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LittleGems1970
07-09-2010, 09:48 PM
Hi, Firstly I love this forum! It makes me feel so 'normal' and that it isn't just me feeling this way!

secondly, sorry this is long........im exhausted as to what to do!!!

Anyway, mindee is 2.5yrs, I have had her just over a year, she has always been a little bit 'tough' shall i say! She is an only child of I think older parents, she isn't very sociable with other kids and people but she has always settled here no problem and adores my youngest (4 yrs old), older son and OH. Mum has always been a bit 'fussy' with her really, like she is still a baby almost, she still breast fed till recently and child demanded that she did it when it was home time!!! always to stall going home, kicks up a fuss at home time, wanting this, wanting to play with that, taking coat and shoes off etc that I have already put on ready for her to go! mum never forced anything on her, was always childs descision........until i put my foot down and said my time is as precious as yours with my family etc (she did seem to get offended by this but it made me more determined to be strong and stand my ground) almost every evening i get texts, calls half an hour before she comes to tell me what mood she may be in etc - i do have my own and 2 others i mind too.

well, since january 2010 i took on another child, same age, thought it would be great for her.........well, im finding it so hard, demanding, annoying!!! she wont have anything to do with the newest, relies alot on my own child who does adore her and will always fuss over her etc, she has moods like nothing i have seen before, if she doesnt want to speak to you.....she wont, if she doesnt want to eat.....she wont, she has a different issue to get through every week, its either potty trouble, grumpy from this, suffering with that, now she is scared of anything (actually cinderella) she is very controlling and manipulative really for such a young child, she tends to control the whole group on her moods

i think her mum forgets i have other children to mind as well as my own, everything is for attention, she needs my full attention all the time, when she first started she was very independent in a way, she had to feed herself etc, she is a fab talker (if she wants to) but now she takes hours to eat, will only eat when i prompt or if i put it on the fork, i try to ignore it and leave room etc to play with others and casually come to the kitchen to 'check' well, she hasnt moved since i left, she wants me to sit with her feeding her i think!

i do have a good working relationship with parents they do know what she is like, mum more fussy than dad, but mum will say, perhaps she just needs more attention today, or she needs more reassurance today...she is very needy with mum, as soon as mum comes to collect, she turns into a little devil, if she is still having tea (normally she is) the minute mum comes she wails, mum gets her down and says what about your tea??? then she throws paddys that she wants a plum, a biscuit anything - and yes mum gives it as soon as she is out of the door! she is usually outside screaming because she wants to get in the car herself and walk down my steps herself so mum brings her back up the steps for her to do it herself ITS SO FRUSTRATING!!!!

I think she needs a nanny! i keep saying to her mum, she wont speak etc and totally blanks the other mindee and physically cries if i say hold hands with them whilst doing nursery run etc, she has such a problem and she knows exactly what she is doing!

i just dont know what to do, she is always happy to come to my house and has moments of 'fun' but she is such a miserable toddler but very manipulating (mum is very much like this i have found.....in a nice way ;)

we could be doing crafts etc and i will say 'ooh what do you want to do' her face screws up and she wont do it! she goes to a nursery 2 days and she really doesnt like it there she does cry when she goes. i would never give notice to the other mindee just because this one doesnt like her, her mum even says 'i was looking back in her diary and its been since january really she has these moods' i say well, i could have new children come and go whenever, new children start nursery and school, she has to get used to new things and people!!

Is is me or what :(

thanks if you have managed to get to here x x

Mookins
07-09-2010, 10:22 PM
soundslike my little brother when he was a wee one.....such a miserable moody little bee, is lovely now though

i dont really know what to say hun to be honest apart from nothing will help if mum doesnt follow through too

but then you proably know that

hope someone can help you

xx

Hebs
08-09-2010, 05:15 AM
Time to get tough!

Your house your rules!

If she refuses to est take food away if she has a temper... time out
If she wont join in leave her!

Kids will only continue with behaviour if it gets them what they want!

