Following on from the thread about digital photos and paying a yearly fee...

[Tinglesnark]

I have decided that since i could barely scrape together this years Ofsted fees and still havent managed to pay for this years NCMA membership, there is no way that i am going to stress out over finding money for the fees to take and store digital photos!
My digital camera is broken anyway so have been looking to replace it. I have decided to get a polaroid camera instead and wondered if it would be alright? Does anyone know where to get them from at a decent price? (maybe graham could get hold of some to sell in the forum shop for those of us that refuse to pay the yearly subscription for digipics?)

just a thought

:thumbsup:

[rickysmiths]

I have decided that since i could barely scrape together this years Ofsted fees and still havent managed to pay for this years NCMA membership, there is no way that i am going to stress out over finding money for the fees to take and store digital photos!
My digital camera is broken anyway so have been looking to replace it. I have decided to get a polaroid camera instead and wondered if it would be alright? Does anyone know where to get them from at a decent price? (maybe graham could get hold of some to sell in the forum shop for those of us that refuse to pay the yearly subscription for digipics?)

just a thought

:thumbsup:


Do you have any info regarding your mindees on your computer? Letters about holidays, invoices, do you do your accounts on your computer? If you do you I'm afraid will still have to register with the ICO. Its not just about Digital Photos.

[sarah707]

A friend of mine looked at doing it this way but she worked out that by the time she had paid for the camera, processing, films and rubbish photos she then had to throw away it would be cheaper for her to replace her digital.

The other problem is she was told that if she even used her computer to write letters or newsletters or anything related to work that involved a parents' name or child's details then she had to pay the registration fee anyway... the ICO told her this.

So reluctantly she paid it. She was inspected about a month later and it was something the inspector asked her if she had in place.

Hth :D

[Tinglesnark]

oh dear....

that kinda scuppers that

[The Juggler]

hon, i'm afraid I agree with Sarah. It's not worth the risk of not being covered. Even if you keep only paper copies of everything you need to adhere to DP rules so it's worth paying it to ensure you're safe.

[Tinglesnark]

yeah i see your point folks....it is pretty much an essential isnt it?

pfft....

[angeldelight]

yeah i see your point folks....it is pretty much an essential isnt it?

pfft....

and expense that you could well do with out ?

Angel xx

[manjay]

I believe from my research it is just one of those things that has to be done. I am in no doubt that with the records I keep and the photos I take that it is absolutely necessary for me to register. Yes I could do without paying but then I could also do without paying for my car tax or my tv licence fee. But I do cos it's the law:D

Personally I couldn't work without using a digital camera. It is on my person all day and I would hate to think of the expense of printing all the photos I take just to get the perfect one for a child's dairy!

[kindredspirits]

I think polaroids are about £1 a photo (or they were when I had one) so really not worth the expense IMO.

[Graham]

I have decided to get a polaroid camera instead and wondered if it would be alright? Does anyone know where to get them from at a decent price? (maybe graham could get hold of some to sell in the forum shop for those of us that refuse to pay the yearly subscription for digipics?)

just a thought

:thumbsup:

I have added a Pogo Camera Two to the forum shop it is a camera with an integrated printer if that is any good.

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/childminding-21/detail/B002PMDBZ2

I will have a look for some more polaroids too.
__________________

[Graham]

Here is a true instant polaroid camera which doesn't store pictures.

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/childminding-21/detail/B003B2ITI4

[singingcactus]

Polaroids are very expensive, the films are in the region of £20. I will say though, don't be pressured into registering with the ICO if you do not store data electronically, it is perfectly possible to run this business without placing children's names, or images or details on electronic devices. And it is cheaper to use wet film than register if you are not planning on taking 100's of photo's which you will never use. The photographs taken are to provide evidence, not to go into a modelling portfolio, and there is no reason why anyone would consistently take useless snaps - even those of you without a photographic qualification should be able to point a camera at a child performing some accomplishment and get a picture of said child performing said task. :D (although I have seen some of my mums pics :eek: headless kids galore)
However, if you prefer to take many pics, and chose a couple of perfect ones to print out then it will be cheaper in the long run to register with the ico, or if you write the children's names in newsletters or store their details on your computer etc.
I am still unsure how the £35 a year ensures that the children's information is safe though? Could someone please enlighten me - is it so that the ICO can monitor your internet usage, or do they provide you with training or resources to help with security?

