not happy with current childminder, need advice

[dmax]

hi all i am new here,
i have some concerns regarding our current childminder and would appreciate some advice from childminders and parents . current c/m has been minding our daughter for 3.5 months now. but contract was only signed 2 weeks ago. at start 3 weeks into childminding we went on hols for 6 weeks, c/m asks us for a retainer, she asked us for full pay , we told her no, then she asked would we give her half if she kept place open , this we did and paid her half money. reflecting on this we shouldnt have bothered paying her as there was no contract in place. anyway its 3 and half months into her minding and she has taken 11 days of her holidays allready!! she gets payed full money for 15 days per year, so that leaves her only 4 days left. surely childminders have to earn their holidays as with anyones job ? if she takes all her paid holidays within say 5 months and after that she takes anymore days off then she doesnt get paid , right ? im concerned if she takes all her holidays and we or she cancels the contract can we the parents claim any of them paid holidays back off her ? also we the parents dont get any holidays off , i have talked to a few mums and they have told me that they get 2 weeks off per year for holidays. is two weeks off for parents the " norm " ? is it unreasonable to ask the childminder for 2 weeks off for ourselves ? a lot of questions i know but i am still learning and i havent a clue about childminding fees etc, by the way we are from northern ireland , uk . thanks in advance ;)

[Roseolivia]

In my contract i state that i take 4 weeks holidays a year, as most my parents are teachers i try to take my annual holidays when it's the school holidays. I don't charge anything for my holidays unless it's when it's the school hols as i then charge parents half fee to keep the space open. I charge parents half fee for their holidays and in the contract it states that they are entitled to 4 weeks of this. Childminders are entitled to take holidays when they want as we are self employed not employed by the parents, once she has used her 15 days paid holiday any other holiday would be unpaid. If you have worked out the fees to include holidays both sides so you pay the same each month then if the contract is cancelled before the year is out then you or the childminder would be owed any outstanding balance. As for not having a contract to begin with i'd advise you that if you ever went to another minder always have a contract before you start in case of any problems like this plus it could make the minders insurance invalid which would mean if you had to claim of your minder for any reasons you wouldn't get very far.
Hope this helps.

[mama2three]

Oh dear , sorry youre unhappy.
Is your little one happy and settled..this is first and foremost , and should be what you base your 'next steps' on.
If you have doubts about the care your child is recieveing then look for an alternative and give notice....
but If you feel that lo is happy you need to work through your concerns with the cm. Firstly look at your contract - even though it was late it should outline all your 'terms'. I dont charge for my holidays , but know several minders who do. They would all reimburse you proportionately if the contact ends 'mid year' regarding holidays etc. Its not always possible to build up holiday days before you take them - especially as this is the time of year when so many of us take holidays. I charge full fee for parents holidays and that is usually the case .

For the sake of your lo it is important that you build up a positive relationship with your cm...have a chat at pick up , or if shes busy ask her when the best time would be for a chat...
Start by saying you know how important it is to work together , and could she just clarify a couple of things for you...

Sorry , ive waffled on a bit! Good luck!

[wellybelly]

Different childminders work in different ways. I know a lot of childminders who do charge for when they take their holidays and others who don't. There is the argument that normal paid employment offers (for example) 21 days a year paid holiday then why should'nt childminders get the same entitlement. But this really should have been agreed, signed and acknowledged during a contract signing before any childminding commences.

Personally I don't charge for any of my holidays which is normally 5 weeks a year, but I do charge if the parent chooses to take their holidays when I am working. Most of my hols are taken during the school holidays and therefore parents make the most of the "free" opportunities by having their annual hols when I am off. Does this make sense lol! I try to make it clear that it's not the childs attendance which parents pay for, its the contracted place that needs to be paid for.

I always sign contracts before any childminding begins as both parties (the childminder and the parents) are covered under the childminders public liability insurance and basically it keeps everything fair and by the book. I hope you manage to sort this out with the childminder. Thanks for coming on the forum.