Blaze
08-09-2010, 05:21 AM
Agree with Hebs - she's learnt how to manipulate everyone in her life - you need to take the power back!:thumbsup:

Tinglesnark
08-09-2010, 06:19 AM
i agree with blaze and hebs, stand your ground and maybe have a talk about new discipline procedures with mum - if she wont help you in sorting out the issues and you dont make headway then do you think you should think about giving notice?

keeks
08-09-2010, 06:27 AM
I have recently been going through a very similar thing with a 3.5 year old at my nursery. She does not listen, demands attention, interrupts and is not kind to friends. I called the parents in for a meeting in the beginning of summer. They did not really take our concerns very seriously and admitted to "spoiling" her. I called another meeting about a month ago, stressing that other children were now beginning to shy away from her and the situation was getting worse. This time the parents were on board and I suggested we worked together on the issues. The strategies we now use both at home and at nursery are

We ignore her when she interrupts and give her attention when we are ready.
We give her three reminders to listen, then she goes to time out (on a chair in the room for 3 minutes).
We reinforce good behaviour by praising her when she is "good", and particularly by praising peers next to her when they are doing what asked (this one is a winner, she is desperate to have the same praise as the others).
We use stickers for rewards (did try a chart but she got bored of it and did not care after a week).
I write any incidents but also positives in her book on a daily basis.
The most important part: the parents have stopped treating her if she is not kind to friends or is disruptive at nursery or at home.

It is vital to have the parents on board. Stress the difficulty of the situation and that you want to help the child to develop the social skills etc. Also I made sure I pointed out her positive behaviour to the parents so they did not feel overwhelmed.

The first couple of weeks she did fantastically, then she has gone back a bit over the last week. I think she gets bored of the whole good girl thing. We are however sticking to our guns and the parents are still very much on board and determined. She will not get treats etc and she will not get anywhere using negative behaviour, at nursery or at home.

Sorry this is soooo long!

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

xxx

PixiePetal
08-09-2010, 07:02 AM
I once had a manipulator to mind. She got used to the fact that she didn't do things/say things at my house as it got her nowhere! I did have words with mum, the fact that I had other mindees to consider - she was fine about it.

Still had mum running after her and wrapped round her little finger :rolleyes: mum even said to her 'i bet you don't do that at Jennies house?' answer 'NO! she won't let me'!!

I just got on with playing with other mindees and she soon got bored and joined in.

JulieA
08-09-2010, 07:13 AM
The approach I would take is this:
a) really big up positive behaviour. For example: even if she just eats one spoonful of her meal say something like "Wow! You are eating your tea like a really big girl. Well Done!" and probably a sticker if she eats most of it.

b) try not to react to negative behaviour as any reaction is attention. It is really hard I know but is a really powerful tool. If she gets no response she may eventually get the message.

c) with mealtimes if she hasn't eaten her meal within a reasonable time then just take it away without saying anything, wash her hands and get her down from the table.

I agree with the others who say you need to stand firm. Sometimes parents just don't realise the effect the way they treat their child has.

Good Luck :thumbsup:

mushpea
08-09-2010, 07:15 AM
i agree with hebs too,, no more missus nice lady,, get tough and reinforce house rules,, if she ignores you and wont play with the other child then ignore it and carry playing with the new child,, I had one that at lunch time would say yes i want lunch then when i gave it him he would say dont want it, then i took it away and he had a shout up cause he wanted it,, this went on most days till in the end when he said dont want it i took it away and didnt give it back,, it soon stopped when he realised he wasnt getting any food.

LittleGems1970
08-09-2010, 09:21 AM
Hi, thanks for all your replies and taking time to read the very long post!

well, as my post was far too long already i tried to not go on! believe me, i could have! ;)

It's really strange because she never ever tantrums here at all, she just does the miserable face and cries! I don't get the bad behaviour as such! its just like she wants to control - and i really dont allow it, for example yesterday, i had to take my own daughter to nursery, we started lunch at 11.20am, she is eating it but like a snail! we leave for 12.10pm, i just leave her to get on with it and when the others have finished (they usually polish everything off) i always say 'well done, you have done really well etc' - i tell her that when we have to go thats it, its done with! well, to me, its like she thinks well i dont want to eat it anyway or i have got away with eating it!

