How do you charge for Disabled Children ?

[Marshmallow]

Hi,

Please can you help?
I have been asked to care for a youngster of 7 in a Wheelchair, how do I charge for this?:blush:

[beccas]

like any other child cos its all about equality .....

[Hebs]

yeah, why would you charge any different?

[Pipsqueak]

i would charge as i would for any other child.

the only time I would consider upping my charges is if a child requires more one on one care and I would not be able to care for another child (fill another space) due to this. this is how our network operates as well - as many of the children via the network are severely/profoundly disabled.

I think you have asked this in a genuine manner and like they say, if you are unsure of the answer then its not a stupid question.:)

[mama2three]

Are you thinking of charging extra? not sure how you could warrant that tbh . it is discrimination. You should decide whether or not you can care well for this child alongside your other mindees , just as you would for any new mindee.

[breezy]

Are you thinking of charging extra? not sure how you could warrant that tbh . it is discrimination. You should decide whether or not you can care well for this child alongside your other mindees , just as you would for any new mindee.

exactly!!!!!

[miffy]

Are you thinking of charging extra? not sure how you could warrant that tbh . it is discrimination. You should decide whether or not you can care well for this child alongside your other mindees , just as you would for any new mindee.

I think it depends, like Pip's said, if the child needs more one-to-one care and you couldn't care for another child, surely then you could charge more?

Otherwise I'd agree with you.

Miffy xx

[sandy64]

the fees the same as any other child wouldnt evan think of charging different only time i may charge or ask parents to provide is any equipment child may need that i hadnt got,

[Chell]

If the child is in a wheelchair then it would be impossible to take him/her out at the same time as a child in a buggy. This could make it difficult for you to look after other children at the same time so it wouldn't be discriminating to ask for more money IMO.

[Hebs]

If the child is in a wheelchair then it would be impossible to take him/her out at the same time as a child in a buggy. This could make it difficult for you to look after other children at the same time so it wouldn't be discriminating to ask for more money IMO.

personally i think it would :panic:
if you can not do it then you can say no, but i don't think you should charge more money

the child might be in an electric wheelchair so wouldn't impact you as he/she is 7 and not a youngster

my advice is to speak to the parents fully to see if you could provide the right setting :thumbsup:

[Mollymop]

If the child is in a wheelchair then it would be impossible to take him/her out at the same time as a child in a buggy. This could make it difficult for you to look after other children at the same time so it wouldn't be discriminating to ask for more money IMO.

I agree. If parents are ok with this, then I think yes you should charge extra. It is not discrimination imo to charge extra if the child requires more one to one care

I used to mind a child with Down's and still have her now and again when needed. I have so many minders say they would charge the parents extra as she is difficult to look after but I never have as I think it is wrong to do this. But if she was in a wheelchair which meant I couldn't care for another younger child and couldn't fill my space then I would ask for more money to cover this. But only in this exception!

xx

[Pipsqueak]

personally i think it would :panic:
if you can not do it then you can say no, but i don't think you should charge more money

the child might be in an electric wheelchair so wouldn't impact you as he/she is 7 and not a youngster

my advice is to speak to the parents fully to see if you could provide the right setting :thumbsup:

Hebs - our network has talked to DaD and KiDs network and yes you can charge more if a child was to take up what is in effective two spaces.
of course the OP (or any practitioner) must always talk to the parent and consider the impact on their exisiting practice and be realistic about what they can and can't offer.

[Hebs]

sorry pip but i think it's so wrong, if you can't provide the level of service required then don't do it but to charge more :panic: :panic:

sorry but i think it is so wrong on so many levels :(

[beccas]

hebs i agree i am sure she wouldnt get double childcare paid just cos hes disabled....

[breezy]

hebs i agree i am sure she wouldnt get double childcare paid just cos hes disabled....

I agree too

[Mollymop]

hebs i agree i am sure she wouldnt get double childcare paid just cos hes disabled....

No, they wouldn't you are right there.
But they would get DLA - to help out with the costs of everyday living

If we all said "no, sorry" to all children that are disabled in a wheelchair, who needs constant one to one attention, more so than a young baby would, because we didn't want to charge extra and we had no space available "just in case" we took on an able child or 2, then what would happen to the all the children who are disabled and their parents then?? Would there be many minders out there that would take on a child in a wheelchair who needed one to one and not fill other spaces because they know they wouldn't be able to cope?

