View Full Version : I'm furious! unregistered child minder!
Desi-101
19-07-2010, 11:40 PM
I'm fully registered! Liability insured, car insursance all the paperwork, jargon first aid, Ofsted fees, inspections etc....I live in a very small village have 1 child afterschool (8 mile round trip to collect) don't charge holidays or for food.... Have been on the verge of giving up childminding as my outgoings are more than my income! Only to find out today that the 1 child I do have goes to this OTHER childminder in the morning for school drop off but the other minder can't have her in the afternoons so I collect her as the other minder has 5 afterschool and can't fit my mindee in too (all friends of the child I mind). Mum claims tax credits for the care I give in the afternoons using my number and I am sure she claims for themorning too on my number!!!
I happened to ask what she pays the other childminder in the morning not realising she is not registered to be told £4.00 an hour!! thats when the subject came up and mum said she is unregistered thats why she needed me for my number!!! as the other minder is a lovely lady but not registered!
I am absolutely furious as this unregistered childminder and myself are the only two child minders for miles, and for the last year the children she minds would have had to come to me (am I making sense!!!) I am so angry I have worked it out that she has 5 after school at a cost of 10 per session 5 days a week! and mornings at a cost of 4 pounds per session, she lives across from the school!!! and yes the child I mind has just turned 7 but I know she has had the others since reception!
I said to my mindees mum I am a bit cross as I have had to register and do all the paperwork, fees and lay out money but she can't understand why I am upset! she said the parents all live in that village and don't want to travel to me after work! I know the head teacher knows as well that she is not registered but does alot for the school! mindees mum said to me oooh you wont report her now will you and to be honest no I would never do that but at end of day I think I have every right to be very angry as in a way its making me lose money as if she was stopped the parents would have approached me to take care of their kids.
I am so dissolusioned at the whole process as I have done it all by the BOOK and have lost out big time! I have checked out the ofsted site and if she is found out she would get a letter of warning and be told to get registered!! mmmm maybe I didn't look it up right Sarah may be alle to clear this up!
sorry for rant but am very angry and I think out of pocket too because of her!!! :mad:
How would you feel ??
Id report her no doubt about it!
ourmadhouse
20-07-2010, 04:36 AM
is she not registered because she has them all less than two hours a day??
(am i right in thinking if you have a child less than 2 hours per day you dont need to be registered???
(dont know how or why iv got that in my head)
ourmadhouse
20-07-2010, 04:38 AM
ha just us awake at this silly early hour :laughing:
marnieb
20-07-2010, 06:09 AM
If she's getting paid then she needs to be registered it doesn't matter if it's only for 2 hours.
But yes, report her today!!!!
singlewiththree
20-07-2010, 06:22 AM
I personally wouldn't report her as mum has said that and they will know it has come from you and then you wont get any more mindees.
The Juggler
20-07-2010, 06:26 AM
If she's getting paid then she needs to be registered it doesn't matter if it's only for 2 hours.
But yes, report her today!!!!
how old are the children. Are they over 8?
blue bear
20-07-2010, 06:40 AM
what about talking to the childminder? ask her about registration she may not realise what she is doing is wrong, (you never know lol) as she is getting lots of custom she might be able to send some your way.
It's not fair she has no lay out charges, the children are not covered by insurance, no jumping through hoops for her.
Only you can decide whether to report or not.
If she's getting paid then she needs to be registered it doesn't matter if it's only for 2 hours.
But yes, report her today!!!!
I thought that you can still get paid, but only for upto 2 hours - literally to the minute, one minute past that and you'd be breaking the law. This is what I was told by my course tutor when I was training, but I guess things change all the time.
I'd still report her, but as mentioned before, it'll be obvious to everyone who did the reporting! Catch 22 situation!
sweets
20-07-2010, 06:51 AM
i would wait a couple of months or so then report her anonomously, so it doesnt look so obvious. or even have a word with her and tell her to get registered and why.
sonia ann
20-07-2010, 06:52 AM
is she not registered because she has them all less than two hours a day??
(am i right in thinking if you have a child less than 2 hours per day you dont need to be registered???
(dont know how or why iv got that in my head)
I thought this was true irrespective of whether you are paid or not:)
miffy
20-07-2010, 06:52 AM
It's a difficult situation for you - if you report her now it will be obvious where it has come from. As you rightly say, Ofsted will only encourage her to register properly anyway so you are unlikely to put her out of business and even if she decides not to register it doesn't mean the parents who use her will come to you and they will know who reported her.
