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ourmadhouse
16-07-2010, 10:37 PM
I was at a nursery drop off today (same nursery as my lo) two boys playing with plastic guns and my minded lo was given one to play with by one of the boys (I took the minded lo to one side an reminded lo that mummy doesnt like him to play with guns and could he please give it back. Not a problem from my minded lo he handed it back no questions (i was very proud of my minded lo for this and praised him)

I then got a look from another mum who then asked 'doesnt she let him play with guns'

I told her no, but then again i dont give any of mine a gun to play with.

Why she asks, . . . its not like they are going to hurt anybody. (and looks around the other mums for support) :eek:

i just said 'its prefrence, everyones different'

I was fine when i gave that responce but now its playing over in my mind, how rude of her to judge others.

Ali56
16-07-2010, 10:55 PM
Well Done you is all i can say!!:clapping: :clapping: I feel exactly the same and there are no guns in our house, my son (now 17) didn't miss them and neither do my mindees. I dislike such little ones playing games like that. I know that everyone has different opinions but she should respect you for yours in the same way as you do hers.

Ali x

miffy
16-07-2010, 11:26 PM
I wouldn't give it another moment's thought - that was her opinion but it isn't yours!

Miffy xx

ajs
17-07-2010, 06:56 AM
i never allowed them to play with guns either and if the children made play guns with say lego we would have a chat about how guns where not toys but very dangerous and that we don't play killing games in my house

i am sure lots of people disagreee with me.

but i think you're right and i wouldn't worry about it

Pedagog
17-07-2010, 07:17 AM
Mine have had toy guns, but have also as they got older learned to use real guns responsibly.
I have no guns in the childminding toys, but the boys still make them or just pretend.

Well done for standing up for your principles.

ourmadhouse
17-07-2010, 07:38 AM
just felt like a bit of a dig at my parenting (more than anything) an to be fair maybe she did too and thats why she looked for support from others. . . each to their own though!
must say the other parents lo is a real sweety.

I dont feel as strongly if one of my lo's pick up a stick or something else to pretend to have a gun, i feel they must have a need for acting it out but it would be talked about, how it could make someone feel, guns can really hurt someone etc . . .

little chickee
17-07-2010, 08:17 AM
I think it was quite rude of the parent to make that comment. We all have different opinions and parenting styles and are free to make our own choices.

Wheter we allow toys guns or not (I do i think they are just a toy and will not make kids want to shoot each other for real - i do teach the difference between playacting and real life) is a personal choice and i dont know why she felt she had to comment on it.

Maybe she was just looking to justify allowing her kids to have them.

Dare4Distance
17-07-2010, 10:08 AM
How rude!

I wont allow toy guns in my house. My nephew is always saying he has a gun and is "killing people" and I think it's just wrong. He's 3, he shouldn't be running around saying he's killing people. I don't get why children need to play with toy guns. Guns are used by the very select few in our country, it's not really like it's something they're necessarily going to see when they get older. I'd rather teach them that guns aren't for children and aren't toys. Guns are used to kill. I wouldn't let children run around pretending to play with a knife and pretending to stab each other, same thing in my book.

LOOPYLISA
17-07-2010, 10:17 AM
How rude!

I wont allow toy guns in my house. My nephew is always saying he has a gun and is "killing people" and I think it's just wrong. He's 3, he shouldn't be running around saying he's killing people. I don't get why children need to play with toy guns. Guns are used by the very select few in our country, it's not really like it's something they're necessarily going to see when they get older. I'd rather teach them that guns aren't for children and aren't toys. Guns are used to kill. I wouldn't let children run around pretending to play with a knife and pretending to stab each other, same thing in my book.

:thumbsup:

The Juggler
17-07-2010, 01:48 PM
I don't have a problem with guns, toy ones, ones made of lego or sticks as long as kids play appropriately with them. Gives a chance to talk about how dangerous guns are.

However, I DO think this parent was extremely rude. Everyone is entitled to their view.

Hebs
17-07-2010, 02:42 PM
i have never had a problem with toy guns, and studies show it is BENEFICIAL to a childs development

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7163741.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504992/Why-boys-allowed-play-toy-guns.html

onceinabluemoon
17-07-2010, 02:45 PM
How rude!

I wont allow toy guns in my house. My nephew is always saying he has a gun and is "killing people" and I think it's just wrong. He's 3, he shouldn't be running around saying he's killing people. I don't get why children need to play with toy guns. Guns are used by the very select few in our country, it's not really like it's something they're necessarily going to see when they get older. I'd rather teach them that guns aren't for children and aren't toys. Guns are used to kill. I wouldn't let children run around pretending to play with a knife and pretending to stab each other, same thing in my book.

Quite agree!

I also do not let mindees bring in DS/Gameboy games that involve killing anything. They are welcome to play with them at home and I wouldn't dream of saying otherwise, that's their parent's prerogative, but not in this house.

kindredspirits
17-07-2010, 02:47 PM
i think you can get a study to 'prove' anything these days - especially from the BBC who are total and utter con merchants.
Personally I don't like killing games - we do play with water guns though so i think thats a fair balance. :thumbsup:

onceinabluemoon
17-07-2010, 02:50 PM
i have never had a problem with toy guns, and studies show it is BENEFICIAL to a childs development

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7163741.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504992/Why-boys-allowed-play-toy-guns.html

interesting that the government thinks it's beneficial for *boys* to play with guns and yet the people who are with them on a day to day basis say that it causes aggression. I'd put my money on the people who actually interact with the kids rather than the bureaucrats in parliament who probably go off for a days clay pigeon shooting at the weekend, unlike the rest of us, lol! ;)

Hebs
17-07-2010, 03:13 PM
I think its another "nanny state " thing

Let boys be boys!

Dare4Distance
17-07-2010, 04:02 PM
Why do the articles only focus on boys? Girls don't play with toy guns too?

Those of you that think it's ok for children to play with toy guns, would you allow them to play with toy knives and pretend to stab each other? or have things like those candy cigarettes and pretend to smoke them? It's all the same in my eyes :rolleyes: There's nothing positive about a gun so I don't see why they need to play with them. IMO

Chatterbox Childcare
17-07-2010, 04:03 PM
Boys will be boys but mum should be more respectful to your wishes I think

Hebs
17-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Why do the articles only focus on boys? Girls don't play with toy guns too?

