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maisiemog
13-10-2010, 07:27 PM
Doing health and safety unit on my NVQ at the mo and now I am just wondering whether we need to have COSHH sheets for all the products that we use at home. Obviously kiddies dont have actual contact with them but I'm guessing they have some sort of exposure to them, i.e breathing in the air freshner I have plugged in etc.

They aren't hard to get hold of, just writing to the company and asking for one. Is it worth getting em to cover myself or not???

aly
13-10-2010, 07:41 PM
no, where will it end really?...we will need permission forms and god knows what to breathe in the same room soon lol.

I'm doing that unit now too lol.

sarah707
13-10-2010, 08:05 PM
I have COSHH sheets in my Haccp file.

I know a lot more about the damage things do to the environment as a result and I have changed some of the things I buy :D

maisiemog
13-10-2010, 08:27 PM
I have COSHH sheets in my Haccp file.

I know a lot more about the damage things do to the environment as a result and I have changed some of the things I buy :D

Is there any paperwork that you dont have Sarah? How do you find the time for it all????

Know what you mean about the chemicals though. I used to be in charge of coshh at my last job and I switched to a lot of the greener products after reading the sheets!

Think I will write to the companies for the sheets....another excuse for avioding my coursework! lol

Winnie
13-10-2010, 08:33 PM
I have COSHH sheets too, you can get them off the internet, the only one i couldnt get was Cillit Bang-so i dont buy that now.

jumpinjen
13-10-2010, 08:37 PM
I thought you had to wriet them all yourself.... thanks Winnie for showing me the internet light!!!

jenx

gegele
13-10-2010, 10:12 PM
i wrote in a nice table for the really toxic ones and i ordered on line for the others

the ones they send you are really detailed and for the realy bad one i wanted to be easy read ....and i wasn't working nd was pregnant with really short night to fill ah aha ha ha h


now i do buy mainly eco friendly stuff as they usually harmless lol

and I try to avoid those with big orange pictures!!!:D :thumbsup:

rickysmiths
13-10-2010, 11:12 PM
I have a Cossh File but I do use a lot of eco riendly products. I believe the emergency services wouldn't actually be interested in the file they would just ask what product and would want to see the container.

However the exercise of compiling the file has made me think about what I use and where. I have never used air freshners except if a child has been sick. I must say I don't like the idea of the plug in ones, I prefer to open a window for fresh air.

WibbleWobble
14-10-2010, 06:53 AM
i used to do all the COSHH stuff when i was in the NHS and i remember we could write to the company of the "hazardous stuff" and they would send us a copy of their COSHH document. Made it so much easier - but i wont be bothering at home. I have no aerosols and all my cleaning stuff is environmentally sound and suitable for a brittle old asthmatic (me)

wheezing away

mandy xxx

nokidshere
14-10-2010, 10:08 PM
There is no such thing as a COSHH sheet. What you are referring to is a manufacturers safety data sheet which is used as a source of information when undertaking risk assessments of hazardous substances covered by COSHH regulations.

Unless you have employees there is no reason to do a COSHH assessment for household cleaners - read the label it tells you everything you need to know!!

WibbleWobble
15-10-2010, 09:05 AM
There is no such thing as a COSHH sheet. What you are referring to is a manufacturers safety data sheet which is used as a source of information when undertaking risk assessments of hazardous substances covered by COSHH regulations.

Unless you have employees there is no reason to do a COSHH assessment for household cleaners - read the label it tells you everything you need to know!!


thats it! good grief my memory is so shocking...its 15 years since i did all that. I live a life of "thingies" and "wotsits"

its my age!!!!

mandy xxx

nokidshere
15-10-2010, 09:39 AM
thats it! good grief my memory is so shocking...its 15 years since i did all that. I live a life of "thingies" and "wotsits"

its my age!!!!

mandy xxx

LO Mandy! We were at a friends house the other night and the 4 of us had a whole conversation based on "whatsit and thingies" - old age setting in!

