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Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 08:33 AM
Following on from my other thread - I rang the legal line to ask for advice re the deposit:


you aren't gonna believe this:

BECAUSE the contract hasn't started its not valid - basically because I haven't provided care yet then the full deposit is supposed to be returned.

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Kes
10-06-2010, 08:36 AM
Then whats the point of the deposit I always thought it was to keep their place open then if they let you down you keep it.

WibbleWobble
10-06-2010, 08:37 AM
Then whats the point of the deposit I always thought it was to keep their place open then if they let you down you keep it.

i thought that too!


or am i just stupid?


mandy xxx

miffy
10-06-2010, 08:38 AM
Noooooooooooooo! (shakes head in disbelief! :panic: )

So, exactly what is the point in doing the contract and taking a deposit?

You know what, I think I'd "forget" I'd asked the question!

Miffy xx

sarah707
10-06-2010, 08:42 AM
How odd.

I always understood that if the parent decides they don’t want the place, the childminder keeps the deposit money.

That's what I have read in various places including books / articles on the subject written by childminders.

Would you get a different answer from someone else do you think?

Hugs xx

dobby
10-06-2010, 08:43 AM
sorry but that sounds wrong from a legal standpoint. With any other business if you pay a deposit then you lose it should you no longer want the service. Its entirely down to the descretion of the business wether they wish to make a refund for goodwill.

Perhaps its worth contacting the CAB for advice - or why not phone NCMA as a parent and see what they say?

angeldelight
10-06-2010, 08:43 AM
Confused :eek:

I really dont get this

Angel xx

miffy
10-06-2010, 08:51 AM
OK so this may be out of date but it would be nice to know when NCMA changed their minds - taken from the 2007/08 NCMA handbook

"Deposits
A deposit is usually a one-off amount paid by parents to show their intention of taking up a place. It may be refunded by being deducted from the fees once the childminding arrangement begins. NCMA recommends that you take a deposit when parents sign the contract

A deposit is not usually returned to parents if they decide not to take up the place. If you cannot offer the place as agreed, or you vary the terms and conditions without the agreement of the parent, then the deposit should be returned to the parent in full. Details of the deposit should be included in the contract."

Bits in bold are me not NCMA! :laughing:

Miffy xx

Mouse
10-06-2010, 08:54 AM
This is what it says on the NCMA website in the Info for Parents section:

A deposit is a one-off payment from parents to show their intention to take up a childminding place. It is usually refunded to parents by being deducted from the fees once the childminding arrangement begins.



The deposit is not usually returned if you decide not to take up the childminding place. However, if the childminder cannot, for some reason, take on your child as previously agreed, they should refund the deposit in full. Details of the deposit should be included on the contract.

wellybelly
10-06-2010, 08:54 AM
I always assume a deposit is a deposit regardless of the NCMA. Parents go along with this as they would if they were placing a deposit for a new car for example. Is it worth calling the NCMA to see if someone different answers and gives you different information?

moogster1a
10-06-2010, 08:54 AM
This is exactly why I encourage people to go with MM.
NCMA don't know their a**e from their elbow when it comes to the legal side,
Ignore them, tell the parent the deposit is non-refundable, and if they want to take you to county court good luck to them!
As a matter of interest, someone with MM should 'phone with the same scenario to MM's helpline and see what they say. I can guarantee it won't be the rubbish NCMA came out with. ( sorry, but I'm off to pick up lo then playgroup or I'd do it!)

miffy
10-06-2010, 08:58 AM
This is what it says on the NCMA website in the Info for Parents section:

A deposit is a one-off payment from parents to show their intention to take up a childminding place. It is usually refunded to parents by being deducted from the fees once the childminding arrangement begins.



The deposit is not usually returned if you decide not to take up the childminding place. However, if the childminder cannot, for some reason, take on your child as previously agreed, they should refund the deposit in full. Details of the deposit should be included on the contract.

So it hasn't changed then?

Pip, it sounds as though you've spoken to someone who doesn't know what they're talking about or they got the wrong end of the stick!

Perhaps you should call again and quote them their advice!

Miffy xx

Mollymop
10-06-2010, 08:59 AM
I think you have been told a load of rubbish!!

Give them a ring back and ask someone else. It must be wrong!!:panic:

Hebs
10-06-2010, 09:19 AM
IF it's not wrong i think we need to start a petition for change,


OR


I'm going to start billing my parents for the cost of my NCMA membership as it seems to offer more protection to them than us minders :panic:

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 09:19 AM
This was the legal department. I have argued all the points you have raised.
I have rang NCMA back and expressed my discontent and the supervisor of membership is 'looking into it' and will ring me back.

So so hacked of:angry: :angry: :angry:

Blaze
10-06-2010, 09:23 AM
Pip - whoever you spoke to are wrong...stop stressing - ring ' write to her & tell her the money is non -refundable as per contract - & if she gets shirty tell her you are a business, not a charity & turned work away to accept her LO, so you are now seriously out of pocket because she changed her mind (which she is perfectly entitled to do) - but the deposit is NON -REFUNDABLE & she signed & agreed to this!!!!!!

angeldelight
10-06-2010, 09:24 AM
This was the legal department. I have argued all the points you have raised.
I have rang NCMA back and expressed my discontent and the supervisor of membership is 'looking into it' and will ring me back.

So so hacked of:angry: :angry: :angry:

Dont stress pip

I am sure you will sort it out

Wrong information given again hope they call you back soon if not call them every hour so they get fed up of you ha ha

Good luck with this

Angel xxx

Blaze
10-06-2010, 09:25 AM
This was the legal department. I have argued all the points you have raised.
I have rang NCMA back and expressed my discontent and the supervisor of membership is 'looking into it' and will ring me back.

So so hacked of:angry: :angry: :angry:

The NCMA legal department are trainee solicitors who most haven't even finished completing their law degree yet (I'm not being bitchy - it's fact)!

angeldelight
10-06-2010, 09:26 AM
So glad I am no longer with NCMA

They never seem to give much support do they ?

Angel xxx

Hebs
10-06-2010, 09:28 AM
So glad I am no longer with NCMA

They never seem to give much support do they ?

Angel xxx

not unless your a parent :thumbsup:

angeldelight
10-06-2010, 09:29 AM
not unless your a parent :thumbsup:

Oh yeah you are right there

:laughing:

Angel xx

The Juggler
10-06-2010, 09:32 AM
Following on from my other thread - I rang the legal line to ask for advice re the deposit:


you aren't gonna believe this:

BECAUSE the contract hasn't started its not valid - basically because I haven't provided care yet then the full deposit is supposed to be returned.



:angry: :angry: :angry: B****cks. Take no notice. Where else would you expect to get a deposit back. It says IN WRITING non-refundable deposit. Pip I've been chewing Richard Aris' ear off about this and how unsupportive the legal line are. Ring him and tell him this is the final straw. What ARE we paying our money for if even whats in writing in a signed contract means nothing:angry: :angry: :angry:

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 09:34 AM
:angry: :angry: :angry: B****cks. Take no notice. Where else would you expect to get a deposit back. It says IN WRITING non-refundable deposit. Pip I've been chewing Richard Aris' ear off about this and how unsupportive the legal line are. Ring him and tell him this is the final straw. What ARE we paying our money for if even whats in writing in a signed contract means nothing:angry: :angry: :angry:

Have you got a number for him Juggler

David
10-06-2010, 09:36 AM
I use to sell cars and if someone had paid a deposit, but then changed their mind, we would give back deposit less any expenses we incurred. so if you turned down other parents you would be entitled to keep deposit.

aly
10-06-2010, 09:39 AM
i think we should all phone up and ask the same question and see who comes back with a yes and who with a no!!

The Juggler
10-06-2010, 09:54 AM
Have you got a number for him Juggler

let me have a look hon, need to check my e-mail

The Juggler
10-06-2010, 09:57 AM
no phone number but here is his e-mail. He and I had loads of correspondence then he got the legal people to call me. They called once, I missed their call. I called back and left a message but they never tried again:rolleyes:

I complained about advice given to one of our members. He told me clearly (after speaking to the legal team) that the advice she was given would never have been given out by them. I told him that it had been. The forum member spoke to him direct after that.

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 10:25 AM
Great I have just had mum and the grandma on the doorstep screaming at me that I am a robbing b and that I steal, tehy are going to be taking me to court etc etc - all in front of my mindees . I am really shook up - did end the conversation and told the mum I wold ring her at 6.30 tonight.

Rang NCMA back and they are insistent because the contract hadn't started yet and that I offset the deposit against the fees then yes I should give it back. But because I have ticked non-refundable and parent has signed I could use this clause if parent sues me.

I have had enough of this blooming marlakry. Am going to look for another job. I am SOOOO sick of this

ORKSIE
10-06-2010, 10:38 AM
I cant believe this.....Where is the support when you need it!!!

What the hell is the point of a deposit then:panic:

Big Hugs Pip......I cant believe these people are being so aweful:angry:

xx

Hebs
10-06-2010, 10:40 AM
ring the police :angry:

they threatened you infront of your mindees i'd be going nuts and get the police involved shake them up a bit :angry:

hope your ok xxxx

LisaMcNally09
10-06-2010, 10:40 AM
Oh hun loads of hugs coming your way!!

