured that their baby was being supervised and that you would not leave the baby outside if you decided too cold for yourself or other children to be outside.

As they saying goes ' no such thing as inappropriate (bad) weather just inappropriate (bad) clothing' - so I say if you have right clothing / equipment go for it.

Penny :)

[Winnie]

When I had my first child the advice was to sleep them outside – unless it was foggy :) My childrens old nursery had an outside covered veranda with the express purpose of providing shelter for sleeping babies….then fashions changed/new ideas came along and babies stopped being put outside and instead are roasted in baby sleep rooms in nurseries (kept very warm and dark to enable babies to sleep longer) :( I’m all for sleeping babies outside, I have a outer hallway where babies can sleep or if parents want their child to sleep in a cot then I use the sittingroom which is heated to 16C, I do have sleep mats too but they are only for use in the playroom. I think it is important to give parents choice :)

[Ripeberry]

Wrap up your partner warmly and stick HIM outside to smoke!:D

[Trpta108]

Just spoke to Ofsted who said as long as permission forms and RA is in place then no problem. I will register upstairs bedroom, just dont like the idea, prefer to keep lo on ground floor level. And yes i would love for my setting to be as outdoor based as possible and hoping to attract parents with same values.
Ideally hubby would stop smoking (I have not touched a cigarette in 13 years myself) or smoke outside, but he refuses to do so. I have even suggested he smokes in bathroom, close door and open windows, as smell doesnt stay long in there, but he refuses that as well:mad: . Mindees would not be using the room he smokes in, as was the plan before his decision. He has agreed to hang thick curtain around door so minimum smoke escapes into hallway and only smoke when no mindes in the house (he is at work all day). I am still not happy with this, as I agree that it would put me off as a parent knowing that someone smokes in the house.
It is actually really frustrating that he wont support me in this. Compromise I say.

[sonia ann]

I would put mindees outside to sleep but not if temp drops below 0. Would have to be proper prams with plenty of space to move (such as mine had 30 years ago!) and as you say strapped in with a harness. Would also have to be where I could see and hear (so on patio under kitchen window).

I used to do it this way for years when I had a proper pram but not since I have only a buggy. The children were always cosy and slept really well.In fact when I trained the children slept outside in big prams on the verandah.......it was actively encouraged:)

[singingcactus]

At our previous house we built an outdoor covered area, with a locking gate. This was in a garden with 2 further locking gates lol. I always put the mindees outside to sleep. They were wrapped up well and very very happy. They slept in front of the patio windows so I watched them the whole time, and it meant I could play easily with the other children whilst the tired ones slept. I did it winter or summer, and even when it was drizzling (had a covered area as I said). I wouldn't of course - and I doubt you (op) would either - ever have left an infant outside in the recent very very low temps we have had this last fortnight, but in general yes I like the idea of children sleeping outdoors in a natural environment, in warmth or chill, with birdsong as the lullaby.

[sonia ann]

I like the idea of children sleeping outdoors in a natural environment, in warmth or chill, with birdsong as the lullaby.
what a lovely picture :)

[Polly2]

What an interesting thread!

I have recently done a bit of research into scandinavian methods and there seems to be lots of good reasons to put babies outside to sleep. Greater resistance to colds, more settled naps, better connection with outdoor environment etc.

I just think that as a parent, unless you have researched it, our culture tells us its not right. I would love to adopt this method myself but would worry what parents thought.

Maybe you could put together an information pack about your outdoor methods for parents to become better informed.

I would be really interested in how you get on :thumbsup:

[Mouse]

We have a covered area and I will leave sleeping children there if we've arrived home & they're asleep in the buggy. I left one yesterday & he slept for almost 2 hours. I checked on him regulalry and he looked very contented. When I went to get him, he was lovely & warm! The shelter is quite enclosed, dry & keeps the wind out, but there's lots of fresh air.

I've also put children out there to sleep in the summer, but wouldn't put them out in the winter (unless, like I said, they'd fallen asleep on the way home)...probably because I leave the kitchen door open & it's too cold to do that all the time!

[~Chelle~]

Ideally hubby would stop smoking (I have not touched a cigarette in 13 years myself) or smoke outside, but he refuses to do so. I have even suggested he smokes in bathroom, close door and open windows, as smell doesnt stay long in there, but he refuses that as well:mad: . Mindees would not be using the room he smokes in, as was the plan before his decision. He has agreed to hang thick curtain around door so minimum smoke escapes into hallway and only smoke when no mindes in the house (he is at work all day). I am still not happy with this, as I agree that it would put me off as a parent knowing that someone smokes in the house.
It is actually really frustrating that he wont support me in this. Compromise I say.

I am afraid that your hubby would have to smoke outside, he is not allowed to smoke on the "premises" where children are present, whether he is in a separate room or not. I know it is his home too, but he really should smoke outside.

If you have disclosed to Ofsted about using the "smoking room" as a quiet room, then they would have factored this in when issuing you with your number ratios. This means that this room should be available for children to use.

Smoke travels and lingers so I really do not think that him using this room, or the bathroom to smoke in is in anyway ideal.

Your husband is the one who needs to compromise. He needs to realise that you will have other peoples children in your care, whom will be providing you with an income. Is it really THAT hard for him to smoke outside??

I know a number of smokers who go outside to smoke, it is a routine that they get in to.

As for sleeping outside, I would not do it, simply because there are a number of animals that I have seen in my garden, Cats, Foxes etc and would not trust leaving the children out there alone. x

[Trpta108]

What an interesting thread!

I have recently done a bit of research into scandinavian methods and there seems to be lots of good reasons to put babies outside to sleep. Greater resistance to colds, more settled naps, better connection with outdoor environment etc.

I just think that as a parent, unless you have researched it, our culture tells us its not right. I would love to adopt this method myself but would worry what parents thought.

Maybe you could put together an information pack about your outdoor methods for parents to become better informed.

I would be really interested in how you get on :thumbsup:

Was planning to write something about the benefits of the outdoors ect in my general info leaflet, but might use your suggestion and do a whole seperate one. Thanks! Will update when I actually start minding (cant wait:) ).

[Trpta108]

I am afraid that your hubby would have to smoke outside, he is not allowed to smoke on the "premises" where children are present, whether he is in a separate room or not. I know it is his home too, but he really should smoke outside.

If you have disclosed to Ofsted about using the "smoking room" as a quiet room, then they would have factored this in when issuing you with your number ratios. This means that this room should be available for children to use.

Smoke travels and lingers so I really do not think that him using this room, or the bathroom to smoke in is in anyway ideal.

Your husband is the one who needs to compromise. He needs to realise that you will have other peoples children in your care, whom will be providing you with an income. Is it really THAT hard for him to smoke outside??




I know a number of smokers who go outside to smoke, it is a routine that they get in to.

As for sleeping outside, I would not do it, simply because there are a number of animals that I have seen in my garden, Cats, Foxes etc and would not trust leaving the children out there alone. x


I did mean my husband to compromise.
Regards to animals outside, it is possible to buy cat nets for the pram.

[beccas]

i have childminded for 9 years almost now and children have always slept outside if they are in buggy after a outing i cover them even with rain cover if needed and theyare warm itis weather permitting i have a gazebo as well to use in wet weather.

I believe if the parent is ok with it then its fine with me. some Children sleep better outside than in due to noise from other children i also have a travel cot and use my settees as well it all depends on parents and childs prefrence.

As for smoking my hubby smmokes in my house at night and i have the window open and always have it ventilated in a morningbefore mindees come ofsted know this and are fine he doesnt smoke after 10pm as we are both in bed lol both start work early and he doesnt smoke in a morning cos he gets up has a cup of tea some toast and leaves just as first mindee is comming. at 7am.

[Trpta108]

i have childminded for 9 years almost now and children have always slept outside if they are in buggy after a outing i cover them even with rain cover if needed and theyare warm itis weather permitting i have a gazebo as well to use in wet weather.

I believe if the parent is ok with it then its fine with me. some Children sleep better outside than in due to noise from other children i also have a travel cot and use my settees as well it all depends on parents and childs prefrence.

As for smoking my hubby smmokes in my house at night and i have the window open and always have it ventilated in a morningbefore mindees come ofsted know this and are fine he doesnt smoke after 10pm as we are both in bed lol both start work early and he doesnt smoke in a morning cos he gets up has a cup of tea some toast and leaves just as first mindee is comming. at 7am.

Thats excactly what my hubby does (apart from the mindee part as I havent started minding yet)

[rickysmiths]

What an interesting thread!

I have recently done a bit of research into scandinavian methods and there seems to be lots of good reasons to put babies outside to sleep. Greater resistance to colds, more settled naps, better connection with outdoor environment etc.

I just think that as a parent, unless you have researched it, our culture tells us its not right. I would love to adopt this method myself but would worry what parents thought.

Maybe you could put together an information pack about your outdoor methods for parents to become better informed.

I would be really interested in how you get on :thumbsup:



Where in our Culture does it tell us its not right?