WibbleWobble
15-10-2010, 09:43 AM
LO Mandy! We were at a friends house the other night and the 4 of us had a whole conversation based on "whatsit and thingies" - old age setting in!


ah but when the doo dahs come into conversation then you know when its time to get out the zimmer frame.

mandy xx

Winnie
15-10-2010, 10:58 AM
Doing health and safety unit on my NVQ at the mo and now I am just wondering whether we need to have COSHH sheets for all the products that we use at home. Obviously kiddies dont have actual contact with them but I'm guessing they have some sort of exposure to them, i.e breathing in the air freshner I have plugged in etc.

They aren't hard to get hold of, just writing to the company and asking for one. Is it worth getting em to cover myself or not???

COSHH data sheets give information on the hazard which you then risk assess. So what in your setting may cause a problem?- if you use hairspray to ‘fix’ a chalk drawing and a child has an asthma attack because they breathed in the mist that is obviously a problem :panic:
COSHH is not just for employers/employees, it is to protect yourself, users and visitors.

wellybelly
15-10-2010, 11:40 AM
You could get product data sheets - they list their ingreedients and safety info. Just google the manufacturer and they should have some to print off.

nokidshere
15-10-2010, 03:11 PM
COSHH data sheets give information on the hazard which you then risk assess. So what in your setting may cause a problem?- if you use hairspray to ‘fix’ a chalk drawing and a child has an asthma attack because they breathed in the mist that is obviously a problem :panic:
COSHH is not just for employers/employees, it is to protect yourself, users and visitors.

Having a manufacturers product data sheet does not make you qualified to do a COSHH assesment. If you are using normal household products then the safety information on the bottle should tell you what you need to know as far as safety is concerned for your "risk assessments".

Better still - just use mild soap and water - easier, cleaner and no nasties!

jumpinjen
15-10-2010, 03:13 PM
COSHH data sheets give information on the hazard which you then risk assess. So what in your setting may cause a problem?- if you use hairspray to ‘fix’ a chalk drawing and a child has an asthma attack because they breathed in the mist that is obviously a problem :panic:
COSHH is not just for employers/employees, it is to protect yourself, users and visitors.

Well said Winnie..... to add to that, if we clean a table with an antibacterial spray then a baby licks the table or puts hands all over and then in mouth then they can ingest some of the spray so it is worth doing them.

No Kids here, what is your background/job??

jenni

Winnie
15-10-2010, 03:46 PM
Nokidshere you seem a little abrasive where I’m concerned :huh:

I’m just doing my job, I have training in risk assessment and paediatric first aid, both tutors said we should have COSHH sheets. The ingredient list on product packaging does not always tell me the whole story. Data sheets tell me the type of hazard and I assess the risk and how to deal with it- avoidance being the most obvious one :rolleyes: but (just using this as an example again) if little Johnny has an asthma attack because he breaths in hairspray mist even though I sprayed it at the other end of the room (see previous post) then I will remove Johnny from harm to a nice airy place, treat/get treatment if necessary and then write this in my COSHH folder and ensure I do not spray it in same room as the children again.

nokidshere
15-10-2010, 05:41 PM
Nokidshere you seem a little abrasive where I’m concerned :huh:

I’m just doing my job, I have training in risk assessment and paediatric first aid, both tutors said we should have COSHH sheets. The ingredient list on product packaging does not always tell me the whole story. Data sheets tell me the type of hazard and I assess the risk and how to deal with it- avoidance being the most obvious one :rolleyes: but (just using this as an example again) if little Johnny has an asthma attack because he breaths in hairspray mist even though I sprayed it at the other end of the room (see previous post) then I will remove Johnny from harm to a nice airy place, treat/get treatment if necessary and then write this in my COSHH folder and ensure I do not spray it in same room as the children again.

Sorry I wasn't meaning to be abrasive - just factual! COSHH regulations apply to industries where chemicals are used for the safety of the staff. They are not necessary in a home situation. I think we, as childminders, do way above the level required and we don't need to be adding extra, un necessary work to our already heavy load!