[aly]

1) did she do settling in sessions before care started?...this could be why especially if there were holidays taken between them.
2)...no we dont need to accrue holidays before taking thme as we are self employed so work as self employed people not employees. - what if the cm had her hols booked nefore you enquired...we will not cancel our hols because you start then a few weeks our hol is due.
3) parents also have as many hols as they want, as long as they give cm notice of when you intend to take them, all or at least mostly all cms will charge you for your hols{and sickness}
4) some cms charge for their hols some dont {i dont}
5) the cm was right in charging you a retainer for the 6 weeks, you went on hols for 6 weeks the cm has no money for that time and you may have cancelled care so the cm would be out of pocket, the retainer is there for both parent so they space is there and cm so they have a backup incase you dont go back!..this is the norm.

[The Juggler]

sorry to hear you are having a tough time. However, if our contract had started already, I would also have expected full pay for the 6 weeks you were away or I might have compromised on 1/2 pay if I'd known about it well before your child had started.

If you start with a minder and she has pre-booked holiday you cant really expect her to cancel but also she should have explained to you that her holiday entitlemtn was at full pay and that it was already booked. I take my holiday in the summer every year so would not cancel just because someone only started just before the summer break.

Having said all that it's unforgiveable that there was no contract in place for 3 weeks (as no contract = no insurance) and given how unprofessional this is I am assuming your CM did not clearly explain about holiday charges for either herself or you, in order that you could make an informed decision about your child's care.

Forewarned is forearmed and if you do consider moving your child these are crucial elements of care/payment you need to iron out. However, lots of fantastic minders do take paid holiday and will charge for any of your own long absences. Likewise, there are loads of fab minders that will not charge for their own hols and might offer you 2 weeks payment free holiday but you would be unlikely to find someone who would not expect payment for a 6 week absences. Maybe you can find someone, somewhere in the middle but the most important thing is someone who is happy to discuss (clearly) how their charges work so you are aware of them and there are no surprises later on.

However, if you are otherwise happy with your child's care, then it might be better to sit down with her now and say we got off on wrong foot please can you go through and explain these charges to me now so I understand how it works, then perhaps there might be a bit of room for compromise.

Good luck whatever you decide.:)

[Blaze]

Hi & welcome to the forum:)

I have nothing really to add to what's already been posted...I would say though, if your concerns are monitary based then it is worth sitting down with your CM & clearing the air (from what I've read, wht she has done / charged if pretty standard) - if you are happy with the care itself then worth staying put, as good childcare isn't expensive, it's invaluable. :)

[wellybelly]

Hi & welcome to the forum:)

I have nothing really to add to what's already been posted...I would say though, if your concerns are monitary based then it is worth sitting down with your CM & clearing the air (from what I've read, wht she has done / charged if pretty standard) - if you are happy with the care itself then worth staying put, as good childcare isn't expensive, it's invaluable. :)

Well said Blaze x

[fluffysocks]

From a childminders point of view, we are self employed and our own boss therefore we can take days off as and when and for how long providing a reasonable amount of notice is given, standard being 4 weeks notice.

As for Parents holiday some childminders allow soo many "free" days per contract year, others charge a retainer-commonly haf fee and some charge full fee.

In all cases some childminders set these fees and if you want their space then you agree to their charges, others are happy to discuss things and reach an agreement. In all cases these should be outlined and explained durin the contract process which should always take place before any minding starts.

That said there is no reaso why you shouldnt ask for a contract review, go along the lines of "its been 4 months now, can we meet up to discuss my childs progress, view his/her development portfolio/record, discuss "next steps" planning" as well as discussing the contract". Explain what you would like, let your childminder explain the contract clearly to you and see if there is a half way point where you are both happy. As much as childminders are self employed and our own bosses it is soo important to build up a positive happy relationship with the parents as well as the children.

From a parents point of view, my ex childminder charged full fee for any time off (hers or mine) and althought I felt it was excessive she was absolutely fantastic with my two, i really couldnt have asked for anyone better and she was part of my inspiriation for becoming a childminder myself, and I feltthat she was worth every penny and more.

alot of thoughts and feelings there, hope it helps you.