Until the Nineteen Ninties it was common practice to put the baby out in the back garden in the pram to sleep. It is only very recently that the practice seems to have stopped.

Are we too protective I wonder? Remember Central Heating is not that old. When I was a baby and growing up we had no heating in the bedrooms, lino floors and there was often ice on the inside of the bedrooom window in the morning and somehow I have lived to tell the tale. :laughing: :clapping:

I often put my mindees in the garden in a buggy or pram for their sleep. From April to August I had no choice, I was working in a 22' Porta Cabin in the front garden and although I had Ready beds for the older ones the babies slept outside, rain or shine. I don't think it does any harm. My generation survived and didn't need all the antibiotics that children seem to these days.

It certainly isn't healthy for them to spend all day and night in heated houses with no windows open, never steping outside for fear of getting cold. I sadly know a lot of families like this. I think we all have a tendancy to over heat our houses, I'm as guilty when it is cold outside

[caz3007]

RickySmiths, I agree with you. My older DS was born in 1992 and I had a large coachbuilt silver cross pram for him, complete with cat net and he slept outide lots. I think attitudes changed when it became fashionable to put tiny babies in a buggies and not proper prams or carrycots.

My DD was born a few years before him and we also had ice on the inside of our windows and no heating through most of her first winter, she is now 21 and it did her no harm.

Actually what did her more long term harm was the thought of the frilly dresses with matching knickers that she spent the first years of her life in :laughing: :laughing:

[hannahemilie]

If i were a baby Id love to sleep putside whatever the weather! as long as wrapped up i dont see the problem.

Cant believe your hubby is so stubborn, I wouldnt put up with smoking in the house from anyone, when you have your own or anyone elses children in your house I think its disgusting. Even if you cant smell it as youre used to it, any mindees will probably go home stinking of smoke. Im not anti smoking, Im an ex smoker but never smoked in the house.

[jane5]

I am afraid that your hubby would have to smoke outside, he is not allowed to smoke on the "premises" where children are present, whether he is in a separate room or not. I know it is his home too, but he really should smoke outside.

If you have disclosed to Ofsted about using the "smoking room" as a quiet room, then they would have factored this in when issuing you with your number ratios. This means that this room should be available for children to use.

Smoke travels and lingers so I really do not think that him using this room, or the bathroom to smoke in is in anyway ideal.

Your husband is the one who needs to compromise. He needs to realise that you will have other peoples children in your care, whom will be providing you with an income. Is it really THAT hard for him to smoke outside??

I know a number of smokers who go outside to smoke, it is a routine that they get in to.

As for sleeping outside, I would not do it, simply because there are a number of animals that I have seen in my garden, Cats, Foxes etc and would not trust leaving the children out there alone. x



I like to take my dd out in her pram in all weathers as I agree that babies sleep better out side but I agree with chelle, I dont trust the animals.

I had a male fox in my garden 3 days ago, he was massive and he stood and watched me and dd at the window and was not afraid of us at all. Its not long ago that those twins were attacked by a fox in their cot so there is no way I could put children in the garden even if I could see them from the window. A cat net would do nothing to stop a fox and we have squirrels and all sorts in our garden. We dont live in the country we live in Manchester.

[PixiePetal]

I nap children outside when the weather is warm, I think our winter weather is so damp and foggy that I don't like the idea and buggies are just not the same as the old fashioned prams we used to use.

If mindees fall asleep on a walk, I park in the front porch and leave the door ajar - in middle of countryside, but bring them in if it's too cold to want the door open :blush:

[Chimps Childminding]

My sons (18 and 19) slept outside when they were little unless it was foggy or really cold! If we are outside and a baby needs a sleep I will put them in the buggy and let them sleep in there! June and I live next door so we can put sleeping baby in the other garden (tho obviously still visible) away from the playing children, have to say on the whole most do sleep longer when outside than inside!

Wouldn't leave a baby outside now unless we were out there with them as we have loads of cats around us, and although you can get cat nets I am not sure I would trust them!!

As for smoking I was also under the impression that minding was supposed to be on a non-smoking premises, but not being smokers anyway I could be mistaken :blush:

[sarah707]

With regard to smoking, the Eyfs states -

Specific legal requirements
Providers must ensure that children are in a smoke-free environment.

Statutory guidance to which providers should have regard
Providers should have a no smoking policy which ensures that no one smokes in a room, or outside play area, when children are present or about to be present. If, exceptionally, children are expected to use any space that has been used for smoking, providers should ensure that there is adequate ventilation to clear the atmosphere.

I would suggest you contact Ofsted and make sure they are ok with someone smoking in your house.

Write a risk assessment of how you will protect children from second hand smoke on furnishings, coming through the door when it is opened etc.

Get their reply in writing if you can because if you are inspected and the inspector does not like smoking on the premises you may be graded inadequate.

hth :D

[~Grasshopper~]

As a mum i would never use a childminder who lived in a smoking household even if they smoked outside.

i would also never allow my child to be left to sleep outside without someone with him 100% of the time, i would not risk anything happening to him and i will not leave a child unattended whilst in my care either.

hmm good choice you will be giving the parents, inside with the smoker or outside in the frsh air with the foxes/ dogs/ cats/ baby snatchers.

[samb]

This is really interesting. At first when I read your OP I thought - no way would I want to leave children outside to sleep. I am glad I have read through everyone's responses. I feel that if we were playing outside on a warm day and a baby was due a nap then I would bring the baby out too - maybe in a travel cot or my single push chair which lies flat. But I would not feel comfortable leaving anyone outside if I was inside. I live in a flat anyway so not an option for me but interesting to provoke my own feelings on an issue. I would also not be happy to put my own children with a childminder that put children to sleep outside.

As for the smoking issue - I thought all childminding premises were non smoking, so if I walked into a house where someone smoked I would walk out again saying I was not happy about the smoke in the house. I have 2 out of 3 children that have smoking parents and they are pleased that they are sending their children to a non smoking home. I think even though they smoke they do realise it is not a nice environment for the children.

[PRINCESSDAISYFLOWER]

2 summers ago i was quite happy to leave the babies in their cot to sleep at nap time.

But one day after i did this, something terrible happened. 2 staffs managed to get into my VERY SECURE garden, they attacked me, my mum and killed my beloved cat.

Luckily the children were inside at the time eating their lunch but could you imagine what would have happened if i had the baby in the pram, at the time one of my mindees was the same size as my cat.

I personally couldnt settle unless i was sitting next to the child the whole time whcih defeats the purpose.

[Trpta108]

As a mum i would never use a childminder who lived in a smoking household even if they smoked outside.

i would also never allow my child to be left to sleep outside without someone with him 100% of the time, i would not risk anything happening to him and i will not leave a child unattended whilst in my care either.

hmm good choice you will be giving the parents, inside with the smoker or outside in the frsh air with the foxes/ dogs/ cats/ baby snatchers.

That hurt:( , am only trying to do my best. Are you suggesting I give up childminding then?

[rickysmiths]

As a mum i would never use a childminder who lived in a smoking household even if they smoked outside.

i would also never allow my child to be left to sleep outside without someone with him 100% of the time, i would not risk anything happening to him and i will not leave a child unattended whilst in my care either.

hmm good choice you will be giving the parents, inside with the smoker or outside in the frsh air with the foxes/ dogs/ cats/ baby snatchers.


That is your choice of course.

However my husband smoked for the first 10 years I was a minder, he has thank goodness given up now. He never smoked in the flat we lived in he always smoked outside and never in front of the minded children. All the parents that used me knew this, Ofsted required and before them, Social services that I tell the parents. I was always full with people queing to use my services. I have always been Graded Good and last time only just missed Outstanding.

I do entertain at the weekends and in my holidays, I had 100 friends and family here last Sat for a Christmas Party. I have friends and family who smoke, they all smoke outside only.

Of course now childminder would leave children in a place of danger, how stupid would that be? You would risk assess your garden. I live outside a small Hertfordshire town our garden does not have foxes, we do have cats that come in the garden but you make it sound as if we all have loads of wild animals running wild in our gardens all day and every day and that is far from the truth or reality of it. I don't think anyone has said a child will be left unsupervised either.

I think you have been very unfair to the poster.

[Twinkles]

As a mum i would never use a childminder who lived in a smoking household even if they smoked outside.

i would also never allow my child to be left to sleep outside without someone with him 100% of the time, i would not risk anything happening to him and i will not leave a child unattended whilst in my care either.

hmm good choice you will be giving the parents, inside with the smoker or outside in the frsh air with the foxes/ dogs/ cats/ baby snatchers.

I think that's a little harsh.

Baby snatchers in the shrubbery !

You have no idea how secure the op's garden is and as for leaving a child 'unattended' I personally do not stand over them as they sleep either upstairs or outside. I have baby alarms and do frequent checks.

[hannahemilie]

That hurt:( , am only trying to do my best. Are you suggesting I give up childminding then?