My background is in childcare. I have been a child carer and a nursery manager in many settings for over 30 years. I have managed large businesses where these things are necessary and am now working at home where they are not.

However, the information I gave regarding COSHH came from my husband after I read him the OP. He is a Senior Health & Safety Manager with nearly 40 years experience.

We do not (unless we employ others) need to have manufacturers data sheets. We do not (unless we employ others) have to carry out any COSHH assessments. We do not even (despite what Ofsted say and unless we employ others) have to have written risk assessments.

These things are fact. Obviousllly if you want to go ahead and do them thats your perogative but when the majority of posters are saying they dont have enough time in the day to do the things we HAVE to do then it seems daft to start doing things that are not required!

gegele
15-10-2010, 05:50 PM
BUT it's good practice and as it was said before it's when i done mine that i realised just how much useless stuff i had under my sink and that i realised how toxic some were and decided to go for eco friendly product more often and less toxic stuff.

CHEEKY BEE
15-10-2010, 06:15 PM
I was told on a First Aid course that we needed COSHH sheets, but I checked this with the Inspector at my last inspection and was told you don't have to but you would get outstanding if you did this sort of extra work.

As gegele said, it would be good practise to have them as they are obviously showing u are assessing risks.

My understanding is that you do need some sort of record of risk assessments as it is a legal requirement of the EYFS.

:)

sarah707
15-10-2010, 06:22 PM
Please can I clarify for those who have sent me pms and are concerned...

Risk assessing outings

There is a specific legal requirement for you to carry out a full risk assessment for each type of outing and review the assessment before embarking on each specific outing.

The Statutory Framework makes it clear that this should include an assessment of the ratios of adults to children needed for each type of outing, taking into account the nature of the outing.


Risk assessing the house / garden

The specific legal requirements are to ensure a safe and secure environment that is checked regularly in order to minimise or remove hazards.

The risk assessment itself does not necessarily need to be in writing, although it is good practice to do so.

Providers must keep a record of the aspects that need checking (that is, the things the risk assessment identifies as potential hazards or risks) and when and by whom they have been checked.

Our interpretation is that this record must be in writing.

Although the Statutory Framework does not explicitly state it should be a written record we do not believe it is possible to meet this requirement without the record being written down.


If you do not have a written risk assessment

Where you do not have a written record of your risk assessment of premises and equipment we will assess the impact of that failure on children’s well-being, particularly on their safety, and take this into account when making inspection judgements.

In all cases, where you fail to have a record of a risk assessment for premises and equipment or the record does not include all of the information in the specific requirement, we will raise an action setting out what you need to do and by when to meet the legal requirements.

We may, in some cases, take other enforcement measures.

These are quotes from Ofsted document 100155 / Requirements for Risk Assessments / dated 2010.

I hope this makes clear the statutory requirements and Ofsted's expectations :D

nokidshere
16-10-2010, 02:31 PM
"Although the Statutory Framework does not explicitly state it should be a written record we do not believe it is possible to meet this requirement without the record being written down".

If the statutory framework states that they do not have to be written down then there is no way that you can be penalised for not writing them down???? I understand perfectly that it is "good practice" and that "they" prefer it - but it is NOT a LEGAL requirement to have them written down. Written risk assessments are only a LEGAL requirement (regulation 3 management of H&S at work regulations 1999) if you have 5 or more employees.

nokidshere
16-10-2010, 02:34 PM
BUT it's good practice and as it was said before it's when i done mine that i realised just how much useless stuff i had under my sink and that i realised how toxic some were and decided to go for eco friendly product more often and less toxic stuff.

I am not questioning the fact that is good practice just the fact that it is a legal one!

nokidshere
16-10-2010, 02:36 PM
sorry - been here before and had the same converstaion many times.

I will shut up now :D

jumpinjen
16-10-2010, 03:45 PM
These things are fact. Obviousllly if you want to go ahead and do them thats your perogative but when the majority of posters are saying they dont have enough time in the day to do the things we HAVE to do then it seems daft to start doing things that are not required!

I think that there are plenty of pieces of paperwork and actions that are not 'required' in law or to run a functional setting but as we improve our practice and our settings, they become things that we do as a next step to develop further. I wouldn't suggest for a minute that they are on a 'to-do' list for a newly registering minder for their first inspection but for more experienced minders who are delving deeper into things as they progress then they may make a sensible next step to read fully about the hazzards inherent in many chemical products. As someone said, it made them think again about the products that they use and change them.

We all have out own bugbears about what we think is ridiculous (mine is the 'to the minute' attendance register..... and that IS law!!!). It has been an interesting discussion though!!

jenni

Penny1959
17-10-2010, 05:00 AM
There is a lot of confussion about this (and lots of other things) and childminders are producing and filling sheets that there is no need for (or more often - not filling in - as have so many forms and not enough time - and then feel bad / quilty as are 'behind' with paperwork)

As a childminder who does not employ anyone - the label on the bottles PLUS safe storage PLUS safe useage is all that you need to do. (and this would be within your risk assessment)

However if you personally wish to take up training / implement previous knowledge (about anything that is not actually a requirement) that is YOUR choice and YOUR professional development - it does not mean everyone else has to follow like sheep - we all have things that we are interested in / passionate about and therefore do 'extra' - and if we all did all the 'extras' just because someone else does we would all end up shattered and totally fed up of paperwork.

Please do continue to say what you do - as others MAY wish to do similiar and it is good to share (idea behind this forum I thought) but please do not give the impression that others are required to do the same when they are clearly not.

Sorry for rant (especially as I am new on here) but it seems to me that 'panic' about not doing the right thing is a major cause of stress on this forum.

And if wondering if I know what I am talking about (see my hello post) and as have JUST got outstanding from Ofsted and JUST had visit from EHO and according to him met the EH criteria of 'Good' - my practice must meet and exceed the current standards of those that make these judgements.

rickysmiths
17-10-2010, 09:49 AM
Well said Winnie..... to add to that, if we clean a table with an antibacterial spray then a baby licks the table or puts hands all over and then in mouth then they can ingest some of the spray so it is worth doing them.

No Kids here, what is your background/job??

jenni



This is one of the reasons why I have never used Anti Bac Spray/Liquid. I have always used good old fashioned hot soapy water. I have never had a problem with cross contamination as a result with my own children or any minded children. When my children were babies we saw the launch of Detox and a lot of my friends cleaned everything in sight with it and were surprised that I didn't. What happens when they start crawling anyway, we can't sterilise the floor and the garden.

I hate the over use of chemicals, we all have to build up our imunitiy and I have always felt that the increasing use of chemical cleaning products and sprays and air fresheners actually cause more problems to our health. I am convinced that the increase in Asthma and Exema(sp!) are both as a direct result of this.

I use environmentally friendly products and the only product that I may use on minded childrens stuff that has an black cross is Vanish Powder to remove stains on bibs, they are then washed in environmentally mild washing powder. Even the liquid I use in the dishwasher does not have a black cross unlike all the usual brands.

I do have a file with the Safety Data Sheets for some products I use with the family but only the ones I can ring up and get or I can print off the internet. I am not trained or qualified to construct one myself.

However as I said before it is my understanding that the emergency services wouldn't be interested in the information anyway so actually why are we keeping the information anyway and for who to use?