[auntym]

Hi and welcome

I agree with the majority of whats been said. I would have charged you a retainer for those weeks before you started as they could have been taken up by another little one and if you decided not to start the place would have been saved for you for nothing if you get me.
I* dont charge if im on holiday but i do charge the parent if theyre off as my service is still available, but then again the parent can therefore take whatever they like off.
The childminder may have had these hols booked already which cant be helped.
As said if your concerns are only money based then sit down and talk to her as good minding is worth alot xxxx

[mushpea]

Hi, defintaly think you need to ask for a chat with the childminder and talk to her about this before deciding futher what to do, at least give her the chance to sort out the problems first.
I dont charge for my holidays but for parents I charge half price for 4 weeks of the year then after that its full fee so for your 6 weeks i would have charged 4wks at half fee then 2 at full fee and you wouldnt get any more half pay weeks till the 2nd year of the contract starts.
as for when she takes her holiday thats up to her,, this is the time of year most people have their holidays , this should have been discussed at the signing of the contracts, as long as she has given you the required notice then there is not a problem with this.

[HELEN10]

Hi as for the time before you had a signed contract then basically both of you can do whatever because nothing has been written understood and signed!

However, afterwards then it would all depend on what you have agreed and signed to with your childminder. As has been said we do not have to accrue our holidays as we are self employed and not employed by yourself.

As a self employed person i only charge when i can offer a service, if i am not available there is no charge. So i would say to prospective parents that i charge all the year round unless i am on holiday, sick, etc and therefore not available to care for your child.

So parents would get approx. 4 weeks fee free per year, but your six weeks holiday would have all been charged as full fee.

Hope this helps, but like people have already said everyone works differently and that is up to them but should be made clear to both sides especially before signing contracts then issues like this can be avoided.

[TheBTeam]

I personally dont charge for my holidays, parents pay me when they are on holiday or the child is off sick, but that said if the parents had a holiday soon after the contract started then i probably would not have charged for it, but as it was for 6 weeks, then i think half fee to keep the place open is reasonable.

I agree with others in that if i had booked a holiday i would still take the holiday, but not expect payment from you if i took it near to the start of the contract (this i did when i took paid holidays), it is partly for this reason that i decided that i would for new signings not charge a holiday fee, and then i dont feel so guilty taking a holiday.

I would see how you feel generally about the other aspects of the service, is your daughter happy and receiving good quality care, if so then i would ensure that your contract is clear regarding payment for holidays and sickness on both sides and give a go for longer (not sure why the contract was signed so late, i personally do not even do settling in visits without a signed contract, if we need settling in visits then it is because a place is needed and a contract with a cancel without notice period is built in for protection of both parties, I believe settling in visits are to acclimatise a child when the decision is made to use the childminder, not to see if you like her or not.)

If you have other concerns then maybe you should look for an alternative childminder.
HTH

[dmax]

1) did she do settling in sessions before care started?...this could be why especially if there were holidays taken between them.
2)...no we dont need to accrue holidays before taking them as we are self employed so work as self employed people not employees. - what if the cm had her hols booked before you enquired...we will not cancel our hols because you start then a few weeks our hol is due.
3) parents also have as many hols as they want, as long as they give cm notice of when you intend to take them, all or at least mostly all cms will charge you for your hols{and sickness}
4) some cms charge for their hols some dont {i dont}
5) the cm was right in charging you a retainer for the 6 weeks, you went on hols for 6 weeks the cm has no money for that time and you may have cancelled care so the cm would be out of pocket, the retainer is there for both parent so they space is there and cm so they have a backup incase you dont go back!..this is the norm.

hi, the retainer was paid only into 3 weeks of childcare, and no contract was in place . is that the right thing to do to a parent - ask for a retainer to keep a place open even though theere was no contract? and the child was still in her settling in period?