Aw I dont think you should give up, dont be put off by the replies in the thread, including mine! This thread has got a lot of replies, but its nothing against you, its an interesting thread thats all. Do think you should kick the hubby out to smoke tho, hes being very selfish!

[Trpta108]

Aw I dont think you should give up, dont be put off by the replies in the thread, including mine! This thread has got a lot of replies, but its nothing against you, its an interesting thread thats all. Do think you should kick the hubby out to smoke tho, hes being very selfish!

Would love to, but he refuses to even talk about it. Feel quite let down that he wont make that little sacrifice after all the time and effort I have put into this. As many has said it is very likely to cost me business. And after all I am not only doing it for myself, but for the whole family. Sorry, this has turned into a moan now, not what I intended.:blush:

[Helcatt]

As a mum i would never use a childminder who lived in a smoking household even if they smoked outside.

i would also never allow my child to be left to sleep outside without someone with him 100% of the time, i would not risk anything happening to him and i will not leave a child unattended whilst in my care either.

hmm good choice you will be giving the parents, inside with the smoker or outside in the frsh air with the foxes/ dogs/ cats/ baby snatchers.

A touch harsh, I feel! I do not hover over a sleeping baby 100% of the time, they are upstairs while we are downstairs playing and I physically check on them on a regular basis. I also have a monitor so that I can hear/see what is happening in the room. Are you saying that this is inappropriate? That I should not leave their side for the whole time that they are asleep?

Or for a child that falls asleep on the school run, should I have them in the dining room while we are playing, very loudly sometimes? Or can I leave them in the hall where they are safe and secure, I can hear them when they wake? Even though this is not 100% supervised?

Back to the OP!

Smoking hubby is the one that needs a kick up the bum. I keep having to remind my dh that he needs to smoke at the front of the house if I have mindees here - he usually smokes in the back garden (evenings and weekends), but never in the house

I am always upfront and inform people that he does smoke, but let them know what I do to ensure that mindees do not see him smoking or have any after effects from the smoke

HX

[Penny1959]

Trine,
I have read through all the posts and there as many for sleeping outside as not.

As you say in one of your posts you are hoping to attract parents with similar values re using the outside environment. The good thing about childminding is that there are as many different parents as there are childminders - and some parents prefer some childminders while other parents prefer other childminders. Therefore as with this thread some will love the idea while others will not.

So please do not be put off childminding just because some have different views - we are all entitled to our opinion but you do not have to change your ideas. You have a vision for the type of setting that you want and I for one think there is a lot we could learn from scandinainan childcare practices.

Not going to comment on the smoking issue as you want to provide a smoke free environment and it is just a matter of getting DH to agree!


Good Luck in establishing your childminding practice

Penny :)

[sweets]

i agree with the poster about never choosing a smoking household for her child as i wouldnt either!

but the way she said the rest is very harsh.

its all about choice and personal decisions, which we have to respect.

as for the original subject. i leave my mindees outside to sleep on the patio in ok weather but wouldnt if raining or freezing. i remember my mum leaving my little sister out in the fromt garden in all weathers tho to sleep, everyone did it then and no one pinched her! lol

[Trpta108]

Trine,
I have read through all the posts and there as many for sleeping outside as not.

As you say in one of your posts you are hoping to attract parents with similar values re using the outside environment. The good thing about childminding is that there are as many different parents as there are childminders - and some parents prefer some childminders while other parents prefer other childminders. Therefore as with this thread some will love the idea while others will not.

So please do not be put off childminding just because some have different views - we are all entitled to our opinion but you do not have to change your ideas. You have a vision for the type of setting that you want and I for one think there is a lot we could learn from scandinainan childcare practices.

Not going to comment on the smoking issue as you want to provide a smoke free environment and it is just a matter of getting DH to agree!


Good Luck in establishing your childminding practice

Penny :)

Thankyou Penny!:)

[wendywu]

[[
QUOTE]QUOTEhmm good choice you will be giving the parents, inside with the smoker or outside in the frsh air with the foxes/ dogs/ cats/ baby snatchers.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

There always has to be one doesnt there :mad:

[buildingblocks]

What an interesting thread!

I agree with you on this

our culture tells us its not right.
I find this interesting as when I was little (back when dinosaurs existed lol) most children were put outside in prams to sleep and it did us no harm also before central heating so I think that should possibly read in our present day culture. I am also of an era that if you are ill you open windows for fresh air not close all windows and turn the heating up hubby does not agree with me on this one bless him.

I would love to adopt this method myself but would worry what parents thought.
I agree as I love the thought of being outside - oh to live near woods and spend all day there

Maybe you could put together an information pack about your outdoor methods for parents to become better informed.
if any one does this I would love to see what they produce



I would be interested to know the ages of people who agree and disagree with this point of view of sleeping outdoors as I imagine it is younger childminders who possibly don't agree with it and older childminders like myself who think it is a good idea - but I am probably wrong on that.

I am lucky in the fact that I could leave my children outside to sleep and watch them as I have a covered decked area outside my playroom and they would be in fact in my sight 100% of the time which they are not normally as they sleep in a separate room with a monitor on

[Trpta108]

I would be interested to know the ages of people who agree and disagree with this point of view of sleeping outdoors as I imagine it is younger childminders who possibly don't agree with it and older childminders like myself who think it is a good idea - but I am probably wrong on that.

I agree with it and am 32. But as I said in Denmark, where I am from, this is still the done thing. Most parents in Denmark do have bigger, comfier prams and some nurseries even have special outdoor 'bed-prams':thumbsup: .

[sonia ann]

I would be interested to know the ages of people who agree and disagree with this point of view of sleeping outdoors as I imagine it is younger childminders who possibly don't agree with it and older childminders like myself who think it is a good idea - but I am probably wrong on that.
I was thinking the same yesterday :)

[Daftbat]

Sleeping outside is in my opinion ok in warmer weather or where its fairly mild but to be honest I am not happy with it in colder weather. As a parent I would not be happy and as a childminder I think it's not for me.

I am even more flabergasted that a childminder would consider using an outside space regularly for sleeping children in order to allow a smoking room for someone else!!!!! What is the world coming to??? What is more important the health of the child or the supposed comforts of the smoker????

As someone else has said there is no actual issue since Ofsted would not allow it anyway - thank goodness.

[Polly2]

"our present day culture"

Buildingblocks you have worded it much better than me! This is what I meant :rolleyes:

I am 38 by the way :)

[gigglinggoblin]

I am 31 and I half agree. Wind would worry me more than cold, in very windy weather all sorts could fall or get blown onto the pushchair but then I dont have a covered area. Also the fact that I have a pushchair not a pram so children cant lie down, roll over etc as they would i a travel cot. But I would and do leave them out if they fall asleep in the buggy, as long as they are wrapped uip and have a rain cover non extreme weather doesnt concern me. The only reason I suggested getting a bedroom registered is so you have another option if outside isnt safe for whatever reason.

As for the poster who was rather harsh - I would love to come back a year after you start minding and see what you think of your comment then! I suspect after some time caring for several small children at once you might have a different view.

[loocyloo]

my LO sleep outside or inside depending upon their needs.

i have a LO who would not sleep in a cot during the day as far too much to investigate & look at! :rolleyes: but LO was only 9mths and needed sleep in a 10hr day. parents were happy for LO to sleep strapped in buggy, that lies flat, in my totally secure garden. as she got older and longer ( !!! she is very tall ) she moved into the cot and was better at going to sleep!

yesterday i put LO in the garden to sleep, as we needed to be going to school earlier than usual, and if i'd put her in the cot, i would have had to wake her up to go out, where as, sleeping in the buggy, she could sleep as long as she needed and woke up in her own time! ( a much happier child! )

i have never had a parent say they don't wish their child to sleep outside, always suitably clothed and covered with fleeces etc. if it is a foggy, or damp day, or cold, then i put the raincover over.

they sleep just outside the fench windows and i can see them at all times.

my mum used to put my brothers and i out to sleep in the garden! my children slept outside the majority of the time! i'm 39 by the way.

[Chimps Childminding]

In reply to the post about ages, I am 48 and I think that being put outside to sleep is something that we "older" minders would have been used to!!

As for the smoking issue, unfortunately only your dh can help you on that :( My hubby moans about the house being taken over by minding stuff (toys/equipment etc) and to be fair, it is as much his home as mine - told him if he doesn't like it to stay at work longer till mindees have gone and I have tidied up :laughing:

[Winnie]

I would be interested to know the ages of people who agree and disagree with this point of view of sleeping outdoors as I imagine it is younger childminders who possibly don't agree with it and older childminders like myself who think it is a good idea - but I am probably wrong on that.

I am lucky in the fact that I could leave my children outside to sleep and watch them as I have a covered decked area outside my playroom and they would be in fact in my sight 100% of the time which they are not normally as they sleep in a separate room with a monitor on

I'm 52, and as i said in an earlier post when i had my first child the health visitor and all the childcare books encouraged sleeping babies outside all year round- except in foggy weather.