Sorry I'll get off my Soap Box now!

jumpinjen
17-10-2010, 04:41 PM
There is a lot of confussion about this (and lots of other things) and childminders are producing and filling sheets that there is no need for (or more often - not filling in - as have so many forms and not enough time - and then feel bad / quilty as are 'behind' with paperwork)

As a childminder who does not employ anyone - the label on the bottles PLUS safe storage PLUS safe useage is all that you need to do. (and this would be within your risk assessment)

However if you personally wish to take up training / implement previous knowledge (about anything that is not actually a requirement) that is YOUR choice and YOUR professional development - it does not mean everyone else has to follow like sheep - we all have things that we are interested in / passionate about and therefore do 'extra' - and if we all did all the 'extras' just because someone else does we would all end up shattered and totally fed up of paperwork.

Please do continue to say what you do - as others MAY wish to do similiar and it is good to share (idea behind this forum I thought) but please do not give the impression that others are required to do the same when they are clearly not.
Sorry for rant (especially as I am new on here) but it seems to me that 'panic' about not doing the right thing is a major cause of stress on this forum.

And if wondering if I know what I am talking about (see my hello post) and as have JUST got outstanding from Ofsted and JUST had visit from EHO and according to him met the EH criteria of 'Good' - my practice must meet and exceed the current standards of those that make these judgements.

I'm not sure why so many have got so rattled about this post...... no-one did give the impression that is had to be done... it was just a discussion (initially) between those that were intereseted in doing it then others with a bone to pick jumped on it......I'm a bit confused really...... tbh it is 'rants' that cause stress, not the suggestion of practice that people choose to undertake..... we all recognise how inconsistent ofsted are and what works for one 'outstanding' practitioner will not work for another in ofsted's book!!

Jen

sarah707
17-10-2010, 05:07 PM
. we all recognise how inconsistent ofsted are and what works for one 'outstanding' practitioner will not work for another in ofsted's book!!

Jen

That's the other problem isn't it? :(

I do extra bits and pieces because my inspector told me I must not get complacent with my outstanding.

So I have a document I've been writing since the day she walked out over 3 years ago showing exactly how I have improved and what I have done so I can prove that I am not complacent.

Then I think that I might get someone totally different next time who looks for the one thing I have not done :rolleyes:

wellybelly
17-10-2010, 05:09 PM
This is one of the reasons why I have never used Anti Bac Spray/Liquid. I have always used good old fashioned hot soapy water. I have never had a problem with cross contamination as a result with my own children or any minded children. When my children were babies we saw the launch of Detox and a lot of my friends cleaned everything in sight with it and were surprised that I didn't. What happens when they start crawling anyway, we can't sterilise the floor and the garden.

I hate the over use of chemicals, we all have to build up our imunitiy and I have always felt that the increasing use of chemical cleaning products and sprays and air fresheners actually cause more problems to our health. I am convinced that the increase in Asthma and Exema(sp!) are both as a direct result of this.

I use environmentally friendly products and the only product that I may use on minded childrens stuff that has an black cross is Vanish Powder to remove stains on bibs, they are then washed in environmentally mild washing powder. Even the liquid I use in the dishwasher does not have a black cross unlike all the usual brands.

I do have a file with the Safety Data Sheets for some products I use with the family but only the ones I can ring up and get or I can print off the internet. I am not trained or qualified to construct one myself.

However as I said before it is my understanding that the emergency services wouldn't be interested in the information anyway so actually why are we keeping the information anyway and for who to use?

Sorry I'll get off my Soap Box now!

Well said, I use antibacterial spray on my kitchen surfaces but good old fashioned hot soapy water on the table the children use for eating / playing and for cleaning toys. I do find it come's up cleaner using this method.

Penny1959
17-10-2010, 05:56 PM
I'm not sure why so many have got so rattled about this post...... no-one did give the impression that is had to be done... it was just a discussion (initially) between those that were intereseted in doing it then others with a bone to pick jumped on it......I'm a bit confused really...... tbh it is 'rants' that cause stress, not the suggestion of practice that people choose to undertake..... we all recognise how inconsistent ofsted are and what works for one 'outstanding' practitioner will not work for another in ofsted's book!!

Jen

I agree Jen, the initial dicussion was just that a discussion but then as you say some did 'rant' and quite stronly that they were right - that is what I was referring to in my 'rant' not to suggestions of good practice.