I do totally ignore her when she doesnt want to join in and carry on playing with the others, she just stands and glares and i then go on to praise the others, with, wow, thats fab, or you are having fun etc., she isnt bothered at all, she would happily stand there for hours if could.

very, very stubborn - her dad brought her this morning and he is great really and just says things like we need to stop making excuses over her all the time and she is in a mood today! her mum is paranoid, she is always at docs with a sniffle, constantly on anti-b's (dont know how she gets them so often!) if she has been particularly grumpy her mum says, oh, do you think she looks pasty, is she ok, do you think she is starting with something!!! i say NO!! she seems fine other than not wanting to do etc. i dont pamper to her! it really does my head in! she comes to pick her up and usually has some printed info of anxiety in toddlers, terrible two's etc, restarting potty training - she does work with me and when i say i just ignore her she agrees and does say its a control/attention thing but it all goes to pot when she picks her up at home time!

i honestly dont take any rubbish, i have learnt from how mother and child are to know what they are like.

she was having issues with potty training after doing brilliantly and we had sticker chart etc here and at home, then after 8-10 wks or so she was doing it on the floor constantly in her pants (poo and wee's) i didnt give negative attention either because i knew she was doing it for this reason, one day was really bad, literally changed 4 or 5 times and while she is stood being cleaned etc she would just poo on floor and not flinch at all! i really had to count to 10 as to not shout 'whats the matter with you' - well her mum thought she obviously needed more attention that day for some reason and got sticker chart for her etc and she would get treats at home (not at mine) but her mum asked if she sent some chocolate biscuits (rocky's in packets) give her one of those after wee's poo's and if she eats her lunch and tea etc!!! well, i said no way! how would the other children feel when they do actually eat, we and poo on the toilet - i am not giving kids and my own children a reward of choc just for doing things that they should and are totally capable of doing!! she understood!
sometimes her mum comes and mindee runs and says i want......, her mum then says 'has she eaten her tea' i say no thats why she hasnt had yoghurt or fruit etc. then she says well, you should eat your tea shouldnt you, mindee then cries and mum says we will see what we have in the car! oh my god!!!!

another example - at 3pm we go for nursery and afterschool pickup, i say to both 'come on lets get shoes on' newest mindee always raring for anything - this one just puts head down with the 'face' - i ignore and sort other, open door to go down steps etc, just sit her on floor and put her shoes on, she is crying no dont want to go - i say we have to and say do you want to come down the steps, she refuses so pick her up and put her on floor and we are off.......usually screaming all the way (i've learnt to ignore it and ignore what other people may think that i am being cruel etc - one woman even offered to pick her up!!! i said NO, thats what she wants! some people!

by the time DD has come from nursery she runs up for a hug etc - my DD always has time for her but i do try to get her not to fuss her too much and not just drop everything because mindee wants her because she has decided she wants her!

Gosh, sorry ive really gone on again haven't i - i think its a release and relief to think its not just me too.

i suppose i know im doing what i think i should be doing and with what advice people have given me is kinda what i am doing - it's just 'good to talk'

i have even considered giving notice but believe it or not i do really like her - just not how she is - its totally draining me - i never seem to be able to swith off from her either! i dont want to give in after just over a year just because the last 9 months have been hell!

anyway, thank you all so much, love reading your stories too and am totally addicted to this forum in a big way!! :thumbsup:

love to all x x x

Pipsqueak
08-09-2010, 09:31 AM
Lots of good advice already given and all of it agreed with :thumbsup: :D
It also sounds like you are doing a smashing job so give yourself some credit to hun. Think what you needed was a bit of reassurance.
Perhaps having a chat with the parents and explaining that you all need to sing from the same sheet and be consistent with the child. I would also take issue with them saying about she needs' extra attention'. To me that is implying you are not giving enough attention.

The biggest thing is the parents are obviously suffering from extreme working parent/only child parent syndrome. They are babying and spoiling their child and projecting some of their guilt onto you. Nip this in the bud - quickly. Been there done that with a mindee and her PIA parents. And for the benefit of the child - they need to let her grow up otherwise she ain't gonna know whats hit her once she starts school and other kids start shunning her for her ways and the teachers won't be so kind and gentle about it either!