Those of you that think it's ok for children to play with toy guns, would you allow them to play with toy knives and pretend to stab each other? or have things like those candy cigarettes and pretend to smoke them? It's all the same in my eyes :rolleyes: There's nothing positive about a gun so I don't see why they need to play with them. IMO

yes and swords :thumbsup:

Chatterbox Childcare
17-07-2010, 04:18 PM
Mine play with dolls. toys, cars etc regardless of sex - it is all equality here. They even have knives to eat with at meal times! (sorry couldn't resist)

Dare4Distance
17-07-2010, 04:30 PM
Knives to eat with is totally different to knives to pretend to stab each other with :rolleyes:

Dare4Distance
17-07-2010, 04:31 PM
yes and swords :thumbsup:

You'd let a child pretend to smoke? :confused:

Hebs
17-07-2010, 04:34 PM
You'd let a child pretend to smoke? :confused:

i was refering to knives :thumbsup:

Hebs
17-07-2010, 04:38 PM
it's almost like saying that kids who play racing games in toy cars go on to be boy racers :rolleyes:

if you dont allow them to play with them, then you are fueling their interest, at least if they do plasy with them you can use it as an opportunity to advise them about the dangers.

and for kids like my oldest mindee and my son, who use their hands (pointing fingers etc) then how would you advise me to take these away from them?
;)

karen m
17-07-2010, 04:59 PM
don't have guns in my housemy eldest is 30 and did him no harm not have a toy gun,1 minded child recently started using any toy to pretend it was a gun told him only soldiers have guns and that is to keep us all safe and very rare he mentions them now

Hebs
17-07-2010, 06:01 PM
don't have guns in my housemy eldest is 30 and did him no harm not have a toy gun,1 minded child recently started using any toy to pretend it was a gun told him only soldiers have guns and that is to keep us all safe and very rare he mentions them now

my brother is 40 this year and was always playing games (cowboys and indiands/army men etc) ended up in the royal navy and it has never done him any harm either :thumbsup: :D ;)

kindredspirits
17-07-2010, 06:35 PM
my brother is 40 this year and was always playing games (cowboys and indiands/army men etc) ended up in the royal navy and it has never done him any harm either :thumbsup: :D ;)

thats debatable really. :rolleyes:

Beckieboo
17-07-2010, 06:39 PM
I have twin boys who are 7 years old, they go on the park, with their friends and they all play army!
My childrens cousin is in the TA, they have another who want to join the army and they see the soldiers fighting in Afghanistan and coming home and also those who are returning after being killed in action.
I feel this is a big part of our lives at the moment and i talk to my children about what is going on, what an excellent job the soldiers are doing and they ask any questions.
I think my children are playing "army" with their friends, not gun wielding thugs in training! I feel education is key and they show a healthy interest in all aspects of the armed forces and this is them letting off excess energy, team building, making friends and enjoying their childhood!

Just my opinion! :)

Hebs
17-07-2010, 06:40 PM
thats debatable really. :rolleyes:

excuse me???

what are you trying to imply? :rolleyes:

Hebs
17-07-2010, 06:41 PM
I have twin boys who are 7 years old, they go on the park, with their friends and they all play army!
My childrens cousin is in the TA, they have another who want to join the army and they see the soldiers fighting in Afghanistan and coming home and also those who are returning after being killed in action.
I feel this is a big part of our lives at the moment and i talk to my children about what is going on, what an excellent job the soldiers are doing and they ask any questions.
I think my children are playing "army" with their friends, not gun wielding thugs in training! I feel education is key and they show a healthy interest in all aspects of the armed forces and this is them letting off excess energy, team building, making friends and enjoying their childhood!

Just my opinion! :)

well said Beckieboo :thumbsup:

ourmadhouse
17-07-2010, 06:45 PM
like i said i dont mind so much if they use a stick, lego or their fingers. its part of make play/ imagination but i will not hand over a plastic gun to a child. :panic:

some do look real . . . and although this is pushing it a fair bit, walk into a bank with a toy gun you still get charged as though it was a real one.

we have all seen in the news that even young children can get their hands on real guns.

imagination paly is not bad thing (using the chance to talk about guns and explain is how i justify it to myself)

i didnt realize just how much this was a sencitive subject, but like i said im happy with what i do, just dont judge others :thumbsup:

Beckieboo
17-07-2010, 06:55 PM
I realise this is a sensitive issue, and it is very much each to their own, but i must stress that this is my children only, i do not allow guns whilst i am minding and my children know they can only play it when i am not minding. This is because i think it is up to every parent to make their own choice and sometimes it isnt appropriate with an age range of ages, so it is easier to say no whilst minding!!:)

Hebs
17-07-2010, 07:00 PM
my little mindees dont play any voilent games, but my 11 year old mindee and my son do play fight (wrestling type games)

i do not mind my son playing these things, :thumbsup:

little chickee
17-07-2010, 07:03 PM
yes and swords :thumbsup:

I'm agreeing - kids can and do learn and know the difference between playing and real life. I was a total tomboy and was forever playing with guns and toy swords etc - didnt turn me into a serial killer.

My youngest 2 boys (10 & 7) are obsessed with playing "army" and have a range of toy guns - also the dart guns that fire the foam "bullets" I see it as a positive as it gets them out side running about and working together as a team.

They are both real pacifists though and have both said they do not want to join the army when thay are older in case they have to shoot people.

Hebs
17-07-2010, 07:06 PM
I'm agreeing - kids can and do learn and know the difference between playing and real life. I was a total tomboy and was forever playing with guns and toy swords etc - didnt turn me into a serial killer.

My youngest 2 boys (10 & 7) are obsessed with playing "army" and have a range of toy guns - also the dart guns that fire the foam "bullets" I see it as a positive as it gets them out side running about and working together as a team.

They are both real pacifists though and have both said they do not want to join the army when thay are older in case they have to shoot people.

:clapping:
well my 10 year old son wants to be a forensic psychologist when he's older, he wants to SOLVE crimes not comit them :rolleyes:

kindredspirits
17-07-2010, 07:13 PM
excuse me???

what are you trying to imply? :rolleyes:

its just a matte of personal opinion - makes the world go round :D i see playing 'army' as being the same as gun weilding thugs as we are currently occupying parts of the world that have nowt to do with us than making the government profit.

Hebs
17-07-2010, 07:17 PM
its just a matte of personal opinion - makes the world go round :D i see playing 'army' as being the same as gun weilding thugs as we are currently occupying parts of the world that have nowt to do with us than making the government profit.

tell that to a deceased army mans family :rolleyes:

and we ARE there for a reason, :rolleyes:

kindredspirits
17-07-2010, 07:20 PM
i feel sorry for their families, and even sorry for the army man themselves for believing that they are out there to do a good thing - but i feel far more sympathy for the iraqi's and afghans that have had their lives turned upside for one reason - profit for government contractors.
those who still believe that we are there as a result of terrorist attacks want to watch 9/11 ripple effect and 7/7 ripple effect - both available on youtube - very illuminating. :thumbsup:

Hebs
17-07-2010, 07:22 PM
so you believe some media hype but not others?

:rolleyes:

kindredspirits
17-07-2010, 07:24 PM
the BBC reported that 'tower 7' had collapsed about 10 minutes before it did collapse - how you can trust anything that they say after that I do not know. You can physically see the tower standing behind the reporter :rolleyes: - just one of the many proofs that it was not the result of jet fuel burning at impossibly high temps.

Hebs
17-07-2010, 07:28 PM
and it couldnt have been something that he misheard therefore misreported?

oh yeah cos that never happenes does it :rolleyes:

like you said earlier.......

i think you can get a study to 'prove' anything these days

same goes for media reports, anything can be twisted to back a different view point :rolleyes:

Beckieboo
17-07-2010, 07:33 PM
The soldiers are doing a fantastic job and must be supported! I am very proud of our armed forces and will support them 100%, They will always be heroes to us, not "Knife wielding thugs" imo :rolleyes:

Hebs
17-07-2010, 07:38 PM
The soldiers are doing a fantastic job and must be supported! I am very proud of our armed forces and will support them 100%, They will always be heroes to us, not "Knife wielding thugs" imo :rolleyes:

I am VERY proud of each and every one of them, including my sister and my 2 brother in laws

I also FULLY agree with the reasons why we are there, the fact that local people welcome them with open arms, have kids giving them their sweets (if they have them) men trying to kiss an army mans feet as they are so happy they are there :( how sad that people can't see past the media reports :rolleyes:

haribo
17-07-2010, 08:03 PM
the BBC reported that 'tower 7' had collapsed about 10 minutes before it did collapse - how you can trust anything that they say after that I do not know. You can physically see the tower standing behind the reporter :rolleyes: - just one of the many proofs that it was not the result of jet fuel burning at impossibly high temps.

there is something really weird about this i agree . my hubs watches these videos and he thinks we have been manipulated in a huge way :(

wendywu
17-07-2010, 08:30 PM
I will hear nothing said against our armed forces, not the ones who died in past wars or the brave lads who died in present wars. They are all Heros.:)

Strange but years ago all children played cowboys and indians, GI Joe and Lost in Space games, roman soldiers, with all manner of guns and knives and swords.