I find discussion and reading what others do to be informative and I (like others I am sure) then reflect on my own practice.
Penny

nokidshere
17-10-2010, 06:02 PM
That's the other problem isn't it? :(

I do extra bits and pieces because my inspector told me I must not get complacent with my outstanding.

So I have a document I've been writing since the day she walked out over 3 years ago showing exactly how I have improved and what I have done so I can prove that I am not complacent.

Then I think that I might get someone totally different next time who looks for the one thing I have not done :rolleyes:

I'm totally resigned to the fact that I probably will not ever get an outstanding. But hey ho! As long as I am full with a waiting list (which I have been for many years now) I will continue to question ofsted about their gross inconsistancies and lack of knowledge on the law.

I firmly believe that we should all be inspected with the same criteria and not to do so is doing us all a great injustice. Despite my protestations I have all the paperwork that ofsted require - under duress - because I want to be registered.

As for being complacant about your outstanding.. how can you be? If you are inspected now and get an outstanding then all you need to do is keep doing what you are doing - marking you down next time for doing exactly the same would not be an option!

Winnie
17-10-2010, 07:33 PM
Did I rant? I’m not sure, I was just trying to explain how I do things but am never much good at reading the emotions in my own posts - I certainly never intended to imply my way was the correct/expected way. But someone asked about COSHH for their NVQ, I answered.

I do not feel overwhelmed by my self-chosen tasks, I have a system in place that enables me to work efficiently and it keeps me enthusiastic for my job. What I do is my choice, I also have been graded Outstanding by Ofsted twice, BUT it does not mean everyone has to follow what I do, or even agree with what I do ;) As with Sarah I too am working hard to show improvement and not get complacent, funnily enough receiving OS the first time was a joy, but at my last inspection the pressure was there (self induced) to keep it. I was lucky with my last inspector, she had run her own nursery before becoming an inspector, she appreciated my way of working and was very complimentary of the systems I have in place, but she was also a very child-friendly person iyuwim (always amazes me that you can get Ofsted inspectors who appear not to like small children :rolleyes: ) and joined in the play.

I probably do loads that it is considered un-necessary by some of my fellow childminders. As long as I’m meeting the EYFS requirements what does it matter? I wanted to learn about CAF last year, there is no training available so I found some myself –online- I do not consider myself ‘trained’ to implement CAF because of it but it has added to my professional development. I do not do things just to get brownie points from Ofsted, for me it is about providing a quality service :)
I look forward to other discussions, and I hope to share what I do and also learn from other dedicated childminders.

rickysmiths
17-10-2010, 09:46 PM
I would still be interested to know if anyone who has been advised to keep Hazzard info if they could tell us for whom we have to keep it and for what it is used?

Leapsters
17-01-2011, 10:36 AM
Hi there,

I just thought i'd comment as I have been told that OFSTED is actually cracking down on Coshh. Apparently it is the next big thing to come... BEST HOLD MY HORSES!!!! Got an inspection in a week...trying to do last minute tweeks and then I was told this...arrrrgggghhh... I've only been registered for six months, really not easy to do what is expected of us. Just dont know where to find the time :blush:


Sorry I wasn't meaning to be abrasive - just factual! COSHH regulations apply to industries where chemicals are used for the safety of the staff. They are not necessary in a home situation. I think we, as childminders, do way above the level required and we don't need to be adding extra, un necessary work to our already heavy load!

My background is in childcare. I have been a child carer and a nursery manager in many settings for over 30 years. I have managed large businesses where these things are necessary and am now working at home where they are not.

However, the information I gave regarding COSHH came from my husband after I read him the OP. He is a Senior Health & Safety Manager with nearly 40 years experience.

We do not (unless we employ others) need to have manufacturers data sheets. We do not (unless we employ others) have to carry out any COSHH assessments. We do not even (despite what Ofsted say and unless we employ others) have to have written risk assessments.