LittleGems1970
08-09-2010, 09:55 AM
Lots of good advice already given and all of it agreed with :thumbsup: :D
It also sounds like you are doing a smashing job so give yourself some credit to hun. Think what you needed was a bit of reassurance.
Perhaps having a chat with the parents and explaining that you all need to sing from the same sheet and be consistent with the child. I would also take issue with them saying about she needs' extra attention'. To me that is implying you are not giving enough attention.

The biggest thing is the parents are obviously suffering from extreme working parent/only child parent syndrome. They are babying and spoiling their child and projecting some of their guilt onto you. Nip this in the bud - quickly. Been there done that with a mindee and her PIA parents. And for the benefit of the child - they need to let her grow up otherwise she ain't gonna know whats hit her once she starts school and other kids start shunning her for her ways and the teachers won't be so kind and gentle about it either!


Totally agree with this! thats what i say about school and nursery - she will get a great big shock and her mum will i think when she can't just have one to one all the time! i do know somebody who works at her private nursery and she was/is hard there too but as she says - they just leave them to it as they dont have time for one to one etc.

when i have said to mum and dad i am a childminder and i have other children i have to care for and it isnt fair on them, if she chooses not to join in or eat etc i am not spending an hour trying to get her to do it as then she has my full attention - they do agree totally and say they understand etc.

i think i just need reassurance that i am being strong with dealing with the situation without thinking i am resenting her because of her behaviour!

anyway i am inbetween sorting 3 children at the table and with my laptop (i am a super fast typist!) strategically placed where i can carry on typing whilst helping children make and decorate little piccies to take home (mindee actually wanted to do one with no problem today)

x x x

mai-lenabump
09-09-2010, 11:29 AM
does she have a sleep at all?
My daughter can be just like this (although thankfully not woth other people), she is very controlling and demanding. Sneaky and calculating like you would not believe for a 2 yr old.
One day i said that's it get up to bed. She went willingly. Slept for almost 3 hrs and was like another child when she got up!
She has a sleep everyday for atleast 2 hrs and if she misses it we know about it the next day!
Also she used to have a dummy and i recently took them off her except for bed time as she would paddy just to get one. Her behaviour has improved although i hope i am not jinxing myself by saying that!

Good luck - sounds awful and you are ob doing a fab job. Only reason i started minding was because i could not bear to send my nightmare child to someone else as thought they would have less patience than me and was petrified they'd smack her or worse! x

LittleGems1970
09-09-2010, 12:40 PM
Hi,

thanks for reading too! i know they are long!

yes she does have a sleep between 1pm and 2.30pm - never a problem! i had a chat with her mum yesterday at pick up time as she always asks how she has been, well she ate her lunch and tea - no problem! wouldnt have anything to do with other mindee just my daughter, and while my daughter is at nursery 12.30 - 3.30pm after nap times etc, thats worse as we played outside - she didnt want to come out and join in with other mindee, i did just put her out with us and said she could watch (we painted some plant pots, which was lovely for kids to decorate - but no!) other mindee kept trying to engage but no luck!

other mindee goes at 3pm on a wednesday - well, yes - she is better after that as she has my daughter and older afterschooler, when her mum came to pick up it was just my daughter and her, she was giddy and dancing away - which she can be like this but its all on her terms (well she wants it to be like this) her mum said to me perhaps just ignore when she doesnt want to join or participate in anything, i said thats what i do, she was hugging me and daughter when she was going and her mum says she idolises her - she needs a sibling! and they are trying - but other mindee was talking to her dad at drop off on tuesday and she came from the other side of the room and pushed her away and said 'thats my daddy' she is so jealous!

my daughter was playing with a nursery pal before we got home yesterday and they had a run about, mindee holding my hand and she kept shouting her with arms out for her to come to her - as if, she is my friend etc! but she does have her moments with mine where she ignores.

everyday is like russian roulette - never know what will make her turn, i dont walk on egg shells because of this as i have other kids, its her choice if she doesnt want to have fun!

as we parted yesterday we both just said obviously she was never like this before (very timid etc but not as moody) and just decided that she doesnt like the other mindee and its her way of trying to control everything - i said well i can only do what i have been doing, im not going to get rid of the other mindee etc, this is going to happen in life!!

all this from a 2.5 year old :laughing: a clever one too!

x x x