Miffy xx
as this other minder is doing mornings and afternoons i could guess that she's looking after them for more than 2 hours a day
heatherw
20-07-2010, 07:01 AM
If it was me I would have to report her. I know it would be obvisious where it came from but what is the point in us doing everything the proper way, being registered, insured and all the necessary paperwork that comes with it, if she can't be bothered to get registered and gets away with it. I wouldn't be bothered about taking on her eisting mindees but any future mindees may go to her instead. I would definately report her. If it was an unlicensed doctor they would be reported so why not an unregistered childminder?
PixiePetal
20-07-2010, 07:16 AM
As it will be obvious it is you who reported, I would speak to the mum, tell her it is illegal (if over 2 hours?) and it has put you in a position to report her.
If the other mindees she has are under 8 then she would be working illegally anyway and using your number to claim for other 'minder' is fraud I would say.
sandy64
20-07-2010, 07:17 AM
hi what really needs thinking off is a. shes no insurance b.shes undercutting you and doing no legal requirements. so lo arent protected. c. why shud she be able to do this her way our life would be easy if we could run our buisness as a babysitter, but there are good reasons why we are better highly qualified proffesionals. so do the right thing for all other c.m. you could have a chat with your local d.w then let her deal with it if that makes it easier for you.
i totally understand why youre angry i would be too.but it will go on if not stopped.:)
Carol M
20-07-2010, 07:21 AM
I would report her. She has your mindee in the mornings and you have a duty of care to that child,that child is at risk. If she is not registered therefore has no insurance and is being paid she is also breaking the law. I can't believe she doesn't know what she is doing is illegal what with recent media. I would also be putting mum straight re tax credits and using your number fraudulently and the possible repercussions for her!
Head up high, you are the professional REGISTERED CHILDMINDER.
Carol xx
If the other mindees she has are under 8 then she would be working illegally anyway and using your number to claim for other 'minder' is fraud I would say.
the lo that the poster looks after is only 7 and he goes to this unregistered minder :thumbsup:
PixiePetal
20-07-2010, 07:26 AM
the lo that the poster looks after is only 7 and he goes to this unregistered minder :thumbsup:
missed that bit when I read it before. Well in that case - report!
no insurance etc, gives CM a bad name
Mookins
20-07-2010, 07:26 AM
thats terrible...not only are the parents lazy good for nothings...(not wanting to travel a bit) they all know she is un registered therefore risking there darling children!!!
id say report her...if you are the only other CM they will soon come banging on your door for care!
do it quick though as the mother you spoke to will be blabbing for sure
soooo bad...id rass them up at a drop of a hat...money wise id be furious but being used as her scape goat so the mother can claim tax credits would make me bloomin savage.
x x x
oh and when they come running to you you are a lot more expensive than you are now!
snufflepuff
20-07-2010, 07:34 AM
I think the lack of insurance would be the biggest issue for me, and for that reason i would report her. The children are not safe if she is not insured.
I'd also be tempted to report the mother for using your reg number fraudulently but we all know tax credits probably couldnt care less!
I wouldn't be worried about the children coming to you instead- do you really want to be working with parents who obviously don't care enough about their childrens welfare to send them to a registered minder??
moljak
20-07-2010, 07:35 AM
I think you need to report her.I understand your predicament and as I live in a small village know how hard it would be to do this.
Is there someone else you know, maybe a friend who would be willing to report her for you.Then if it comes back to you you can truthfully say it wasn't you.
It's all so tricky and I'm sure this lady is a lovely lady and the parents must be happy with the care their children recieve but the childcare register was brought in for this purpose.She might just need the push to register and make things legal.
Hope it gets sorted.
Dare4Distance
20-07-2010, 07:42 AM
I'd report them both TBH.
The "childminder" is breaking the law. Who cares if they know you reported her, that's a good thing. You're looking out for the safety of their children! She could be anyone if she doesn't have a CRB.
I'd report the parent too for benefit fraud :rolleyes:
Ripeberry
20-07-2010, 08:29 AM
I'm surrounded by un-registered minders and ad-hoc nannies and what they do is their business. I registered to make sure that I was doing everything by the book and covered myself for every eventuality.
What makes me angry about un-registered people is that they don't get reported to Ofsted and if they do, they don't punish them, whereas we get suspended, investigated and stressed out.
At the end of the day, it's the parent's decision and if they choose to use un-registered care, then that speaks volumes about their values :angry:
brightstar
20-07-2010, 09:03 AM
I would report her. Your mindees mum may have kindly given this woman your reg no. so that all the other mums can claim on your no iyswim. This could end up with you in hot water with the tax man. It is totally wrong and dangerous for the LO's she minds. She or other residents in her home haven't been CRB checked (omg), theres no insurance, no proof of quality of care and she's probably not declaring her income. I am a b***h and would report her without hesitation. All children come first, whether it be my mindees or other LO's. And she has more or less said she's using you for your reg no :eek:
wellybelly
20-07-2010, 09:14 AM
Report her to ofsted and tax credits. She and the mum is breaking the law and so what if they know it's come from you. It's wrong and after hours of paper work and slogging to do things by the book you are the one who is being taken for the biggest ride here.
chibault
20-07-2010, 09:18 AM
Crikey, what a neetmare!
If it was me, I would go and meet this lady with a cmdo at her house, so it's on her territory and with someone more neutral. Explain why she needs to register. Also explain how it's been effecting your business too as it's unfair competition and you wouldn't mind competing against another registered cm.
Then she is reported you have been open and fair about it and if anyone asks you, you can explain yourself. The cmdo should be the one who reports her though. I would ask the cmdo to make it clear that they are reporting, not you.
Re the mum, give her a letter and explain, now she has told you how she is using your number for the unreg'd cm, that you are culpable too now if anyone should discover what she is doing, so she must only claim for the hours the child is with you.
Good luck with what you decide to do and let us know how you get on.
Hoping that things will improve for you soon!
becky
FussyElmo
20-07-2010, 11:22 AM
Oh course you could ring the tax man and benefits agency becuae if she isn't admiting that she is working they will be very interested.....more so than ofsted because they will want their money back :)
crazyhazy
20-07-2010, 11:26 AM
Oh course you could ring the tax man and benefits agency becuae if she isn't admiting that she is working they will be very interested.....more so than ofsted because they will want their money back :)
That's exactly what I was thinking!
flora
20-07-2010, 11:35 AM
I know you are p'd off and rightly so.
I would tackle the mum about frauduently using you number, you can get pulled up about this.
I wouldn't report her, I live in a small village too and I can tell you if this happened here when the s**t hit the fan the repurcussions would be hideous. There is also no gurantee the kids would come your way either and if she is popular future kids could not come your way as mud sticks.
I know we have to adhere to all the rules, regs etc etc, but unless you feel the kids are truly in mortal peril I would leave it alone.
ChocolateChip
20-07-2010, 04:51 PM
This must be so hard for you, I would be fuming too and wanting to get on the phone straightaway but maybe 'slowly slowly catchee monkee' might be the way to go.
This might sound a bit two-faced and you're probably too nice to do it but how about making friends with her, try to get a bit of extra business your way, wait a few months and then get someone else to dob her in anonymously, then she won't suspect you :D
(sorry everyone, pinched all the other replies and put them together, lol)
Or do a load of flyers shouting out the fact that you are registered, insured, eligible for tax credits, - did I read that you were cheaper than her aswell?- and hand them out everywhere but particularly at school. That might sway a few.
What exactly does she do for the school so much? Can't believe they are condoning what she is doing, the head must know its illegal, I'm sure the LEA wouldn't be too impressed to find that an illegal trader is so involved with the school, surely that's a safeguarding issue!
HomefromHome
20-07-2010, 05:18 PM
ring tax credits.
explain you are a cm and that you think your number is be3ing used for fraud - they can check how many parents (!) are claiming on your ey number and for what hours!
i think it'd be hard for you if you reported her as its a small village and if you do it anon they may not do anything at all.
Andrea08
20-07-2010, 05:58 PM
ring tax credits.
explain you are a cm and that you think your number is be3ing used for fraud - they can check how many parents (!) are claiming on your ey number and for what hours!
i think it'd be hard for you if you reported her as its a small village and if you do it anon they may not do anything at all.
good point say you dont have full details but you think your no. is being used by parents not using your services.. HMRC could do a check and its up to them to claim moneys bk etc
the other unregistered cm... well in a small village i would keep quiet as flora said you have to live there after the fact!!!
be proud of the extra work you do and advertise in other areas etc stating you are ofsted registered and insured ... parents may not know all the details
(((Huggz)))
Desi-101
20-07-2010, 10:44 PM
I was furious yesterday when I wrote the post, thanks all for being on this site and being a place to vent, query and get support etc...don't know what I would do as dh and 17 yr old DD don't understand and say I am ranting!! but dh changed his tune when I worked out the profits I could have made
I have decided I will not report her.