These things are fact. Obviousllly if you want to go ahead and do them thats your perogative but when the majority of posters are saying they dont have enough time in the day to do the things we HAVE to do then it seems daft to start doing things that are not required!

nokidshere
17-01-2011, 07:02 PM
They can't "crack down" on something that isn't a legal requirement in the first place.

And anyway, aren't Ofsted being disbanded????

Leapsters
21-01-2011, 11:48 AM
I have spoke to HSE regards to Coshh and legal requirements. We have to assess all our Coshh items on the premises. This is a legal requirement.

But But But... it does not have to be in writing. They did say it would be good practise to keep data safety sheets though, just in case something happens..

Ofsted to be dispanded???? What is all that about???

rickysmiths
21-01-2011, 02:12 PM
I have spoke to HSE regards to Coshh and legal requirements. We have to assess all our Coshh items on the premises. This is a legal requirement.

But But But... it does not have to be in writing. They did say it would be good practise to keep data safety sheets though, just in case something happens..

Ofsted to be dispanded???? What is all that about???



Define assess please.

Did they tell you why we have to keep the sheets because I have been told the emergency services coming to a domestic premisis would not be interested in them.

sarah707
21-01-2011, 05:02 PM
Define assess please.

Did they tell you why we have to keep the sheets because I have been told the emergency services coming to a domestic premisis would not be interested in them.

Hmmm interesting argument... that might well be true but there are a number of things we do that the emergency services aren't interested in.

For example, they couldn't care a hoot about emergency permission forms because they will do anything possible to protect a child's life regardless of who brings them to the hospital or rings 999...

Plus having spoken to a number of medics about it, they tell me that they wouldn't listen to us if we gave permission for anything, regardless of signed forms... they would always do their best and then wait for parents.

So you could say don't bother with emergency permissions if you followed the same logic... BUT we know that if we do not have them Ofsted will give us unsatisfactory for keeping children safe.

Following that logic, it seems we have to bow down and do what a variety of masters tell us to do regardless of whether the said masters have communicated with each other or not don't you think?!

Ok off my soap box now :D

nokidshere
22-01-2011, 01:31 AM
I have spoke to HSE regards to Coshh and legal requirements. We have to assess all our Coshh items on the premises. This is a legal requirement.

But But But... it does not have to be in writing. They did say it would be good practise to keep data safety sheets though, just in case something happens..

Ofsted to be dispanded???? What is all that about???

I'm sorry. I know I am like a dog with a bone about this issue of Legal requirements when it comes to H&S and risk assessments.

I am really interested to know who you spoke to though regarding the COSHH information. There is no legal requirement to provide coshh assessments in a home setting unless you employ staff. This is not me being pedantic - its a fact.

As for Ofsted being disbanded - I thought they were going to contract inspections out t private concerns? Have I misunderstood that?

Cammie Doodle
22-01-2011, 09:16 AM
Sorry I wasn't meaning to be abrasive - just factual! COSHH regulations apply to industries where chemicals are used for the safety of the staff. They are not necessary in a home situation. I think we, as childminders, do way above the level required and we don't need to be adding extra, un necessary work to our already heavy load!

My background is in childcare. I have been a child carer and a nursery manager in many settings for over 30 years. I have managed large businesses where these things are necessary and am now working at home where they are not.

However, the information I gave regarding COSHH came from my husband after I read him the OP. He is a Senior Health & Safety Manager with nearly 40 years experience.

We do not (unless we employ others) need to have manufacturers data sheets. We do not (unless we employ others) have to carry out any COSHH assessments. We do not even (despite what Ofsted say and unless we employ others) have to have written risk assessments.

These things are fact. Obviousllly if you want to go ahead and do them thats your perogative but when the majority of posters are saying they dont have enough time in the day to do the things we HAVE to do then it seems daft to start doing things that are not required!

