Recording near misses

[sarah707]

I was on some risk assessment training last night and the guy said we should be recording when children have a 'near miss' as well as an accident.

He said that it would help us when we are looking at our risk assessments and updating them to see when and how children might have been hurt.

So if Johnny rushes towards the swings and we catch him, so he's not hurt but nearly hurt, we should write it down.

Or if Jane picks up the sand and looks like she might throw it but doesn't, again we should record what might have happened.

Well I can see how this might be useful in a group, where one practitioner sees something, another something else etc and then someone is responsible for putting it all together.

But I really can't see what use it is for childminders.

Does anyone have any opinions? Has anyone been tackled about it at their inspection? Is it mentioned on anyone's Ofsted report?

:D

[wendywu]

But in your RA for the park you would have noted the swings and lowered the risk by saying you would watch out for children when they are near them and pull them away before they get knocked.

So therefore it was not a near miss but an accident prevented by doing a RA in the first place.:D

[cher25]

Sound's like your risk assessment course was worthwhile. I did one a couple of month's ago, but it was so geared towards nurseries and school's. Total waste of 3 hours of my time. :(

[grindal]

When I had my ofsted the inspector sat in her car while I did a playgroup run and looked at my folders. When I got back she asked to see my risk assessments. I told her they were in the main folder, under the Red Risk Assessment Divider. She told me she had seen the divider but the RAs were not there. I opened the folder, at the Red divider, and guess what.....the RAs were there :angry: :angry:

Probably is of some use for nurseries, or even where 1 or more minders are working together, or maybe even at toddler groups where action is from other children.

However, personally I dont think it is something i am going to start doing :blush:

[mama2three]

Surely when we have a 'near miss' moment we will have already ra'd - occasionally something will happen that we hadnt though of , and we can just make a note / add on to our next ra review?
L 'nearly' fell in the nettles on the school run this morning. I chose this route as it was safer , but the nettles had died back by then and are just growing again!. So i will add nettles onto that RA.
Its just making RAs working documents rather than something done once and ignored in a file somewhere until inspection time!

[Winnie]

We should learn from near misses- learn that Jonny needs closer supervision near swings and roads- but we have enough to do without needing to be recording everything in writing. RA should be reviewed at least yearly and at any time it is neccesary (when a child rushes the swings:rolleyes: ) so maybe that is the time to do a review?? and just use a bit on common sense.

[FussyElmo]

I get the one about the swings and see what he's gettibg at there. Need to record Johnny nearly ran into swings (but its probably on the RA anyhow) but would warn another member of staff to keep an eye out.

However Im not going to second guess what a child is thinking - when he say she looked like she was going to throw sand but didn't - how do we know she was going to throw it or was thinking about the texture.

[wendywu]

I suppose it depends on HOW near the swings Jonny got.

If it was that near then the person did not do a proper RA in the first place. If it was in the vicinity of the swings and he was stopped then it was not a near miss.

It seems like another lets justify our jobs moment for them.:panic:

[WibbleWobble]

I was a "risk assessor" as part of my job in the NHS...for my sins:(

We did near misses...but these were when,for example, a patient gets through all the pre op checks and gets to the anaesthetic room and the wrong leg is found to be marked for amputation (gasp ye not...this happens more than you would know:eek: )


I agree with you Sarah...this is for a system that has multiple staff keeping an eye on things. If we had to do this we would be constantly writing stuff down and we would miss little jonny jumping off the garage roof...


but at least it would be documented!:laughing:


i bet Osted will bring this in though......i give them 6 months to start.
They think we have nothing better to do than fill in flamin forms all day.:angry:


sorry for rant...jumping the last hurdle with the SEF...nearly there...finishing post in sight:thumbsup:


mandy xxxxxx

[Pipsqueak]

do you really want to hear my opinion on this one???:rolleyes:

[sweets]

do you really want to hear my opinion on this one???:rolleyes:

you certainly won't want to hear mine! :laughing: :laughing:

[singlewiththree]

If I did that with every attempt at sand I would have killed a tree everyday :panic:

[ajs]

seeing as i always play devil's advocate with sarah no one will want to know mine either.

although i do agree with Kath and Wendy, if you've done the RA properly in the first place then it's already been prevented
and we can't possibly write up every time a child throws something can we, unless it hits someone of course

[christine e]

Now when I saw the title of this thread I thought of course we should but tbh I was thinking along the lines of a child running out into the road and a car nearly hitting them! A child nearly throwing sand er I don't think so!

Cx

[sarah707]

Now when I saw the title of this thread I thought of course we should but tbh I was thinking along the lines of a child running out into the road and a car nearly hitting them! A child nearly throwing sand er I don't think so!

Cx

He mentioned that scenario as well! :laughing: But we agreed that would be recorded as an incident anyway.

Then we would feed it into our RA and talk about how we intend to spend time working with the child to improve road skills.

it's the near misses I'm not sure about, I think I would be writing all day :rolleyes:

J nearly hit K (his brother) with a ball

J nearly hit K with a bat

K nearly hit J back with a different bat.. and on it would go.

So what would be the point except to show that J and K are brothers who fight a lot? :laughing: :D

[sarah707]

do you really want to hear my opinion on this one???:rolleyes:

I always want to hear your opinion Pips :cool: :D

[miss mopple]

Flippin' 'eck the worlds gone mad! Presumably while we are writing up a constant stream of near misses we would need to risk assess the fact that we aren't able to supervise the children because we are too busy filling in stupid forms :angry:

needless to say I am not of the mind its necessary :laughing:

[Monkey26]

I did my risk assessment training last summer and was told about recording near misses back then... I have to say, i still don't do it! Like other posters have said, we should have already covered these in our risk assessments, and then added any others as and when necessary eg a fallen fence or nettles growing back.