First of all I would be ringing the police and getting a crime number for intimidation! How would this look if they then took you to court??? You couldnt go to someones place of work and do that.....your home is your work and they have over stepped the mark!!

Secondly this would make me personally push to keep the whole lot. Dont get into conversation with them anymore. I would send them a letter stating she signed a contract.....the contract states non refundable and if she isnt happy then to seek legal advice. Dont let this go. People cant get away with bullying to get their own way!!!

Please please please dont pack in either. Why should your area lose a fantastic childminder because of two bullies!!!

Massive hugs coming your way!!!!

The Juggler
10-06-2010, 10:47 AM
oh hon, this is awful. If I were you, I'd ring and join MM today and get their legal advice.

Then write a long letter to NCMA and tell them exactly why you have left them. They NEED to know that they are seriously letting members down with their legal support.

They may do great lobbying work on our behalf as a professional but on a day-to-day support basis they need to have a seriuos rethink.:(


sending a really big hug. Don't quit - you are too good a childminder to quit:)

candy cat
10-06-2010, 10:51 AM
MADNESS!!!! Before I do my contracts I fill an acceptance form which states deposit is not refundable if you do not take the place. I do put it in contract as well so maybe do this as well just to cover in the future.

My friend has had major problems with NCMA....

Hebs
10-06-2010, 10:59 AM
They may do great lobbying work on our behalf as a professional but on a day-to-day support basis they need to have a seriuos rethink.:(


but all the lobbying in the world is pointless if we dont have the day to day support :panic:

The Juggler
10-06-2010, 11:00 AM
but all the lobbying in the world is pointless if we dont have the day to day support :panic:

my point exactly:( they'll have no members left soon and no money to do their lobbying with!

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 11:02 AM
Rang legal line back to update them - she said about ringing the police but they she added in that it might encourage tit for tat in that she makes allegations about me to Ofsted. my neighbour came round to see if i was alright bless her. My head is spinning and is all over the place.
i am soooo tempted to allow this go to court and see if i win - blu fin said that they would represent me - wow how lucky am I! This is ridiculous - basically because I have been nice and allowed the deposit to be offset against fees then I have shot myself in the foot. I asked why that is on the contract then and she said the contracts are perfectly fine.

She did say about the cooling of period and when I talked about this last year with Blu fin they said that there is no such thing - i asked her why they are contradicting themselves.

arrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh this is doing my head in totally.

LisaMcNally09
10-06-2010, 11:07 AM
Rang legal line back to update them - she said about ringing the police but they she added in that it might encourage tit for tat in that she makes allegations about me to Ofsted. my neighbour came round to see if i was alright bless her. My head is spinning and is all over the place.
i am soooo tempted to allow this go to court and see if i win - blu fin said that they would represent me - wow how lucky am I! This is ridiculous - basically because I have been nice and allowed the deposit to be offset against fees then I have shot myself in the foot. I asked why that is on the contract then and she said the contracts are perfectly fine.

She did say about the cooling of period and when I talked about this last year with Blu fin they said that there is no such thing - i asked her why they are contradicting themselves.

arrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh this is doing my head in totally.

As far as im concerned if someone comes here and abuses me while im working they can contact ofsted as many times as they like ill still go to the police!!!

Oh im so:angry: for you!!

Please dont give in. My biggest bug bear is bullies and they need to be taught they cant get away with it!!

Maybe losing money in court costs will make them realise!!

Blue Boy
10-06-2010, 11:08 AM
Hi ya, I have just been elected as a member of the National Policy Forum to represention the East Region and am attending a volunteers conference at the end of the month. One of the agenda items is How to Promote the NCMA! I feel that this is a matter that I need to bring up as I can see them loosing members hands over fist with information like this coming out.

I will report back with any information I get. I hope it will be of help.

The Juggler
10-06-2010, 11:16 AM
Hi ya, I have just been elected as a member of the National Policy Forum to represention the East Region and am attending a volunteers conference at the end of the month. One of the agenda items is How to Promote the NCMA! I feel that this is a matter that I need to bring up as I can see them loosing members hands over fist with information like this coming out.

I will report back with any information I get. I hope it will be of help.

it would be great if you do that Mick. I've spoken to my policy forum member, who passed me to NCMA directly (Richard Aris). i've told them the issues they are causing. I know that lots of other forum members have also brought up this issue at the regional forums. It seems they are not listening:( maybe you can make them see how much this issue is affecting us.

Blaze
10-06-2010, 11:16 AM
Ring the police - if you don't I will - I'll report a disturbance!:p

& you keep the money - if they take you to cuort - forget NCMA - just show the contract & today print from the NCMA website what it says about non - refundable deposits etc - case dismissed! :thumbsup:

manjay
10-06-2010, 11:17 AM
Hi ya, I have just been elected as a member of the National Policy Forum to represention the East Region and am attending a volunteers conference at the end of the month. One of the agenda items is How to Promote the NCMA! I feel that this is a matter that I need to bring up as I can see them loosing members hands over fist with information like this coming out.

I will report back with any information I get. I hope it will be of help.

You are so right Mick. I too believe that fundamentally the NCMA is a worthwhile organisation. However they are not doing them selves any favours in the way they are dealing with legal issues.

Hebs
10-06-2010, 11:19 AM
Plus compensation for the trauma x

michellethegooner
10-06-2010, 11:42 AM
Rang legal line back to update them - she said about ringing the police but they she added in that it might encourage tit for tat in that she makes allegations about me to Ofsted. my neighbour came round to see if i was alright bless her. My head is spinning and is all over the place.
i am soooo tempted to allow this go to court and see if i win - blu fin said that they would represent me - wow how lucky am I! This is ridiculous - basically because I have been nice and allowed the deposit to be offset against fees then I have shot myself in the foot. I asked why that is on the contract then and she said the contracts are perfectly fine.

She did say about the cooling of period and when I talked about this last year with Blu fin they said that there is no such thing - i asked her why they are contradicting themselves.

arrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh this is doing my head in totally.

That is why I would personally ring the police they may make complaints regardless at least then it is on record of a dispute

wendywu
10-06-2010, 11:50 AM
I put in a complaint about the NCMA legal team years ago.

Well after 13 years I for one will NOT be using them again. From Oct onwards i will be going with MM.

Go to the police Pip and DONT refund, let them take you to court if they want to. THEY signed the contract.:angry:

TheBTeam
10-06-2010, 11:56 AM
I must admit I thought for dh and I having one insured with NCMA and one with MM, and then picking the one that would help us the most in a situation, that said seems like MM might win hands down:rolleyes:

aly
10-06-2010, 11:57 AM
Ring the police - if you don't I will - I'll report a disturbance!:p

& you keep the money - if they take you to cuort - forget NCMA - just show the contract & today print from the NCMA website what it says about non - refundable deposits etc - case dismissed! :thumbsup:

I would, as they could change it slightly in their favour etc.

Mollymop
10-06-2010, 12:12 PM
My god, how disgusting this woman and her mother are to come round and scream at you in front of your mindees - :panic: Hugs.

NCMA are not doing themselves any favours by not supporting you, don't they realise how many childminders are on this forum who read these threads?

I for one am an NCMA member who has never needed to use their legal help but now I am wondering whether being with them is such a good idea! There have been so many threads in the past about NCMA not being there to help the minders in question that are in trouble, money owed to them - NCMA always come up with a hidden clause or something so that the minder is left out of pocket. They are no help at all sometimes!

I would be very tempted to let it go to court too, after all the parent signed the contract that clearly stated deposit taken and non - refundable. End of story

I would also think about giving NCMA (or Ofsted) a call about the parent screaming at you on your doorstep in front of mindees so that someone has a log just incase the parent does decide to complain to ofsted although if she did complain what exactly would she complain about when her child hasn't even started with you?

Hope u are ok ~?

green puppy
10-06-2010, 12:54 PM
Sending hugs your way Pip, what an awful situation! I have just renewed my insurance with mm instead of ncma. Agree with the others though about logging a complaint with the police.

miffy
10-06-2010, 01:09 PM
Hope you're OK, Pip.

I agree with everyone about notifying the police, even if she does go to Ofsted (and she might do that whether you've rung the police or not) at least you will have this on record.

I wouldn't refund her either - whatever NCMA say you have it in writing that she agreed to the deposit being non-refundable. I know it's very stressful but I wouldn't let her bully me, especially after what she did this morning.

Miffy xx

dawn37
10-06-2010, 01:25 PM
You poor thing, this woman is a bully, you've had a very lucky escape in one respect as I feel you would've been constantly been in turmoil with this woman over her child. I would definitely ring the police so its on record, if she does take things up with ofsted, you havn't done anything wrong but at least a police report is there to show exactly what this woman is like..she doesn't stand a chance. :angry: :censored: :angry:
I can't believe how unsupportive NCMA are being, I've just been funded my insurance with them but I feel next year I will be changing to MM.

Sending you huge hugs xxx

Dawn

dawn37
10-06-2010, 01:28 PM
Sorry, afterthought...If you don't report to the police & this goes to court, if you mention about her screaming at you in front of other mindee's, they may ask why you didn't report it to the police at the time?

Dawn:)

cuffleygirl
10-06-2010, 01:30 PM
Pip - stand your ground - ring the police - let the parents take you to court - You will win it is commonsense a deposit is a deposit is a deposit - in this case for care in the future it was taken up so there parents forego the deposit.

Going to the police may instigate a tit for tat but ofsted will not want to go involved in a contractual dispute, for a start they cannot complain about care they haven't had any.

I also am going to go to MM when I renew, this is the deciding factor for me - I have a problem with NCMA's clause about childminders breaking contractual agreement by refusing care if the parent doesn't pay - that too is outrageous. It wouldn't be an issue to withdraw service for non payment in another line of business.

WibbleWobble
10-06-2010, 01:33 PM
keep your chin up pip my love....you are in the right so dont let this awful woman and her mother get to you.

Regarding NCMA..well (sorry pauline) they sound like a right load of:censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: ! I am with them at the mo but as soon as it runs out i will be defecting to MM. I have not heard a positive thing about NCMAs support of the childminder...its all for the parent....well its not the flippin parents who pay for this service is it?


sorry for rant


sorry to pauline for language:blush:


mandy xxxx

rickysmiths
10-06-2010, 01:40 PM
I hope you are alright Pip. I had a very similar situation in that a Contrat ended in a very unpleasant way. I think the parent must be directly related to your parents!

I think the fact you offset the fees in on part of the contact against future fees and then ticked the box that they were non returnable just makes the situation merky. I make it clear and mark on the contract that it is non-returnable and at the point of signing I say that as long as all payments etc are up to date I would hope to offset it against the 4 weeks notice period.

I make it very clear that if they fail to take up the place the deposit is not returned.

I would stick to your guns over this with the parent. The parentIhad a run in with turned up at my house to pay what she owed me and sign all the paperwork to end the contract. I was politness myself and made sue dh was present. She came in, threw and envelope of money in my face and then started the verbal abuse in the hopes I would reply in kind, which of course I didn't. We realised quite quickly that her friend was by the front door trying to record everything on her phone. :laughing: I was a shaking , crying, wreck by the time she left threatening to take me to court. We rang the Police immediately and reported the incident incase she tried to asslut us again. On the Monday I also rang Ofsted so the incident was recorded incase she did make a complaint. I advise you to do the same, it is not tit for tat at all . It is called covering your own back.

On balance how likely are they to actually take you to Court? These people tend to get mouthy and abusive in the hopes they will intimidate us to their advantage because sadly they don't like coming face to face with the consiquences of their actions.

I never heard from my woman again. She had caused havoc at school as well and left the area soon after.

It is very distressing but stick to your guns. When you send the letter send it recorded delivery so she has to sign for it. At the same time send it to yourself recoded delivery as well so you have proof that it was sent and when, if she like my girl she will refuse it and it will come back to you, at least you can prove you tried to contact her.

Good luck. Big hugs. Remember you are right.

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 02:46 PM
just rung NCMA membership and legal line to point out their error in what it says on the website and their response - 'oh - lets us check that'
a senior member of the legal team is supposed to be getting back to me asap

now getting snotty texts from the parent

aly
10-06-2010, 03:03 PM
just rung NCMA membership and legal line to point out their error in what it says on the website and their response - 'oh - lets us check that'
a senior member of the legal team is supposed to be getting back to me asap

now getting snotty texts from the parent
make sure you keep them to prove to whomever

TheBTeam
10-06-2010, 03:06 PM
just rung NCMA membership and legal line to point out their error in what it says on the website and their response - 'oh - lets us check that'
a senior member of the legal team is supposed to be getting back to me asap

now getting snotty texts from the parent

Make sure you save the texts!

Minstrel
10-06-2010, 03:12 PM
Oh pip what a :censored: you've been landed with! :(

Hugs xxx

Ripeberry
10-06-2010, 03:12 PM
Sorry you are having so much trouble Pip. As others have said, report it to the police and keep copies of all texts. That woman is harrasing you.
This is one of my biggest nightmares and there are a few famillies around here that do this kind of thing, even to pre-schools and primary schools who have lots of people. Worse if you are on your own :(
But you have your virtual friends on here and I'm sure some RL CMs will be able to help.
I'm thinking of changing to MM for the contracts side.

LOOPYLISA
10-06-2010, 03:20 PM
:group hug:

Chatterbox Childcare
10-06-2010, 03:23 PM
I always put Non refundable deposit on the extra information section on my contracts

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 03:23 PM
spoken to the senior lawyer bloke at ncma legal line -

get this

APPARENTLY WHAT IT SAYS ON THE WEBSITE (NCMA) is WRONG - about deposits - the bloke is saying that is retainers and should not read deposits. - or in his words - oh dear thats not good.

he is on the phone to NCMA right now and I am waiting for him to call me back.


oh this is a pickle and isn't it great that our PROFESSIONAL body doesn't have a clue what the hell is going on and can't even give out factual information:angry:

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 03:24 PM
anyone got tax credits number handy please

aly
10-06-2010, 03:29 PM
anyone got tax credits number handy please
0845 300 3900

peanuts
10-06-2010, 03:37 PM
i would def contact the police now as it is harassment. keep the text as evidence

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 03:40 PM
legal line guy says i do not have a leg to stand on - I have to pay it back.

the ncma website it wrong

BEWARE if you have the older style contracts you may be filling them in wrong and potentially be at risk of 'illegal contracts'

I am friggin friggin friggin fuming


NCMA in my book are offically cr&p

Mouse
10-06-2010, 03:50 PM
legal line guy says i do not have a leg to stand on - I have to pay it back.

the ncma website it wrong

BEWARE if you have the older style contracts you may be filling them in wrong and potentially be at risk of 'illegal contracts'

I am friggin friggin friggin fuming


NCMA in my book are offically cr&p

I am reading this with a :eek: look on my face!!

I cannot believe the absolute rubbish responses you are getting from the legal department!!

I think the big problem here is that NCMA & the insurance company are 2 separate organisations. A massive example of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing :angry:

I am still a member of NCMA, but have my insurance through MM. Despite the fact it costs me more, it sounds as if I'm doing the right thing :rolleyes:

LisaMcNally09
10-06-2010, 03:51 PM
I would contact your own solicitor and take their advice. At the end of the day you dont have to use NCMA's legal line...its their if you want it. The NCMA contracts are still contracts and an independant solicitor will tell you for definite either way. I would send a text to parent stating you are seeking legal advice and will not correspond anymore with them until this has been done to your satisfaction!

moogster1a
10-06-2010, 03:51 PM
[B]IGNORE HIM!!![SIZE="2"][SIZE="2"]Insist that you're keeping the money. NCMA talk b******s.
It's a deposit for god's sake. throw a dictionary at their legal department if they still don't understand.

Rubybubbles
10-06-2010, 03:52 PM
:( hugs hun


I am due renewal in July and am going to have a good look into MM after lots of bad press on here about NCMA:panic:

snufflepuff
10-06-2010, 03:56 PM
I just cannot believe all this! You poor thing!
If a parent has signed something saying the deposit is not refunadable then surely that is the end of it, it is not refundable! *** 'illegal contracts', i have always been led to believe that anything of this nature just needs to be signed to class as a legally binding contract- even if you had just jotted on some scrap paper.
Im so glad i am not with NCMA, and i certainly wont be going with them in the future either. What a bunch of wotsits!

Hebs
10-06-2010, 04:03 PM
So does this mean we can terminate without notice? Lol cos seems ncma contracts arnt worth the paper there written on!

Ripeberry
10-06-2010, 04:05 PM
What about people who write their own contracts? Are theirs 'illegal' as well :confused:

miffy
10-06-2010, 04:07 PM
legal line guy says i do not have a leg to stand on - I have to pay it back.

the ncma website it wrong

BEWARE if you have the older style contracts you may be filling them in wrong and potentially be at risk of 'illegal contracts'

I am friggin friggin friggin fuming


NCMA in my book are offically cr&p

The website's been wrong for some time then! Agree with mouse it seems left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing :rolleyes:

Miffy xx

Carpet Monkeys
10-06-2010, 04:15 PM
Print off the page on the NCMA website where it says about deposits as back up for your claim, if it does go to court etc. So sorry to hear that they are being so nasty. Record anything and everything that the parents have said to you, if your neighbour heard what was going on get them to record it to. Definately go to the police and report it as harrassment/intimidation!

Blaze
10-06-2010, 04:16 PM
Pip - you do not need the NCMA legal line - print off what the website says - make a complaint wioth the police & leave it there - DO NOT REFUND! If it goes to court the court will look ar the paperwork & find in your favour! Illegal contract my **** - it says non -refundable deposit - she signed it - end off!:rolleyes:

Carpet Monkeys
10-06-2010, 04:18 PM
Was she just after your Ofsted Reg number to claim tax credits, perhaps ??????

rickysmiths
10-06-2010, 04:44 PM
Pip - you do not need the NCMA legal line - print off what the website says - make a complaint wioth the police & leave it there - DO NOT REFUND! If it goes to court the court will look ar the paperwork & find in your favour! Illegal contract my **** - it says non -refundable deposit - she signed it - end off!:rolleyes:

I agree. I would not refund. I would report the abuse to the Police and Ofsted.
She can try and complain to Ofsted about the non refund of the deposit but they won't get involved in contractual issues so it won't do her any good.