I still agree with this even though times have changed and it has become the accepted norm to have a nursery heated to 16C ,and central heating/double glassing is 'normal' (and it is probably what you younger girls see as normal- maybe that is why you are throwing up your arms in horror?) If you were out on a shopping trip (not in a shopping centre of course :D ) do you throw your arms up in horror and say you can not possibly take a baby shopping because he might fall asleep in the pushchair and get cold??- no you wrap him up warmly and he is perfectly happy- its the same with sleeping outside. If they are wrapped up, laid flat and within sight (with RA done) then it is perfectly acceptable :)

In this country our nurseries have baby sleep rooms that are dim and warm, they appeal to mothers protective nature by being ‘warm and safe’ but they certainly are no safer than any other set-up –if they were then no child would ever be allowed to sleep outside anywhere! I feel that other countries (Denmark being one) have a much more balanced view of what is healthy, wrapping children in cotton wool and sanitizing every aspect of their lives is not healthy but it is an understandable reaction when most of us live our lives far removed from the natural world in cosy centrally heated houses with cars that will warm up before you get in them. Well nourished, healthy children come to no harm- whether they are sleeping and playing- engaging with the outside world.
And for the record I do have some double glazing but my heating runs off a woodburner, I survive :D

[Trpta108]

Sleeping outside is in my opinion ok in warmer weather or where its fairly mild but to be honest I am not happy with it in colder weather. As a parent I would not be happy and as a childminder I think it's not for me.

I am even more flabergasted that a childminder would consider using an outside space regularly for sleeping children in order to allow a smoking room for someone else!!!!! What is the world coming to??? What is more important the health of the child or the supposed comforts of the smoker????

As someone else has said there is no actual issue since Ofsted would not allow it anyway - thank goodness.

To set the record straight, as mentioned in another post, I will register another bedroom for sleeping on cold/windy days but on first floor rather than ground floor which would have been my first choice. Also as mentioned, in scandinavian countries they do put children outside to sleep regularly and they wouldnt do that if it was such a terrible thing.
If you read Sarahs post in this thread you can see that Ofsted does allow smoking in the setting, but not while children are present and must be ventilated well before children are to use the space. My husband has finally agreed to only smoke outside or in the bathroom where it doesnt linger as much. I would prefer a completely smokefree environment (I cant stand the smell myself), but it seems I dont have much choice.

[caz3007]

To set the record straight, as mentioned in another post, I will register another bedroom for sleeping on cold/windy days but on first floor rather than ground floor which would have been my first choice. Also as mentioned, in scandinavian countries they do put children outside to sleep regularly and they wouldnt do that if it was such a terrible thing.
If you read Sarahs post in this thread you can see that Ofsted does allow smoking in the setting, but not while children are present and must be ventilated well before children are to use the space. My husband has finally agreed to only smoke outside or in the bathroom where it doesnt linger as much. I would prefer a completely smokefree environment (I cant stand the smell myself), but it seems I dont have much choice.

I am not a smoker and would personally choose to send my child to a non smoking childminder. Having said that I have never ever been asked by a parent if we are smokers and at least one of my current parents is a smoker and I can smell they dont mind smoking around the LO. My DD smokes when she comes to visit but knows its outside as we dont want our son exposed to it.

Mind you, I can understand your hubby probably feels its his home and he should be able to do what he wishes in his own home if you dont have any mindies present. Glad he has compromised though

[Heaven Scent]

Can all of you who do not agree with children being put outside to sleep in very cold weather please tell me what they do with these mindees when they have to do the school run - Leave them at home unattended in a centrally heated house by any chance??????

No you don't - you wrap them up warm and walk to school - what is the difference???

I provide a huge variety of sleeping provision for children - fold up mattresses, Travel cots, push chairs and one particular child sleeps outside in a large old fashioned waterproof Silver Cross Pram almost all year round and that is the ONLY place she will sleep and she just loves it - I've tried everything else - she doesn't sleep during the day for her mum or the huge veriety of Nana's who care for her on the days she doesn't come to me.

Mum knows where she sleeps and is more than happy with it and this child has never been off ill once and never gets colds. I only have one of these prams so she is the only one who sleeps outside - she is actually starting to get a bit big for it so in the spring we may need to re think her sleeping arrangements - I always place the pram right next to the window of the room where I will be while the LO's are sleeping.

All of our warm cozy centrally carpeted homes are responsible for a huge variety of illnesses and allergies which were not so prevalent 20 - 30 years ago.

I also have a smoking husband who since we met has NEVER been allowed to smoke indoors when with me or in our cars. I think nowadays we all are more than adequately aware of the dangers of smoking and those that do smoke need to consider those who don't smoke when partaking themselves.

[caz3007]

Heaven Scent - I am jealous of your silver cross pram, loved mine when my older DS was little and my DD who was three at the time, used to climb in the shopping basket and sleep under there too

[samb]

Hi in answer to your question about ages I am 29 and a "I wouldn't put a child outside for a sleep on their own". I think being outside is not necessarily my biggest issue but being alone. I just don't feel like outside is as safe as inside. Maybe I would see it differently if I lived in a house that had a covered area right next to a room I would be using inside in a quiet rural location. I certainly think it is fine for children to fall asleep in the buggy on a school run etc - you would be with them then. Sorry if I have caused offence I really did not mean to. I found it very interesting and had never really thought about it before. I listen to stories of my Mum being put at the bottom of the garden in a pram to sleep (she is 47) and never even thought people still do it in England today to be honest - just never heard anyone saying it other than in a past context.

I also agree with others that as long as you risk assess and speak to the parents to gain their permission I am sure you will make a fab childminder as you are very thorough about your thought processes before making decisions - we can see that from this thread! Good luck and I hope you get set up soon.

[singingcactus]

I would be interested to know the ages of people who agree and disagree with this point of view of sleeping outdoors as I imagine it is younger childminders who possibly don't agree with it and older childminders like myself who think it is a good idea - but I am probably wrong on that.



:eek: Are you saying I am old!!!! :eek: I'm 38 and I still think it is a good idea even after reading the posts about wild animals, and baby snatchers :) . I think as long as your premises are secure, and the children are monitored then the benefits of getting this additional fresh air are too good to miss.
Now obviously, if your garden is filled with rampaging foxes, cats and tigers or you are next to a halfway house for baby snatchers then you would probably not want to go down this route unless you could securely cage in an area. But for those of us who live in areas other than this, and those of us who can provide supervision whilst the children nap then this is a good idea in many ways.

[Daftbat]

Can all of you who do not agree with children being put outside to sleep in very cold weather please tell me what they do with these mindees when they have to do the school run - Leave them at home unattended in a centrally heated house by any chance??????

No you don't - you wrap them up warm and walk to school - what is the difference???

I provide a huge variety of sleeping provision for children - fold up mattresses, Travel cots, push chairs and one particular child sleeps outside in a large old fashioned waterproof Silver Cross Pram almost all year round and that is the ONLY place she will sleep and she just loves it - I've tried everything else - she doesn't sleep during the day for her mum or the huge veriety of Nana's who care for her on the days she doesn't come to me.

Mum knows where she sleeps and is more than happy with it and this child has never been off ill once and never gets colds. I only have one of these prams so she is the only one who sleeps outside - she is actually starting to get a bit big for it so in the spring we may need to re think her sleeping arrangements - I always place the pram right next to the window of the room where I will be while the LO's are sleeping.

All of our warm cozy centrally carpeted homes are responsible for a huge variety of illnesses and allergies which were not so prevalent 20 - 30 years ago.

I also have a smoking husband who since we met has NEVER been allowed to smoke indoors when with me or in our cars. I think nowadays we all are more than adequately aware of the dangers of smoking and those that do smoke need to consider those who don't smoke when partaking themselves.


When school runs are done we of course have to take children out in the cold weather - this morning it was -2.5 and I was keen to get the children back indoors as soon aspossible. Thats the difference as far as I am concerned - I think that its a whole different ball game to make a necessary trip out in the cold and do that trip as quickly as possible rather than try to ensure that a child is wrapped up warm enough to spend perhaps an hour and a half or more outside in the cold whilst sleeping. Is the childminder going to sit outside with the child - all wrapped up warm in a garden chair - I think not! In warmer weather yes, no problem so long as the environment is safe but not in cold conditions - and certainly not to provide nice warm facilities for a grown adult to have a comfortable smoke. I am sorry if I cause any offence but I feel very very strongly about whose needs are being met here - the child's should come first in this particular instance.

[Mrs Book]

[QUOTE=singingcactus;833184]:eek: Are you saying I am old!!!! :eek: I'm 38 and I still think it is a good idea even after reading the posts about wild animals, and baby snatchers :) . I think as long as your premises are secure, and the children are monitored then the benefits of getting this additional fresh air are too good to miss. QUOTE]

If your old at 38 then I'm acient at 42 :laughing: My own children have slept in the garden many a times when they were little, outside the back door where I can see them.

Like someone else said what you going to do when they fall asleep on the school run, leave them at home! A very good option for those who have assisstants. Yes our homes are warm but some nurseries and schools can have heat that is very stiffeling (sp). At the end of the day it is each to their own and as long as parent's are happy and for those obsessed with RA's one is done, then just let the child sleep. As long as they sleep and are safe, who cares where they go to the land of nod.

Rather they sleep in the garden then have a full scale tantrum at teatime because you wouldn't let them sleep, just because outside was the only option.

[Trpta108]

Hi in answer to your question about ages I am 29 and a "I wouldn't put a child outside for a sleep on their own". I think being outside is not necessarily my biggest issue but being alone. I just don't feel like outside is as safe as inside. Maybe I would see it differently if I lived in a house that had a covered area right next to a room I would be using inside in a quiet rural location. I certainly think it is fine for children to fall asleep in the buggy on a school run etc - you would be with them then. Sorry if I have caused offence I really did not mean to. I found it very interesting and had never really thought about it before. I listen to stories of my Mum being put at the bottom of the garden in a pram to sleep (she is 47) and never even thought people still do it in England today to be honest - just never heard anyone saying it other than in a past context.

I also agree with others that as long as you risk assess and speak to the parents to gain their permission I am sure you will make a fab childminder as you are very thorough about your thought processes before making decisions - we can see that from this thread! Good luck and I hope you get set up soon.

Thankyou Samb. I am very passionate about childcare and only want to do my best.:)

[angeldelight]

My mom used to put me outside in the pram when I was a baby

Now I am showing my age :eek:

Never did me any harm........... or did it :laughing: :laughing:

Angel xx

[manjay]

I absolutely would let children sleep outside and very often do. Although I am not sure I would be happy with it being my only sleeping option. I don't think I am old at 41 but I think my opinion has only changed since I have studied indepth Scandinavian child care practices. They have far superior ways than this country imo.

With regard to the smoking I can't agree on that one I'm afraid. My dh is a smoker but there is absolutely no way I would let him smoke inside our house and put mine and our childrens health at risk. I personally can't stand the smell of smoke and hate when I go into a smokers houes.

[Mouse]

My mom used to put me outside in the pram when I was a baby

Now I am showing my age :eek:

Never did me any harm........... or did it :laughing: :laughing:

Angel xx

No comment ;) :littleangel:

[angeldelight]

No comment ;) :littleangel:

Hey

It is the season of good will you know

:laughing: :laughing:

Angel xx

[Alibali]

We have an outdoor nursery near to us, and the children are outside all day every day in all weather. They set up hammocks between trees etc for nap times. I know it doesn't appeal to everyone, but I would have loved an environment like that for my own children, we try to spend as much time as possible outside and if we're out and the los need to sllep, then they do so outside. I don't do it at home, but thats cos I like being cosy in my home:)

Her's a link if anyone is interested.
http://woodlandoutdoorkindergartens.co.uk/default.aspx

[Trpta108]

We have an outdoor nursery near to us, and the children are outside all day every day in all weather. They set up hammocks between trees etc for nap times. I know it doesn't appeal to everyone, but I would have loved an environment like that for my own children, we try to spend as much time as possible outside and if we're out and the los need to sllep, then they do so outside. I don't do it at home, but thats cos I like being cosy in my home:)

Her's a link if anyone is interested.
http://woodlandoutdoorkindergartens.co.uk/default.aspx

Looks great, just up my street. Thanks for the link.:thumbsup:

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Mine are outside in most weathers - not at the moment though

Fresh clean air is good for them

[Kimmy050983]

We have an outdoor nursery near to us, and the children are outside all day every day in all weather. They set up hammocks between trees etc for nap times. I know it doesn't appeal to everyone, but I would have loved an environment like that for my own children, we try to spend as much time as possible outside and if we're out and the los need to sllep, then they do so outside. I don't do it at home, but thats cos I like being cosy in my home:)

Her's a link if anyone is interested.
http://woodlandoutdoorkindergartens.co.uk/default.aspx

that is brillant. think i need to move. that is exactly what i would love for jamie´s kindergarten....
we´re outside every day, in any weather. I am very into waldorf / steiner philosophy especially leaving children to be children. don´t think it has done us harm playing out every day. or not having all those plastic toys...
my boy has slept outside (we have got a big german pram with carrycot) many times-- not all the time but when he did i would either do gardenwork or be in the room next to the patio door so i could see/hear him..
i am not used to kids being wrapped in cotton wool. i am from germany though..

[~Grasshopper~]

why am i harsh, am i not entitled to my opinion????

i just stated what i think as a mother. i have 2 young boys of my own and i wouldnt leave them alone to sleep outside, i dont feel it is safe. its not an issue about the weather for me its about saftey.

i also work in the criminal justice system and have seen to many awful awful things that happen to children and would never risk my precious children.

yes i leave my children upstairs asleep with monitors on, in a locked house whilst im in the next room. Not outside alone. when my youngest falls asleep on the school run i bring him in and leave the pram in the porch with him asleep.

i am 29 :)

Trine, i am sorry if i upset you but i was only stating my opinion. After all you posted here asking what people thought.

I removed my eldest from a childminder as he came home everyday smelling of smoke and she said she didnt smoke!!!!!!!!. its not just the smell, its dangerous for children to be around smokers, my baby has bronchitis at the moment and the community nurse has quized me today about any smokers in the house. No one here smokes though.

[FussyElmo]

If you had suggested to me putting my eldest dd outside to sleep when she was a baby then I would have been horrified however 11 years later I am more open to these ideals. Obivoulsy not in the freezing conditions but yes I think I would.

Trine I hope you get parents who are as embracing of your ideals as you are.

Ps my dh used to smoke however it was never an option for him to smoke in the house and he did eventually give up got fed up of smoking in the cold :)

[Vickster]

I have left my children outside to sleep all snug and there was snow on the ground. He had the rain cover over him so his own micro climate. I can't leave them out here as our house leads onto the path and by the time I have clonked them through the inside to put them out they will have prob woke up. As for smoking, I hope he gives up.

I am ancient 36 ;)

[Fabby]

Absolutely no way would i leave a child outside asleep. I would never ever be able to forgive myself if ANYTHING happened to them when they could be sleeping inside my locked and secure house.

How would you feel if something happened to one of those children whilst in your care, when it could of been avoided by sleeping inside a locked house?

The thread as gone a bit of topic here by saying about ''watching over the children whilst sleeping'' i am sure none of us stand over them and watch them but i am sure we all ''check on them'' regulary in our locked and secure house.

Of course they need fresh air but there are other ways of providing this in my opinion.

I am not sure why some posts have mentioned that us who dont agree with this, would we be leaving the children at home whilst we do the school run.......... very off topic....... of course not!

I would never dream of keeping children outside to sleep.

[Fabby]

Just thought, we are not allowed to leave a child in a car unattended so how come leaving a child outside unattended is allowed?

And

Is it a legal requirement to have our doors locked?
My Do is alwys asking if i lock my doors

Also

Doesn't rooms that are being used for the children have to be at a certain temperature??? So outdoors can either obviously be too cold or too hot...

Sorry, i am just finding it very hard to understand

[little chickee]

I usually put my lo's to sleep in travel cot in the playroom or pram which i put into my room.

Today my boys were off school because of snow and i had a almost 2yo needing a sleep and a 3yo who wanted to be in the playroom.

My son was watching tv in my room so after having read this thread over the past couple of days i put lo into snowsuit, hat and blankets and put her to sleep in my pram in the conservatory which is not heated and is pretty cold - she slept perfectly for an hour and half and would def do it again.

[Mouse]

Just thought, we are not allowed to leave a child in a car unattended so how come leaving a child outside unattended is allowed?

And

Is it a legal requirement to have our doors locked?
My Do is alwys asking if i lock my doors

I think the difference is probably that if you leave a child unattended in a car it is usually to go into school or go into a shop or petrol station etc, when you atually go away from the car and could not see or hear them.

If children are sleeping outside they are probably closer than if they are in an upstairs room! No one is saying children should be out in the garden with the doors shut & no one taking any notice of them. When I leave children outside they are under a shelter, in a locked garden (through 2 locked gates) and just outside the kitchen window. The backdoor is open & I can see and hear them at all times.

[little chickee]

If you have a secure garden i do not think there is much difference between putting a child to sleep next to the house outside or in a bedroom.

I cant see much difference between a child being behind a closed door in a bedroom and being just outside my back door. With reference to my earlier post about the HV coming to visit while my son was sleeping in his pram in the shed next to the caravan she said that she did'nt consider it to be any different from a child being in an bedroom in the house.

All you have to do is pop outside to check or pop upstairs or pop to the next room to check.

[Mouse]

Just thought, we are not allowed to leave a child in a car unattended so how come leaving a child outside unattended is allowed?

And

Is it a legal requirement to have our doors locked?
My Do is alwys asking if i lock my doors

Also

Doesn't rooms that are being used for the children have to be at a certain temperature??? So outdoors can either obviously be too cold or too hot...

Sorry, i am just finding it very hard to understand

And my front door is always locked, but not the back door as I am always in the room. If I leave the room I lock the door.
Are you saying we shouldn't leave a backdoor open during the summer and should always have it locked?

[solly]

Ihave read this thread with interest and i personally would not leave a child to sleep outside and that is why I have my upstairs registered to sleep children. The various buggies i have all fit through my front door apart from my triple, but if a child fell aslepp whilst I was using that then i would probably stay out a bit longer so they had a sleep or try and get them out of the buggy without to much disturbance which I have managed plenty of times

[Daftbat]

Absolutely no way would i leave a child outside asleep. I would never ever be able to forgive myself if ANYTHING happened to them when they could be sleeping inside my locked and secure house.

How would you feel if something happened to one of those children whilst in your care, when it could of been avoided by sleeping inside a locked house?

The thread as gone a bit of topic here by saying about ''watching over the children whilst sleeping'' i am sure none of us stand over them and watch them but i am sure we all ''check on them'' regulary in our locked and secure house.

Of course they need fresh air but there are other ways of providing this in my opinion.

I am not sure why some posts have mentioned that us who dont agree with this, would we be leaving the children at home whilst we do the school run.......... very off topic....... of course not!

I would never dream of keeping children outside to sleep.

I completely agree:thumbsup:

[Daftbat]

why am i harsh, am i not entitled to my opinion????

i just stated what i think as a mother. i have 2 young boys of my own and i wouldnt leave them alone to sleep outside, i dont feel it is safe. its not an issue about the weather for me its about saftey.

i also work in the criminal justice system and have seen to many awful awful things that happen to children and would never risk my precious children.

yes i leave my children upstairs asleep with monitors on, in a locked house whilst im in the next room. Not outside alone. when my youngest falls asleep on the school run i bring him in and leave the pram in the porch with him asleep.

i am 29 :)

Trine, i am sorry if i upset you but i was only stating my opinion. After all you posted here asking what people thought.

I removed my eldest from a childminder as he came home everyday smelling of smoke and she said she didnt smoke!!!!!!!!. its not just the smell, its dangerous for children to be around smokers, my baby has bronchitis at the moment and the community nurse has quized me today about any smokers in the house. No one here smokes though.

I don't think you are harsh - I agree with you. I have had a child come to me rather than go to family members because the grandparent smoked and in my humble opinion if smoking is that much of an issue that a grown adult cannot go outside for five minutes then the childminder needs to decide whether its going to be the right job for her. It's not just smoking - its the working together that is required between couples if childminding is going to be carried out on the premises. In my experience it can only really work if you have the support of your family - its a hard enough job in itself without any added issues.

[~Grasshopper~]

I don't think you are harsh - I agree with you. I have had a child come to me rather than go to family members because the grandparent smoked and in my humble opinion if smoking is that much of an issue that a grown adult cannot go outside for five minutes then the childminder needs to decide whether its going to be the right job for her. It's not just smoking - its the working together that is required between couples if childminding is going to be carried out on the premises. In my experience it can only really work if you have the support of your family - its a hard enough job in itself without any added issues.

thank you hun, if you read back a lot of people are against it - the smoking and the outside napping but at the end of the day if you, Ofsted and the parents are happy with it then its up to you.

[caz3007]

And my front door is always locked, but not the back door as I am always in the room. If I leave the room I lock the door.
Are you saying we shouldn't leave a backdoor open during the summer and should always have it locked?

My front door is also locked at all times, with the key within reach of an adult. My backdoor is always unlocked, but then my garden is fully enclosed with a 6ft fence and locked gate, and any intruder would have to come past me at any time to reach the children

[gigglinggoblin]

My garden has a 6 foot wall with a locked back gate which also has some wiry fencing stuff over the top. Yes people could get in but then they could also kick in the front door or just knock on it and the bop me on the head when I open it. I am not expecting it to happen. We can never be 100% safe if you think like that but I believe my garden is as safe with me in the next room as it would be to have a child upstairs.

[Louise0208]

sorry if i repeat, i have not read the whole thread.....its too much for a sunday morning :laughing:

my old CM's new assistant was a smoker, she only smoked outside (we were all close friends so i know this for sure) yet the house still reaked of smoke as standing outside the door will not stop it travelling through the house. my kids used to come home stinking :( even through hugs & play from the assistant the smell transfered.......and i was constantly washing the pram covers & blankets cus as a non smoker i could smell it strait away!

i chose to quit smoking when i fell pregnant with my now 13 yr old for mine & my childrens health, i wouldnt expect to send them to a house where a smoker smokes in the house....im your typical self rightious Ex-smoker :rolleyes: can tell one from a mile off :laughing:

im 50/50 on the outside sleeping, my kids slept better while outside but not all children can tollerate being outside for long periods of time, my friend has a LO with Downs & when hes outside his tear ducts weep which glue his eyes shut when sleeping, also excsma (cant spell it sorry) sufferer's skin can crack so easy during the colder months.....and then theres the added soreness from the cold getting around dummy dribble, runny noses etc

During the summer i try to let them stay outside as much as possible & im lucky enough to have an old silver cross pram that they can sleep in but i would have to be out there with them.....you hear too many horror stories to take any risks.

[manjay]

I don't think any of us is advocating putting a child outside on a busy pavement where it is possible for anyone to walk off with them!!

My garden is also fully enclosed and would be really difficult for anyone to get in. Plus as the child is just outside the patio doors I can see them much better than if they were upstairs. I can see them constantly. I have risk assessed and for me it is a perfectly viable option.

As i said I wouldn't be happy for it to be my only option for sleeping as it wouldn't work for every child. But I have undertaken extensive research on this and I have made an informed choice.

It is obvious that everyone has very strong and different views on this but that is just what they are - our views:thumbsup:

[Louise0208]

As i said I wouldn't be happy for it to be my only option for sleeping :

i think thats the major issue :thumbsup: i would be gutted if i found out my LO was sleeping in -8 as it was 'the only option' :eek:

[Heaven Scent]

Heaven Scent - I am jealous of your silver cross pram, loved mine when my older DS was little and my DD who was three at the time, used to climb in the shopping basket and sleep under there too

Oh I wouldn't be its old, well used and faded but that particular mindee loves it and without it she would never sleep and believe me that would be a nightmare as she was a terrible screamer and still can be when she gets tired. It was given to me by a local lady who is an ex childminder and is now a foster carer who moved out of the area and wasn't taking it with her.

[mayberry]

Trine,
I have read through all the posts and there as many for sleeping outside as not.

As you say in one of your posts you are hoping to attract parents with similar values re using the outside environment. The good thing about childminding is that there are as many different parents as there are childminders - and some parents prefer some childminders while other parents prefer other childminders. Therefore as with this thread some will love the idea while others will not.

So please do not be put off childminding just because some have different views - we are all entitled to our opinion but you do not have to change your ideas. You have a vision for the type of setting that you want and I for one think there is a lot we could learn from scandinainan childcare practices.

Not going to comment on the smoking issue as you want to provide a smoke free environment and it is just a matter of getting DH to agree!


Good Luck in establishing your childminding practice

Penny :)

well put penny I think all areas have been coverd. don't give up Trine :) Good luck with your childminding all the best for 2011. :clapping:

[francinejayne]

I put my 2 mindees outside to sleep - even in this weather!!! (Oh gosh, I am awaiting the abuse now! :laughing: )

I wrap them up really well, thick snowsuits / sleep suits, hats, mittens, lots of blankets, cosy toes on the pram, rain cover over them if it's damp or windy or particularly cold. They are in my back garden which is secure and I can see them at all times. Usually they sleep for between 1.5 and 2.5 hours during the afternoon this way.

When I get them back in when they have woken, their cheeks are cold, but the rest of them is toasty warm!

I firmly believe that it is great for the little ones to be outside in the fresh air in peace and quiet as long as they are well wrapped up and safe!

[Daftbat]

I put my 2 mindees outside to sleep - even in this weather!!! (Oh gosh, I am awaiting the abuse now! :laughing: )

I wrap them up really well, thick snowsuits / sleep suits, hats, mittens, lots of blankets, cosy toes on the pram, rain cover over them if it's damp or windy or particularly cold. They are in my back garden which is secure and I can see them at all times. Usually they sleep for between 1.5 and 2.5 hours during the afternoon this way.

When I get them back in when they have woken, their cheeks are cold, but the rest of them is toasty warm!

I firmly believe that it is great for the little ones to be outside in the fresh air in peace and quiet as long as they are well wrapped up and safe!

I am gobsmacked!!!!!!!!!!

I am all for children getting fresh air rather than being cooped up inside all day but can't this be done whislt they are awake and have the chance to see what's going on in the world? There is no need to be doing this in very cold weather like we are having now - it's minus 2 at best for goodness sake?

Is anyone willing to sleep outside themselves tonight rather than in their nice warm beds?????? If its Ok for the little ones perhaps we should all do it?

[Trpta108]

well put penny I think all areas have been coverd. don't give up Trine :) Good luck with your childminding all the best for 2011. :clapping:

Thankyou Mayberry, happy new year to you too:) ! Our crbs came back last week so expecting the certificate any day now:D !

[berkschick]

I put my 2 mindees outside to sleep - even in this weather!!! (Oh gosh, I am awaiting the abuse now! :laughing: )

I wrap them up really well, thick snowsuits / sleep suits, hats, mittens, lots of blankets, cosy toes on the pram, rain cover over them if it's damp or windy or particularly cold. They are in my back garden which is secure and I can see them at all times. Usually they sleep for between 1.5 and 2.5 hours during the afternoon this way.

When I get them back in when they have woken, their cheeks are cold, but the rest of them is toasty warm!

I firmly believe that it is great for the little ones to be outside in the fresh air in peace and quiet as long as they are well wrapped up and safe!

How are your parents with this arrangement?

[Rubybubbles]

Great topic and debate:thumbsup:

I am all for lo sleeping when on the school run in pushchair ect but I wouldn't put them outside to sleep.

Not a smoker or any in the household, but I can smell it on mindies clothes (2 lo's brothers) it's not nice, their little coats reek of stale smoke hhwweeeyyyy!

I do actually agree that it should be okay for letting lo sleep outside, but not for me;)

[francinejayne]

How are your parents with this arrangement?

They are happy with it!

I do have other options for sleeping (I have a travel cot that can go in my bedroom upstairs) but all my parents put their babies in their prams during the day and they've asked that I do the same!

I don't have any little ones today, but will have two tomorrow and at the moment it's -10 outside so I've decided that if it's like this tomorrow it's too cold for them to be outside for hours so I'm going to put one upstairs and another one in the hall in the pram tomorrow, but it then means I'll have to keep the other ones away from the sleeping babies otherwise they'll get disturbed.

[Pipsqueak]

I have allowed and still let minded and my kids (when they were tots) to sleep outside - well wrapped up and secure. I am also never far away.
Here is an EXCELLENT programme - well worth watching.
http://www.teachers.tv/videos/sweden-early-years

I do wonder if there is a link between all the snotty nosed children nowadays and the not-enough-bracing-freshair type thing we all got as tots.

With regards to the baby snatchers.... sorry yet again we are letting our paranoia get in the way of rational thinking. Its the media induced worry that there is a pedophile lurking on every street corner.

With regards to the animals - so long as you take the necessary precuations and only each of us "know" our areas well enough to know about foxes, the dodgy cat from across the way etc and other visitors to the garden then again common sense needs to be put into place.


Re the smoking...... I have recently quit (5 months ago) and NOT ONE parent knew I smoked they were all really shocked and suprised to find out that I did - even the non-smoking families. Even my non smoking DO and NCMA office ladies were gobsmacked to find out that I did. There has been a comment about removing their child from the minders because she claimed she didn't smoke but it could be smelled on the child. has it occured to that person (sorry forget who made the comment) that other options should have been considered such as:

I have children come to me from smoking homes and their clothes, bags, buggies stink of smoke and this makes other things in my house smell
that the minder had been out and about and been near someone who was smoking

[mum2two]

If the parents are happy - then that's all that matters! You will get parents who hate the idea & will not consider using you, and others that love the idea, although, I do agree having an alternative place for days like today when it's -10...

But then that is in everything we do as childminders. The parents choose us over another cm for a particular reason.

I haven't had any out in this cold, but DS was born in Aug & was a screamer. He had a big mama's & papa's pram, which I covered in a cat net & put him in the garden to cry & settle himself, whilst I got on with things!

We are very outdoorsy childminders & like to get out & about in the woods etc, so children fall asleep in buggies. School runs/park outings etc, if they fall asleep on the way back, are wheeled into the (secure) back garden & left to sleep whilst we all play. (Parental permission obtained too!)

I think I, yes we could all become overly paranoid about animals, kidnappers etc, but then we'd never step foot outside the house. We just have to get on with life & as long as everyone involved is happy - it's all good! :thumbsup:

Glad your CRB's come, hope you get your ceft soon! Let us know how you get on with this idea.

xx

[Fabby]

Sorry, still dont agree with this whatsoever. I asked one of my mindee's mum how she would feel about this and you should of seen the look on her face! Spoke a thousand words!!

[gigglinggoblin]

Is anyone willing to sleep outside themselves tonight rather than in their nice warm beds?????? If its Ok for the little ones perhaps we should all do it?

Actually when it snowed last time my dh slept outside over night. He had a good sleeping bag and as I said we have a secure garden.

All the men who were told thought it was a fantastic idea. All the women (bar one I think) thought he was off his rocker! He said it was lovely and the sleeping bag kept him lovely and warm.

[Pipsqueak]

Sorry, still dont agree with this whatsoever. I asked one of my mindee's mum how she would feel about this and you should of seen the look on her face! Spoke a thousand words!!

yes but WHY? its because we are 'conditioned' in this country to instantly discount and turn our nose up at different and old fashioned practices.

once over babies were bundled up and left outside in their prams - often because there was no extra room in the house. lots of belief in the beneficial properties of bracing fresh air.

[Pipsqueak]

Is anyone willing to sleep outside themselves tonight rather than in their nice warm beds?????? If its Ok for the little ones perhaps we should all do it?

I have slept out in minus type weather and I am off my trolley! lol

[Fabby]

yes but WHY? its because we are 'conditioned' in this country to instantly discount and turn our nose up at different and old fashioned practices.

once over babies were bundled up and left outside in their prams - often because there was no extra room in the house. lots of belief in the beneficial properties of bracing fresh air.


I just dont agree with it, sorry

[Pipsqueak]

I just dont agree with it, sorry

sorry I'm not having a pop at your opinion but I am genuinely interested as to why your parent thought it was such a bad idea.

[Fabby]

Suppose she just didnt want her child in my garden (which is secured) when he could be indoors.

This baffles me and i really dont understand the 'good' behind it. My opinion though.

I asked this parent in a none biased way so she didnt guess what my response to it was and you should of seen the look on her face..... she looked at me as if i had just fallen off my christmas tree!

[Pipsqueak]

Suppose she just didnt want her child in my garden (which is secured) when he could be indoors.

This baffles me and i really dont understand the 'good' behind it. My opinion though.

I asked this parent in a none biased way so she didnt guess what my response to it was and you should of seen the look on her face..... she looked at me as if i had just fallen off my christmas tree!

ah you see I when I explain to parents that I allow the little ones to nap outside, I do explain the benefits behind it and that I wrap them up well etc and that I am never far away and probably 'check' them more than I would do (every 15 mins indoors.

Ways and practices have changed over the years and so have ideas.

[Tinglesnark]

i personally would not agree to it. I wouldnt let my puppy sleep outside in the cold and i certainly wouldnt allow my children to!
fair play to everyone that would but it is NOT for me :) too many foxes on the prowl in my garden and in any case - that is why God made houses.... :laughing:

[Fabby]

Like somone else said.... bet we wont catch any of you who agrees on outside napping, going for a nap outside in this weather! bet you wouldnt sleep in a tent in your garden tonight.... correct me if i am wrong

[Pipsqueak]

Like somone else said.... bet we wont catch any of you who agrees on outside napping, going for a nap outside in this weather! bet you wouldnt sleep in a tent in your garden tonight.... correct me if i am wrong

Am correcting you - I have slept out in minus weather on several occasions with and without a tent and not just in my garden.
I have also slept out with my (now 13yr old) baby in cold and horrid weather.

[gigglinggoblin]

Like somone else said.... bet we wont catch any of you who agrees on outside napping, going for a nap outside in this weather! bet you wouldnt sleep in a tent in your garden tonight.... correct me if i am wrong

I already did! Dh didnt use a tent, just a sleeping bag.

[IndigoMoon]

I have put children outdoors to sleep in the pram or a big pushchair! :eek: :eek:

We are a very outdoors/nature-orientated setting and I discuss at length with parents at interview how much time we spend outdoors and ask if they are happy with that - if they were not I would recommend another childminder who stayed in more. Any child in my care who has been put outside for a nap has previously been given permission by parents and I have never ever been refused permission.

Outside of my playroom is a patio with totally glass patio doors all along the wall. I can see the child(ren) all the time, when awake they can see me so do not get distressed at being put away from us.

We live in the country, have lovely fresh air and birds singing all year and the children are well wrapped and they do not get cold. My garden is secure, our chaffinches and blue-tits do not tend to be of the Alfred Hitchcock variety and so far here the foxes have not mauled anybody, possibly they're far too busy trying to work out how to get into the chicken runs...

.................................................. .........

To the member who posted she would never leave her minded children unattended I would just like to say that going to the loo with a baby perched on your lap, a two year old trying to see your bits and a five year old talking you ears off whilst 'facing the door' is not fun at all after the initial trial - believe me you will leave those children unattended for a minute or two and do a whole host of other things that you presently think you will never do because in the real world there is often very little alternative.

[~Grasshopper~]

It was me and i meant unattended outside alone. I am a mother of 2 and i know how demanding children can be however i will NEVER leave any child outside unwatched. I live in the middle of a town and last year whilst i was very close by a fox snatched my rabbit and dragged her over the 6ft fence, she was a giant rabbit much bigger and heavier than my 9mth old baby is now, you never know what might have happened had a baby been asleep in a pram. .................................................. .........

To the member who posted she would never leave her minded children unattended I would just like to say that going to the loo with a baby perched on your lap, a two year old trying to see your bits and a five year old talking you ears off whilst 'facing the door' is not fun at all after the initial trial - believe me you will leave those children unattended for a minute or two and do a whole host of other things that you presently think you will never do because in the real world there is often very little alternative.[/QUOTE]

[Pipsqueak]

i understand your concerns and what you are saying but fox attacks on humans are still very uncommon and what you are describing about your rabbit (and I get that that event was and is distressing) was what foxes do. Prey on smaller animals for their food source and in urban environments it is more or less there on a plate for them.

what has made it 'big' news at the moment is the recent attack on those poor twins.

what people also forget though is that so many previously rural animals are having their turf invaded by us - humans - leaving them no where else to go and that is why they are becoming so much more prominent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8726282.stm


I think there needs to be some perspective on this, much the same as the belief that there is a sex offender on every corner.

[IndigoMoon]

It was me and i meant unattended outside alone. I am a mother of 2 and i know how demanding children can be however i will NEVER leave any child outside unwatched. I live in the middle of a town and last year whilst i was very close by a fox snatched my rabbit and dragged her over the 6ft fence, she was a giant rabbit much bigger and heavier than my 9mth old baby is now, you never know what might have happened had a baby been asleep in a pram. [/QUOTE]

I'm very sorry for the loss of your rabbit, that must have been simply awful.

A rabbit is a fox's natural food though, a human baby is not and whilst you may get one rogue fox which makes the news there are millions of normal foxes which do not maul children and hundreds and thousands of small children who play (or indeed sleep) outside every day and do not get attacked by foxes.

Hugs x

edited to add - sorry Pip we seems to have cross posted and said pretty much the same thing. It took me ages to write as I wanted to make sure it was inoffensive but said what I meant...

[~Grasshopper~]

i know rabbits are foxes food source but i personally dont feel safe knowing they come into my garden and as i still have rabbits i know foxes are around.

x

[Daftbat]

sorry I'm not having a pop at your opinion but I am genuinely interested as to why your parent thought it was such a bad idea.

Hi Pip,

I don't normally disagree with you but I am afraid as you can see from my posts I do on this issue. I too consulted some mums at school when this was first raised - some I work for and others I don't. They were all against the idea - they thought it ok in better weather if I was going to be in the garden etc with other children but they said that if I was going to be inside in the warm it didn't seem like "proper" care of their child to leave them outside in the cold regardless of how they were "bundled" up to keep warm. Regulalry in the last week or so a two year old has fallen asleep on the school run and i have brought the buggy in to the house and removed layers/undone clothes etc to keep the temperature suitable for her and I will continue to do the same in the future. Whilst I am sure that it suits some people it doesn't "sit" well with me and from the straw poll I took I would be out of business if I did it anyway.

PS.Well done to you for sleeping outside in cold weather - why no tent? Were you waiting for the next sale to start???:laughing: (Have a good Xmas:thumbsup: )

[jane5]

It was me and i meant unattended outside alone. I am a mother of 2 and i know how demanding children can be however i will NEVER leave any child outside unwatched. I live in the middle of a town and last year whilst i was very close by a fox snatched my rabbit and dragged her over the 6ft fence, she was a giant rabbit much bigger and heavier than my 9mth old baby is now, you never know what might have happened had a baby been asleep in a pram. .................................................. .........

To the member who posted she would never leave her minded children unattended I would just like to say that going to the loo with a baby perched on your lap, a two year old trying to see your bits and a five year old talking you ears off whilst 'facing the door' is not fun at all after the initial trial - believe me you will leave those children unattended for a minute or two and do a whole host of other things that you presently think you will never do because in the real world there is often very little alternative.[/QUOTE]
I agree suz.

Its about risk assessment and to me the risk of leaving them out side unattended is not one I want to take.

20 years ago my 3 year old was bitten on the face by a ''very friendly family dog who had never shown aggression before''. I never take chances with any animals now.

I have worked with abused children and as far as I am concerned, when it comes to my dds safety I look after her as if there is a sex offender on every corner (because there very often is)

I am 43 and when I was little we would play out by the river for 10 hours without seeing our parents. We would never allow our children to do that now and we do have to take risks in life or we would never leave the house but leaving my dd out side unattended is one risk I dont have to take.

[~Grasshopper~]

thank you jane :)

i have sight of the local peodofile registar and i know we have an awful lot in our area. not a risk im willing to take either.

gosh when i was about 7+ we used to go out at 8am and not have to come home until the street lights came on. im 29 now :) i didnt eat all day unless you count the raw potatoes we used to 'cook' in our little fire next to our den. no mobile phones then and no one worried out me lol. i would be so worried about my children now if they played out alone.

i just think different people will have different idea's on risk levels. look at the McCanns, i would have never left my child alone asleep in an apartment but 2 doctors thought it was safe and acceptable and now they will never forgive themselves or Sarah Payne she was in the middle of the country in a nice area with her sibling. you just never know who is watching or planning. Human or animal.
x

[Pipsqueak]

Hi Pip,

I don't normally disagree with you but I am afraid as you can see from my posts I do on this issue. PS.Well done to you for sleeping outside in cold weather - why no tent? Were you waiting for the next sale to start???:laughing: (Have a good Xmas:thumbsup: )

Thats cool Daftbat and, differences make the world go round! and OMG :eek: we have disagreed on something!!!! Thats a rareity! lol

I have done various outward bound adventure type stuff - that was with no tent - we had to build our own shelters - god I hated that stuff.
Also over the years my hubs has 'treated'me to dirty weekends - that is in a tent with an airbed in wet cold muddy fields for various quad meets throughout the year. now we do it in way more style - a caravan - which sometimes you might as well be sleeping outside lol

Merry xmas to you to :)

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I have given up reading everything after page 4 but there is a good debate going on.

I would like to point out that there are opinions for both sides and that most of the no's are childminders/parents either registered this year or in pre-reg. It is easy to say "my children fall asleep and are left in the porch", that is fine when there is one child.

I have been childminding since 1993 and have seen a lot of changes. Safeguarding Children is paramount at the moment and we are all graded and monitored on this severely. My children sleep outside, My garden is secure, the gate is locked and if anyone wanted to break in I would hear them

Don't discount the idea of fresh air for children as it is good for them - look at the research.

As to smoking - it is my understanding that there couldn't be smoking in a home if you were a childminder. This means that if your hubby won't stop then you shouldn't register, harsh but it is the law sorry.

[Trpta108]

I have given up reading everything after page 4 but there is a good debate going on.

I would like to point out that there are opinions for both sides and that most of the no's are childminders/parents either registered this year or in pre-reg. It is easy to say "my children fall asleep and are left in the porch", that is fine when there is one child.

I have been childminding since 1993 and have seen a lot of changes. Safeguarding Children is paramount at the moment and we are all graded and monitored on this severely. My children sleep outside, My garden is secure, the gate is locked and if anyone wanted to break in I would hear them

Don't discount the idea of fresh air for children as it is good for them - look at the research.

As to smoking - it is my understanding that there couldn't be smoking in a home if you were a childminder. This means that if your hubby won't stop then you shouldn't register, harsh but it is the law sorry.

I spoke with Ofsted this morning and they confirmed that 'what you do in your own house when the children are not around is your choice'. I explained that he would only smoke when no mindees are around, only in the bathroom and ventilate well after. She said that was absolutely fine.
I know this is still not ideal and that it might put some parents off, but I am allowed to childmind. Just as well, she also told me that my certificate is in the post:) !

[Winnie]

I have put children outdoors to sleep in the pram or a big pushchair! :eek: :eek:

We are a very outdoors/nature-orientated setting and I discuss at length with parents at interview how much time we spend outdoors and ask if they are happy with that - if they were not I would recommend another childminder who stayed in more. Any child in my care who has been put outside for a nap has previously been given permission by parents and I have never ever been refused permission.

Outside of my playroom is a patio with totally glass patio doors all along the wall. I can see the child(ren) all the time, when awake they can see me so do not get distressed at being put away from us.

We live in the country, have lovely fresh air and birds singing all year and the children are well wrapped and they do not get cold. My garden is secure, our chaffinches and blue-tits do not tend to be of the Alfred Hitchcock variety and so far here the foxes have not mauled anybody, possibly they're far too busy trying to work out how to get into the chicken runs...
.

:thumbsup:
great to hear about your setting :)