[SYLVIA]

Im so fed up with this that i emailed ofsted saying that as it an ofsted requirement that I keep these records, maybe they should pay some if not all of the fee for us. Needless to say they have not had the decency to reply!

[Mollymop]

I have to pay for this soon and I am not happy about it but I think it must be done just for my own peace of mind, when it's sone it's done. But it is still daft! raaaahhhh! :mad: :)

[Tinglesnark]

:panic: i hate all this paying out when im not bringing anything in! ive been reg over a year and still no steady work - i have to keep asking dp to pay for things and although he is happy to it really gets to me! grrr!

sorry!

thanks for the replies - you are all right - better to be safe than sorry eh?

[Tily Bud]

Ive not registered for this and wondered how you do so x

[crazyhazy]

Can anyone tell me if this applies in scotland? I've never heard it mentioned by the cc or other local childminders here and am wondering if it is needed how exactly am I meant to know lol

[Chimps Childminding]

I have registered - reluctantly :angry: But what I'm not sure about is how does it protect us????? If someone pinches my laptop for instance (which has photos on but nothing to identify the children), how does me being registered with the ICO help :rolleyes:

[SandCastles]

I'm not registered, can some tell me more about doing so, and what I get for my money.

[Pipsqueak]

I am still unsure how the £35 a year ensures that the children's information is safe though? Could someone please enlighten me - is it so that the ICO can monitor your internet usage, or do they provide you with training or resources to help with security?

I have been wondering this myself.

[ajs]

i asked recently at a network meeting about registering with the ico and she told me that she would look into it and as far as she knew it was not a legal requirement yet then she called me the next day and told me that unless you store identifiable data on your pc as far as she is concerend it is not a requirement yet.

they really didn't know much about it though.

as for the question what does joining do to keep us safe, nothing, but if your laptop goes missing with identifiable data on it and we're not members we are breaking the law and could be prosecuted.
although childminders know nothing about the ico unless they are members on here so we could deny all knowledge

aren't the ncma looking to get the ico to reduce the cost for us. yet another reason to stick with ncma i suppose

[christine e]

i asked recently at a network meeting about registering with the ico and she told me that she would look into it and as far as she knew it was not a legal requirement yet then she called me the next day and told me that unless you store identifiable data on your pc as far as she is concerend it is not a requirement yet.

they really didn't know much about it though.

as for the question what does joining do to keep us safe, nothing, but if your laptop goes missing with identifiable data on it and we're not members we are breaking the law and could be prosecuted.
although childminders know nothing about the ico unless they are members on here so we could deny all knowledge

aren't the ncma looking to get the ico to reduce the cost for us. yet another reason to stick with ncma i suppose

Hi Mandy

I seconded a resolution at the 2009 NCMA conference that NCMA campaign for a reduced rate for childminders. I did check up on how things were going a few weeks ago and was told that in the economic climate it is proving difficult to get a government dept to reduce fees! Will get in touch again to see if there have been any developements.

Cx

[ajs]

Hi Mandy

I seconded a resolution at the 2009 NCMA conference that NCMA campaign for a reduced rate for childminders. I did check up on how things were going a few weeks ago and was told that in the economic climate it is proving difficult to get a government dept to reduce fees! Will get in touch again to see if there have been any developements.

Cx

thanks for that Christine, i think it was your network lady ( although can't remember her name now) who was looking into it for me.
they did seem very surprised that i knew about the ico though, It hasn't been made public in Nottinghamshire that we need to register, at least I don't think it has and I have been to all of the local meetings that it should have been mentioned at

[The Juggler]

thanks for that Christine, i think it was your network lady ( although can't remember her name now) who was looking into it for me.
they did seem very surprised that i knew about the ico though, It hasn't been made public in Nottinghamshire that we need to register, at least I don't think it has and I have been to all of the local meetings that it should have been mentioned at

thing is I think we get quite a low rate already, other orgs have to pay much more but because we are small business it's only £35:( Not sure we'll get much more off.

[manjay]

thing is I think we get quite a low rate already, other orgs have to pay much more but because we are small business it's only £35:( Not sure we'll get much more off.