She used to help out with the after school club so does have a CRB and thats all!
She still helps out voluntarily at the school with the young ones with reading, all her kids are grown up but she is lovely and helps out.. so she is a lovely lady.
She lives in a beautiful home which is more than adequate, actually very posh stone built home so Ofsted would not object to the provisions she provides. I would use her at face value if she was registered and may have used her if I was unaware of the rules set out by Ofsted.
The 5 children she minds are the 5 from the afterschool club which closed down a year ago referred by the head teacher. I got the 6th child as Mrs "S" decided she could only handle 5 in her home and two others now stay home with mum who is running her own business.
SO...after very long and hard consideration I have decided to tactfully approach the head teacher (whom I see on a daily basis and chat to on occasion!) and inform her that mrs "S" is not registered and that I would not personally report her but someone may well do and if she could please suggest to mrs "S" that she get registered. I think this is the best way forward.
I'm just angry as I may well have had some of those kids being registered and have calculated my loss at the end of the day! and think why did I bother to register.
I will phone tax credits just to let them know the hours I do on my ofsted registration number as I have a feeling another mum is using my number as well. I have done my tax return online but not pressed the send button yet will do so soon as things I forgot to claim keep coming to me i.e all the ink I have used in my printer and is £38 to get more refills!!
On a positive note I have signed up a little boy for Sep from a different school and am signing 2nd little girl this thurs and have had 3 enquiries from school association from school which use mrs "S" and am smiling and turning them down as I don't have spaces! Also current mum has agreed to pay me summer holidays to keep mindees space open so have turned away a little girl for sep and feel bad as her mum now doesn't know what to do for child care and I don't have space in car!!! soz for long post but its now all off my chest.. love DH but they don't listen :)
Thanks D
flora
21-07-2010, 09:21 AM
For what it's worth sweetie I think you are doing the right thing :thumbsup:
Carol M
21-07-2010, 02:17 PM
I'm glad you have come to this decision. She is obviously a nice lady but the issue needed to be approached. I do hope the head is as sensitive about it as you and that she does not ignore the situation.
Carol x
ChocolateChip
22-07-2010, 09:09 AM
It's nice to hear that you are feeling a bit better about it, you have done the right thing. Glad to hear you are getting more business aswell, things are looking up!
:laughing:
The Juggler
22-07-2010, 09:54 AM
I know you are p'd off and rightly so.
I would tackle the mum about frauduently using you number, you can get pulled up about this.
I wouldn't report her, I live in a small village too and I can tell you if this happened here when the s**t hit the fan the repurcussions would be hideous. There is also no gurantee the kids would come your way either and if she is popular future kids could not come your way as mud sticks.
I know we have to adhere to all the rules, regs etc etc, but unless you feel the kids are truly in mortal peril I would leave it alone.
I agree, I'm not in a small village and even here I wouldn't report unless a child was in danger as everyone would know it was me. The 'lax' minders know exactly what I think of these practices and although there are lots of new, by the book minders, they'd know it was me. Life wouldn't be worth living. In a small village you'd be known as the woman that bankrupt her as she had to pay back all that tax. It's just not worth it :panic:
If she was deceiving the mum, then i'd tell the mum but the mum knows, her choice hon.
EvieT
22-07-2010, 04:55 PM
Childminders must apply for registration if they intend to provide care for one or more children aged from birth to eight years where at least one individual child attends for a total of more than two hours. They cannot provide care before they receive their certificate.
Childminders may choose to register if they intend to provide care for children aged from eight up to the age of 18 on domestic premises for two or more hours in any one day, or for a period less than two hours where this includes care immediately before or immediately after school hours.
Just thought I would copy and paste this from the OFSTED website to clarify the position abit for you.
If she is minding for less than 2 hours per day, she is not obliged to become registered.
Having said that - it is extremely infuriating that parents can use our registration number to claim child credits to pay for childcare elsewhere. :huh: This is something that tax credits rarely check up on and they may or may not act on information you give them, but its worth a try. The more of us who complain - the more likely it is the system will change.
I have often had parents who will apply for childcare for a short period of time - just to be able to use your number - and then leave! Although it is something that is difficult to prove - you know they are using the money to pay for unregistered childcare elsewhere or family