As her contract never started she has zilch else to complain about to Ofsted has she?

Carol M
10-06-2010, 04:52 PM
Pip, you gave me advice last year when a parent threatened me cos they didn't want to pay a notice period.
I did just what others have said and you told me to phone police and report him.
I am with NCMA and now wonder if this is a good idea!
I am a traditionalist at heart and used to be proud of being an NCMA member but their regular co*k ups with lack of support for the very people they should be supporting is disgraceful.
I really feel for you in this situation, it's pants.
Sending you love and big hugs.
Carol x

sandy64
10-06-2010, 05:16 PM
oh pip ive just been reading this i really feel for you not sure you can get any where with ncma now they arent going to fight your case
DEPOSIT. In cases where the registered childminder does not have a vacancy but expects to soon a deposit generally a flat rate may count as a credit to future childcare if the childminder is not able to offer a place it should be returned in full.IF THE PARENT DOES NOT WISH TO TAKE THE PLACE THE DEPOSIT MAY BE KEPT BY CHILDMINDER... if ncma dont stand by this in my opinion why do they have there own contracts for us to use?????????? i would ring the police as my local bobby has just said it is harrassment and verbal abuse and should not be put up with but you must not reply to her verbally or text or it could make it harder for you to argue your case.
sending you a big hug hope it gets sorted soon the nasty horrible woman:)

The Juggler
10-06-2010, 05:21 PM
so what about the advice to the parents saying deposits are non-refundable.

Im sorry but if NCMA are not letting me charge non-refundable deposits from now then their contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.

I'd like to see anyone at NCMA try to tell their holiday company they want their deposit back cos their not going!!!!!!!!

Pip, go join MM today and use them. I am so sorry this is happening to you hon. Big hug. Remeber not all parents are like thisx

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 05:22 PM
Ok you are all going to shout at me but i have refunded ALL the money - I just want shot of the nasty horrible woman and situation. the grandma has been round for it - i made her sign for it. Asked for my paperwork back and got a nasty text back!!!!
told teh grandma in no uncertain terms that their behaviour this morning was unacceptable - which she admitted and told me I was out of order and a disgrace to my profession (felt like punching her in the face at this point but i didn't). I pointed out that I bent over backwards to help her daughter and I believed she was taking me for a ride. God that felt good.

I have informed Ofsted and they have noted. I rung the police and logged the incident - they are not interested in the slightest.
Rung NCMA back and told them exactly what i think of their services and website info etc etc etc. They are going to investigate and call me back. I am putting in an official complaint as well.

From what the legal guy was saying the NCMA website is wrong therefore I have followed wrong advice and I am going to see if NCMA fancy reimbursing me for MY loss of earnings due to their mis-information:rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

I am so freakin annoyed I am beyond words but by god NCMA is going to feel my wrath.

Professional body for childminders - my ar*e!

Mouse
10-06-2010, 05:30 PM
Ok you are all going to shout at me but i have refunded ALL the money - I just want shot of the nasty horrible woman and situation. the grandma has been round for it - i made her sign for it. Asked for my paperwork back and got a nasty text back!!!!
told teh grandma in no uncertain terms that their behaviour this morning was unacceptable - which she admitted and told me I was out of order and a disgrace to my profession (felt like punching her in the face at this point but i didn't). I pointed out that I bent over backwards to help her daughter and I believed she was taking me for a ride. God that felt good.

I have informed Ofsted and they have noted. I rung the police and logged the incident - they are not interested in the slightest.
Rung NCMA back and told them exactly what i think of their services and website info etc etc etc. They are going to investigate and call me back. I am putting in an official complaint as well.

From what the legal guy was saying the NCMA website is wrong therefore I have followed wrong advice and I am going to see if NCMA fancy reimbursing me for MY loss of earnings due to their mis-information:rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

I am so freakin annoyed I am beyond words but by god NCMA is going to feel my wrath.

Professional body for childminders - my ar*e!


I don't think anyone has the right to critise you - we're not the ones having to deal with that hateful woman. You've done what is right for you and that's all that counts.

You have had a mega lucky escape and you are well shot of them. Imagine how things could have been if you'd actually started caring for the child...a nightmare!

Try to put that stupid woman out of your head & focus all your anger & frustration towards the appalling treatment you have had from NCMA. I really hope you get some satisfactory answers from them.

xx

Hebs
10-06-2010, 05:37 PM
time for a petition i think, time to tell NCMA in no uncertain terms what we think :angry:

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 05:43 PM
We could set up a 'forum' on here - like the regional and national ones and gather all our gripes and complaints regarding the 'service' of NCMA and we could collectively - those who want to - send an email to NCMA?
Not sure if thats ok with Pauline - would rather check with d'boss first.

Believe me I am NOT happy and going to be asking NCMA to refund my remainder of my sub and swop over to MM (can't afford to lose nearly a years payment).

sick sick sick of this:(

Bitsy Beans
10-06-2010, 05:45 PM
time for a petition i think, time to tell NCMA in no uncertain terms what we think :angry:

I agree :angry:
I am with them at the moment (still another 10 months to go grrrrr) and I will no longer be using their services. If they can't protect the workers who's profession they are supposed to promote then they don't deserve my time or money. MM going forward it is.

Pip you do the thing that you feel right. Why am I not suprise that the Police aren't interested in their harrassment :rolleyes: Have a stiff drink and put this behind you. Big hugs xxxx

PS. Pip like you I hold 50% first months fees as a deposit which states is non refundable. Clearly my contracts aren't even worth wiping my bottom with :rolleyes:

sarah707
10-06-2010, 05:46 PM
Sending hugs xx

sandy64
10-06-2010, 05:46 PM
hey nobody will shout at you youve done what you felt you had too youve been verbally abused all day i think you did well not to hit her (evan tho that would of made it worse) seriuosly im with hebs a petition needs to be done it needs sorting it should of never happened thinking il change to mm in august:)

hello kitty
10-06-2010, 05:52 PM
Oh Pip just been catching up with this thread. What an awful time you have had today. I don't blame you for refunding, it gets shot of the family.

Give NCMA hell, yours is not the first dire story I have heard about their lack of support.

I am with MM and use my own paperwork and think I will spend some time actually going over my contracts with a fine toothcomb to ensure I word everything clearly.

Sending hugs. x

merry
10-06-2010, 06:00 PM
[QUOTE=Pipsqueak;723564]Ok you are all going to shout at me but i have refunded ALL the money - I just want shot of the nasty horrible woman and situation. QUOTE]

I would have done the same, you can wait ages for court dates and I wouldn't want to have to deal with such horrible people for any longer than necessary. I hope you get some satisfaction from complaining about NCMA, when my insurance is due for renewal I'll definitely be looking elsewhere now!

:)

Bananabrain
10-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Oh Pip, I haven't read whole thing yet but sounds like a right sorry saga.
NCMA have been on my 'poop' list since day 1.
They are absolutely no help whatsoever and I reckon it's about time we made a stand!!!!
Will put my name to any complaint, just say the word.

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 06:06 PM
Gotta say it guys -

THANK YOU so much for your advice, support and concern.

Once again the forum is a terrific source of comfort.

sending each and everyone of you a huggy

Hebs
10-06-2010, 06:08 PM
yeah lets do one on the forum, or better still invite a rep from NCMA to join us on here and face our wrath :angry: :angry: :angry:

Mouse
10-06-2010, 06:11 PM
yeah lets do one on the forum, or better still invite a rep from NCMA to join us on here and face our wrath :angry: :angry: :angry:

I would love to see that :ROFL1: :ROFL1:

Bananabrain
10-06-2010, 06:13 PM
That's what we should do. Invite one of their people on here.
This is a total outrage.
I honestly thought that the NCMA was THE place to go when I started minding. Thought they would support me and have answers to my questions.
WRONG!!!

sweets
10-06-2010, 06:29 PM
OMG :eek: i have just read all this thread and i am shocked! pip you did exactly the right thing, the family sounds awful and you are best to get rid once and for all.

As for NCMA :censored: :censored:

i have just got my renewal forms from them and will enjoy ringing them up to tell them i am not renewing and will tell them the exact reason why.:angry:

mushpea
10-06-2010, 06:41 PM
oh my god!!!!:eek:
have only just caught up with your thread, its disgusting!! it was bad enought when i wasnt getting paid by a parent and was told by ncma legal that unless i worked my notice period of 4 weeks i wouldnt get any help from them cause i was in breech of contract, ended up working 8 weeks without pay in total,,, did get it in the end though but not through ncma help.
poor you,,, I hope you can get somthing out of the ncma for the trouble they caused.

ORKSIE
10-06-2010, 06:45 PM
Ok you are all going to shout at me but i have refunded ALL the money - I just want shot of the nasty horrible woman and situation. the grandma has been round for it - i made her sign for it. Asked for my paperwork back and got a nasty text back!!!!
told teh grandma in no uncertain terms that their behaviour this morning was unacceptable - which she admitted and told me I was out of order and a disgrace to my profession (felt like punching her in the face at this point but i didn't). I pointed out that I bent over backwards to help her daughter and I believed she was taking me for a ride. God that felt good.

I have informed Ofsted and they have noted. I rung the police and logged the incident - they are not interested in the slightest.
Rung NCMA back and told them exactly what i think of their services and website info etc etc etc. They are going to investigate and call me back. I am putting in an official complaint as well.

From what the legal guy was saying the NCMA website is wrong therefore I have followed wrong advice and I am going to see if NCMA fancy reimbursing me for MY loss of earnings due to their mis-information:rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

I am so freakin annoyed I am beyond words but by god NCMA is going to feel my wrath.

Professional body for childminders - my ar*e!

No one is gonna shout at you....You did the right thing for you
NCMA should reimberse you as their Website is incorrect.

Big Huggies coming straight back atcha:) xx

little_gems
10-06-2010, 06:47 PM
i have to say i proberly would have given the deposit back as well(even though i would like to think i wouldn't have)

Ncma are :censored: i used to be with them but now with MM. NCMA aren't there when you need the back up and support. saying that though mm arent much better for support!!

I cant see the point of the ncma contacts there now worth the paper there written on. The amount of times ive tryed to sort contarcts out and been told "oh no sorry you wouldn't have a case"

I also have to say though that our local childminging co-ordinators and thier bosses dont seem to be much help either. I sometime wonder whats the point it seems no ones there for us!!!!

Mickey Mouse Clubhouse
10-06-2010, 07:26 PM
Oh pip poor you I would have done the same and gave the deposit back.

I am with NCMA but I am changing to MM as my membership is up in 5 days.

You give NCMA hell they are just a waste of space.

xxx

Minstrel
10-06-2010, 07:36 PM
I think this has tipped me over the edge and made me re-think my insurance. It's up for renewal while i'm on materity leave so will be changing then! :angry:

Tups
10-06-2010, 08:14 PM
I had the same thing happen to me, after keeping a place open for a parent she decided not to go back to work, so i told her i had turned a parent away so i keep the deposit and i did

onceinabluemoon
10-06-2010, 08:20 PM
I'm beginning to think NCMA stands for "No Childminder Matters Actually"! So glad I couldn't afford NCMA when I started and went with MM!

Seriously though, really sad to hear you've been through this, must have been a ruddy nightmare. FWIW I would have done what you did just to have gotten rid of them

Hugs xx

ORKSIE
10-06-2010, 08:39 PM
So glad I couldn't afford NCMA when I started and went with MM!




Same here:clapping: :clapping:

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 08:48 PM
I'm beginning to think NCMA stands for "No Childminder Matters Actually"! Hugs xx

I think that NCMA have gone so far up their own backsides that they have forgotten what they actually should be doing.
I also think NCMA are so damned petrified of getting themselves a bad name or being sued that they should be renamed PC world - they are so PC crazy:(

wendywu
10-06-2010, 08:51 PM
Right so if their contracts are illegal because they say he wrong thing with regards to deopsits, then that means that if a parent does not pay we can stop having the child at once. We cannot be sued for breach of contract if the contract is worthless.

Perhaps they would also like to explain how holiday companies get away with keeping the deposit for a cancelled holiday, when the holiday has not yet started.:angry: Same difference

I suggest that the NCMA sort out a contract that does allow us to keep a deposit.

And yes Pip i think we should do a petition to the NCMA in complaint. I for one will add my name and Ofsted no to it.:thumbsup:

aly
10-06-2010, 08:54 PM
Right so if their contracts are illegal because they say he wrong thing with regards to deopsits, then that means that if a parent does not pay we can stop having the child at once. We cannot be sued for breach of contract if the contract is worthless.

Perhaps they would also like to explain how holiday companies get away with keeping the deposit for a cancelled holiday, when the holiday has not yet started.:angry: Same difference

I suggest that the NCMA sort out a contract that does allow us to keep a deposit.

And yes Pip i think we should do a petition to the NCMA in complaint. I for one will add my name and Ofsted no to it.:thumbsup:
exactly, but they will probably contratict themselves about tht too!

dawn37
10-06-2010, 09:04 PM
Just caught up from earlier, got to say Pip you've done brilliantly to last out as long as you did, I would've ended up just refunding before you did :mad:
I can't believe NCMA contracts are worthless, as a newly registered childminder I'm finding all this very worrying in case I do get into any difficult situations, its not good if they arn't there to back you up:(

She had better leave you alone now, the mad :censored: The police are unbelievable too, I've been very lucky in that my rare experience with the police have been a helpful experience, but I feel so sorry & at the same time furious for you, so sending you another big hug & try (I know I'd stew on it for months:angry: ) to put it behind you, I always find a few drinks help!:blush:
Love Dawn xx

breezy
10-06-2010, 09:04 PM
lots of love and hugs xxxxxxxx

Heaven Scent
10-06-2010, 09:12 PM
I use to sell cars and if someone had paid a deposit, but then changed their mind, we would give back deposit less any expenses we incurred. so if you turned down other parents you would be entitled to keep deposit.

So wish I'd gone to your garage in 2000 when we lost our deposit cause we changed our mind about a car the morning after we paid the deposit - we changed our minds so we lost the deposit n we accepted it - even though the dealer didn't actually have the car in stock they were going to buy it in from another dealer!!!!!!!!!!!

We also lost a deposit we put down on a new stock house - we backed out in favour of a better new house that we were buying off plan - again we changed our minds - so it was our loss!!!!!

The sums of money we lost were way in excess of the small fry figure involved in a childminding deposit.

The Juggler
10-06-2010, 09:16 PM
Right so if their contracts are illegal because they say he wrong thing with regards to deopsits, then that means that if a parent does not pay we can stop having the child at once. We cannot be sued for breach of contract if the contract is worthless.

Perhaps they would also like to explain how holiday companies get away with keeping the deposit for a cancelled holiday, when the holiday has not yet started.:angry: Same difference

I suggest that the NCMA sort out a contract that does allow us to keep a deposit.

And yes Pip i think we should do a petition to the NCMA in complaint. I for one will add my name and Ofsted no to it.:thumbsup:



me too Pip. an official petition from all us forum members might make them sit up and think. I reallly sympathise hon. In your situation and with the useless advice and legal backing I think i would've done the same as you and refunded.

have a large stiif drink honey.x

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 09:36 PM
Perhaps they would also like to explain how holiday companies get away with keeping the deposit for a cancelled holiday, when the holiday has not yet started.:angry: Same difference

thumbsup:

do you know what Wendy - this is the exact question I posed to them - they basically said it wasn't comparable as it is a service we are offering - which is different to the contract the holiday companies offer.
yet in the next breath the bloke was telling me that contract law is contract law.

i have suggested very strongly to some head honcho at NCMA that NCMA better wake up quickly and smell the roses otherwise they are going to have very few members - they need to sort out the contradictions that they keep giving (they are risking sounding like Ofsted!!!), they need to sort out their priorities - ie us the members, they need to hear what us everyday minders are saying instead of being up their own bums.

I am all for a petition but would like to ok it with Pauline as I don't know if she would be happy for it be associated with the forum - as the forum is 'neutral' iyswim. I couldn't write anything up or do disucssion as I am not quick enough of the mark but I am more than happy to instigate if someone is willing to scribe!!!:thumbsup:

As for the silly woman leaving me alone - I have had one last text from her - which i have now ignored - telling me that I am a rip-off merchant and I don't give a stuff about the kids and that makes me a liar as I said I cared about children!!!

Stupid stupid woman. if she texts me any more I will tell her to stop otherwise I will pursue harrassment charges.

I am very determined to slam NCMA for this - and will let rip in no uncertain terms. I am going to tell them I want compensating for there shocking mis-information and misleading info on their own website which is contradictory and wrong to what their own legal team is telling me. I want compensating because they should have told me that the contracts I was using were not that explanatory and has caused me to lose money and I want my years sub refunded.

Pipsqueak
10-06-2010, 09:45 PM
can i suggest to everyone -
TELL NCMA why you are unhappy with them:


NCMA Statement: http://www.*************/about_ncma/contact_us/feedback/compliments_and_complaints.aspx

FEEDBACK POLICY STATEMENT

NCMA’s core purpose is to promote quality home-based childcare for the benefit of children, families and communities. We support and encourage our members to work towards the NCMA Quality Standards and develop professional childcare practices.

We aim to provide a high quality, efficient service to all our stakeholders. We welcome feedback and use it to improve our services, and the way those services are provided.

Scope of the policy
The policy covers feedback regarding the quality of services, how NCMA services are provided, and issues relating to membership.

The policy does not cover contract disputes or employment queries. For support and advice on these, or any childcare issues, please ring the Information Line on 0800 169 4486.

Child protection issues, breaches of national standards including the Early Years Foundation Stage standards for learning, development and care for children in England, or the Early Years Foundation Phase standards for children in Wales will be referred to the appropriate agency.

Standards of service
Where appropriate, NCMA will respond to all feedback within 20 working days of receipt. We will aim to answer all points raised accurately and use plain English (defined by the Plain English Campaign as “something that the intended audience can read, understand, and act upon the first time they read it”). If it is not possible to reply within 20 days we will send you an interim reply explaining the delay and advising when you can expect a full reply.

If you have made a complaint and are not happy with the way it has been dealt with, you can ask for it to be reviewed by a director or manager from another department.

With the exception of information that indicates that a child may be “at risk”, any information provided to us will be treated in confidence and will not be passed on to a third party without your permission. NCMA will keep records of all feedback for a maximum of two years.

How to contact us
Comments, compliments or suggestions can be made by telephone, email or in writing. Complaints should be made in writing. A feedback form can be downloaded from our website www.************* under “Downloads” or obtained from any member of staff, regional office or Head Office. A bi-lingual (English/ Welsh) version is also available on the website. A member of staff will be happy to help you complete the form but you should sign it yourself. Staff can also access a language helpline via Membership Services to support anyone with English as a second language.

Completed feedback forms should be sent for the attention of the Information Officer to:

FREEPOST RLYS-HCZY-HGBL
NCMA
Royal Court
81 Tweedy Road
Bromley, Kent
BR1 1TG

Tel: Switchboard - 0845 880 0044
Direct dial - 020 8290 2523
Fax - 0845 880 0043
E mail - sue.bishop@*************
Website - www.*************

beerheaven
10-06-2010, 09:50 PM
Have just read this whole thread - what a :censored: nightmare for you!!

I am so shocked to read that basically the NCMA contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on. Ever since I registered I have been with NCMA and always felt a sense of security using their paperwork. Now I am very unsure!!

As for you returning the deposit, I feel with this particular parent you did the right thing. God knows what else she may have done.

Sending you hugs hun.

Mouse
11-06-2010, 07:08 AM
What I don't understand is, if the old NCMA contracts are "illegal", why haven't we ever been told? Are we supposed to guess that they're no longer valid?

I have parents that have had the same contract for ages. We review it, but if everything is still the same, we just leave it. So, now I'm assuming they were legally binding when we first signed them, but now they're not?

It really doesn't make sense :panic:

mama2three
11-06-2010, 07:19 AM
wow Pip , I followed the threads yesterday , but hadnt anything constructive to add. You can now feel relieved that you havent actually taken this family onto your books - you can see why the child is a diva! Trust your gut instinct , you felt wrong about this one from the start!

As for ncma , I would be demanding they recompense you for your losses , they have been worse than useless - their information and errors in contracts have caused a huge amount of distress - you should be compensated for that.

Hope youre feeling brighter today , and more positive. You are a credit to childminding - your posts and advice have been so valuable and inspiring - dont let this ****** get you down. :group hug: :group hug:

Pipsqueak
11-06-2010, 07:33 AM
What I don't understand is, if the old NCMA contracts are "illegal", why haven't we ever been told? Are we supposed to guess that they're no longer valid?

I have parents that have had the same contract for ages. We review it, but if everything is still the same, we just leave it. So, now I'm assuming they were legally binding when we first signed them, but now they're not?

It really doesn't make sense :panic:

The old contracts aren't illegal they are still valid - according to what I have been told - its just that they were changed because the deposit section on the first section in the grey area is contradictory to the second sheet in the fees/charges section. I asked the bloke if this is why they were changed and he said possibly.
It was how I filled it out - using that documentation was potentially 'illegal'.
I am just as confused as you are because then I believe if I am using NCMA documentation that depends on how you fill it out - using the sections provided then how on earth can it be valid if its incorrect - really doesn't make sense to me. this is what I will be addrssesing with the idiots that are ncma.

So it that is the case and the contract - depending on how you fill it out, does not apply in certain circumstances
a) whats the point of that contract
b) should NCMA not have informed all its members and people using the contract that there are potential errors in the way they are filling it out. Telling their members that they care so much about that they need to update their documentation.


I believe that as self employed persons NCMA are being too prescriptive in telling us how we can and can't run our businesses. As S/E persons - who the hell are NCMA to tell us what we can and can't do - if its written onto a legally binding contract.


I do feel 'better' today and I am hugely relieved that i have had a lucky escape with this family. You are right i didn't feel right about them from the start but I was trying to think long term financially - this would have been my fees for the third year of uni.:rolleyes:
I am full of fight - with the NCMA and they won't be getting of the hook lightly, I might even take legal advice myself as to where I stand with their catalogue of errors. I am certainly going to be no poster child for them - this is the third time (brian reminded me last night that they let me down over the parents from hell about 6 years back).

Today I am taking down the sign outside my house that says 'mug lives here - come and fleece me'.
I am asking for written clarification from NCMA today of how to fill in their stupid contracts as well.

Daftbat
11-06-2010, 07:40 AM
I am completely disgusted with NCMA and feel so glad that i made the decision 2 years ago to quit them. I have however made a formal complaint on their website following Pips link and i would suggest everyone on here should do the same! Hope you are ok Pip:group hug:

dawn37
11-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Just had a re-check of my NCMA contracts, mine are the English/Welsh version, bearing in mind I've only had my pack just over a month, you would assume that the contracts were up to date versions...it quite clearly states if the parent decides not to take up the place then the retainer may be retained by the childminder. Unless they have changed the contracts within the last 4 weeks, they are talking absolute nonsense, very worrying if these arn't worth the paper they are written on, whats the point of having the contract at all?
Glad you feel a bit better today pip, keep strong xxx

tulip0803
11-06-2010, 10:29 AM
:group hug: Just reading this for the first time as I wasn't on line yesterday. Really sorry that you had to go through that. Complete pants from the legal team again then.:( :mad: :angry:

I had already decided that when my PLI comes up in Sept I am changing to MM & this has confirmed it.

Blaze
11-06-2010, 10:34 AM
Glad you're feeling better today . x

LisaMcNally09
11-06-2010, 11:19 AM
Glad your feeling better hunny!!

You did what was right for your family yesterday and thinknig about it if the woman is still texting even after you refunding then god knows what hassle you would have got if you hadnt!!

I am going to make a complaint following your link also and Im due for renewal in August so will be going with MM also.

Feeling very let down by NCMA on your behalf but thank god for this forum!!!

Massive hugs to you and yours!! xxxxxx

Pipsqueak
11-06-2010, 11:56 AM
I am still really cross at NCMA and in their defence shall we say - I have been speaking to a supervisory lady this morning who rang me to check I was satisfied.
I have told her no I am not and we have had a loooong chat. She has reassured me that I am a valuable member and what I have to say counts, however they won;t refund the rest of my years sub - it is their policy not to, it needs looking into - she agrees, that the website and the legal information is corresponding.
however, she has kindly agreed to send me some (free of charge) new style of contracts.
she has urged me to get back to her if I ever have any queries or problems - believe me I will.

Really, our conversation is no futher forward with resolving my situation - as I pointed out I am out of pocket , not to mention the stress and being made to look like a right idiot.

Now, it really does need all of YOU guys - to let NCMA know about your experiences with them - good or bad, even if you think it doesn't matter now because you have moved on/changed to MM etc you need to let them know why you are unhappy with NCMA. If they don't know then they can't do anything and if there are enough of us saying teh same/similar things then surely they have got to do something.

Playmate
11-06-2010, 05:56 PM
We have decided to make a stand, our insurance is due to renewed now. We have decided although we will remain members of NCMA, we will be going over to MM for our insurance. With Mick now elected for NPF he has to be a member (obviously!) and we feel sorry that we have to make this descision, but we feel NCMA really needs to be looking at the insurance company they are using and some of their legal staff need a brush up. We will be telling NCMA why next week when we phone them.

Toothfairy
11-06-2010, 06:23 PM
My NCMA membership & Insurance are up for renewal at the end of this month.

After reading the many threads over the past year on here, I have decided to keep my Membership but move my Insurance over to MM.

sweets
11-06-2010, 06:25 PM
My NCMA membership & Insurance are up for renewal at the end of this month.

After reading the many threads over the past year on here, I have decided to keep my Membership but move my Insurance over to MM.


i did think of doing this too but then i thought no i will not renew my membership with them as even tho the insurance isnt directly with them they should be supporting us by choosing an insurance company that does work for us if you know what i mean!

Beckieboo
11-06-2010, 07:39 PM
Pip i have just read this post and cant believe it :eek: absolutely gobsmacked!

Sending big hugs, look at it as a lucky escape from the family of hell!!

I have just received my renewal forms from NCMA and have been toying with the idea of changing to MM, but after a few things ive heard my mind is made up! I cant believe what you have been through and completely unsupported and unguided by an organization that is suppose to do exactly that!

Shame on NCMA! :mad: :mad:

wendywu
11-06-2010, 08:36 PM
Pipsqueak;724117]I am still really cross at NCMA and in their defence shall we say - I have been speaking to a supervisory lady this morning who rang me to check I was satisfied.
I have told her no I am not and we have had a loooong chat. She has reassured me that I am a valuable member and what I have to say counts, however they won;t refund the rest of my years sub - it is their policy not to, it needs looking into - she agrees, that the website and the legal information is corresponding.
however, she has kindly agreed to send me some (free of charge) new style of contracts.
she has urged me to get back to her if I ever have any queries or problems - believe me I will.





]

They have made a massive error nation wide that affects thousand of CM and they dont seem that sorry or even disturbed. They just dont care.:censored:

Pipsqueak
11-06-2010, 08:46 PM
[QUOTE=





]

They have made a massive error nation wide that affects thousand of CM and they dont seem that sorry or even disturbed. They just dont care.:censored:

oh but they do care Wendy - they are sending me a packet of new contracts to go some way in making up for my distress!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
i mean i appreciate the gesture, however they refused to refund me the rest of my years subs!
I will give the lady her due - she has listened to me - whether she has heard me I don't know but I am putting in an official complaint. she couldn't tell me what NCMA's next moves are going to be but i have recommended that they look at this forum and get their own website sorted out asap.

manjay
12-06-2010, 09:02 AM
I too have asked Richard Aris of NCMA to have a look at this thread and respond. After all it is in the public area of the forum and this message will be going out to thousands. NCMA need to understand the ramifications of continuing to use insurance companies that don't fit in with the ethos of NCMA.

Personally for me I want to do something about this as I believe that fundamentally NCMA is a worthwhile organisation (maybe I am in a minority but hey I am a big girl and I can deal with that;) ) and that is why I have become a member of the Regional Organising Committee to get my views heard.

I seriously hope they take notice.

sarah707
12-06-2010, 02:12 PM
I too have asked Richard Aris of NCMA to have a look at this thread and respond. After all it is in the public area of the forum and this message will be going out to thousands.

Ah... Pips asked for it to be moved to green members so as not to frighten newbies!!

Not sure what to do... Pips would need to make the decision to put it back :D

Pipsqueak
12-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Ah... Pips asked for it to be moved to green members so as not to frighten newbies!!

Not sure what to do... Pips would need to make the decision to put it back :D

Oh! Not sure what to do now then...... would everyone prefer for this to be back in the public area?
The reason I asked for it to be moved was that this perhaps might be a 'horror story' too far for some newbies. I understand that most newbies will be using the newer type contracts and perhaps more adequately covered. I also appreciate that some people are happy with NCMA and have received good service from them.

If the general consenus is that this would be better of in the public area I am happy to go along with this. If NCMA want to come on and view what people are saying about them and what their gripes are then perhaps in all fairness then yes this thread should remain in other part so that they have a chance to defend themselves.

If everyone agrees that it should be moved back (sorry Sarah!) then I am happy for it to go back to its orginal place.

wendywu
12-06-2010, 03:29 PM
I think the NCMA should be able to read what we its members are concerned about.

It may even help them to get back in touch with the basic personal side of the job we do. See us as people who deal with stress and pressure every day from mindees, parents, and Ofsted and what we DONT need is yet MORE stress we turn with a problem to the very people WE PAY to help us.:panic:

Playmate
12-06-2010, 03:40 PM
I too have asked Richard Aris of NCMA to have a look at this thread and respond. After all it is in the public area of the forum and this message will be going out to thousands. NCMA need to understand the ramifications of continuing to use insurance companies that don't fit in with the ethos of NCMA.

Personally for me I want to do something about this as I believe that fundamentally NCMA is a worthwhile organisation (maybe I am in a minority but hey I am a big girl and I can deal with that;) ) and that is why I have become a member of the Regional Organising Committee to get my views heard.

I seriously hope they take notice.

Totally behind you on this one Manjay :thumbsup: Thats why why Mick and I joined our ROC and Mick elected as NPF. I think this thread should be seen by Richard to.

Pipsqueak
12-06-2010, 04:22 PM
OK I am fine with it being put back in the more public area.
Will ask Sarah to do it.

sarah707
12-06-2010, 05:45 PM
OK I am fine with it being put back in the more public area.
Will ask Sarah to do it.

Moved back. If you change your mind for any reason Pips please let one of us know :D

I have always felt that the NCMA are supposed to be there to help its members and to work with them to promote and support childminders.

If that help is not being given and they are not listening to their members then surely they are failing in their remit.

If something as important as information being posted wrongly on the NCMA website is happening then I am sure it makes members wonder what else is going on behind the scenes that is wrong in the organisation??

We have members upset that appropriate help has not been given when they are in desperate need of that help... such posts reflect badly on the NCMA whether they say it is BlueFin's responsibility or try to say it is RSA's responsibility.

Here are 2 more threads that the NCMA really ought to read...

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=60749&highlight=ncma

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=60729&highlight=ncma

:D

Pipsqueak
12-06-2010, 06:14 PM
Thank you Sarah:thumbsup:

Hopefully someone from NCMA might have a look and take some notice


NCMA - if you read this - please recognise that even your own legal experts say that your website is WRONG:
http://www.*************/for_parents/working_with_your_childminder/deposits_and_settling_in.aspx

appalling advice, guidance and support from you NCMA - causing me to lose money, lose face, causing me no end of stress - affecting my own, family and working life. It comes to something doesn;t it when your OWN legal blokey tells me that if he were advising the parent - that he would tell them that they had a good case to take to court to recover the money.:rolleyes:

Someone up there in their smashing Bromley office needs to get back in touch with what us on the ground childminders NEED in our day to day lives in terms of support.

aly
12-06-2010, 06:24 PM
Ordered some stationary from ncma on wednesday and they turned up yesterday :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Mickey Mouse Clubhouse
12-06-2010, 07:17 PM
I have just gone with MM as I feel NCMA do nothing for me at all, when I had a problem a couple of years ago they were not really interested.

My insurance is due on Monday and I have just gone with MM.

Good for you Pip I would take this as far as you can.

xxx

Playmate
12-06-2010, 07:17 PM
Ordered some stationary from ncma on wednesday and they turned up yesterday :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Yes one area that has much improved, we ordered stationary Monday and recieved it Wednesday, we were gob smacked :D

karen m
12-06-2010, 08:09 PM
would not give deposit back as everyone says she that is the idea of a deposit to hold place:angry:

babs
12-06-2010, 09:27 PM
well after reading all 8 pages of this thread i am sending ypu some hugs pip... i wouldnt like to have gone though what you have and hope i never do, my membership and insurance are up for renewel in sept and i think i will be changing to mm... i have just posted a thread about ncma website and after reading this i dont think i should of bothered .......:group hug: :group hug:

christine e
13-06-2010, 06:35 AM
I too have asked Richard Aris of NCMA to have a look at this thread and respond. After all it is in the public area of the forum and this message will be going out to thousands. NCMA need to understand the ramifications of continuing to use insurance companies that don't fit in with the ethos of NCMA.

Personally for me I want to do something about this as I believe that fundamentally NCMA is a worthwhile organisation (maybe I am in a minority but hey I am a big girl and I can deal with that;) ) and that is why I have become a member of the Regional Organising Committee to get my views heard.

I seriously hope they take notice.

I too have been in contact with Richard Aris and pointed all this out to him.

Are you going to the volunteer conference on the 26th? I know Mick M is as he has been elected as NPF perhaps the 3 of us could have a chat about this there.

Cx

manjay
13-06-2010, 07:39 AM
I too have been in contact with Richard Aris and pointed all this out to him.

Are you going to the volunteer conference on the 26th? I know Mick M is as he has been elected as NPF perhaps the 3 of us could have a chat about this there.

Cx

Yes I am Christine. I will see you there x

Pipsqueak
13-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Formal complaint made to NCMA and to Richard Aris
Am considering seeking further advice

Bananabrain
13-06-2010, 01:08 PM
You go girl!
Sock it to 'em!

The Juggler
13-06-2010, 01:33 PM
Formal complaint made to NCMA and to Richard Aris
Am considering seeking further advice

Glad you made it to him Pip and glad the NPF members are going to raise the seriousness of these issues. Hope that they do realise how many people are reading these threads and are feeling unhappy. Seems so many of us have raised the issues at regional forums and directly with NCMA (by e-mail and phone) but we're getting no-where.

How are you feeling Pip?

Pipsqueak
13-06-2010, 01:59 PM
I'm feeling better Juggler. I have taken a stand at least and made official complaints. I am contemplating taking further advice as well because to me NCMA have failed me big time here when all I done was use the documentation that they tell us we HAVE to use to be covered and secure, I have follwed their advice - which is obviously WRONG on their website.
they haven't kept members up to date with what is obviously a concern. (Although apparently I am the first ever person to have this problem according to the legal blokey).
NCMA have caused me distress and stress (resulting in me being quite poorly), loss of money first from the parent demanding her deposit back and secondly from the job that I turned away thinking I was covered by the original contract with parent 1 in case anything went wrong.

What i am goin to do is completely review my fees and charging etc. And totally run it through NCMA. I want it watertight in future.

Their customer service is basically appalling and they won't even refund me my subs so I can swop over. Any other appalling customer service rendered would result in the business or organisationn shamefacedly trying to placate and restore confidence.

NCMA have got to start taking notice of the people they are supposed to represent - surely.

The Juggler
13-06-2010, 02:39 PM
I'm feeling better Juggler. I have taken a stand at least and made official complaints. I am contemplating taking further advice as well because to me NCMA have failed me big time here when all I done was use the documentation that they tell us we HAVE to use to be covered and secure, I have follwed their advice - which is obviously WRONG on their website.
they haven't kept members up to date with what is obviously a concern. (Although apparently I am the first ever person to have this problem according to the legal blokey).
NCMA have caused me distress and stress (resulting in me being quite poorly), loss of money first from the parent demanding her deposit back and secondly from the job that I turned away thinking I was covered by the original contract with parent 1 in case anything went wrong.

What i am goin to do is completely review my fees and charging etc. And totally run it through NCMA. I want it watertight in future.

Their customer service is basically appalling and they won't even refund me my subs so I can swop over. Any other appalling customer service rendered would result in the business or organisationn shamefacedly trying to placate and restore confidence.

NCMA have got to start taking notice of the people they are supposed to represent - surely.

I totally agree - lobbying for us as a profession means diddly squat if there is no on the ground support. I would be doing exactly the same in your shoes. sending a hug.x

Pipsqueak
13-06-2010, 03:43 PM
http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=725381#post725381

marzi
13-06-2010, 04:43 PM
Hi Pip,

I've just read all 8 pages of this thread.

Firstly let me say i hope your recovering from this awful experience, these 'people' behaved shamefully.

Secondly, as to you thinking this would be a bit of a horror story for new minders well, it is a little but i'm not put off minding by it. Its good to know its not a regular thing and that the support we would get on this forum is better than ncma by miles. At least we have support somewhere. Its definitely better to be in a public area of the forum so we can all see that this career is not a picnic sometimes. I'm disappointed that as my first years insurance is funded i will have to go with 'them' :angry: but i will change to MM as soon as i am able to.

I was told on my ICP that we don't have to be members of the ncma but it 'looks good' to parents, more professional. But what is the point if they don't offer support when its most needed and as to their website being wrong well thats not very professional of them is it.

:group hug:

judisteve
13-06-2010, 06:26 PM
I'm new here and almost a registered childminder. From one point of view I find it hard to believe that this sort of thing goes on - unfortunately thats the world we live in.

I hope you are feeling better now and just wanted to say thanks for sharing it. It's certainly opened my eyes as to what I need to be prepared for!

I'd already decided I was going to use MM once I'm registered. However, I've been given the purple box by my Borough so was going to use NCMA contracts (albeit 5 years old:( ). I've checked this out with MM and they said you are not obliged to use their own paperwork. However, would your advice be for me to use MM paperwork if that's who I'm insured with to try and keep it simple if anything like this was to happen to me? Is anyone able to tell me how different the MM paperwork is the NCMA - what's their view on deposits/retainers?

Think I've almost gone off the thread now so will stop there - keep up the good work Pip and I'm sure a much nicer family will come your way soon!
Judi

sarah707
13-06-2010, 08:31 PM
I was told on my ICP that we don't have to be members of the ncma but it 'looks good' to parents, more professional. But what is the point if they don't offer support when its most needed and as to their website being wrong well thats not very professional of them is it.

:group hug:

I think that's total poppycock!

I've never been a member of the NCMA and don't believe my business has suffered for it.

I don't feel the need to pay extra money out so people think I'm more professional!!

the parents don't give a hoot anyway! :rolleyes:

I do feel the NCMA does good work for childminders and if they reduced their membership fee I would consider joining.

My insurance has always been from Morton Michel though.

:D

Pipsqueak
13-06-2010, 08:38 PM
Hi Pip,

I've just read all 8 pages of this thread.



I was told on my ICP that we don't have to be members of the ncma but it 'looks good' to parents, more professional. But what is the point if they don't offer support when its most needed and as to their website being wrong well thats not very professional of them is it.

:group hug:

What a lot of tosh - who was running the ICP - LA or NCMA? No matter which organisation you are with - its YOU who makes you the professional. I am willing to bet 99% of parents don't have a clue about NCMA. I am so shocked that a fellow colleague would have said something like that - well actually no I am not sadly

Pipsqueak
14-06-2010, 01:51 PM
just to keep you informed Mr Aris has very promptly acknowledged my email. he has asked for some additional information (the reverse of the contract) - which I have emailed to him, so he can investigate further.
Will keep you informed as I am informed (am impressed at the speed of the reply:thumbsup: )

rickysmiths
14-06-2010, 02:53 PM
just to keep you informed Mr Aris has very promptly acknowledged my email. he has asked for some additional information (the reverse of the contract) - which I have emailed to him, so he can investigate further.
Will keep you informed as I am informed (am impressed at the speed of the reply:thumbsup: )


Pip have you thought about copying all this to Suzzanna Dawson the NCMA Chair? After all she is a working Childminder 3 days a week so she would relate to the problems you have been having.

Pipsqueak
14-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Pip have you thought about copying all this to Suzzanna Dawson the NCMA Chair? After all she is a working Childminder 3 days a week so she would relate to the problems you have been having.

I might do, if I feel like i am not getting anywhere. I have put in a formal complaint and cc'd it to Mr Aris at this stage.
thank you for the suggestion though Ricky - appreciate that.

Blue Boy
14-06-2010, 03:34 PM
I too have been in contact with Richard Aris and pointed all this out to him.

Are you going to the volunteer conference on the 26th? I know Mick M is as he has been elected as NPF perhaps the 3 of us could have a chat about this there.

Cx Hi Christine, WE rang NCMA this morning to renew our membership and when asked about insurance I advised the very helpful lady that we would not be renew our insurance with NCMA. When asked why I advised her of our reasons to which she rather taken aback (I believe this was a genuine reaction!). She asked if she could get her line magaer (Guess Who :( ) to give me a call to discuss the issue within the next 2 hours. This was at about 10:30 this message is timed at 16:30 and have no call. I did mention to the lady that his name has been mentioned on the forum (maybe that is why he has not called:rolleyes: )

I agree that we meet up and discuss the matter and present a united front. The more people who bring the issue to the front something may be done. I think you will recognise we as I think I will be the only male a the conference, so I will leave it up to you to seek me out. Look forward to meeting you, Manjay and Madminder :rolleyes:.

Pipsqueak
14-06-2010, 03:52 PM
to give me a call to discuss the issue within the next 2 hours. This was at about 10:30 this message is timed at 16:30 and have no call.

why doesn't that surprise me! I waited once for a whole 3 days for NCMA to call me back!

Blue Boy
14-06-2010, 03:55 PM
If you didn't already know you have loads of support on this forum;) and if we can help not only you but others by bringing this issue to the powers to be we will try:thumbsup:

Pipsqueak
14-06-2010, 04:07 PM
If you didn't already know you have loads of support on this forum;) and if we can help not only you but others by bringing this issue to the powers to be we will try:thumbsup:

Mick - the support on this forum is second to none.:clapping:
I have to say that the support I get from my local NCMA team (based here in my home town) is excellent. They have supported me from the outset and are there when i need them. They have become friends as well as colleagues, in particular one lady.
:D

The Juggler
14-06-2010, 05:49 PM
Mick - the support on this forum is second to none.:clapping:
I have to say that the support I get from my local NCMA team (based here in my home town) is excellent. They have supported me from the outset and are there when i need them. They have become friends as well as colleagues, in particular one lady.
:D

glad he called you back so promptly Pip and Mick, Manjay Madminder, hopefully we are finally making them sit up and listen so hope things go well at the meeting.

Pipsqueak
15-06-2010, 03:42 PM
UPDATE:

Well, NCMA have been extremely prompt in dealing with my complaint and concerns. I have had some excellent customer service.
The matter has been resolved to my satisfaction. In agreement with NCMA I cannot disclose the details, however I will say well done NCMA, you are listening and you have proved it. Thank you.

I will say to everyone, if you do have a complaint or concern regarding any part of (including insurance, legal etc) NCMA they NEED to know about it. This is the only way things can get changed - if they don't know about it, then they can't do anything.

I have been reassured by NCMA's actions and words. There a changes afoot and they NEED to hear from you so that they can put the right support in place.

Thank you everyone for your support.

christine e
15-06-2010, 04:23 PM
Hi Christine, WE rang NCMA this morning to renew our membership and when asked about insurance I advised the very helpful lady that we would not be renew our insurance with NCMA. When asked why I advised her of our reasons to which she rather taken aback (I believe this was a genuine reaction!). She asked if she could get her line magaer (Guess Who :( ) to give me a call to discuss the issue within the next 2 hours. This was at about 10:30 this message is timed at 16:30 and have no call. I did mention to the lady that his name has been mentioned on the forum (maybe that is why he has not called:rolleyes: )

I agree that we meet up and discuss the matter and present a united front. The more people who bring the issue to the front something may be done. I think you will recognise we as I think I will be the only male a the conference, so I will leave it up to you to seek me out. Look forward to meeting you, Manjay and Madminder :rolleyes:.

Hi Mick

I did see you at the conference in Leeds but I was only there for the day and didn't manage to get over and speak to you and Sally. I was the one who seconded the resolution about data protection,I tripped up as I got on to the stage:laughing: .

See you 26th

Christine

Blue Boy
15-06-2010, 06:55 PM
Hi Mick

I did see you at the conference in Leeds but I was only there for the day and didn't manage to get over and speak to you and Sally. I was the one who seconded the resolution about data protection,I tripped up as I got on to the stage:laughing: .

See you 26th

Christine

You must have done it with so much grace I can't remember thr trip;)