I agree we get a massively reduced rate. The next level of payment is hundreds.

The ICO are an independent body who ensure that the Data Protecetion Act and The Freedom of Information (amongst others) are being followed. When you register you are agreeing that you will keep your data as safe as possible. If you lose data and you haven't done everything in your power to keep it safe you could be prosecuted. If a family ask to see all the info you hold on them you have to provide it. Bit like going to the doctors and asking to see all your records.

It is a legal requirement for anyone who holds certain data. My husband as a self employed person has to register and it's the same for us.

I think the onus has to be on us to investigate whether you need to register. All you need to do is call the ICO.

[The Juggler]

I have registered - reluctantly :angry: But what I'm not sure about is how does it protect us????? If someone pinches my laptop for instance (which has photos on but nothing to identify the children), how does me being registered with the ICO help :rolleyes:

it doesn't unfortunately. Basically you have to register with them (at a cost:angry: ) to say you are the data controller for that information which you hold. Basically by becoming a data controller you commit to keep that data safe withiin the best of your ability.

If something happens i.e. your lap top is stolen, you would be fully responsible:( Basically by registering you become the official 'keeper' of information you hold under the terms of teh Data Protection Act.:(

[Chimps Childminding]

it doesn't unfortunately. Basically you have to register with them (at a cost:angry: ) to say you are the data controller for that information which you hold. Basically by becoming a data controller you commit to keep that data safe withiin the best of your ability.

If something happens i.e. your lap top is stolen, you would be fully responsible:( Basically by registering you become the official 'keeper' of information you hold under the terms of teh Data Protection Act.:(

More money for nothing again then :angry: I am seriously going to have to look into things in the new year!! It is so quiet at the moment and if we keep having to pay out more and more if it gets any quieter it won't be worth doing :(

[The Juggler]

More money for nothing again then :angry: I am seriously going to have to look into things in the new year!! It is so quiet at the moment and if we keep having to pay out more and more if it gets any quieter it won't be worth doing :(

i see your point hon, it's a tough one but for £30 I would rather be safe than sorry. Thing is if there was an issue under DP Protection Act i.e. breach of confidentiality, then you could be fined for not having registered as well as having not kept data safe. It's unlikely that a parent would complain to ICO though because I'm not sure how many would understand the implications and links. They'd be more likely to just complain to ofsted who might then follow it through with the ICO.

[Chimps Childminding]

i see your point hon, it's a tough one but for £30 I would rather be safe than sorry. Thing is if there was an issue under DP Protection Act i.e. breach of confidentiality, then you could be fined for not having registered as well as having not kept data safe. It's unlikely that a parent would complain to ICO though because I'm not sure how many would understand the implications and links. They'd be more likely to just complain to ofsted who might then follow it through with the ICO.

Yeh I know it makes sense, just hate spending my hard earned money :D

[barbarella68]

It won't help it's just an excuse to con more money out of us.:angry:

[christine e]

thanks for that Christine, i think it was your network lady ( although can't remember her name now) who was looking into it for me.
they did seem very surprised that i knew about the ico though, It hasn't been made public in Nottinghamshire that we need to register, at least I don't think it has and I have been to all of the local meetings that it should have been mentioned at

I'll have a word with her too.

Cx

[julie w]

It is not a legal requirement. Although it is good to be protected, it is not breaking any laws not to pay for the data protection. (yet!!)

[keeks]

I am still unsure how the £35 a year ensures that the children's information is safe though? Could someone please enlighten me - is it so that the ICO can monitor your internet usage, or do they provide you with training or resources to help with security?

I have been wondering the same thing. Will look into this, there must be something more to it than paying and being registered.

I asked about this a couple of weeks ago on my ICP course, but the teacher (who was a very knowledgeable, experienced lady) had never heard of it. She said she didn't think we had to register. I said I was pretty sure we did, but she wasn't convinced.

Oh well...

[christine e]

This is the link to NCMA's website and information about who needs to register

http://www.*************/childminders/your_business/policies_and_procedures/data_protection.aspx

[mushpea]

i know i am being thick but never heard of the ICO and am on the network yet my network ncma lady has not informed me of this and I keep photos on a memory card for the digital photo frame but do not store them on the computer and also I print them of with a pogo and put them on paper work folders and again when i type up a letter it dosent get stored just printed out so would i need to register,,,, I cant belive that if the ncma has heard of this they havent bothered to inform me or even mention it so i can research it!