Yet the youth had respect, self control, a sense of community, morals and above all honour.

Today they dont play with any of these toys but the streets are infested with sick weapon wielding muderous thugs.

I dont pretend to know the answer, but i do know that what we are doing is so not working:(

jellytot
17-07-2010, 08:34 PM
I will hear nothing said against our armed forces, not the ones who died in past wars or the brave lads who died in present wars. They are all Heros.:)

Strange but years ago all children played cowboys and indians, GI Joe and Lost in Space games, roman soldiers, with all manner of guns and knives and swords.

Yet the youth had respect, self control, a sense of community, morals and above all honour.

Today they dont play with any of these toys but the streets are infested with sick weapon wielding muderous thugs.

I dont pretend to know the answer, but i do know that what we are doing is so not working:(

:thumbsup: you said that so much better than I could of x

Hebs
17-07-2010, 08:48 PM
I will hear nothing said against our armed forces, not the ones who died in past wars or the brave lads who died in present wars. They are all Heros.:)

Strange but years ago all children played cowboys and indians, GI Joe and Lost in Space games, roman soldiers, with all manner of guns and knives and swords.

Yet the youth had respect, self control, a sense of community, morals and above all honour.

Today they dont play with any of these toys but the streets are infested with sick weapon wielding muderous thugs.

I dont pretend to know the answer, but i do know that what we are doing is so not working:(



VERY VERY well said wendy :clapping:

Dare4Distance
17-07-2010, 08:53 PM
Just because you're in the army it doesn't make you a hero. I don't agree with the war at all. Our soldiers aren't fighting for our country. This doesn't mean they're bad, they have a job to do and are doing it to the best of their abilities. But I don't have to support the war, the soldiers or the government that sent them there. Obviously I feel bad for anyone who's son/daughter/husband/wife/mother/father dies out there though, they are dying for no reason.

misst104
17-07-2010, 08:53 PM
I will hear nothing said against our armed forces, not the ones who died in past wars or the brave lads who died in present wars. They are all Heros.:)

Strange but years ago all children played cowboys and indians, GI Joe and Lost in Space games, roman soldiers, with all manner of guns and knives and swords.

Yet the youth had respect, self control, a sense of community, morals and above all honour.

Today they dont play with any of these toys but the streets are infested with sick weapon wielding muderous thugs.

I dont pretend to know the answer, but i do know that what we are doing is so not working:(



Well said, that girl!!!! :thumbsup:

x jo

Hebs
17-07-2010, 08:56 PM
Just because you're in the army it doesn't make you a hero. I don't agree with the war at all. Our soldiers aren't fighting for our country. This doesn't mean they're bad, they have a job to do and are doing it to the best of their abilities. But I don't have to support the war, the soldiers or the government that sent them there. Obviously I feel bad for anyone who's son/daughter/husband/wife/mother/father dies out there though, they are dying for no reason.

thats your view, but not mine :thumbsup:

thats the reason why we have debates cos boy wou;dnt it be a boring place if we all agreed on everything?

and sorry but they ARE heros :thumbsup:

Gherkin
17-07-2010, 09:00 PM
I will hear nothing said against our armed forces, not the ones who died in past wars or the brave lads who died in present wars. They are all Heros.:)

Strange but years ago all children played cowboys and indians, GI Joe and Lost in Space games, roman soldiers, with all manner of guns and knives and swords.

Yet the youth had respect, self control, a sense of community, morals and above all honour.

Today they dont play with any of these toys but the streets are infested with sick weapon wielding muderous thugs.

I dont pretend to know the answer, but i do know that what we are doing is so not working:(

DITTO

Both of my children have played with guns (ds/dd) and I talk to them about how they are to respect them and understand the damage that they do. I also used to work in a gun shop and have a very healthy respect for guns. I know and have known many military personel and they are doing their job. We should supprt them even if we do not agree with the politics.

ORKSIE
17-07-2010, 09:05 PM
they ARE heros :thumbsup:

They are all heros!!!!!.
It is the job they chose, they know the risks, thats what makes them heros.
They dont ask to be deployed to these places they are TOLD where they are to be deployed.

These men and women have my utmost respect.

Hebs
17-07-2010, 09:06 PM
They are all heros!!!!!.
It is the job they chose, they know the risks, thats what makes them heros.
They dont ask to be deployed to these places they are TOLD where they are to be deployed.

These men and women have my utmost respect.

exactly

same as the police, fire fighters etc

they go into a job knowing it could potentially put their life in danger but they do it to protect US.

wendywu
17-07-2010, 09:09 PM
[
QUOTE=Dare4Distance;747165]Just because you're in the army it doesn't make you a hero. I

It makes you more of a hero than the low life scum that walk the streets at the moment.

It makes you a hero because you took an oath and are honouring it, regardless of your views.

It makes you a hero because you stand your ground and dont run in the face of fear.

It makes you a hero because you look out for your mates as much as you look out for yourself.

It just a good job that the soliders that fought the Nazi Party in the WW11 didnt hold the view of disagreeing with war. :(

We dont live in a perfect world and i am sorry to say that somewhere in the world someone will be fighting someone.

ORKSIE
17-07-2010, 09:10 PM
exactly

same as the police, fire fighters etc

they go into a job knowing it could potentially put their life in danger but they do it to protect US.

Well said:thumbsup:

ORKSIE
17-07-2010, 09:11 PM
[

It makes you more of a hero than the low life scum that walk the streets at the moment.

It makes you a hero because you took an oath and are honouring it, regardless of your views.

It makes you a hero because you stand your ground and dont run in the face of fear.

It makes you a hero because you look out for your mates as much as you look out for yourself.

It just a good job that the soliders that fought the Nazi Party in the WW11 didnt hold the view of disagreeing with war. :(

We dont live in a perfect world and i am sorry to say that somewhere in the world someone will be fighting someone.

Absolutely x

Kimmy050983
17-07-2010, 09:14 PM
I will hear nothing said against our armed forces, not the ones who died in past wars or the brave lads who died in present wars. They are all Heros.:)

Strange but years ago all children played cowboys and indians, GI Joe and Lost in Space games, roman soldiers, with all manner of guns and knives and swords.

Yet the youth had respect, self control, a sense of community, morals and above all honour.

Today they dont play with any of these toys but the streets are infested with sick weapon wielding muderous thugs.

I dont pretend to know the answer, but i do know that what we are doing is so not working:(

Absolutely and wholeheartedly agree with this. Even my generation (and i am not so old i think at 26) was a TOTAL different kind of generation when young. we still played with our baby borns at the age of 13... we were still children then. nowadays children are little grown ups at the age of 11...it is sad.
my main goal for my son is to keep his childhood treasured for as long as i can.

ORKSIE
17-07-2010, 09:16 PM
But all said and done i do not allow any games that contain weapons of any kind.

Thats my opinion and my policy....But.. I respect everyone elses opinions:thumbsup:

wendywu
17-07-2010, 09:20 PM
[
QUOTE=ORKSIE;747192]But all said and done i do not allow any games that contain weapons of any kind. ]

I dont have any either, but looking at it i dont quite know why. :rolleyes:

Dare4Distance
17-07-2010, 09:24 PM
they go into a job knowing it could potentially put their life in danger but they do it to protect US.

Yes, correct, they are fighting to protect US. The United States. :D Not Britain. They're not fighting for Queen and Country, they're fighting for the government. Britain wasn't under threat till it got involved in American's war. If they hadn't have gotten involved then 7/7 probably wouldn't have happened.

ORKSIE
17-07-2010, 09:31 PM
[ ]

I dont have any either, but looking at it i dont quite know why. :rolleyes:

me neither...is it because of the nanny state we live in...or the worry of what OFSTED might think...I dont know. It just seems wrong to me to let LO's play at shooting and stabbing and killing each other.
xx

wendywu
17-07-2010, 09:56 PM
But then looking at it Paintballing should be banned, adults pretending to kill each other, and what about battle reenactments that take place at various shows around the country.:panic:

One argument just leads to another frame of thought.:eek:

Hebs
18-07-2010, 07:23 AM
But then looking at it Paintballing should be banned, adults pretending to kill each other, and what about battle reenactments that take place at various shows around the country.:panic:

One argument just leads to another frame of thought.:eek:

i have a paintballing party booked for my son's 11th birthday :thumbsup:

I am shocked and disgusted by the comments of some members on this forum, souldn't get any lower IMO :mad:

ajs
18-07-2010, 07:36 AM
we seem to have deviated from the point, soldiers in the army are not playing wiht guns they are trained servicemen and are doing a job.

that said i do not think that in this day and age with the last 3 months in the news right now ( raoul moat and the cumbria killer) that we should be encouraging the use of guns for fun.


having reread the whole thread before i posted hebs, jojo doesn't say that our soldiers in afghansitan aren't heroes just that being in the army doesn't automatically make you a hero.

this country should not be fighting in afghan and the soldiers should be withdrawn before another life is lost in vain

onceinabluemoon
18-07-2010, 07:39 AM
I have a reason for not letting my own or any other child play with guns in my 'house'.

My Grandfather had his brains blown out by one.

To see a child put a toy gun to another child's head and go BANG! makes me feel physically sick.

I'm sorry if my preferences offend anybody and certainly don't want to be part of any argument or bad feeling that is going on here, just wanting to explain why...

ajs
18-07-2010, 07:42 AM
I have a reason for not letting my own or any other child play with guns in my 'house'.

My Grandfather had his brains blown out by one.

To see a child put a toy gun to another child's head and go BANG! makes me feel physically sick.

I'm sorry if my preferences offend anybody and certainly don't want to be part of any argument or bad feeling that is going on here, just wanting to explain why...

oh that's awful sorry to hear that oiabm

Hebs
18-07-2010, 07:45 AM
its just a matte of personal opinion - makes the world go round :D i see playing 'army' as being the same as gun weilding thugs as we are currently occupying parts of the world that have nowt to do with us than making the government profit.

i think she does, as she goes on to slate the armed forces

:huh: why bring the forces into this?

I posted that my brother played with guns/swords etc as a child and went on to join the armed forces so it didnt do him any harm, which she disagreed with :rolleyes:

kids have played with toy guns/swords etc for centuries and hasn't turned them into manics, it's poor parenting and poor education that do the harm not the item itself :thumbsup:

Hebs
18-07-2010, 07:48 AM
and this from dare4distance

Just because you're in the army it doesn't make you a hero

:rolleyes:

sweets
18-07-2010, 08:25 AM
i don't let my mindees play with guns or bring them to my house, one did once and walked in a pointed it straight at a babies head and said BANG! it completely horrified me and i asked his mum to take it home with her which she did.

I do think there is a difference with playing with guns years ago and playing with them nowadays. Gun culture is part of our world and every day in the paper or on the news there are reports of someone being shot or stabbed, children see this and to me it makes playing with guns and knives WRONG.

I dont have too much of an issue with swords as they are not really part of our lives, we dont see them on the news i see them as more of children playing pirates, me and a friend went to a forest last week and our 4 year old mindees picked up sticks and played swords, that seemed fine. but if they had pretented they were guns i would have stopped them.

children need to be taught that guns are horrible things that kill and ruin lives.

ORKSIE
18-07-2010, 08:31 AM
I have a reason for not letting my own or any other child play with guns in my 'house'.

My Grandfather had his brains blown out by one.

To see a child put a toy gun to another child's head and go BANG! makes me feel physically sick.

I'm sorry if my preferences offend anybody and certainly don't want to be part of any argument or bad feeling that is going on here, just wanting to explain why...

Thats terrible, Blue. I am so sorry to hear this.
I would feel exactly he same:(

xx

ORKSIE
18-07-2010, 08:34 AM
we seem to have deviated from the point, soldiers in the army are not playing wiht guns they are trained servicemen and are doing a job.

that said i do not think that in this day and age with the last 3 months in the news right now ( raoul moat and the cumbria killer) that we should be encouraging the use of guns for fun.




this country should not be fighting in afghan and the soldiers should be withdrawn before another life is lost in vain


I agree:thumbsup:

Pipsqueak
18-07-2010, 09:01 AM
Since time began young children (girls and boys) have been playing with toy guns/knives/bows and arrows - pretending to be a solider, cowboy(girl), indian and so on. Its all been part of growing up. I remember a 'gang' of us from the street - we used to have cowboys and indians all summer long and strangely enough we all grew up to be pretty decent people.
However, that we in the age BEFORE very realistic video games and access to DVD's that are age inappropriate.
It was all very innocent times. I think we even played in black and white !!! lol. I cannot ever recall being told that guns kill and knives make you bleed. In saying that I grew up in a family where guns were 'respected' - my uncles went out shooting and yes I have held a real gun when i was quite young. We learnt from an early age - after being repeatedly told don't waft your (dinner) knife about it will hurt someone and when you cooked with mum, you soon learned that yes that chopping knife is blooming sharp and it CUTS and makes you bleed - not that your mum had much sympathy after telling you a zillion times and she had to chuck away all the prepped food that you had just bled over because you didn't listen!
We learnt at our parents knee because our parents TAUGHT us, we didn't learn through the media and video games.

My children have played with toy guns and knives and bow and arrows, eldest has even been paintballing and we have been laser gaming.
They are pretty well adjusted, they understand that guns and knives can be extremely dangerous - as parents we have taught them that.
I don't allow the hollywood type of blowing holes in each other type of play though - it gratitous violence.

Children, since time began will make a gun/knife/bow and arrow or other weapon out of all sorts of things - body parts, sticks, pieces of paper and pure imagination. Its how we deal with it as adults that matters.


I do think that the Armed Forces should not be bought into this discussion though. People are entitled to their opinions and I do find some comments a little offensive, although i know things gt lost in translation on a forum.
Once upon a time 70 years ago - if it wasn't for some HERO'S willing to stand up and put their lives on the line then none of us would be allowed to be expressing the opinions that we are doing - life potentially would have been extremely different. My Dad - underage at the time, my Uncles and various other family members signed up to the Armed Forces to ensure that this country and many others remained free, and I thank them for that - I also thank todays servicemen and women who CHOOSE to freely put their lives on the line and serve their country. However, this discussion is not about the Armed Services is it.

Dare4Distance
18-07-2010, 09:05 AM
and this from dare4distance

Just because you're in the army it doesn't make you a hero

:rolleyes:

Exactly. You can join the army for a week and then leave. Are you still a hero? No.

auntym
18-07-2010, 09:32 AM
If one of my mindees came in an indian outfit and another in cowboy one and played that game id be happy for that.
Trouble is they dont!
One comes in, toy gun, points it and says im gonna blow your head off!
Guess what, gun goes home!
I have small wooden old fashioned swords with cape and helmets and feel thats ok.
Kids dont always play as we use to and it is partly down to current parenting etc.
Sunday at my dads was bonanza lol, sunday now is rerun of depressing eastenders lol.
Children will play army games now as thats what is shown on news and games.
No point having a dig at soldiers, the question was not aimed at them

Hebs
18-07-2010, 09:49 AM
i actually find it fascinting that people say no to guns but dont mind swords (big knives really) and we have a bigger probalem in this country with knife crime than gun crime

sarah707
18-07-2010, 09:55 AM
There is a school of thought which says...

The Eyfs says we must follow children's interests... if we are stopping children playing games that interest them, then we are not doing this!

While I agree that pointing a gun at a baby and saying bang is unacceptable, we might use the child's actions to teach them to play in more acceptable ways with the toys they want to use rather than banning them completely.

So to the child who says bang, we say yes, a gun goes bang, when do we use guns? We then maybe read a story about a gun, look at cartoon strips where characters fall over and pop up and discuss how this is pretend.. so the child learns to appreciate the difference between real life and pretend etc.

Similarly the theorists say that children must experience risk. If we take away everything that we deem to be potentially risky from their play they are more likely to...

1. Do it behind our backs and get hurt in the process;

2. Be unaware of how to manage risk in their future lives and again get hurt.

If you want to learn more you might borrow this book from the library...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dont-play-guns-here-Superhero/dp/0335210899/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1279446885&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0335210899?ie=UTF8&tag=childminding-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0335210899">We don't play with guns here: War, Weapon and Superhero Play in the Early Years (Debating Play)</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.co.uk/e/ir?t=childminding-21&l=as2&o=2&a=0335210899" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;)

:D

Hebs
18-07-2010, 09:59 AM
thanks for the link Sarah x

Dare4Distance
18-07-2010, 10:04 AM
i actually find it fascinting that people say no to guns but dont mind swords (big knives really) and we have a bigger probalem in this country with knife crime than gun crime


and you said you'd let kids play with a toy knife and pretend to stab each other? :rolleyes:

Sword fights are different. How often do you see on the news about someone being killed with a sword? Yes, it happens now and then but not often. It's constantly on the news about someone being stabbed with a knife or shot with a gun.

2 children with a toy sword each, having a sword fight is one thing. A child with a toy knife walking up to another child and saying I'm going to kill you is something totally different. How can you not see that?

Children under a certain age don't realise that dead means dead. That killing someone means they are gone, forever. They just say it without knowing what it means. That's wrong.

wendywu
18-07-2010, 10:07 AM
[
QUOTE=Dare4Distance;747284]Exactly. You can join the army for a week and then leave. Are you still a hero? No.[/QUOTE]


Now your splitting hairs, you didnt say ....if you join the army and decide its not the job for you and then leave. THAT is a totally different thing.

Anyone who takes a job in this world that places them in danger is a Hero and the world is a better place for having them in it.

They are better people than i am and braver than i will ever be.

What is lacking in life today that was around years ago is discipline, their is no deterrent for anything.:angry:

Our whole sick attitude in this country today was summed up by the Face Book page tribute to Moat and now they have a song praising him.:censored:

Oh yes those people, the ordinary people, the back bone of Great Britian, the non Heros. Those people who are eroding away anything that remotely resembles a safe and fulfilling future for your and mine children and grand children.

Well i for one know who i will take my hat off to :thumbsup:

auntym
18-07-2010, 10:22 AM
i actually find it fascinting that people say no to guns but dont mind swords (big knives really) and we have a bigger probalem in this country with knife crime than gun crime

Hebs I dont hon. I said if they come in playing cowboys with guns then im ok with that. I also said the reason I sent a gun home due to way it was played with, in the same respect if my kids played with my toy knight swords but then started trying to stab necks and play that way I would also remove and speak about how we play.
Thats not what meant hon at all.
Im all for imaginative play, love the whole pirate, cowboy, indian, stake out games.
I have water pistols :)

wendywu
18-07-2010, 10:24 AM
Whats a stake out game ?

I dont know that one :D

kindredspirits
18-07-2010, 10:34 AM
I have my own very personal reasons for not liking the armed forces - but aside from that i do not believe that they are 'heros' anymore - during the war and conscription yes they were they truely belived that they were protecting their country - i don't think any open-minded person could argue that point anymore.

auntym
18-07-2010, 10:43 AM
Its like hide and seek but when you get found you get sprayed by the water pistol lol.
It really is all about educating the kids, but I agree with you that kids dont get disciplined same and seem to have less respect which im big on here :)
I think our troops are amazing, its not down to them where they are sent, they have a job to do.
I think they all deserve our respect.

FussyElmo
18-07-2010, 10:58 AM
Its like hide and seek but when you get found you get sprayed by the water pistol lol.
It really is all about educating the kids, but I agree with you that kids dont get disciplined same and seem to have less respect which im big on here :)
I think our troops are amazing, its not down to them where they are sent, they have a job to do.
I think they all deserve our respect.

We call that manhunt but we dont use water pistols we defend the dens/bases usually in the park when its raining. Spent the entire last summer doing that and the children loved it they climbed tress hid in bushes used sticks as guns and bow and arrows swords even had wands - to use fire and wind magic:) and shock horror we even allowed them to do girls against boys because thats what they wanted.

I wonder if they did a survey of how many people played with guns etc as children actually turned out normal compared to those who didn. Something tells me millions more normal than the minority who did.

Hebs
18-07-2010, 11:12 AM
:confused: but weren't swords used to kill before guns came along?

i dont see any issues with toy guns/swords etc, it is all about how we educate children :thumbsup:

children are exposed to violence from a very early age (some cartoons are very violent) but it is how we expose children to these things, and how we handle these things that go on to make a difference

ajs
18-07-2010, 11:16 AM
We call that manhunt but we dont use water pistols we defend the dens/bases usually in the park when its raining. Spent the entire last summer doing that and the children loved it they climbed tress hid in bushes used sticks as guns and bow and arrows swords even had wands - to use fire and wind magic:) and shock horror we even allowed them to do girls against boys because thats what they wanted.

I wonder if they did a survey of how many people played with guns etc as children actually turned out normal compared to those who didn. Something tells me millions more normal than the minority who did.

the reason i don't allow guns in my house is not because i am worried the children are going to grow up into psychopaths , because i know the likely hood of that happening is very slight but because i don't think killing people or even to pretend to kill is a game, and i will ask the children to stop playing killing if that's what they are doing.

i do not have any older children in the hols other than my 8 yr old mindee but i only have her for 3 days the whole holiday and she is not the type to play war games anyway so it isn't really an issue for me but i did not allow my own children to play war games either.
I just do not want anyone in my house holding a toy gun or even a lego tower up to anyone and saying bang you're dead.

ajs
18-07-2010, 11:18 AM
and i would feel the same way with a sword if it was used like this.

i do have one in the dressing up box but my little ones aren't particualrly into the pirate stuff at the moment so again not really an issue for me

FussyElmo
18-07-2010, 11:26 AM
the reason i don't allow guns in my house is not because i am worried the children are going to grow up into psychopaths , because i know the likely hood of that happening is very slight but because i don't think killing people or even to pretend to kill is a game, and i will ask the children to stop playing killing if that's what they are doing.

i do not have any older children in the hols other than my 8 yr old mindee but i only have her for 3 days the whole holiday and she is not the type to play war games anyway so it isn't really an issue for me but i did not allow my own children to play war games either.
I just do not want anyone in my house holding a toy gun or even a lego tower up to anyone and saying bang you're dead.

But isn't that the way of the world everyone is different and has the right to thier own opinion. Neither is right neither is wrong. I dont think an less someone who doesnt allow toy guns etc and I hope I get that back in return :thumbsup:

Ps that is not aimed at you in particular

kindredspirits
18-07-2010, 11:36 AM
But isn't that the way of the world everyone is different and has the right to thier own opinion. Neither is right neither is wrong. I dont think an less someone who doesnt allow toy guns etc and I hope I get that back in return :thumbsup:


of course not - having an opinion in favour of toy guns etc does not make you a bad parent - as you say thats what makes the world go round!! there are plenty of people that wouldn't allow a 3 year old a laptop/mobile - the fact that i do doesn't make them right and me wrong or vice versa.

Chatterbox Childcare
18-07-2010, 11:54 AM
I have read this from start to finish and it has taken a while but is very interesting.

Firstly I don't think that anyone has the right to critic the armed forces of any kind. yes they chose the vocation and yes they are putting their lives on the line but how we not see them as heroes? they go into unknown territory and rescue civilians aswell as patrolling the streets. Look what they did when Sadam was brought down.

Secondly, I am appalled at any child who would walk into a house and put a gun to anyones head, let alone a babies. the damage has already been done, AT HOME and I think that is where the attention and education needs to be done, with the parents first.

Great debate but please don't let it become more than that, otherwise where did our grandparents fight for us in the first place?

little chickee
18-07-2010, 12:10 PM
I just see toy guns as just that - toys.

My boys go out into the woods directly behind my house - they know their boundaries - with their friends, split up into teams, make bases, then sneak up on each other communicating via walkie talkies, to raid each others bases, take hostages, negotiate the release of their belongings and hostages etc and can keep themselves amused all day.

They have a vast array of guns, grenades,camo netting etc and i see it all as good harmless fun.

They will not even let me kill spiders in the house, we have to catch them and put them outside, they are good kind kids and i honestly cannot see playing with toy guns turning them into psychotic serial killers.

PixiePetal
18-07-2010, 12:24 PM
Whereas I don't see all children who play with toy guns as potential murderers, I personally prefer to keep them out of my house.

My DH is a farmer and has guns himself - all regulated, locked away and licensed etc. My own kids were brought up around them and to know the dangers and rules - one of which is never to point a gun at another person.

When you have a friend who has lost a son in a tragic shooting accident, guns become serious.

For this reason alone I would be horrified if a child held a pretend gun to another ones head and said 'bang'.

Dare4Distance
18-07-2010, 12:26 PM
Has anyone actually said that playing with toy guns will turn a child into a killer? It's not appropriate for a child to pretend to kill another child. They don't need to "pretend play" that.

wendywu
18-07-2010, 12:27 PM
[[
QUOTE]QUOTE=kindredspirits;747321]I have my own very personal reasons for not liking the armed forces -

You cannot dismiss a whole concept and body of people outright because of a possible inccident or involvement with a few or an individual.:(

Its the same with the fact that i hate war or killing of any kind. But i might not agree with the principle but it does not detract from the bravery of the individual.

With toy weapons i suppose looking at it, it depends on the environment and the game played.

Because both myself and my children loved the Buzz Lightyear ride at disney where you score points by shooting evil toys with lazer guns, also the Men in Black ride at universal where you do the same with aliens. And not once did i think when we were standing in line at Disney, this is wrong because we are shooting guns.
Interesting debate because it has made me wonder why think the way i do.:rolleyes:

Mollymop
18-07-2010, 12:40 PM
It is up to you all if you let a child play with a plastic gun or not - :) :)

But I am all for it:) - let them play with guns, my dad did as did his mates as did my grandad and his brothers, as did most men in the world when they were growing up - IT IS NOT going to turn them into monsters like Roaul Moate when they are older.

Do you think the armed forces were banned from playing with toys guns when they were lads?

If you bring a child up to be respectful and to know right from wrong you have no worries.

People who shoot innocent people are monsters and have something mentally wrong with them, it is not because they played with guns when they were kids:rolleyes:

One parent of mine does not want their 7 month old boy to watch anything too girly on tv - dora, peppa pig - just in case he ends up gay when he is older:rolleyes: :mad: --------Same thing - DOn't play with guns and bow and arrows just in case they turn into monsters when older and go around killing everyone:rolleyes:

Ripeberry
18-07-2010, 12:57 PM
I will hear nothing said against our armed forces, not the ones who died in past wars or the brave lads who died in present wars. They are all Heros.:)

Strange but years ago all children played cowboys and indians, GI Joe and Lost in Space games, roman soldiers, with all manner of guns and knives and swords.

Yet the youth had respect, self control, a sense of community, morals and above all honour.

Today they dont play with any of these toys but the streets are infested with sick weapon wielding muderous thugs.

I dont pretend to know the answer, but i do know that what we are doing is so not working:(


This is where people are getting mixed up with the 'need' to keep kids away from guns.
They automatically think, that playing with guns will make their child a gangster thug who shoots other druggies :(

We are so lucky that our parents generation and our own have never known war on our own soil and that we should NEVER worry about being conscripted into the army.
Lots of people all around the world, even children don't have the choice.

I still think they should bring back national service for teenage boys, this will teach them rescpect for authority and most important of all self-discipline.

Mouse
18-07-2010, 01:08 PM
I don't have a problem with the toy guns themselves, it's how they're used that I do often have a problem with.
It's not even that I think all children playing with guns will turn into killers, because I don't believe that for one minute. I played with guns when I was little and I turned out OK!

What I really worry about is the violence that some young children display when playing fighting games (whether it's with guns or not). When I was young one of our favourite games was cops & robbers! The cops had the guns - it would never have entered our minds in those days for a robber to have a gun as well - and they'd chase after the robbers. The guns were never used to "kill". If the cop got close enough to you, you put your hands up & he took you off to prison! I don't ever remember playing at killing someone. Yes, it was playing with guns, but it was all very innocent...IYSWIM!

Nowadays though, there seems to be so much violence in the games even very small children play. It's all about killing, blood, guts & gore. There was a little boy at nursery a few weeks ago who had a toy gun with him. He was hiding behind a wall & as the children walked by he was shouting "I hate you, I'm going to blow your head off". He was laughing & saying "ha ha, you're dead, you're head's off".

Now, I really don't believe for one minute that that particular little boy will grow up to be a mass murderer, but I though what a horrible game for a 3 year old to be playing. He shouldn't be having thoughts like that at his age :panic:

I hope I have a common sense approach about it. I don't have any toy guns in my house because I personally don't like them & if a child brought one with them, I'd give it back to parents to take home. But if children make up their own game & it involves using a stick or something as a weapon, I'd let them get on with it as long as they didn't get too violent with it. Does that make sense? Maybe it's hypocritical of me to let them play some fighting games, but not others, and maybe I'm wrong in thinking you can have some innocent fighting games, but not others. It's worked for me over the years though & I'm happy to carry on that way.

ajs
18-07-2010, 01:11 PM
This is where people are getting mixed up with the 'need' to keep kids away from guns.
They automatically think, that playing with guns will make their child a gangster thug who shoots other druggies :(

We are so lucky that our parents generation and our own have never known war on our own soil and that we should NEVER worry about being conscripted into the army.
Lots of people all around the world, even children don't have the choice.

I still think they should bring back national service for teenage boys, this will teach them rescpect for authority and most important of all self-discipline.

not just for boys though, there are enough girls out there who need to be taught respect too

i am all for a civil service not military teach all children the value of money how to cook iron run a home give them some dignity and a means to earn money and i am a parent of teneagers who would all be called up for this type of service

Pipsqueak
18-07-2010, 01:12 PM
We are so lucky that our parents generation and our own have never known war on our own soil

having 'older' parents - both my parents went through the war - my dad was Royal Navy and my mum knew war on her home soil - Guernsey. Thankfully she and her family were on the last boat out, hidden in a small boat full of rotting cabbages (she hates cabbage to this day), across a very rough and dangerour channel, as the Germans arrived, her Dad remained as did many of her cousins and families. I have actual newspapers from occupation and its heartwrending to read whats in it but oddly inspirational.
From doing family history and reading war diaries that contain details of my ancestors, listening to my mum and dad (and other relatives) it hits home with me.
Reading this thread made me go back and look at the war diary transcript I have for the regiment my grandad served in as it jogged my memory and this is an excerpt from one of the attached letters home (that never made it and donated to the museum):
'.......it is really quite frightening, I was only playing with sticks pretending they were guns a few years ago with William and Joe, except of course no one really died. Now too many people are dying and its sad Mum. Sticks were fun, this is not.'

Beckieboo
18-07-2010, 01:12 PM
I still think they should bring back national service for teenage boys, this will teach them rescpect for authority and most important of all self-discipline.

Me too, now we have opened another can of worms!! lol :rolleyes:

Mouse
18-07-2010, 01:13 PM
We are so lucky that our parents generation and our own have never known war on our own soil and that we should NEVER worry about being conscripted into the army.
.

My parents were alive during the last war! Don't forget some of us are getting on a bit now ;)

Mollymop
18-07-2010, 01:21 PM
My parents were alive during the last war! Don't forget some of us are getting on a bit now ;)

Wow! I never think about that either! That's great -were they very young children?
My grandmother worked on the fields in the war effort she died when I ws 14and grandfather worked on the ships as was even a prisoner of war he died when I was a tot. Wish they were both here to tell me all about it. I would be amazed.

ourmadhouse
18-07-2010, 01:23 PM
its good to see everyones point of view and everybody has really got me thinking.


I played with my brothers potato gun whaen i was younger (not that often as i wasnt allowed to play with it, boys toys ect) and to me it was fantastic i can remember being fascinated at how i could shape the potato by digging the end in, not the fact i was able to shoot the potato gun and well it was something forbiden too.


iv also been lazer quest as a child and as an adult, can still remember my dad telling me the point of the game is to shoot eachother :eek: he did have to explaine to me that nobody got hurt and it was just lights not lazers :blush:


now paintballing is not for me. I thought it was really good fun when i did manage to hit someone but then i got hit (one hit me on my arm!) and that was enough for me, i sat the rest of the day watching.

I dont understand why anyone would be willing to get hurt.


now with the armed forces I do think they are very brave and its a job that someone has to do they have my upmost respect and they do a job i know i could never do.
I feel a little uncomfortable calling them heros though, not sure why. . . ill have to have a think and get back to you


i dont think this debate would have gone down too well if we where all in a room together though, but seeing everyones replys after they (hopefuly) have taken time to think about what each wanted to say then typed it out has given ME plenty to think about. some have made me question myself and i see that as a good thing :thumbsup:

Hebs
18-07-2010, 01:30 PM
my son has a "tatie gun" as do most of his friends,

i'm also all up for bringing back national service for males AND females :thumbsup:

FussyElmo
18-07-2010, 01:31 PM
A potato gun haven't seen one of these for years.

Now I remember my brother having an Han Solo gun and I was gutted Princess Leia didnt have one :( And he would never share it with me :(

ourmadhouse
18-07-2010, 01:46 PM
I think i would have beneited from national service, i was not scally wag or a trouble maker but i think it would eased the transition from adolescence to adulthood and gave me life skills for standing on my own two feet.
I left school at 16 went on to college and dropped out due to pregnacy. (i take full responsibility for that, i was not stupid i was well educated in that department and had a very open relationship with my mother, i knew all the in's and out's of it all, i was lazy and irresponsible)
Its like you leave school and bang your out in the big wide world on your own. college is so different you have fredom, turn up and learn or dont and they drop you.
think it could improve the social skills for our adolescents of today and help them to have a bit of pride for themselves and respect others.

Mollymop
18-07-2010, 01:49 PM
I think i would have beneited from national service, i was not scally wag or a trouble maker but i think it would eased the transition from adolescence to adulthood and gave me life skills for standing on my own two feet.
I left school at 16 went on to college and dropped out due to pregnacy. (i take full responsibility for that, i was not stupid i was well educated in that department and had a very open relationship with my mother, i knew all the in's and out's of it all, i was lazy and irresponsible)
Its like you leave school and bang your out in the big wide world on your own. college is so different you have fredom, turn up and learn or dont and they drop you.
think it could improve the social skills for our adolescents of today and help them to have a bit of pride for themselves and respect others.

Me too , I think I wuold have benefitted = I was WAS a scallywag, never bothered to turn up for school to do my GCSE's - how bad was I? My story is similar to yours. I would have hated to do NS at that age, but I would have had no choice

ourmadhouse
18-07-2010, 01:56 PM
think i would have seen it as another steping stone, like going from jr school to high school and then on to national service.
it wouldnt sort all our problems with youth of today but it would be a willing helping hand on the jurney of growing up.

wendywu
18-07-2010, 02:53 PM
[
QUOTE=Ripeberry;747372]This is where people are getting mixed up with the 'need' to keep kids away from guns.
They automatically think, that playing with guns will make their child a gangster thug who shoots other druggies :(

We are so lucky that our parents generation and our own have never known war on our own soil and that we should NEVER worry about being conscripted into the army.
Lots of people all around the world, even children don't have the choice.

I still think they should bring back national service for teenage boys, this will teach them rescpect for authority and most important of all self-discipline.[/QUOTE]

Ripe Berry i think you have got me wrong.

My point was children nowadays ARE kept away from toy guns but the situation is 100 times worse than when they did play with guns.

I used to play with a spud gun and a cap gun when i was a child and i can still remember the smell of the caps when they went off:laughing:

I bet you cannot even buy caps now:(

I think national service could be an answer to young tear aways.:D

Hebs
18-07-2010, 03:00 PM
I bet you cannot even buy caps now:(



yes you can cos my son has them too :laughing:

they still come on a little roll of paper :thumbsup:

wendywu
18-07-2010, 03:57 PM
Do they still have that lovely smell when they go off.

That takes me back a few years:laughing:

Hebs
18-07-2010, 04:29 PM
yes :thumbsup:

shelly2012
18-07-2010, 04:39 PM
The only guns i have are wee water pistols. Just my preference too nonw of the kids have asked for a gun either. Well done for speaking up :clapping:

Mookins
18-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Definition of hero

a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.


i can assure you that anyone who is in any force be it fire, army,lifegurad, TA or police are doing it with the best interests of others and are therefore a hero

My older brother is off to Afghan again on wednesday this will be his 6th time and i defy anyone who tells me he or his fellow servicemen and women are not heros

yes they have the choice to join but they do not have the choice in where they go

what they do go through and ive heard the stories when my brother has been brave enough to talk about, it is AWFUL and not one of us could handle it else we would have joined ourselves.

wendywu
18-07-2010, 05:23 PM
I take my hat off to your brother, i have always had respect for the forces past and present.

My uncle died in a Japanese POW camp. I travelled half way across the world to pay respect to him and see his grave,the one thing that my poor nan and grandad could have never hoped to do all those years ago

It was the only time some one had visited his resting place and i am so glad i did that for my family.

I cannot imagine the worry of sending one of my own off to a war zone.

The last post will always bring a lump to my throat when i hear it played. :(

kindredspirits
18-07-2010, 05:34 PM
how is fighting an illegal war (under the terms of the geneva convention) a heroic act?? i consider a hero to be someone who does something out of choice that puts themselves at risk in order to HELP people.

actually - thats beside the point, this thread was about the virtues of children playing with guns, not about the legality of the war or peoples opinions of soldiers - which is always going to be an emotive subject.

Hebs
18-07-2010, 05:41 PM
i consider a hero to be someone who does something out of choice that puts themselves at risk in order to HELP people.


thats EXACTLY what a member of the armed forces does :rolleyes:

Mookins
18-07-2010, 05:41 PM
how is fighting an illegal war (under the terms of the geneva convention) a heroic act?? i consider a hero to be someone who does something out of choice that puts themselves at risk in order to HELP people.
actually - thats beside the point, this thread was about the virtues of children playing with guns, not about the legality of the war or peoples opinions of soldiers - which is always going to be an emotive subject.

Surely the young girls and boys who join the forces that have been sent straight out to these horrific areas are heros....they chose to go out there and help the innocent instead of sitting on the streets drinking and smoking

thats choice, risky and helpful...therefore heroic

and personally i dont have toy guns in my house do not like them never have...but thats me, my choice my opinion

auntym
18-07-2010, 06:07 PM
just becuase you dont agree with why they were sent there dosnt mean they do to.
some dont agree with it but go anyway because they are true and loyal and would die to save anyone on here including the fact they dont know us!!!
HEROES

mushpea
18-07-2010, 06:26 PM
I have just finished reading this whole thread and have found it very interesting to see everyones point of views on guns.
As a kid i had a toy gun and would dress up as a cowboy and be the sherif,, I remember going to a camping meet at dodge city once where i fired a real musket gun and nearly fell over backwards in doing so ,, my Grandad was a game keeper and i used to go on the shoots with my toy gun aiming at the squirels with my toy gun when the men aimed with their real guns,, I have to amit though i didnt like the killing of the animals but was taught why it was necasery and learnt how to be responsible around guns.
I dont let the children play with toy guns and always feel a bit 'Grrr" when my partner buys my son a toy gun but then he was in the army and sees no harm in it,, he fought in the falklands and the gulf and has been to northern ireland all before he met me but i have great respect for him for this.
any way i found this thread fascinating because i never know wether its ok for them to play toy guns or not,, i dont have any actual guns here but when we are out they pick up sticks and sword fight or shoot each other,, so now when they do it, insted of stopping them i will teach them about the saftey and responsibility involved in them.

Dare4Distance
18-07-2010, 06:30 PM
I'd just like to point out that I didn't actually say there's aren't heroes in the British Army. I said that just being in the army does not make you a Hero. In the same was as just giving birth to a baby doesn't make you a mother. You have to do something to make yourself a hero, it's not something that's handed to you just for joining the Army, Police or Fire service. Yes, there are heroes in the army but not all army personnel are heroes. :thumbsup:

Rubybubbles
18-07-2010, 07:18 PM
ahem
I was at a nursery drop off today (same nursery as my lo) two boys playing with plastic guns and my minded lo was given one to play with by one of the boys (I took the minded lo to one side an reminded lo that mummy doesnt like him to play with guns and could he please give it back. Not a problem from my minded lo he handed it back no questions (i was very proud of my minded lo for this and praised him)

I then got a look from another mum who then asked 'doesnt she let him play with guns'

I told her no, but then again i dont give any of mine a gun to play with.

Why she asks, . . . its not like they are going to hurt anybody. (and looks around the other mums for support) :eek:

i just said 'its prefrence, everyones different'

I was fine when i gave that responce but now its playing over in my mind, how rude of her to judge others.

back to OP;) Well done:D

I do not have any toy guns in my house, knifes to stab or like wise! The lo 2 I look after put a stick to his mouth and blew:( , he has been watching his dad, so I said, we don't put sticks in our mouths!

MY husband is in the forces, and we live on a camp, we see the soliders guarding the gates with their guns, I tell the children they are keeping us safe.

Maybe because my own ds 8 has never shown an interest in playing guns I never really think about it, but I have looked after a number of children (boys and girls) over the years and yes some will make guns with lego, crusts and sticks! 2 little ones I currently look after love star wars, so make light sabers (is that right?) out of mega blocks! I don't stop them, but I wouldn't buy toy 'guns' as such! We do have knifes for the kitchen, but they get used for the kitchen play! to buy toys guns then yes they would use them as guns!

My son loves to make rubberband with Y stick bow and arrows! He knows only to shoot the trees! it's all about teaching them IMHO

wendywu
18-07-2010, 09:21 PM
This thread has really got me thinking.

I dont buy guns for the mindees to play with. But a while ago i did buy a bundle of kitchen toys from a charity shop. In it was one of those old space guns the type that you pumped the handle and a disc goes round and sparks fly out and it makes a noise.

Well i removed it, maybe as its a space laser i could let them play space men with it. As i do have the dressing up clothes to go with it.

Oh i dont know:o

Ripeberry
19-07-2010, 08:16 AM
I've just remembered something from my childhood. When we moved to our house in Cardiff as a child my dad thought it would be fun to use an air pistol in the local woods.
This was back in the early 1980s and it was a big heavy thing and you had to put a pellet in each time you fired.
Anyway, one day my mum was quite a way ahead of us and my dad shot at her 'bum' and she ended up with a massive bruise and was lucky that she was wearing a coat and jeans at the time.

My dad NEVER used it again and hid it. Not seen it for 30yrs but it is in the house somewhere and of course now is illegal!