What do you all think...is it fair?

[MissTinkerbell]

In my area it has just been announced that there is no more funding available so they are no longer issuing newly registered childminders the start-up grant which covered the cost of: ICP Course and exam; First Aid Course; 1st years Ofsted registration; 1st Years NCMA membership, insurance and their purple box.

I know that Ofsted insist that as part of our registration that we all need to have done and passed the ICP course. To do this course it costs £190 plus an extra £40 for the exam according the local Early Years team. I have a friend who is in the process of registering to be a childminder and has been told that she now needs to find the money to pay for all of these, which will cost her in excess of £400.

Now I realise that we live in difficult financial times and probably realise that some people say that why should tax payers foot the bill for us to become childminders, why shoud we not fund it ourselves?

However my point is that it is an Ofsted requirement that we have the ICP. My friend has childcare qualifications that far outstrip the ICP and has spent her entire working life as a nursery nurse; lead practitioner and deputy nursery manager so is extremely well qualified and experienced.

I can understand the need for people to do and pass the ICP when they have had no previous experience or childcare qualifications but is it really necessary if we already hold a relevant childcare qualification and should this not be taken into consideration by Ofsted?

When I had my pre-reg visit the Ofsted inspector actually told me that it was a waste of time me doing the ICP course because I wouldn't actually learn anything I didn't already know - which was true and in fact on a couple of sessions I actually knew more that the tutor.

So my friend has to pay out over £200 to do a course that is at a lower level than she already has just because Ofsted require it. She is now having to rethink becoming a childminder, which is a shame because she would make an absolutely fantastic childminder.

Now that our Early Years team has gone this way it can't be much longer before others follow and I think its about time Ofsted rethought their insistance of us needing to have done the ICP course if we already hold relevant and recognised childcare qualifications to a specified level. So for example if we already hold a level 2 or above relevant childcare qualification then we should not need to do the ICP course? After all if you hold an early years teaching degree and have only taught in nursery Ofsted do not insist you do another course if you wish to teach Y6 so why the same for childminding?

What are your opinions on this, out of curiosity?

[Millenium]

Where I live, there has never been any funding available - the county council does provide some free single-session training courses such as Risk Assessments, Food Hygiene etc. but nothing else. All the council's funding goes to nurseries in our county!

[Mouse]

I've never done the ICP course, so I don't know what it entails. I have to say though, the newly registered cms who I support never seem to come out of it knowing very much!

As things stand I think that if it is an Ofsted requirement then you have to do it, no matter what other qualifications you have. You say your friend is very well qualified and experienced, but I take it she has never worked from home as a cm? It is different to running or working in a nursery and I would hope the ICP course highlights & helps with that (though I have my doubts!)

I don't think it should it should be funded simply because it's an Ofsted requirement, but I do think in the future Ofsted should maybe take other childcare qualifications and experience into consideration. What about a shorter (cheaper) course, or the option of just taking the exam?

I know our funding is being seriously cut here & we're very lucky to still be getting our first aid courses paid for. It worries me that if start up costs become too much, people just won't bother registering & will childmind unregistered.

I didn't get any funding at all when I started up, but then the costs were a lot less. I do think cms should be prepared to cover all the costs themselves, but that these costs should be kept to a minimum and should be for things that are only really necessary.

[louised]

However my point is that it is an Ofsted requirement that we have the ICP

Is it an Ofsted requirement? Have they only recently announced this as I became registered in 2007 and never did the ICP it was never suggested to me and I assumed it was because I was already level 3 qualified, I thought it was for those who didn't have a childcare qualification.

[blue bear]

newly registering childminder funding stopped a couple of years ago in our area. Whilst I do think childminders should support the start of their new business, I do feel some of the requiremnts from Ofsted should be looked at, not just for newbies.

The ICP requirement when a person holds a current higher qulaification definetly should be looked at, the problem is when someone holds, say an NVQ they did 4 years ago and has not refreshed their learning since and may not be up to date with current thinking/regulations.

[Tribe_mummy]

Funding is being cut in Warwickshire too, there will be nothing available after april for registering childminders although if I am right the reduced courses through the council (1 day sessions) will still be available.

Maybe the government should look at some sort of scheme where they fund the initial requirments and then once CMs are registered they can pay it back in small amounts, i'm sure something like that would help, childminding does have an big initial outlay, which does put people off.

Tbh I think the way we register should be the same across the country rather than county to county.

[MissTinkerbell]

Is it an Ofsted requirement? Have they only recently announced this as I became registered in 2007 and never did the ICP it was never suggested to me and I assumed it was because I was already level 3 qualified, I thought it was for those who didn't have a childcare qualification.

I think it is because even though my childcare qualifications are equivalent to NVQ Level 7 - she said I still had to do the ICP even though it was pointless.

[caz3007]

I dont know about the start up grant in our area, but do know that they no long fund your first aid, luckily I had just redone mine when they announced this. Our last listings for courses, was seriously lacking, I live in a large county and dont drive and most of the courses, werent anywhere near me and certainly not easily accessible using public transport. Again luckily I had recently updated my child protection too

[singingcactus]

I didn't get funding when I started up either. Don't know if it was offered or not, just didn't feel right taking money so that I could get registered for financial gain. So in my opinion, yes it is fair. Even if your friend feels she has superior qualification, the ICP would be a requirement of her registering with Ofsted so she can earn money.

Just to clarify, I registered back in 94, having been a nanny for some years prior to that, but was posted overseas in 2001-3 when OFSTED came in. So even though I had been a registered childminder for years I still had to do the ICP before I could re-register upon returning to the country. I didn't question whether it was fair or not, some hoops just need to be jumped through!

[kindredspirits]

I received the start up grant - and yes it was very helpful at the time, but i don't see it as a barrier to registration as in every other career you would normally have to shell out for some sort of training - my husband had to spend several thousand to train to be a driving instructor and never made decent money from it!

[Hebs]

I received the start up grant - and yes it was very helpful at the time, but i don't see it as a barrier to registration as in every other career you would normally have to shell out for some sort of training - my husband had to spend several thousand to train to be a driving instructor and never made decent money from it!

i was just going to post the same thing, most jobs entail some sort of training not all with free training x

[The Juggler]

I know it's hard but they are going have to find the clawback money the gov't wants from somewhere. In all honesty the cost probably might have put me off slightly if I'd have had to pay but on the other hand it means you don't have people just going through the process then dropping out (which often happens).

This way you have people who really do want to do it. I know some genuinely go into it and find out it's not for them - which can't be helped but I think there are a fair few time wasters too.

It isn't fair and people, me included have had ICP, Level 3 and higher education funded so it does seem quite tight.

Maybe they could have a system where they refund the cost you outlayed to you, a year after you have been minding so you show they got their money's worth out of you????

[gegele]

i had to pay for my ICP as i had a job at the time i did the course. then the eyfs came on in between and so i had to pay for 1st aid hich before was funded when you were registered and pay for eyfs trainning, safeguarding....

the ICP is not all about childcare it's also about registering your business, the tax etc.. all the business side of thing which are not taught to you on a nvq 2!

as it was said before if it's an old qualification things have changed...

but i agree amaybe a different course just on the business should be taken but no system is perfect.

:(

[snufflepuff]

No funding for any of it where i live, i paid for the whole lot myself and i was at the end of my maternity leave at the time so no money of my own coming in at all.
I also already had a level 3 qualification- i thought it was silly to have to then go and do a level 1 but actually i learned about the business side of things more that anything else so it was really helpful.
I wanted to be a childminder so i had to pay it. If i'd wanted to do any other course i'd have had to pay for it.
I think it's only fair really.

[zillervalley]

24yrs ago when I registered you got safety items to start up, after the fire officer had been and told you what you needed,

I have never done any of the courses you talk about,and dont have a childcare qualification

[em29]

I am confused now...not hard though! I thought it was compulsory for all childminders in all areas to hold the ICP and Paediatric first aid. When I was doing my ICP there were lots of experienced childminders there doing it to conform to the new regulations. :confused:
If you do not have ICP I thought then you would be graded inadequate and de-registered because it is a compulsory requirement??

[singlewiththree]

I wouldn't have been able to become a childminder if I hadn't had the start up grant, maybe it could be means tested. I only had to pay for my first aid everything else was paid as I'm a single parent on a low income. If had to pay hundreds of pounds I wouldn't have been able to do the course as I would have to try and save and with the situation I was in financially that wouldn't have been possible.

[louised]

If you do not have ICP I thought then you would be graded inadequate and de-registered because it is a compulsory requirement??


That cannot be the case because I have never done the ICP and had never even heard of it until I came across this site and I have had 2 inspections and was graded good both times

[MissTinkerbell]

I'm not saying that its right we should be funded to pay for the courses we need to do ...I don't think we should.

All I'm saying is it fair to have to pay for a course which is lower than the qualifications you already have and you don't actually learn anything new just so you can do the job you want to do?

Is it about time in this current financial climate thats Ofsted take into account the childcare qualifications people already hold when thinking about becoming a childminder so that what could be excellent childminders are not put off from registering?

Oh and by the way on my ICP course we did nothing about running a business, tax etc - I found all that out from talking to my DS's godfather and from the forum.

[margaret]

I think it is fair that everyone going into childminding has to do same courses.

you said ,
you don't actually learn anything new just so you can do the job you want to do?

I dont agree with above quote ,i am a registered paediatric nurse ,and have NVQ 3 and 4 in childcare and have taught paediatric first aid and i am learning all the time.If ofsted was to take into account everyones qualifications before registering them it would take forever ,they have to make it the same for everyone.As for funding ,yes its great if you can get it ,but if its not there you have to save for it.Running a business ,i looked into this before childminding,contacting HMRC and did a business course.

someone else says may be start up grant should be means tested - if was means tested i would never get anything - is that fair - i dont think so, i pay lots of tax and work extremely hard .

This is not a get at on people on this forum (which i think is great)or anyone in general but my point of view - some people want it all but they dont want to put in the work /hours in their own time and spend money on updating their education ,they think going into childminding is an easy option.

I will now wait for the flak

[MissTinkerbell]

I didn't learn anything new on my ICP course and from my origional post you will see that I actually knew more than the tutor on a couple of occasions.

I'm not saying that we should expect funding for courses we do and of course I'm contiually learning but just feel that Ofsted are not taking into account the qualifications we already have and perhaps should say that if you already hold an NVQ level 2 childcare qualification or above that there is no need to do the ICP.

It wouldn't be difficult to monitor all you would need to do is send off your certificates when you fill in the initial registration forms.

After all if you go for a job at a nursery and hold a NVQ level 3 childcare qualification they do not insist that you do lower course because you do not already have it before giving you the job.

[margaret]

I do understand what you are saying ,and to put everyone through ICP seems such a waste of money but its the same when you go into most jobs these days they like to waste money ,where as in going into childminding it is us that have to spend money to earn money - hope this makes sense and seems such a waste when we have the qualifications.Ofsted might get their act together with this in years to come ,all other changes take years.

I expect you do know a lot more than some of your tutors ,i know i do ,i get frustrated with my network co ordinator she has nvq3 in childcare ,experience as a deputy in nursery ,but no idea of looking after children in your own home ,and her own children went to nursery, and dare a child get paint on her designer trousers ,but thats going of the point completely.