[georgie456]

I've never heard of this until this thread and at my recent inspection I wasn't asked at all if I kept records on my computer. (By the way I don't - all records are paper. The only thing I have on my computer is photos which are deleted as soon as I have printed them off.)
My network co-ordinator has never heard of it either so I'm not too worried that I'm not registered at this point to be honest. I think if it was an absolute requirement we would know about it.

[rickysmiths]

I've never heard of this until this thread and at my recent inspection I wasn't asked at all if I kept records on my computer. (By the way I don't - all records are paper. The only thing I have on my computer is photos which are deleted as soon as I have printed them off.)
My network co-ordinator has never heard of it either so I'm not too worried that I'm not registered at this point to be honest. I think if it was an absolute requirement we would know about it.

If you put photos on your computer even if you delete them, I must say I don't understand why people do I have phots of all the mindees I have ever cared for over the years as my personal memory. Anyhow you do have to register, it is a legal requirement. If you choose not to, nothing will happen until until something goes wrong or your next inspector asks. The fines for non-compliance are pretty scary up to £2000. If you are thinking it will never happen to me, there are at present 2 childminers in my county who have been pulled up for not being registered and are currently trying to fight not to be fined.

Unfortunately as cms there is a lot of info we have to find out for ourselves. Thank goodness for this Forum and you have now found out about the Information Commissioners Office by reading this thread and posting on it.

I am shocked that a Network Co-ordinator hasn't heard, of it but they don't know everything. Now you can pass the information onto her. I'm afaraid that if photos go on your computer/you use a digital camera of mobile phone to take the pictures you have to register.

Remember, in legal terms, ignorance is no plee. If you visit the NCMA website it will tell you all about it on there.

[rickysmiths]

i know i am being thick but never heard of the ICO and am on the network yet my network ncma lady has not informed me of this and I keep photos on a memory card for the digital photo frame but do not store them on the computer and also I print them of with a pogo and put them on paper work folders and again when i type up a letter it dosent get stored just printed out so would i need to register,,,, I cant belive that if the ncma has heard of this they havent bothered to inform me or even mention it so i can research it!


They have informed you in Who Minds magazine and there is information on their website. The poster before you has given a link.

[christine e]

If you put photos on your computer even if you delete them, I must say I don't understand why people do I have phots of all the mindees I have ever cared for over the years as my personal memory. Anyhow you do have to register, it is a legal requirement. If you choose not to, nothing will happen until until something goes wrong or your next inspector asks. The fines for non-compliance are pretty scary up to £2000. If you are thinking it will never happen to me, there are at present 2 childminers in my county who have been pulled up for not being registered and are currently trying to fight not to be fined.

Unfortunately as cms there is a lot of info we have to find out for ourselves. Thank goodness for this Forum and you have now found out about the Information Commissioners Office by reading this thread and posting on it.

I am shocked that a Network Co-ordinator hasn't heard, of it but they don't know everything. Now you can pass the information onto her. I'm afaraid that if photos go on your computer/you use a digital camera of mobile phone to take the pictures you have to register.

Remember, in legal terms, ignorance is no plee. If you visit the NCMA website it will tell you all about it on there.

http://www.*************/childminders/your_business/policies_and_procedures/data_protection.aspx

[rickysmiths]

I have been wondering the same thing. Will look into this, there must be something more to it than paying and being registered.

I asked about this a couple of weeks ago on my ICP course, but the teacher (who was a very knowledgeable, experienced lady) had never heard of it. She said she didn't think we had to register. I said I was pretty sure we did, but she wasn't convinced.

Oh well...


I think that it is the same as when we are Quoted by companies such as Insurance, that we undertake not to pass sensitive, stored information on to a third party without the permission of the parents is one aspect. The other is I believe, that if our camera, computer, external hard drive, memory sticks etc were stollen or hacked and the information that was stollen or used inappropriately we would be protected from prosocution because we had taken every step to protect the data.

[georgie456]

If you put photos on your computer even if you delete them, I must say I don't understand why people do I have phots of all the mindees I have ever cared for over the years as my personal memory. Anyhow you do have to register, it is a legal requirement. If you choose not to, nothing will happen until until something goes wrong or your next inspector asks. The fines for non-compliance are pretty scary up to £2000. If you are thinking it will never happen to me, there are at present 2 childminers in my county who have been pulled up for not being registered and are currently trying to fight not to be fined.

Unfortunately as cms there is a lot of info we have to find out for ourselves. Thank goodness for this Forum and you have now found out about the Information Commissioners Office by reading this thread and posting on it.

I am shocked that a Network Co-ordinator hasn't heard, of it but they don't know everything. Now you can pass the information onto her. I'm afaraid that if photos go on your computer/you use a digital camera of mobile phone to take the pictures you have to register.

Remember, in legal terms, ignorance is no plee. If you visit the NCMA website it will tell you all about it on there.

thanks for the info

[ajs]

although i have scanned the ico website to find where you register and can't find any where which has the registration form
have those who registered done it online or called them direct

[PixiePetal]

although i have scanned the ico website to find where you register and can't find any where which has the registration form
have those who registered done it online or called them direct

I called direct to get the form sent, then had to call for help in filling out the form as it confused me! :rolleyes:

[rickysmiths]

I called direct to get the form sent, then had to call for help in filling out the form as it confused me! :rolleyes:

I di the same.

[snufflepuff]

If I didn't use this forum I would know nothing about all this. How do those who do not use this forum know that they need to register?
Surely if something is a requirement we need to be told about it?

[christine e]

If I didn't use this forum I would know nothing about all this. How do those who do not use this forum know that they need to register?
Surely if something is a requirement we need to be told about it?

But we have been told about it, NCMA have told us about it (it's on their website and it's been in Who Minds) if you are a member you can access MY NCMA and have a look a factsheet no 6 or have a look at this:
http://www.*************/childminders/your_business/policies_and_procedures/data_protection.aspx

[georgie456]

But we have been told about it, NCMA have told us about it (it's on their website and it's been in Who Minds) if you are a member you can access MY NCMA and have a look a factsheet no 6 or have a look at this:
http://www.*************/childminders/your_business/policies_and_procedures/data_protection.aspx

Not everyone is a NCMA member.......I had NO idea about this until I read this thread. I never look at their site - I come here! :)

[manjay]

Not everyone is a NCMA member.......I had NO idea about this until I read this thread. I never look at their site - I come here! :)

Just curious but who do you think should let you know if you are not a member of NCMA? I know my inspector wasn't interested if I was complying with Data Protection law. She had enough of her own laws to check I was compliant with.

[appleblossom]

Just curious but who do you think should let you know if you are not a member of NCMA? I know my inspector wasn't interested if I was complying with Data Protection law. She had enough of her own laws to check I was compliant with.

Surely the Childminding Development Team in all boroughs know about it? Ours sends out a newsletter every couple of months and the info was in the September issue. They then followed it up with an email reminder earlier this month. I'm not an NCMA member either so I wouldn't have known about it if I had not heard about it from the CDT. I do get the Morton Michel newsletter but I don't recall it being mentioned by them.

For those who want to know how to do it, here is the link to the form on the ICO website. Just print it out and send it off with a cheque.

https://www.ico.gov.uk/onlinenotification/?page=7.html

[georgie456]

Just curious but who do you think should let you know if you are not a member of NCMA? I know my inspector wasn't interested if I was complying with Data Protection law. She had enough of her own laws to check I was compliant with.

I agree - my inspector never mentioned data protection. She actually didn't ask me if I kept any information on the computer at all.

[DIPPY DOUGHNUT]

I just phoned the helpline and she explained tome thatif you take digital pictures of children then you have to be registered and she then said i can either register online or she can send me the forms. I asked her to send them to me as im not that great at the internet lol

She was really helpful.

[Chimps Childminding]

I just phoned the helpline and she explained tome thatif you take digital pictures of children then you have to be registered and she then said i can either register online or she can send me the forms. I asked her to send them to me as im not that great at the internet lol

She was really helpful.

Even if you fill them in on line you have to print them out, sign them and send them back with a cheque to cover the cost, so its easier to get them to send you the forms and save your ink!!!