I think it is not greedy to charge more, or unjustifable, or wrong at all. :) Imo:)

[peanuts]

same charge for one and all

[Hebs]

No, they wouldn't you are right there.
But they would get DLA - to help out with the costs of everyday living


exactly to pay for everyday living not childcare :panic:

my son used to get DLA and i used it to pay for his tutor to help him not to pay for higher childcare fees

and not everyong with a disability gets DLA, my sister has no feeling in her leg and is wheelchair bound yet doesn't qualify for DLA or incapicity benefit :panic:

parents of severly disabled children stay at home and look after their kids not many parents of children who'd need one on one care do actually go out to work, i know if my child was that bad i'd be at home caring for them myself.

:(

[karen m]

i think you should charge your normal fee,

[Pipsqueak]

sorry pip but i think it's so wrong, if you can't provide the level of service required then don't do it but to charge more :panic: :panic:

sorry but i think it is so wrong on so many levels :(

As a network we offer 'specialised' quality assured childcare (thats not to say no one else can) to families /children with severe/profound/complex disabilities and needs. It was noted that we may not be able to fill our other spaces due to the level of care that was to be provided and the disability organisations/social services etc agreed that we (minders) needed to be compensated for the other spaces we would not be able to fill.

Do you remember me saying to you about the baby i was asked to care for. There was a higher level of pay accompanying that placement if it went ahead. If the parents wanted care in my own home for that child it would have meant that I could not have filled me other space due to the level of care this child required. Failing that it would have meant me refusing care based on meeting my own financial needs as a business mum! Iyswim.

Another network member who co-minds meanign they have double the spaces, they have a child via the network who in effect takes up two of their spaces due to the level of care he needs. I can pronounce let alone spell his condition but having met this child on several occasions (he is a terrific little boy) he really does merit taking up two spaces.

I suppose if you don't agree with it I can sort of understand but i am talking about children who really do need a high level of constant care - meaning that you would be very limited to the care you could offer other children.

[Pipsqueak]

parents of severly disabled children stay at home and look after their kids not many parents of children who'd need one on one care do actually go out to work, i know if my child was that bad i'd be at home caring for them myself.

:(

a survey done in our local area which then went national - indicates that many parents of severely disabled children WANT to be treated 'normally' and that includes being offered childcare but they understand that a higher rate of pay to the carer may occasionally be justified. I will see if I can dig out the report for you.
these parents want to be able to go out to work, knowing that there is adequate childcare out there. why wouldn't they want to go out to work just like any other parent.

[Hebs]

still dont agree with it :(

[Hebs]

a survey done in our local area which then went national - indicates that many parents of severely disabled children WANT to be treated 'normally' and that includes being offered childcare but they understand that a higher rate of pay to the carer may occasionally be justified. I will see if I can dig out the report for you.
these parents want to be able to go out to work, knowing that there is adequate childcare out there. why wouldn't they want to go out to work just like any other parent.

as the mother of a disabled child i know if my son required that level of care i'd be at home with him, the fact that he has ADHD (which in comparisson to some disabilities isnt that bad) was enough for me to want to be at home to provide the care he needs.

if i did go out to work i wouldnt expect to be charged a higher rate for childcare :panic:

[Pipsqueak]

as the mother of a disabled child i know if my son required that level of care i'd be at home with him, the fact that he has ADHD (which in comparisson to some disabilities isnt that bad) was enough for me to want to be at home to provide the care he needs.

if i did go out to work i wouldnt expect to be charged a higher rate for childcare :panic:

thats your perogative hebs and I am not saying you are wrong:) I am sure there were parents who disagreed with what the report concluded but the majority were in support of it.

I will say in my defence - offering the service that I do - there are many childcare provisions that do not and will not offer the level of childcare I am prepared to do (although they hide it well with cover stories) I could not sustain my business or feed my children or pay my bills if I took on a child that required such a level of care that i could not fill my other spaces.
so the alternative would be that I do not offer that type of care thus the parents may be forced to seek out care that is not highly trained, highly supported or quality assured.
This is how our network started out - in response to the local report, putting together adequate childcare provision that parents wanted and needed. the network has grown and has a really good reputation.


(I am not saying that people who care for disabled children who are not on a network are not qualified or trained or adequate though)

[Pipsqueak]

http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/everychildmatters/_download/?id=7222

Have a look at page 7/8 where the research indicates what the providers say
(aiming high)
I will have to find the other reports at some point (will ask my co-ordinator after the weekend)

I have attended several events on behalf of the network, where I have met the parents who are wanting childcare for whatever reasons and its the parents who have been struggling to get people to listen to them about what THEY want, not what other people think they should have or do. They talked about people talk over their disabled child but they also talk AT the parent and treat them in the same manner as they do the child - out of pure ignorance.