Oh my son will be soooooo pleased you have said this, as he keeps telling me I have far too much paperwork on the go :)and worry if Im not doing more. He says that most of it is common sense and as A mother / Foster Carer/ Childminder with all the years of experience I have taken all the precautions over the years, without any serious mishaps .
Please Mum stop "looking" for more and more paperwork, you have enough to do without looking for more, enjoy the children it is after all why you took up Childminding :blush: He has a point .

rickysmiths
22-01-2011, 11:52 AM
Hmmm interesting argument... that might well be true but there are a number of things we do that the emergency services aren't interested in.

For example, they couldn't care a hoot about emergency permission forms because they will do anything possible to protect a child's life regardless of who brings them to the hospital or rings 999...

Plus having spoken to a number of medics about it, they tell me that they wouldn't listen to us if we gave permission for anything, regardless of signed forms... they would always do their best and then wait for parents.

So you could say don't bother with emergency permissions if you followed the same logic... BUT we know that if we do not have them Ofsted will give us unsatisfactory for keeping children safe.

Following that logic, it seems we have to bow down and do what a variety of masters tell us to do regardless of whether the said masters have communicated with each other or not don't you think?!

Ok off my soap box now :D


I couldn't agree more Sarah. I have been saying for years that the medical permission form is a load of tosh.

Only the parents or legal guardians have any say and of course the medics will do whatever they have to for the child until the parents have been contacted. All we can do is get a child the best care as quickly as possible if the parent is not in a position to do it and support the child in any way we can until the parents arrive.

We have to get permission to seek this expert help so if some daft parent questioed our decision and said 'I did not want xx taken to a hospital or treated by a para medic' we have covered ourselves.


I would argue the not keeping a child safe if you don't have a written permission. (I do of course have them like we all do). How exactly are we not keeping them safe if we don't have this? We would seek medical help if it was needed and this is what will keep the child safe isn't it. This is another example of it sounds good but it actually means dxxm all!


I do think that perhaps the time is coming where Childminders are going to have to stand up and question hard what we are expected to do regarding some of the paperwork. Ofsted and other bodies are quick to tell us but don't seem to be able to justify it, which is mad and a waste of our time and our parents time.

rickysmiths
22-01-2011, 11:58 AM
I'm sorry. I know I am like a dog with a bone about this issue of Legal requirements when it comes to H&S and risk assessments.

I am really interested to know who you spoke to though regarding the COSHH information. There is no legal requirement to provide coshh assessments in a home setting unless you employ staff. This is not me being pedantic - its a fact.

As for Ofsted being disbanded - I thought they were going to contract inspections out t private concerns? Have I misunderstood that?



Osted are not being disbanded. Yes they now Contract out CM Inspection to 2 private companies. This has been the case for School Inspections for years now and very few people were even aware that this happened. In fact Ofsted have never employed full time Inspectors for schools. They used Head Teachers onsecondment or called in people as and when from different sources. I don't understand the fuss that has been made over the same process happening for cms. We won't notice any difference. Ofsted as the Regulatory Body will still stay in place.

rickysmiths
22-01-2011, 12:06 PM
Oh my son will be soooooo pleased you have said this, as he keeps telling me I have far too much paperwork on the go :)and worry if Im not doing more. He says that most of it is common sense and as A mother / Foster Carer/ Childminder with all the years of experience I have taken all the precautions over the years, without any serious mishaps .
Please Mum stop "looking" for more and more paperwork, you have enough to do without looking for more, enjoy the children it is after all why you took up Childminding :blush: He has a point .



What a sensible lovely chap your son sounds and after all he has survived to tell the tale so you must be doing something right. :clapping: :clapping:

Cammie Doodle
22-01-2011, 05:49 PM
Thanks he is :blush: and do you know what? He is talking sense I did start minding because I enjoy being with Children and love to see them developing and growing whilst with me :) So my plans are keep the children safe do what I need and not go looking for anymore paperwork :D

Cammie Doodle
22-01-2011, 06:01 PM
Thank You Cameron for reminding me why I love my Job