Use of calpol - would you?

[melfish]

Hi there
Would you use calpol if a child was crying uncontrollably? a cm I know said she had to 'clamp (the child's) head between my knees to get it in'. I was horrified, thought you didn't give a child calpol unless they were ill. How do you feel about this everyone?

PS she has done this before once when said child wouldn't sleep and was crying, and I was horrified then too.

On another note, the child was then ok enough to eat brek but then threw up and was sent home. i think she threw up cos of being upset and force fed calpol as she was fine for the rest of the 48hrs she had to be kept out of the cms house.

[clio0602]

If I knew the child was crying as they were ill and I had permission I would 'try' to give them Calpol. I would never clamp their head between my knees and force feed them :eek: Although I have had to hold down my own child to get him to take medicine but thats different!

If I was unable to get the child to take it I would call parents to either give Calpol and return to work or take child home. Paracetamol should never be given without permssion as overdosing can damage the liver :mad:

[ajs]

I THINK THIS IS TWO SEPERATE ISSUES

THE DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR OF A CHILDMINDER CLAMPING A CHILD'S HEAD BETWEEN HER KNEES IS ABUSE AND NEEDS TO BE REPORTED IMMEDIATELY

GIVING THE CALPOL IS ANOTHER ISSUE ENTIRELY, YES I WOULD GIVE CALPOL IF I THOUGHT A CHILD NEEDED AND I WOULD CALL THE PARENTS TO CONFIRM THEY HADN'T GIVEN ANY PREVIOUSLY AND TO GET PERMISSION TOO

SORRY FOR CAPS LOCK I HIT IT ACCIDENTLY

[~Grasshopper~]

hi.

As a mum who really struggelled to get her child to take calpol and had a few occassions where by we had to hold him down and force it in. one in hosp as his temp was so high, i can understand it if they NEED the calpol. but as a childminder i wouldnt force it on a child.

I have given it to my 9mth old son when i just couldnt understand why he was so grisly upset, screaming but obviously was something up.

as a mum i would be keeping my child home if they are ill enough to need calpol.

xxxx

[caz3007]

Thats atrocious if she is doing that to a child.

As to the other issue I do adminster Calpol but its usually bought by the parent if a child is a little under weather and the parent tells me last dose, but if I decided to administer my own, I would also contact parent to make sure of last dose

[mrsoliver]

Have you considered phoning the registerig authority and your local Safeguarding team? I suggest you should report this behaviour.

[gegele]

if it was a teething baby or a little one who has been off for a while i would text parent and ask permission to give calpol.

i wouldn't force it down, i would try with seringe and no luck i'd tried in a petit filou :blush:
if no luck i would ensure i met all baby's need (ie fed, changed, warm, confy...) i would put lo to bed with music on. If tired he would end up sleeping if upset would calm himself down. sometime they just need time to calm down on their own.

[Polly2]

In my permissions I have signed permission to administer calpol only after texting/ringing parent to check last dose, whether they agree the child needs it etc.

As for clamping head :eek: no way is that ok. If child won't take calpol and is really ill/in pain lo should be sent home imo.

[miffy]

Hi there
Would you use calpol if a child was crying uncontrollably? a cm I know said she had to 'clamp (the child's) head between my knees to get it in'. I was horrified, thought you didn't give a child calpol unless they were ill. How do you feel about this everyone?

PS she has done this before once when said child wouldn't sleep and was crying, and I was horrified then too.

On another note, the child was then ok enough to eat brek but then threw up and was sent home. i think she threw up cos of being upset and force fed calpol as she was fine for the rest of the 48hrs she had to be kept out of the cms house.

You are only supposed to give medication with the parent's permission and where there is a clear medical reason to do so - I don't think this would cover "uncontrollable crying". No wonder the child threw up afterwards if they were treated like that!

Miffy xx

[rickysmiths]

The method of administering is very wrong and should be reported.

It is simple in my house. I have to have written permission to give calpol, texts, phone calls are not sufficient and we are required to have prior written consent, not consent afterwards. I do not have any in my house and my parents know this.

I will only give it if it has been given to me by a parent with the childs name on and they have signed the forms and written down the time of the last dose given. In 16yrs of minding I have very rarely ever been given Calpol, when I have it has been for teething and I have often not needed to use it.

Crying uncontrolably is not a reason to immediately give Calpol and if it were that bad and I have had this with a child, I call the parents. The child in this case was ill and it wouldn't have helped to have given Calpol. After all we are not Doctors and are not qualified to make a diagnosis.

If a child spikes a temperature to the degree of needing Calpol then I sponge them, take layers of clothing off to cool them and call the parents to collect. I have once had to do this.

[singingcactus]

I wouldn't give paracetamol to a child because they were crying.
I wouldn't physically pin down a child and force analgesic into a child's mouth because they were crying.

If a child in my care was in a lot of pain then I would contact the parent and have them come and collect or administer pain medication themselves.

If I heard of anyone forcing pain medication into my child's mouth, physically and forcefully restraining them first, then my child would never return to that place, but I would report it to the police.

[melfish]

yes I thought as much, not just me then! I posted this in another forum and was expecting a similar response but there was quite a lot of, 'oh well it's not such a big deal'. But I think it IS a big deal.

As a parent I don't like to give calpol unless there's a temperature, but as a CM I wouldn't give it because if they are ill enough to need it then surely they should be at home. Definitely not for crying, and the bit that gets me about this is the throwing up which I think was from the forcing of calpol. The LO in question is my mates child so that's how I know cos she was off work for the 48hrs, but I also speak to the CM at a baby group we go to and that's when she said about the forcing. She has also said other dodgy things such as 'if he was mine I would give him a good slap' about one of her after schoolies. This may be me being a bit anti-hitting though, maybe you think different?

Calling the police though, maybe a bit over the top?

[ajs]

yes I thought as much, not just me then! I posted this in another forum and was expecting a similar response but there was quite a lot of, 'oh well it's not such a big deal'. But I think it IS a big deal.

As a parent I don't like to give calpol unless there's a temperature, but as a CM I wouldn't give it because if they are ill enough to need it then surely they should be at home. Definitely not for crying, and the bit that gets me about this is the throwing up which I think was from the forcing of calpol. The LO in question is my mates child so that's how I know cos she was off work for the 48hrs, but I also speak to the CM at a baby group we go to and that's when she said about the forcing. She has also said other dodgy things such as 'if he was mine I would give him a good slap' about one of her after schoolies. This may be me being a bit anti-hitting though, maybe you think different?

Calling the police though, maybe a bit over the top?

it's abuse plain and simple i would certainly report her to ofsted and maybe even social services she must not be allowed to get away with treating children like this

[clio0602]

yes I thought as much, not just me then! I posted this in another forum and was expecting a similar response but there was quite a lot of, 'oh well it's not such a big deal'. But I think it IS a big deal.

As a parent I don't like to give calpol unless there's a temperature, but as a CM I wouldn't give it because if they are ill enough to need it then surely they should be at home. Definitely not for crying, and the bit that gets me about this is the throwing up which I think was from the forcing of calpol. The LO in question is my mates child so that's how I know cos she was off work for the 48hrs, but I also speak to the CM at a baby group we go to and that's when she said about the forcing. She has also said other dodgy things such as 'if he was mine I would give him a good slap' about one of her after schoolies. This may be me being a bit anti-hitting though, maybe you think different?

Calling the police though, maybe a bit over the top?

If it was my mates child I would have told her immediately and reported it. Thats not on at all :angry:

[melfish]

If it was my mates child I would have told her immediately and reported it. Thats not on at all

Yes well I have a conflict of interests cos I am my mates CM too - there is a 3 day / 2 day split

We had a conversation not that long ago when I expressed doubts about other cm and said we would love to have LO full time but she said, because other cm is 'outstanding' in ofsted terms then LO must be getting something out of it despite my concerns and the fact that we live practically next door n other cm is 2 miles away....

[clio0602]

Yes well I have a conflict of interests cos I am my mates CM too - there is a 3 day / 2 day split

We had a conversation not that long ago when I expressed doubts about other cm and said we would love to have LO full time but she said, because other cm is 'outstanding' in ofsted terms then LO must be getting something out of it despite my concerns and the fact that we live practically next door n other cm is 2 miles away....

Yes it is difficult but maybe report it.... not that you could prove anything I suppose. Just makes me cross :( poor kids are helpless and can't tell anyone whats going on x

[kindredspirits]

so you're not going to tell your mate because you're worried she'll think you just want the business?? I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but you need to tell your friend what was said about forcing her child to have calpol and then explain that you totally understand if she thinks you're touting for business but you'd rather she knows exactly what is going on with her child and loose her friendship and business than sit back because it doesn't look good on your behalf.
I'd also call ofsted and your local safeguarding team. Force feeding a child ANYTHING is wrong - unless its essential, life-saving medicine - even then I wouldn't clamp their head between my knees, thats barbaric. :angry:

[melfish]

Yes it is awful, but I think the mum knows she had trouble getting her to have it - she had to sign for it when she picked her up after all, and the other cm was v relaxed about letting everyone know about it. I did say to my mate that she probly threw up cos she was upset rather than from being ill and she seemed to think this was possible as lo clearly wasn't ill. She does think the other cm is wonderful tho cos of the ofsted rating, and has taken her advice rather than mine on several issues. I may be letting jealousy cloud my judgement a bit in some respects but the calpol thing is well out of order.

[singingcactus]

Calling the police though, maybe a bit over the top?

I said I'd be contacting the police if it was my child who had been pinned down and forced to take paracetamol. And I don't think it is over the top. Nurses and doctors are not allowed to force patients to accept medication unless they have a court order, so how can it be okay for a medically unqualified woman to do this to a little kid?
If I knew it had happened to anyone elses child then I would inform that childs parents. If it happened to my friends child, then I would immediately be telling her.

[Allie]

Just because the CM is relaxed about it doesn't make it right, it underlines her lack of correct practice, clearly she hasn't a clue this isn't on:(

Even if you don't report it please tell your friend

Allie

[Mollymop]

:) I agree with what has been said. I really think the best interests of the child should be thought about and that you should inform ofsted and the parent, Melfish.
If I were the parent I would like to think that my friend/childminder (you) was looking out for me and my child by not letting this awful childminder carry on treating my child in the way she has or will continue to do in the future. She must think that her behaviour is ok, or why would she be telling other minders such as yourself? Someone needs to speak to her about it before she does the child more harm. It might not look like she has harmed the child but she child will have been upset psychologically surely by having an adult clamp her little head in her knees and force her to down calpol

You care very much for this child? You are a parent yourself?......... You need to report this matter asap:)

[Ripeberry]

If that CM thinks its OK to talk about that kind of thing, what else is she doing behind closed doors? :mad:
There is no need for forcing anything. One of my 11 month old mindees had to take a course of antibiotics last week (luminous yellow muck) and the only way to give it to her was with a quick squirt at the back of the throat with a large bore syringe.
She never even cried at this, just wondered what happened :cool:

That CM needs to be reported and the mum needs to see sense!

[melfish]

See I think my mate knows she had to force her to have it but the way it was presented made her think it was ok.... as in, this woman is supposed to be very experienced and a professional childminder whereas my mate is a first time mum and as such easily intimidated into thinking she doesn't know best.

However, got a text yesterday saying she was thinking of taking her out and if so could we maybe have her full time. So not definite but obviously she isn't happy with the care.

I saw other cm at baby group yesterday and the baby was apparently 'ill' (wonder if she's been given any more of that calpol). To me she just looked miserable. Other cm told me to brace myself cos lo was really out of sorts and constantly crying...so we shall see whether she's happier with me tomorrow. Poor mite it's very worrying.
Also feel for the cm though in a way cos I'm sure she thinks she is doing her best even though its really wrong - and she's no idea my mate is thinking of giving notice.

[melfish]

I will be seeing mum tomorrow so will discuss what has been raised here by the way - will say I have thought about it and think the forcing of calpol is well out of order and I think lo is not happy at other cms and thats why she is always crying etc.
She will have to see out notice though which is 6 weeks - seems a long time when it's not right.

[miffy]

Also feel for the cm though in a way cos I'm sure she thinks she is doing her best even though its really wrong - and she's no idea my mate is thinking of giving notice.

I can't see how anyone who holds a child down and forces calpol down their throat could possibly think that they are doing their best! :(

I can see this situation turning very ugly especially if your friend gives notice - watch your own back

Miffy xx

[melfish]

Yes I was thinking I might not be able to go to that group anymore - my own lo loves it as well....

[miffy]

Yes I was thinking I might not be able to go to that group anymore - my own lo loves it as well....

You have done nothing wrong though so why should you have to stop going to the group............................ if you do it might look as though you've something to hide.

You really need mum and this other cm to sort things out before you get involved. If mum isn't happy with the care at the other cm's she should be honest and tell her why.

Perhaps you could take a step back from it all until they've sorted it out.

Miffy xx

[melfish]

Thanks miffy. Good advice x