[Baildon bears]

It sounds like you just need to look for someone else and start afresh, care for your child is such a personal thing and if you have any niggles at all they need to be addressed. I would always sign contracts before any child starts in my setting, I also do a 4 week trail so as both partys have chance to pull out of contract. The confliction between your c.m and yourself will not be doing your child any good. Go with your gut instinct. Its not a good start I always like to make a good impression, as buisness can lead to more buisness. Hannah

[miffy]

You really need to raise your concerns with your childminder and give her a chance to work things out with you.

It may be that your childminder had her holidays booked before you even approached her to look after your child - you need to see what is written on the contract about paid holidays.

Out of interest, did the childminder sit down with you and fill in the contract together?

Miffy xx

[wendywu]

I dont charge for my holidays at all. But do charge for parents holidays unless they fall at the same time as mine.

I would have wanted full pay for the six weeks you were off if i was available. :)

[huggableshelly]

I am no longer a childminder but when I was i did not charge for my holiday time and did not charge parents if 4 wks notice was given. any less than 4 wks were to be paid for with exeptions made for booked holidays before contracts were signed and unable to give that 4 wks.

I was advised many times to take 4 wks paid holiday and this is recomended by the NCMA too. most local cm's here charge full fee for parents hols and half fee for their own.

You could always call other cm's in the area and ask them about their holdiay policy/retainer as a prosective parent, as others have said request a contract review and air out the issues that have arisen.

[Mookins]

wonder why there was no contract signed at the beginning? thats a bit worrying :panic:

xx

[snufflepuff]

Aside from the fact that there was no contract (not good at all) I personally would have charged in full for the 6 weeks holiday you took. I do not charge for my own holiday- many do. Also, being self employed, she can take as much holiday as she wants, when she wants. Its obviously not very considerate of her to take lots in one go but it may have been neccessary, maybe she had a holiday booked or has had to take lots of time off for hospital treatment for example. She just has to give you the amount of notice she states on her contract, usually 4 weeks- but of course before the contract was in place she didn't have to do so.

[Blaze]

I was thinking about that - perhaps she was waiting for the NCMA (we all know that they can take weeks on end with orders):rolleyes: & didn't know anyone to borrow one from? So she carried on as she would normally, then got the contract done once they arrived...?Just a thought!

I apologise for any typing errors - new keyboard & it's really stiff - particularly the a - it's driving me nuts)!

[snufflepuff]

I was thinking about that - perhaps she was waiting for the NCMA (we all know that they can take weeks on end with orders) & didn't know anyone to borrow one from? So she carried on as she would normally, then got the contract done once they arrived...?Just a thought!

Thats a good point. Although i probably would have come up with something temporary just to cover myself. I do think there must be a reason for not having one- rather than just not bothering and so on.

[dmax]

I was thinking about that - perhaps she was waiting for the NCMA (we all know that they can take weeks on end with orders):rolleyes: & didn't know anyone to borrow one from? So she carried on as she would normally, then got the contract done once they arrived...?Just a thought!

I apologise for any typing errors - new keyboard & it's really stiff - particularly the a - it's driving me nuts)!

hi blaze,
can you be a bit more specific please , i dont understand what your saying, also i think people arent getting the picture here, childminding was only into the 3 rd week os settling in period and i had to pay retainer !! retainers is not meant to be paid untill there is a legally binding contract in place? true or not ?:rolleyes:

[PixiePetal]

As a CM I would have probably taken a retainer deposit to secure the place - non refundable if you didn't take the place after your hols. I would also have had contracts done before then, as soon as money changes hands, so we were both clear of expectations and fees to start after your hols.

If my hols were booked too (I don't charge for my hols) you would have been told.

Hope you get things sorted. If the care is good then other worries might be able to be ironed out. You need a meeting to sort it.

Just re read your post and realised you had already started with CMs care for 3 weeks before hols - in which case contract should have been written before that and your hols would be chargeable -sorry. Still no charge for my hols.