As the owner/manager of an after-school club as well, yes we do it there because it helps all staff (esp those who dont work everyday) and we put them on the staff notice board for a week before filing with all other accident/incident forms.

HTH :-) x

[Pipsqueak]

I always want to hear your opinion Pips :cool: :D

lol and thank you Sarah :D - I agree that there should be some recording of 'serious' near misses - ie a child running out to the road for instance because something needs revising on your RA more than likely. Its a wake up call.

Recording minor every day near miss spats - its downright ridiculous. as you say we would be writing all day long. OK if the same 'near miss' keeps recurring then yes again, something needs to be looked at again. However you cannot constantly be waiting for something to happen just in case. Life would be over as we know it, we would all be prematurely gray or even inducing an ulcer or worrying ourselves to death.

RA is not about eliminating risk is it, its about minimising and teaching children to manage it for themselves, but we are more and more in danger of becoming a risk adverse paranoid society and what effect is that going to have on the children. Too many parents and children nowadays are already frightened of their own shadows and the air that they breathe. (but then again perhaps because I have 3 boys of my own who are constantly getting into scrapes, sustaining falls, bumps, bruises, blood letting reguarly etc and I myself had quite a 'full of risk' upbringing, eg/ ride my bike too fast down the hill and round the corner - fall off - see i told you it hurts says my mother as she dusts me off, wipes the blood and shoves me back out the door!!:laughing: )

I think, perhaps reviewing the recurring or serious 'near miss' would be sensible and it would also show reflection on practice if we done it occasionally for other minor incidents - would be a good idea. I am in agreement that if your RA's are done properly in the first place then this should not be necessary. We are minders, mainly lone workers and we think (fast) on our feet anyway.

[Carol M]

I was a "risk assessor" as part of my job in the NHS...for my sins:(

We did near misses...but these were when,for example, a patient gets through all the pre op checks and gets to the anaesthetic room and the wrong leg is found to be marked for amputation (gasp ye not...this happens more than you would know:eek: )


I agree with you Sarah...this is for a system that has multiple staff keeping an eye on things. If we had to do this we would be constantly writing stuff down and we would miss little jonny jumping off the garage roof...


but at least it would be documented!:laughing:


i bet Osted will bring this in though......i give them 6 months to start.
They think we have nothing better to do than fill in flamin forms all day.:angry:


sorry for rant...jumping the last hurdle with the SEF...nearly there...finishing post in sight:thumbsup:


mandy xxxxxx

Well! 3yrs ago NHS marked up MY wrong leg! Even got as far as anaesthetic in wrong leg. Had got wrong leg listed on operating list just didn't see huge black arrow on other leg!!!!!
Luckily it was seen just before they were going to give me a new hip on WRONG side!! I believe in "near misses"
Carol:panic:

[WibbleWobble]

flippin heck carol....to get to that stage they wouldve had to go through at least 4 sets of checks!!!:eek:

glad you are ok

mandy xxxxxxx

[Carol M]

Yeah, it was a nightmare. Everyone blaming others from secretary who wrote pre-op notes up to consultant, all I know is that I was unable to move either side for longer than should have and after swelling of calf and d-dimer test they sent me home only to be in agony and 3 weeks later after calling dr. was diagnosed with DVT. TOTAL C..K UP!
Still very angry.
Presume from grovelling apology letter from top doc they have done new Risk Assessment and it won't happen again !
Carol:mad:

[MAWI]

MADNESS. Im all for keeping the children as safe as possible. This however is probably gone a bit too far as I struggle to find the time as it is to keep up with paperwork. I logged on today ( My day off and Im doing paperwork) as I need to update my Risk Assesments.
If I had to complete all the near misses, I may be doing paperwork all day long on some days. I really do feel that we are being bogged down with even more paperwork. Do they forget that we are actually looking after the children and that may involve, spending our days caring, going out on visits/outings and playing with the children.??
We all have RA in place so surely as other people have said the risks should be covered in there.

[Heaven Scent]

Life is full of near misses & what ifs and we cant abolish them but we learn from them it doesn't mean we have to record them - the fact that they are near misses and not actual accidents either minor, serious or fatal is because we are competent adults who have learned through growing up all children love running and throwing and as adults we are aware of that and watch for that all the time and we decide for the children when its safe for them to run and throw then we teach them. That is what risk assessing is all about most near misses are so minor its not worth thinking about e.g. seeing a child about to throw some sand.

I was on the very same risk assessment training the other week and they did also say it was OK for us to teach the children not to do things and/or touch things and record that as our control.

I agree with how this can be useful in a large setting with lots of young in experienced girls often doing NVQ L2 left to their own devices - they shouldn't be left alone but they are and often when they aren't they are with other young inexperienced girls straight out of college who have just scraped a level 3 qualification :panic: :panic: Yes, these girls should take note of what could have happened and how best to avert it but surely age and experience should be recognised and respected.

If they ask for this can someone please stop the world and let me hop off - that will be the straw to break the camels back.

[Tups]

My last inspection, lo ran to the door and fell just missing his head on the skirting board, inspector said that is a incident, lucky for me I had an incident book, but don't agree with it because he didn't get hurt. how much paper work are we supposed to do its never ending :rolleyes:

[grindal]

Ofsted inspectors have their own vocabulary though! The 1cm scratch on my mindees chest was an injury according to my ofsted inspector:eek: