Invitation - Discuss/Express NCMA

[Pipsqueak]

As the title says. Please put here on this thread any good or bad experiences you have had with NCMA. This thread is not to do NCMA down but just a central point for people to share grievances and concerns and/or good/bad experiences. NCMA do work hard on our behalf - that I appreciate but its no good if we are not getting the support that we really need in our day to day working lives.

Hopefully if its in one place and a NCMA rep comes on here they might see just how upset, concerned and disgruntled the people they are representing actually are and perhaps give them a chance to address some of the issues.

Most of you will have seen my recent thread and this is what has prompted this subsequent thread. They might see exactly what support we need - so when expressing your concern please feel free to put what you feel they could/should have done to support you better, for example. Where do you feel their 'support' is lacking.

[Trouble]

They all need to say the same thing not one person saying one thing and another saying something else:angry:

[Pipsqueak]

So I will kick off: my three instances of being let down by NCMA services:

my most recent debacle of deposits (won't repeat it all here but will reference the other thread). sympathy is no good to me. http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=60690

no help when there is a non paying parent and the amount is under the limit of £150. Advice and support was limited and came from very dis-interested people at the legal line. I had to do the chasing and their follow up when they promised was useless.

A parent who refused to pay and then threatened me with ofsted. Again no practical support only disinterested and limited advice that I as an inexperienced (at the time) and very shook up childminder found hard to implement on my own. Again i had to chase the legal line to follow up.

Also I am not happy with the fact that we cannot suspend care if the parent is in breach of contract (ie non payment) and the advice is to issue notice and carry on working. This could be for several weeks without any pay. The process of recovering money is very very slow as NCMA are very very slow.

[The Juggler]

I have no personal experience but get very angry at the lack of support I've seen on here.

i.e.

1. the fact that no monies are chased unless over £150.

2.The fact that despite parents being behind with payments (whetehr in advance or arrears or provision of service) NCMA believe I don't have the right to suspend service until payment is made. If parents have breached contract by not paying how can I breach contract by suspendign service??

In this circumstance I'm happy to offer them 4 weeks notice of termination of contract (if it came to that) but I still reserve the right to suspend services in this time until payment is made up to date. Therefore, the parent takes up the right to use the notice period or not by choosing to pay, or not.

3. I charge deposits of a months fee. I will refund this against first months fees on startign but it is a non-refundable deposite and I absolutely retain the right to keep it if the parents then choose not to start the contract - otherwise what's it for? Retainers can't be charged in this circumstance as the place may not have been free prior to this.

4. I am most concerned that you have found out Pip that the contracts do not support this. Yet despite the sympathy you have received there has been no urgent contact to minders to inform them that the way they complete the contracts may render them invalid/illegal. This is most shocking to me as surely if such an important point is discovered by the legal team they have a right to inform all minders and ensure they have the correct replacement paperwork and advice on completion immediately.

[TheBTeam]

My friend did get NCMA solicitor to help her pursue the case, but the actual solicitors only acted like a postbox for the parents letters, they offered no help in wording a response, they did not once say to the parent who had breached the contract by not paying notice that they had breached the contract and therefore that was the law and had to pay, they simply passed the letter on and said send us your reply to pass on!!! A glorified postman.

When i queried by email the position on clearing/not clearing snow from the driveways the response only arrived after more than two weeks and me having to chase them. The response 'if you have risk assessed it you should do what you think'. Passing the buck to us not answering the question, are we insured if we do/dont clear it, do we make it worse if we have cleared it and they slip etc?

[Mouse]

I count myself fortunate never to have needed NCMA legal advice & have now changed my insurance to MM, so will never need to use it.
I therefore have no first hand experience, but made my decision to switch insurers based on horror stories I have read here and heard from other minders.

My main gripe is that we are told by NCMA that we must do certain things, eg. can no longer charge for bank holidays if we're not prepared to work them, cannot keep a non-refundable deposit if parents pull out of the contract, have to give 4 weeks notice to non-paying parents, even though they're the ones who have broken the contract. If another insurance company can let us do what we want, why can't NCMA? We're all self employed, so why are we being told what to do?

If these changes were so important, why were we never told about them? If contracts are replaced by a newer edition, why aren't we told? If any paperwork is updated, why aren't we told? How can so many changes be made to important paperwork without us being told?

And with regard to the changes, why aren't we ever consulted about them? How come they just appear? Why not say "this is what we're propsing. What do you think?"

Worrying things I have heard from other people include being told not to bother chasing parents for a small amount of money. Apparently it's a waste of time & could result in the parents making mallicious complaints about us to Ofsted! What sort of advice is that? If ANY money is due to us we should be encouraged to do what we can to get it. And we should not be afraid of chasing money for fear of complaints being made against us. We should be getting advice on how to deal with that if it does happen.

Over & over again I hear examples of NCMA legal team giving advice that seems to favour the parents, not the childminder. Our job can be hard enough, but when the organisation that is supposed to be backing you is seemingly against you, what are you supposed to think?


I am still a member of NCMA as I do think they do some good work on behalf of childminders. To me though, it seems that they've become complacent over the years. They arrange the insurance for us, so should be making sure it is right for us. Going back to when I first became a childminder, we all joined NCMA because it was the thing to do & there wasn't really another choice. Now that there is competition out there and now that people have another option, they need to get their act together before they lose many more members.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I have only had to go to NCMA for legal advice and never taken any action so I won't comment further apart to say they were very informative on what I needed.

[onceinabluemoon]

I got my insurance from MM after hearing how NCMA are not particularly helpful so have never had to use that and cannot comment.

However I joined NCMA this year at a cost of sixty pounds plus really to see what it was all about. I seem to get a magazine every few months and that's it - pretty expensive magazine - I didn't receive anything else when I joined nor since and am very disappointed and cannot see the point in paying all that hard earned cash for a mag which to be honest I haven't even read! It should be clearer that you are paying them for nothing! I certainly will not be renewing.

[Kelly]

I have always been with NCMA (although I do my household insurance through MM) I have never had to use the legal services, but overall I am happy with my membership. I have always used the NCMA paperwork so I know I make a saving on renewing that. Last year I purchased some of the vouchers at a discounted rate and I have used the discounted rate when visiting lego land.

In our area the CDO's are very good and attend groups and visit CM's in their own homes. At a group a couple of weeks ago one of the CM's was also talking about membership and said she couldn't understand why NCMA members had to pay the same as everyone else to do the local courses (which NCMA staff sometimes run) I pointed out that it is not an NCMA perk/NCMA course, and that the LA lay on the courses not NCMA, lots of CM's here seem to get confused what NCMA do, some even think they have something to do with Ofsted!

[Hebs]

was told "it would be difficult" to chase a non paying parent, so lost out on over £1200 of outstanding fees (notice period payment)

cheers NCMA :rolleyes:

[miss mopple]

Ive always been with the NCMA and cant see that changing. I havent had any experience of their legal team tbh but Im on the network and I have found that my development worker is fantastic and has given me lots of support and good advice when needed over the years.

I have attended some superb training courses and conferences run by them too :thumbsup:

On the whole I am a very happy customer, but if I had to find a gripe it would be the lack of understanding that we are self employed not their staff. We do seem to be expected to do things their way and I dont hold with that as I am my own boss and thats the way I like it :D

[Pipsqueak]

I have attended some superb training courses and conferences run by them too :thumbsup:

On the whole I am a very happy customer, but if I had to find a gripe it would be the lack of understanding that we are self employed not their staff. We do seem to be expected to do things their way and I dont hold with that as I am my own boss and thats the way I like it :D

I throughly agree- I have attended some fab events and training via NCMA - so no gripes there.

the bit i have bolded - yes to them forgetting we are self employed and that there really is no give at all in what they want us to do. The contracts are so rigid that there is no scope for the uniqueness of a setting or the client situation for example.

[Pipsqueak]

was told "it would be difficult" to chase a non paying parent, so lost out on over £1200 of outstanding fees (notice period payment)

cheers NCMA :rolleyes:

yes my friend was told this as well ' it would be difficult and a very long drawn out process' and was she prepared for the hassle that went with it.
after much chasing of NCMA legal line and being what she thought was 'fobbed off' and their general disinterest she ended up giving up on nearly £800 of outstanding fees.
She could have pursued it herself but she really needed guidance through the legal minefield as this parent played all sorts of nasty tricks and stunts on her.

Another minder friend lost out on roughly £1300 due to the shambolic 'advice' - (not sure what other word to put on it) given to her by NCMA

[Hebs]

this is the biggest reason i'm changing to MM when mine is due for renewal :thumbsup:

[The Juggler]

just also wanted to add, the events and regional forums, policy forums are a fantastic way for us to be involved. We don't have NCMA representation in our LA unfortunately but when it was there it was good.

Just the day to day support is an issue:(

[Pipsqueak]

UPDATE@

UPDATE:

Well, NCMA have been extremely prompt in dealing with my complaint and concerns. I have had some excellent customer service.
The matter has been resolved to my satisfaction. In agreement with NCMA I cannot disclose the details, however I will say well done NCMA, you are listening and you have proved it. Thank you.

I will say to everyone, if you do have a complaint or concern regarding any part of (including insurance, legal etc) NCMA they NEED to know about it. This is the only way things can get changed - if they don't know about it, then they can't do anything.

I have been reassured by NCMA's actions and words. There a changes afoot and they NEED to hear from you so that they can put the right support in place.

Thank you everyone for your support.

[TheBTeam]

So are you saying that they have stopped you from clarifying the position with regard to deposits to us?

I would not be happy if they have clarified the position but will not let you share it with us?:panic:

[Pipsqueak]

So are you saying that they have stopped you from clarifying the position with regard to deposits to us?

I would not be happy if they have clarified the position but will not let you share it with us?:panic:

sorry BTeam, i have explained badly, they have taken my complaint seriously and resolved that issue for me personally. However, we lightly touched on the subject of the deposit and Mr Aris said that they are reviewing the situation.
Using the newer contracts the explanations on them are a LOT clearer and if you follow that guidance I surmise that you will be ok. If in doubt please do not hesitate to give NCMA a call.

[Mouse]

UPDATE@

UPDATE:

Well, NCMA have been extremely prompt in dealing with my complaint and concerns. I have had some excellent customer service.
The matter has been resolved to my satisfaction. In agreement with NCMA I cannot disclose the details, however I will say well done NCMA, you are listening and you have proved it. Thank you.

I will say to everyone, if you do have a complaint or concern regarding any part of (including insurance, legal etc) NCMA they NEED to know about it. This is the only way things can get changed - if they don't know about it, then they can't do anything.

I have been reassured by NCMA's actions and words. There a changes afoot and they NEED to hear from you so that they can put the right support in place.

Thank you everyone for your support.

It's great that they've sorted out your concern and I hear what you're saying about getting in touch if there are things we're not happy with. Lately though, it seems as if we're having to get in touch about an awful lot.
Why should we keep having to fight the people who are supposed to be supporting us? If they're the 'experts' shouldn't they be getting it right first time?

I'm glad your issue has been dealt with, but I definitely won't go back to them for insurance. What if this had happened to another childminder who didn't have the strength you do, or the backing of this forum? I bet most would have just given up at the first hurdle?

[TheBTeam]

sorry BTeam, i have explained badly, they have taken my complaint seriously and resolved that issue for me personally. However, we lightly touched on the subject of the deposit and Mr Aris said that they are reviewing the situation.
Using the newer contracts the explanations on them are a LOT clearer and if you follow that guidance I surmise that you will be ok. If in doubt please do not hesitate to give NCMA a call.

Thanks for clarifying, i didnt think you would let them get away with not clarifying the situation, and I think I can guess the way they have sorted 'you' out, good on you for getting somewhere, lets hope they learn a lesson from this,:clapping:

[Playmate]

I will always support Development Staff for the time an effort and support they give locally. However having read about everyone's greivances on here and listended to a few locally during my time, I'm less than impressed with their membership services. We have now changed our insurances etc over, but will remain members as we are active locally as volunteers with the regional forum. We were not impressed that yesterday we were promised a phone call from Richard Aris re our decission to stop our insurances and we still have not received our call :(

[Carol M]

I have had advice from the legal team twice. They told me what to write to a parent who did not want to pay the notice period ( nothing you guys didn't tell me already) and also what to write to a mobile phone company who I was in dispute with.
Both times the letters/emails got a result without taking it further.
I'm glad I did not have to take it further as the posts from others worries me about the support I would get !
Carol x

[Bananabrain]

My main gripe really stems from when I started childminding.
I was under the impression that the 'National Childminding Association' would be the place to go to answer all my questions and give me pointers.
I was quite shocked to find that is not the case.
The 'helpline' is not really a helpline at all. And that's always assuming you can get through in the first place.
I have had all my help and support from this forum.
Without this forum I probably would have given up childminding.
I love my job, but it is sometimes very stressful and if I'm absolutely honest I'm not really sure why I pay NCMA my hard earned money each year.
Sorry NCMA, but I don't feel in any way 'supported' by you guys.

[Bananabrain]

Also 'Official' NCMA paperwork is ridiculously expensive {we childminders don't receive any funding you know}