Apart from DLA there are other methods of accessing childcare funding for these pleaces for children.

this has sparked a good debate though:) :thumbsup:

[aly]

When I was going through the network we were told what to expect when taking placements for children from them...and also to keep 1 space free...and we would be paid a certain amount [usually higher thatn our normal fee} to take in account the space being taken.....and were told if we took on someone that needed that 1to 1 care we could charge more as we are losing out on income.

I agree with Hebs that if my child had a dissability where my child needed the 1to 1 care then I very much doubt I would be working...fair enough if it was respite {my friend does this} as that is different.

I don't agree with charging just because the child has a disability, I think the oP needs to come back and explain more of the situation.

[Mouse]

I have looked after a child with some quite severe disabilities. I was asked to do it by the team involved in her care & I was told they would pay me an enhanced rate as I would need to give one-to-one care for this child. They actually paid me for more that 3 spaces.
I did the work for almost a year, giving the mum a much needed break. She already knew me & I was the only person she would trust with her child.

There'd have been no way I could care for another child at the same time. It wouldn't have been fair on this particular child, or any other children, who wouldn't have had the right level of attention from me.

I felt no qualms at all about charging such a high fee as this child did take all 3 of my spaces on the days she was here.

But, I would never consider charging an enhanced rate just because a child had additional needs. If they were one of my 3 minded children, they would be charged at exactly the same rate as the others.

[Hebs]

IF a "team" such as social services are paying and want to take up extra spaces then thats up to them i suppose, but to charge higher "just because" is wrong, as a family can not claim unlimited ammounts of childcare fees for 1 child through tax credits (max is £140 a week for one child) and obvioulsy if you charged more they WOULD be being discriminated against IMO

[Pipsqueak]

I don't agree with charging just because the child has a disability, I think the oP needs to come back and explain more of the situation.

Absolutely, just because a child has a disability or additional needs then of course an enhanced rate is not always justified or necessary. The children that come through the network are already assessed as to the level of care they need and the rate of pay offered (there are three levels to cover costs).
As with any contract there is 'pre-contract work' in working with the family and relevant specialists - often building up a relationship with the family prior to the child starting - this often goes beyond your normal settling in sessions.
Perhaps I have muddied the waters on this thread by going beyond what the OP was asking - sorry:blush:

[Hebs]

this has sparked a good debate though:) :thumbsup:

oh yeah i agree

but it has also saddend me so much that people think it's ok to charge a higher rate for disabled children, but maybe thats because i have a disabled child and can view it from the parents point of view too :thumbsup:

[Pipsqueak]

IF a "team" such as social services are paying and want to take up extra spaces then thats up to them i suppose, but to charge higher "just because" is wrong, as a family can not claim unlimited ammounts of childcare fees for 1 child through tax credits (max is £140 a week for one child) and obvioulsy if you charged more they WOULD be being discriminated against IMO

I understand what you are saying Hebs and i would never just charge extra because a child is disabled. However if a family approached me independently (outside of the network) and I believed that the level of care needed was outside the one child space (iyswim) then yes i would take further advice about charging a higher rate.
I cannot afford to have spaces that I cannot use because of the care i need to devote to one child.

[rachelle]

I have a child who is a wheelchair user - he's my own. He also as asperges, mild hearing loss and a speech disorder BUT he takes up no more of my time that any of my mindees. I think the generic term 'disabled children' is part of the problem in an emotional debate. He IS disabled BUT his additional needs are mobility based largely and I would hope wouldn't affect his rate if childminded.

A buggy pod will fit on a non self propel wheelchair (the ones with the small wheels!)
A child who needs no additional seating supports can sit comfortably in a major buggy - doubles of these are available

If he had a need for suction, food pumps, monitoring of O2 levels, meds etc then yes I would expect to be paying more as I would want the attention on those needs but would prob (personally) employ an SN nanny.

Disabled is an umbrella term, individual needs would decide for me the level of care I could guarantee.

[hello kitty]

Mmmmm interesting. Have to say, it would not cross my mind to consider charging extra for a disabled child. I would however consider how looking after that child would impact on the care I am able to give to my existing mindees.

[Pipsqueak]

http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/pns/DisplayPN.cgi?pn_id=2010_0003

[moljak]

have to say this thread has made really interesting reading.
I personally would assess every childs individual needs and discuss the needs of the child with the parent.Only then would I be able to decide on how I'd meet the needs of the child and my other mindees.If the child needed one to one care and stopped me from taking on other children then unfortunately I'd have to look at charging more.That's because I need to support my family and have bills to pay.If that's wrong then............:o

[sweets]

i look after a child with lots of additional needs, i am paid through social services at an enhanced rate which is nearly double the usual rate of pay for my area. i take on other children as well as he really isnt much harder work than them.

his mum goes to work and why shouldnt she just because she has a disabled child? that wouldnt be equality!

he is quite disabled and has no mobility but he is not ill or poorly! he doesnt need his mother 24/7, just because of his needs.

People need to understand that special needs children don't have an illness, they are not looking for a cure only acceptance.

i was approached by my network to look after him and am happy to be paid the enhanced rate but if his mum had come to me indepandantly then i prob wouild have charged her normal rate.

[wendywu]

but it has also saddend me so much that people think it's ok to charge a higher rate for disabled children, but maybe thats because i have a disabled child and can view it from the parents point of view too :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

There is disabled and DISABLED. I have cared for children with ADAH and still care for a child with autism, normal rate.

How ever a friend as i have stated before cares for a 7 year old in nappies, who smears feces every where, throws things ( and he is a very strong large boy) eats every thing, mud, rubbish, dead leaves. This makes him vomit. He breaks every thing he can lay his hands on, he gets in a terrible temper as he cannot speak very well.
But she loves him and he is so lucky to have him as her minder.
BUT either she has to reduce her numbers when she has him or pay an assistant. She why should she not have a rate to reflect this.

You are inclusive if you take on a child like this. What you charge is entirely up to you.

[PixiePetal]

have to say this thread has made really interesting reading.
I personally would assess every childs individual needs and discuss the needs of the child with the parent.Only then would I be able to decide on how I'd meet the needs of the child and my other mindees.If the child needed one to one care and stopped me from taking on other children then unfortunately I'd have to look at charging more.That's because I need to support my family and have bills to pay.If that's wrong then............:o

Very interesting thread.

I feel the same as you and unfortunatly as I also need money for bills etc, would have to consider an enhanced rate - for me to afford to give the child the best care possible and maybe not take on others. :o

[TheBTeam]

Read this with interest, I have two trains of thought, i probably wouldn't take on a child at any rate that needed a high level of individual care, simply because I have two children of my own and a busy life, and dont feel that i could give that level of care without resenting it slightly, so i dont think at any price I would do it for a long day. That said if a child came along that was during school hours term time only and didnt impact on my childrens lives outside, then maybe I would, but if the child required that level of support making it impossible to care for other children at the same time, I would have no choice but to charge for the places to be able to live.

It is also difficult because working with dh means we can have 6 children under 5, so one child needing a very high level of care would quite possibly mean 5 spaces not able to be used.

I dont agree with a sweeping statement that you should charge more simply because the are 'disabled' though, I think it should come down to the exact requirements of the parents, whether they want/need sole care for the child, the actual amount/impact of care to your setting etc.

[Dare4Distance]

Hebs, I think you're taking peoples posts the wrong way IMO.

Nobody is saying they would charge more for everyone with a disability. They're saying they would charge more if the childs disability meant he/she needed extra one2one care and it meant not being able to take on other children.
Obviously you wouldn't be charged more for your son because he has ADHD. Unless, like Moljak said, he needed constant one2one attention.

I personally think turning away a child because they are disabled is worse than charging more to look after them. I would have no problem caring for a severely disabled child, on his/her own but I would need to be paid a higher rate. If not I would be working a job for £3.50 an hour which is just crazy.

[TheBTeam]

Hebs, I think you're taking peoples posts the wrong way IMO.

Nobody is saying they would charge more for everyone with a disability. They're saying they would charge more if the childs disability meant he/she needed extra one2one care and it meant not being able to take on other children.
Obviously you wouldn't be charged more for your son because he has ADHD. Unless, like Moljak said, he needed constant one2one attention.

I personally think turning away a child because they are disabled is worse than charging more to look after them. I would have no problem caring for a severely disabled child, on his/her own but I would need to be paid a higher rate. If not I would be working a job for £3.50 an hour which is just crazy.