Just shows we need contracts to keep things clear on both sides

[FussyElmo]

hi blaze,
can you be a bit more specific please , i dont understand what your saying, also i think people arent getting the picture here, childminding was only into the 3 rd week os settling in period and i had to pay retainer !! retainers is not meant to be paid untill there is a legally binding contract in place? true or not ?:rolleyes:

Think Blaze is trying to understand why there was no contract in place. That the cm in question was waiting for an order to come from NCMA so she worked as she would while she was waiting for the contracts to come.

I am taking that you have now signed the contract and did you mention to the cm why it had taken so long to get one.

I would have charged full for your holiday whether you were in your setting in period or not. I would not have worked for 3 weeks and then had 6 weeks without pay and no guarantee you were coming back. I dont however for my hoildays but each to their own.

Think you need to talk to your cm and see what she says about her almost using her holidays in a short time and what she will do if the contract ends early.

[moljak]

this how I would have worked.
Contract would have been signed prior to settling in period.

Did you ask why there was no contract to sign?

I would have asked for full fee for your 6 week holiday as I was still available to work.

I think it was reasonable for the childminder to ask for half fees to keep your space available.

I personally don't charge for my days off/holidays.

Did you discuss this at your first interview? meeting stage? what was said?

If you have concerns is it just the money side or are you concerned about the care?

It would be helpful if you could answer these questions to give us a better picture.I'm asking as you have been given lots of posts about what we would do and alot are similar to your childminder.I think it all comes down to what was discussed prior to the settling in period.All these questions usually come up then and are answered through discussion then contract.

[Roseolivia]

hi blaze,
can you be a bit more specific please , i dont understand what your saying, also i think people arent getting the picture here, childminding was only into the 3 rd week os settling in period and i had to pay retainer !! retainers is not meant to be paid untill there is a legally binding contract in place? true or not ?:rolleyes:

Was your child going to the childminder her full hours through the settling in period or was it just an hour or two each week to see how she 'got along' with the minder. If she was doing her 'full proper' hours then yes she's right to ask for a retainer as you could of been using the settling in period to suit you, then not come back after your 6wks hols which would of meant you had free childcare (if minder wasn't charging for settling in) or the minder could of lost a contract to other parents.
Childcare shouldn't of started unless there was a 'legally binding contract' anyway as it invalids our insurance.

I think you should sit down with your minder and have a chat about it as it sounds like your working relationship has started off on a bad note and won't get better until you discuss these issues. Is your child happy there? If not i'd terminate your contract and find a minder who you feel happier with, maybe this minder is new to it all and is just learning what we need to do, there's so much we need to do before we start that it can be confusing, maybe that's just what's happened here regarding notice of holidays.

[tulip0803]

I would not have started caring for a child without a contract. If I was waiting for NCMA I would use one written by me until the NCMA ones arrived. As above care should not start until the contract has been signed as it is a requirement of registration in Wales (where I am) and is required for insurance purposes. However I am an experienced childminder (old) and I know this from experience.

If we had signed contracts then I would have charged full fee for your holidays as I would be unable to use the space as it belongs to your child and you are not paying for my time you are paying for a childcare place and if the place is available and you chose not to use it then it is your decision and it still needs to be paid for. I do not charge for my holidays however I take them when I choose and give as much notice as possible of any time off and a minimum of 4 weeks for a week off, is normally more.

I have a contract started this week (parents specified start date of contract at begin of Aug) and parents chose not to send LO so I charged for days LO did not come, LO is here next week but I am away the following week so no charge for that week but parents knew about my holiday before contracts were signed when they initially visited months ago.

[fluffysocks]

a contract should always be in place before any minding, and this includes settling in period. Settling in periods can be written into contracts. The NCMA contracts have a section for settling in periods.

with regards to the retainer, the childminder was within her rights to ask for it and if a contract had been drawn up from the very beginning you may well have had to legally pay the full amount that she asked for.

I think that this could lead to alot of bad feeling and perhaps you need to put what has already happened aside and start a fresh with contracts both you and your childminder are happy with, or, opt to start a fresh with a new childminder. Ultimately your child's welfare is whats important and any bad feeling between you and the childminder will most likely have an affect on your child.

If you do opt for a new childminder then please sign contracts before any form of minding takes place, as I say settling in periods can be written into the contract.

x

[ChocolateChip]

a) I would never start care without a signed contract, and without the parents being fully aware of my procedures such as holiday pay, etc.

b) we all run our own business how we see fit, personally I do not charge for any time that I take off, but I know lots of minders that do charge for their hols. I allow people who are not term time only to take 2 weeks off for free, and a further 2 weeks at half price, after that any time off is at full fee.

c) regardless of how long into the care you were, I would still charge for the 6 weeks off, as it would have been highly unlikely to have found someone else who wanted temporary care to fill the space at such short notice, I would have maybe offered the holiday option but that would still have meant you paying 3 weeks fees, which works out at half fee over the six weeks, so same as what your cm has done.

d)as a self employed person we are entitled to take time off as and when we choose, your cm should have explained clearly exactly when she was going to be off, and put her notice period in her paperwork for you.

I honestly don't think this cm is overcharging you, I think what she has done financially is pretty fair, however my concerns would be over the lack of a firm contract and the apparent lack of information. If your lo is happy and you are happy with her care then you need to do as others have suggested and ask for a meeting to clear everything up.
But if you still have concerns then I would start looking elsewhere now, and choose someone who is not only willing to share information but practically shoves it down your throat you should have been given not only a contract but access to all her policies and procedures, as with any good relationship communication, information and trust is the key, and it worries me slightly that this cm didn't have it all in place right from the start.

[snufflepuff]

also i think people arent getting the picture here, childminding was only into the 3 rd week os settling in period and i had to pay retainer !! retainers is not meant to be paid untill there is a legally binding contract in place? true or not ?


There should have been a legally binding contract in place regardless. But like Blaze said there may have been a reason for not having one avaliable to sign and therefore the cm was working as though there was a contract....she really should have explained this to you though if this was the case, and like i said earlier if i was in this situation i would have written up my own temporary contract to have in place until the official ones were delivered.

It makes no difference if you were still in the 4 week settling in period, if the cm charges for your time off you should pay for it. Its was your choice to take the holiday.

But again, without a contract she/ you could do as you wish really! You could have taken holiday without paying her and she could have replaced you with someone else while you were away!

Just curious- when you signed contracts what date was on them? The date that childcare started or the date that you actually signed them?

[auntym]

We would all ensure contract in place, but for some reason yours was delayed, the reasons you have not advised why?
Did you not fill anything out or was it a verbal agreement till your little one started properly.
Either way contract or no if you were using her services then to ask for a retainer to keep your place is fair.
If you had problem with having no contract but paying this can I ask if you told her this?
I know its not down to you so please dont think im saying this, just asking.
Are you happy with your minder?

[cuffleygirl]

Are you happy with the care you lo is being given (financial side apart)?

Did you agree terms and conditions?

What reason did she give you for not having a contract in place?

Did you question her reason for no contract?

How much notice do you have to give each other for holidays?

Did you BOTH adhere to this?


Standard notice is 4 weeks so if you took a 6 week break 3 weeks into care you would have made this clear at the interview stage?

Did 4 weeks prior to her holiday fall whilst you were away?


You need to have a two way communication about care - as childminders the hardest part of our jobs is the financial side - but is a job and in return we expect to get paid in full (subject to t&c) and on time just as you expect your employer to pay you.

We are self employed and can take holiday, sort out our own terms and conditions and if parents are unhappy with them then it is their perogative to find alternative care.

It might be quite simply that all the holiday on both sides as been taken early on in the year.

It is unfair to critize the childminder for doing something that you initially agreed to.

She is not your employee. Could you have found short term alternative care (family perhaps) for the period before your break, had your break and then started with the childminder, therefore avoiding the charge that you are unhappy about? Although she would have been within in her rights to charge you a deposit for the place, she is doing a responsible job caring for your child and enabling you to work and earn.