Same here, it would completely depend on the length of the day, the actual amount of care required, and the willingness/need of the parent to have or need sole care.

[Hebs]

Hebs, I think you're taking peoples posts the wrong way IMO.
.

well i don't :rolleyes:

the OP asked how much to charge for a 7 year old in a wheelchair who is to say that this child needs any extra care?
she wasn't asking about a child on breathing machines, needing constant meds feeding tubes etc :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[PixiePetal]

The OP is a pre reg CM asking for advice and only giving brief details - we can't read too much into it without knowing more.

We don't know any more about her or the childs circumstances. Keep an open mind until we do :rolleyes:

Disabilities don't come generalised, each case on it's own merits with solutions decided between the parties concerned.

[mushpea]

I looked after a child with cerbal palsy, at the time he was under 2, so could still fit in a 'normal' buggy and apart from physio and a different way of serving his food there was no more work involved than if he was ,say, a baby so i didnt charge more, if it had got to the point where he needed a wheel chair and other specialist care or treatments that meant i couldnt take on other children then i would have charged more to reflect this, not becuase hes disabled but because i cant fill the other spaces, its no different to if you take on a child that requires 3 days a week on a rota , you would charge a retainer for the other 2 days you cant fill therefore charging more for that child than another child who would come 3 set days a week. parent pays for the space not the child therefore it is not discrmination. (IMO).
i also have a SEN child of my own but his needs are not enough that i couldnt take on a child so therefore i wouldnt excpect to be charged more for him.

[The Juggler]

As everyone else has said I wouldn't charge more because a child is disabled but I would charge parents more if the child would need to take up more than one registered space (just as I would if an non-registered disabled child needed more than one space i.e. for rolling shift patterns etc) where you would charge an enhanced hourly rate or a retainer for those days.

I don't think that is wrong and I think the OP is just asking a question - no more offensive than a pre-reg CM who doesn't know about policies/late fees - we all learn as we go along in this job - that's what we are here for:). As someone else said SS pay more for their placements and the OP may have heard about this.

So to the OP, depends on the circumstnaces. If this child will take up a usual space and does not prevent you taking on the number of children you otherwise would have, then charge per hour what you had planned to charge but if taking on the child means that you are prevented, say, from filling one of your under 5 spaces then yes I would charge more per hour for care.

[youarewhatyoueat]

I'm hoping to join a pilot project for inclusive care in our area and the only way I can charge extra ie. double for 2 places if a child requires that level of care, is if the lead professional for the child does an assessment under CAF and it is deemed to be the most appropriate course of action.

[Mollymop]

well i don't :rolleyes:

the OP asked how much to charge for a 7 year old in a wheelchair who is to say that this child needs any extra care?
she wasn't asking about a child on breathing machines, needing constant meds feeding tubes etc :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

No she wasn't that is why you should keep an open mind about the situation like the rest of us:thumbsup: As this child may need one to one care.

If i was the OP I would be quite upset by the comments which seem, from you as very "NO NO NO I am disgusted you should even think about it" making it sound as if the OP might be trying to earn a little extra at the expense of the the disability of the child... Though I am sure you don't mean it to sound that way Hebs.:) And I know you're child has adhd and i can understand why you see this argument from your point of view, so I am not having a go at you with this post.

Hunni, my son has Adhd and aspergers traits, as I have mentioned to you before - but he needs no extra care than any other child I care for.

I mind a child with Downs - she needs lots of extra help - but I don't charge more and never have.

BUT if I was to mind a child that was 7 who couldn't get around independently and needed my help all the time... that I couldn't look after a small child while she was with me - then yes I would ask extra if not I wouldn't mind her

and this is all coming from a minder who has a son with special needs and who minds (now and again) a child with Downs Syndrome:)

Maybe the OP will be back soon with more info:thumbsup:

[Pauline]

this has sparked a good debate though:) :thumbsup:

It has indeed and, as always, I am proud of the members on here that it is a good debate and doesn't degenerate into insults and abuse of other members because of their differing views :thumbsup:

[Hebs]

It has indeed and, as always, I am proud of the members on here that it is a good debate and doesn't degenerate into insults and abuse of other members because of their differing views :thumbsup:

oh no :panic: how boring would it be if we all had the same views :laughing:

[haribo]

There is disabled and DISABLED. I have cared for children with ADAH and still care for a child with autism, normal rate.

How ever a friend as i have stated before cares for a 7 year old in nappies, who smears feces every where, throws things ( and he is a very strong large boy) eats every thing, mud, rubbish, dead leaves. This makes him vomit. He breaks every thing he can lay his hands on, he gets in a terrible temper as he cannot speak very well.
But she loves him and he is so lucky to have him as her minder.
BUT either she has to reduce her numbers when she has him or pay an assistant. She why should she not have a rate to reflect this.

You are inclusive if you take on a child like this. What you charge is entirely up to you.[/QUagree with this . depends entirely on the needs and extra work involved .

[Marshmallow]

Thank you, everyone for your help.
All your advice has been welcomed, and taken onboard.

Many Thanx :group hug:

[gigglinggoblin]

I wonder how many people who think its ok to charge extra for a disabled child charge extra for babies and do you assess your charges according to when they learn to walk / feed themselves / potty train? I cant see much difference apart from the size of the child. If they need one to one I agree with charging more but babies are more work than 3 year olds and we are all happy to deal with that.

[Hebs]

I wonder how many people who think its ok to charge extra for a disabled child charge extra for babies and do you assess your charges according to when they learn to walk / feed themselves / potty train? I cant see much difference apart from the size of the child. If they need one to one I agree with charging more but babies are more work than 3 year olds and we are all happy to deal with that.

Well said!

[Pipsqueak]

I wonder how many people who think its ok to charge extra for a disabled child charge extra for babies and do you assess your charges according to when they learn to walk / feed themselves / potty train? I cant see much difference apart from the size of the child. If they need one to one I agree with charging more but babies are more work than 3 year olds and we are all happy to deal with that.

nurseries tend to charge more for babies and the prices go down slightly as the child gets older.

In all that said the KEY here is when I said about an enhanced rate is for complex needs where the minder needs to devote time to the child. It is NOT about charging extra BECAUSE the child is disabled its about being realistic about providing 1-2-1 care and not being able to care for any other children. It is not about low levels of disability where the child requires a slightly higher level of care than normal.

I wish I'd never mentioned it and I am thinking about resigning of the inclusive community part of the network now because some of the comments have made me feel like I am exploiting families for accepting a higher rate of pay to compensate me for not being able to take on other children. (I know that none of it has been aimed at me personally but its caused me to think about what I do).


I don't know about those who are making these comments but I for one cannot make a living on £4 per hour - enough to feed and clothe my kids and pay my bills. At the moment i do not have any children requiring a higher level of care but I do extra training in my own time, I attend events on behalf of the network to build up relationships with parents and children so that they are comfortable with the network, I go to specialised drop ins to socialise with these families - unpaid so that I am prepared to have children. this is training in addition to my normal PD.
A recent example was that I was approached to care for a 9month old baby with complex needs. The parents wanted care in their own home (you all may remember the thread) - meaning that I could not fill my spaces as i would not be at home..... so should I have done that on my normal hourly rate instead of accepting a higher rate of pay which compensated me for losing my other spaces??


I don't give a stuff about what the Disability Discrimination Act says about refusing care based on the fact the child is disabled - I'm sorry it still happens and provisions hide it well with other excuses. Therefore there needs to be provisions established - like our community minding network, that are quality assured with experienced and committed minders that parents can get to know well and be comfortable with. Of course there are excellent minders out there willing to go that extra mile with parents but somehow I still don;t believe that they would be willing to work with a family that requires all their care and attention for £3.50/4 per hour and loose that other income. Remember here i am talking complex needs and requirements

[Hebs]

Complex needs are (to me anyway) are different to being in a wheelchair, just as caring for a child in their own home one on one is different to being in your home with other mindees.

[Hebs]

And its not disability discrimination if you say you cant provide the care they need, but it is discrimination to provide care and not treat them the same as others.

Does that make sense?

[PixiePetal]

nurseries tend to charge more for babies and the prices go down slightly as the child gets older.

In all that said the KEY here is when I said about an enhanced rate is for complex needs where the minder needs to devote time to the child. It is NOT about charging extra BECAUSE the child is disabled its about being realistic about providing 1-2-1 care and not being able to care for any other children. It is not about low levels of disability where the child requires a slightly higher level of care than normal.

I wish I'd never mentioned it and I am thinking about resigning of the inclusive community part of the network now because some of the comments have made me feel like I am exploiting families for accepting a higher rate of pay to compensate me for not being able to take on other children. (I know that none of it has been aimed at me personally but its caused me to think about what I do).


I don't know about those who are making these comments but I for one cannot make a living on £4 per hour - enough to feed and clothe my kids and pay my bills. At the moment i do not have any children requiring a higher level of care but I do extra training in my own time, I attend events on behalf of the network to build up relationships with parents and children so that they are comfortable with the network, I go to specialised drop ins to socialise with these families - unpaid so that I am prepared to have children. this is training in addition to my normal PD.
A recent example was that I was approached to care for a 9month old baby with complex needs. The parents wanted care in their own home (you all may remember the thread) - meaning that I could not fill my spaces as i would not be at home..... so should I have done that on my normal hourly rate instead of accepting a higher rate of pay which compensated me for losing my other spaces??


I don't give a stuff about what the Disability Discrimination Act says about refusing care based on the fact the child is disabled - I'm sorry it still happens and provisions hide it well with other excuses. Therefore there needs to be provisions established - like our community minding network, that are quality assured with experienced and committed minders that parents can get to know well and be comfortable with. Of course there are excellent minders out there willing to go that extra mile with parents but somehow I still don;t believe that they would be willing to work with a family that requires all their care and attention for £3.50/4 per hour and loose that other income. Remember here i am talking complex needs and requirements


Don't give it up Pipsqueak - parents, I hope, will be pleased that you take the time to understand the needs of children and are willing to see them all as individuals no matter what their needs.

If I was the parent of a child with complex needs I am sure I would find it a reassurance that someone like you would take them into your care, higher rate or not and give then such close care, being someone I could trust with my most precious child.

Disabled children have special needs and need special carers :)

[kindredspirits]

I wonder how many people making comments about looking after a severely disabled child being the same to looking after a baby have ever looked after a severely disabled child. I'm not talking about ADHD which may be classed as a disability but doesnot affect the amount of work you have to put in. Frankly caring for an older child with a severe disability is nothing like caring for a baby - for one a baby can be easily moved around and for the most part is content to play where they are placed - you would not say the same for a, for example, frustrated 8 year old boy who may be unintentionally violent with their limbs and therefore need a larger area or more supervision for their own safety as well as others.

I'd rather charge more and do a good job than take on a child that needed extra attention and then take on other children as well so that no ones needs were being fully met. I'd hate to think i'd turn away a disabled child purely because I would not be able to afford to care for them at the level they needed.

[The Juggler]

And its not disability discrimination if you say you cant provide the care they need, but it is discrimination to provide care and not treat them the same as others.

Does that make sense?


but you are treating them the same as others if you also would charge extra for an able bodied/minded child, where they require care/hours preventing you from working/taking on other children i.e. where you turn down business when parents require rolling days so you put them on higher rate or charge retainer fee for the lack of other work you can take on. I totally agree Hebs that if the child takes up one space and doesn't require care which prevents you filling other spaces it would be wrong to charge more.


Pip please don't resign your post on the network. If social services believe that specialist training or complex placements means a higher rate is due then why should we not follow their lead. As long as we are not doing this for children with disabilities who DO NOT require any more care than an able bodied child (and therefore treating them unequally) I believe it is justified to charge more where only YOUR specialist training can cater for that child or where you are turning away other business to care for that child.

[Blaze]

I wonder how many people who think its ok to charge extra for a disabled child charge extra for babies and do you assess your charges according to when they learn to walk / feed themselves / potty train? I cant see much difference apart from the size of the child. If they need one to one I agree with charging more but babies are more work than 3 year olds and we are all happy to deal with that.

I disagree - I find 3 year olds much harder than babies! LOL

...Our local nursary has seperate charges for different ages & I do too since i have become accredited (but for different reasons that aren't relevant to this topic).:)

[Pipsqueak]

Pip please don't resign your post on the network. .

ach - never mind me I think I was just getting a bit cross with this thread and I am in a bit of a sensitive mood today (what with Harry going off on camp and have raging tooth ache). just being a mardy old moobag!!!
It has however made me think about my role on the network and still deep down I believe its the right thing to be doing, having met with the parents who actually know the circumstances and want this type of care for what ever reason they do - whether its returning to work, respite etc.
Though some of the comments have made me like I am exploiting the families - regardless of the lead social services have set which has come from through research with these families and Aiming High.

[Mouse]

And its not disability discrimination if you say you cant provide the care they need, but it is discrimination to provide care and not treat them the same as others.

Does that make sense?

Equality isn't about treating children all the same. It's about giving them all equal access to activities & opportunities. Very often this does mean treating disabled children differently to enable them to join in (eg. providing extra support, additional equipment etc).

We are being inclusive if we offer care to children who have additional needs, but to do this we sometimes have to limit the number of children we care for. As small businesses we cannot afford to have one child taking the place of 2 or more and not charge accordingly. As someone else pointed out, you'd have no qualms about charging parents a full-time rate if they worked varying shifts, but only bought the children to you for 3 days. Isn't that discriminating against parents who work shifts? You're making them pay for spaces they're not using.

No one at all is suggesting you should charge a premium rate simply because a child is disabled. But I see nothing wrong with charging a higher rate if the care you need to provide means that you can't take on another child.

And finally, should we not be giving parents of disabled children the choice to use childcare if they want to? Are we better saying we can offer the level of care needed, but at an enhanced rate, or saying sorry, we can't look after your child as we will need to have other children here at the same time and can't do both?
The argument someone made before that parents of severely disabled children would probably want to be at home looking after them themselves, is quite shortsighted, as is the argument that looking after a disabled child is no different to looking after a baby!

[Hebs]

I disagree - I find 3 year olds much harder than babies! LOL


and i find 6-8 years hard than 3 year olds :laughing:

[barbarella68]

Snap! They are harder for some reason. My husband reckon it's because at that age they are ****** minded.:)

[teacake2]

I don't charge any extra for the disabled child I look after, although I was lucky in that the other children I cared for at the same time were older than him when he was a baby and so they didn't need 100% attention from me all the time.
When he reached the age of 2.5 his educator tried to get the government funding for him earlier than the 3 yr (I am accredited) and this would have been at a lot higher rate than normal, but as he lives in a different county to me they wouldn't grant it. As soon as he was able to claim it at 3 in my county he got the NEG funding of course but at the same rate as the others were entitled to.
Strange that one council thought he should be entitled to more and the other didn't (perhaps not).
He is 5 now and at school and has to use a wheelchair at school to be able to keep up with the other children when moving round the school and at playtime and I know that the teaching assistants that look after him get an enhanced rate of pay for doing this, so that raises the question again of different rates being paid in some areas for disabled children's care. But I am not starting anything honestly:D :D
Teacake2

[blue bear]

I have two disabled children of my own, I have only ever been asked to pay extra where the disability incurred extra costs, eg child needed one to one care on ski-ing trip, I was happy to pay as this was necessary and only safe way for child to take part.

I would not be happy to pay extra just beacause child is disabled, lots of children have problems that make the job harder, meaning we have to take extra precautions/give more time (divorces, death etc) we would not charge extra for this.

[gigglinggoblin]

Nurseries charge more for babies because you need a higher ratio of staff to babies, not just because babies need more care. Which is why I think its ok to charge more for a child who needs one to one care, its all down to ratios.

[LisaMcNally09]

Equality isn't about treating children all the same. It's about giving them all equal access to activities & opportunities. Very often this does mean treating disabled children differently to enable them to join in (eg. providing extra support, additional equipment etc).

We are being inclusive if we offer care to children who have additional needs, but to do this we sometimes have to limit the number of children we care for. As small businesses we cannot afford to have one child taking the place of 2 or more and not charge accordingly. As someone else pointed out, you'd have no qualms about charging parents a full-time rate if they worked varying shifts, but only bought the children to you for 3 days. Isn't that discriminating against parents who work shifts? You're making them pay for spaces they're not using.

No one at all is suggesting you should charge a premium rate simply because a child is disabled. But I see nothing wrong with charging a higher rate if the care you need to provide means that you can't take on another child.

And finally, should we not be giving parents of disabled children the choice to use childcare if they want to? Are we better saying we can offer the level of care needed, but at an enhanced rate, or saying sorry, we can't look after your child as we will need to have other children here at the same time and can't do both?
The argument someone made before that parents of severely disabled children would probably want to be at home looking after them themselves, is quite shortsighted, as is the argument that looking after a disabled child is no different to looking after a baby!

I agree!!!!

[~Chelle~]

as the mother of a disabled child i know if my son required that level of care i'd be at home with him, the fact that he has ADHD (which in comparisson to some disabilities isnt that bad) was enough for me to want to be at home to provide the care he needs.

if i did go out to work i wouldnt expect to be charged a higher rate for childcare :panic:

I looked after a boy with ADHD and had to give him medication when he came home from school and charged as I do with every other child.

If anything, his sister was more of a handful than him!:laughing: