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View Full Version : Gradings mean nothing? Contraversial?



bekki0405
27-03-2010, 08:52 AM
I wanted to post a musing I have been having recently, to see how others feel about it.
I was graded recently by Ofsted, and got a satisfactory, which I was annoyed about (a whole other story, check out my past postings).
Anyway, so I have been quietly watching various childminders in my area, and chatting to them to see what they do differently to me. Hoping to pick up tips and advice.
I have spoken to some wonderful good and outstanding childminders, and gained a great insight into how their sytems differ from mine. However, I have personally witnessed 3 outstanding childminders from our local childminding network cluster, who have some really unsusual (shall we say) practices.
One told me a story about a young boy who she minded from a baby, who is now at school, and drops his little sister off on his way to school. He is a very quiet child,and because on a number of occassions he wouldn't say hello when she answered the door, she told him, that if he didn't speak to her the next day when she opened the door to him, she would close the door, and he wouldn't come in. She actually followed through with this threat, and closed the door when he didn't say hello. He knocked again, and she opened the door, and he then said hello. Dad just meekly told his son to answer her.
This childminder is a double outstanding, so maybe this behaviour is acceptable? Another childminders mindees, are constantly crying, fighting and generally looking miserable. She never cuddles the children, or seems to have a connection with them. The last childminder is excellent in her care of the children, in terms of activities. However, she also doesn't seem to have a connection with the children, and never holds the children when they are upset. Now of course I only see childminders at drop ins, toddler groups etc, so I don't see what goes on at home.
So, here is my theory, some childminders, and by all means, not a majority, are fantastic at putting on a show for their inspection. They say all the right things, and act in the correct way, and have an answer for any questions the inspector puts to them.
Against another childminder who agrees with an inspector when she makes a suggestion, instead of fighting her corner and explaing how her idea is working with the children, who then gets a satisfactory because she did not challenge the inspectors findings (that's me by the way), but has a brilliant connection with the children, and treats them as if they were her own. I know who'd I'd choose, but what about prospective parents.
Anyone else agree with me?

youarewhatyoueat
27-03-2010, 08:59 AM
To be honest I don't worry about what other childminders do just what I do, you can't judge people by what you see in a small amount of time and I don't really bother about it.
We all do and say things that are sometimes taken out of context so I usually take things spoken by others with a pinch of salt. If I see something which perhaps I would do differently I just accept we all do things slightly differently the same way we bring up our own children differently.

To be fair though I don't live in a town with other childminders but in a rural area without many other minders so I probably don't come across as many other cmders as others.

angeldelight
27-03-2010, 09:03 AM
To a certain degree I do understand what you are saying

Its annoying I know

In any walk of life though you are going to get this

Sorry that you are not happy with your grading - I would leave them all to it and concentrate on yourself you sound like you are doing a great job so thats important too

Angel xx

miffy
27-03-2010, 09:04 AM
You are basing your views about these other childminders on a small snapshot of time you've observed them which is much the same as inspectors have to do..............

What really matters is what your parents think of your service and that you know you are doing as good a job as you can possibly do.

Miffy xx

selena 31
27-03-2010, 09:06 AM
I know who i would chose to look after mine but think it does sometimes depend on ofsted inspector that comes as to what they looking for, but unfortunatly these days it does seem to be a lot about the paper work!

Hebs
27-03-2010, 09:06 AM
i agree

there are 3 local minders who have/had outstanding

one still has her's and she deserves it
one lost hers at her recent inspection, down to satisfactory (all due to paperwork!)
one was deregistered by ofsted :eek:

my parents are happy with my service, the kids love it here and complain when it's time to go home, THAT tells me i'm doing a good job :thumbsup:

Pipsqueak
27-03-2010, 09:15 AM
I understand what you are trying to say. I wouldn't say gradings mean nothing though because there are more childminders who strive to provide the best possible care for the their children and word extremely hard to gain the grading that they have obtained.

I think perhaps the wording/description ie 'satisfactory', 'good' is what is unacceptable. It does not reflect what we do adequately. They are quite non-descriptive, bland words that don't convey the effort that is put in, when in both circumstances you are doing blooming great.

In saying all that, being a support minder, I come across a few minders who have gotten inadequates 1 and 2 (deservedly so I have to add - some very glaring holes in their care) and when you put 'inadequate' next to 'satisfactory' - there is actually a huge jump in the meanings if you see what I mean.

Yes I agree with you that there are some minders out there who can talk the talk well enough come inspection time and that grates on me - especally when there is nothing to distinguish them and me on paper. However, I KNOW what i do is real, honest and true and it comes from the heart 100%. None of its talk, none of its show and what it really boils down to - the children are happy in my care and the parents are happy with the care.
Like you I had a (in my view) a disappointing inspection but do you know what - I am happy with the care I provide and so are the parents. To them I am 'special' :blush: and they appreciate me.

mama2three
27-03-2010, 09:17 AM
to some degree i agree with you - there are brilliant 'satisfactory' minders in terms of how caring they are. there are poor outstanding minders who can ' switch it on' and have got to grips with the paperwork. Of the minders in my area one of the first i would consider if i needed care for my own ds is graded satisfactory. she knows she let herself down regarding her paperwork - but she is a warm affectionate and wonderful minder. Another i know is due a grading , and my guess is she would get outstanding , but i wouldnt let her walk my dog.

But to say gradings mean nothing? no , sorry , I worked my bottom off to get my outstanding and try to live up to it everyday.

Childminding group is not a reflection of my care either. It is 2 hours in the week where i can go to a safe environment where everyone has been checked , i know that there are 8 pairs of expert eyes and hands looking out for all the children and for once i can switch off for a couple of minutes and have a cuppa / moan / ask advice etc...recharge ready for the rest of the week. I may not be on the floor playing with my mindees or walking round with them on my hip for the whole session - but then later on i may have someone elses child on my knee for a song / story while they have a 'time out moment'.
Ofsted are far from consistent , and the system isnt great , but at least there is a report system where parents can get another view , in addition to gut feeling , and to recommendations about the care their child is likely to get with a particular minder.

so sorry , ive gone on a bit! I do know that my grading is a snapshot and an opinion. but i also know it doesnt mean ' nothing'.

nokidshere
27-03-2010, 09:24 AM
I have no idea what grades the other minders have in my area. I chat to one or two at school but thats all really. Why does it matter?

Just concentrate on your own work and don't worry about the others.

I do have strong views on the inconsistancies of inspections but thats hardly the minders fault.

manjay
27-03-2010, 09:32 AM
Interesting thread this one. Obviously don't have experience of OFSTED inspections but I do often wonder whether I would prefer your method or ours and which one is conducive to getting a true picture of what goes on in each setting. We have unannounced inspections (within a 3 month time frame) and we don't get given gradings. So my report shows "no actions or recommendations" which doesn't sound quite the same as "outstanding":D . On the other hand I would hate to be labelled with a subjective grade (that I thought was unfair) by an inspector who got out of bed on the wrong side!!!!

Mouse
27-03-2010, 10:33 AM
I have to say I am very proud of my Outstanding grade. I did it all by myself (EYFS was quite new, I'd had no real training, I hadn't discovered the forum then!) and I worked very hard to make sure I was doing the best I could for the children in my care. I wasn't aiming for Outstanding, I didn't put on any act for the inspector and I was absolutely gobsmacked when she told me my grade.
Since then I have continued to work hard to keep my standards up.

I do get a bit peeved by people knocking the outstanding grade. Yes, there will always be people who can swing it, but I bet the majority of people do deserve it.

Many people feel their grade is unfair compared to other people, but don't knock those of us who truely deserve it. If you think "gradings mean nothing", why stress about it? I don't compare myself to other people, I concentrate on my own business & what I do.

I do think that cms who don't get the grade they want seem very quick to criticize & put down others. Perhaps they should spend more time looking at their own practice & seeing where they could improve rather than picking fault with others.

Curly Quavers
27-03-2010, 10:38 AM
To be honest I don't worry about what other childminders do just what I do, you can't judge people by what you see in a small amount of time and I don't really bother about it.
.

I try to be like this concentrate on what I am doing and making sure I am the best I can be. I do get ideas and pointers from more experienced minders when I need it though.

Blackhorse
27-03-2010, 10:43 AM
the same was said in my previous office about how people got graded...and that was working there with your boss seeing you every day of the year...you had to fill in forms and work hard to get good grades and everytime when people didnt get graded the way they wanted the whole system suddenly was unfair and everyone with good grades was made to feel bad.

I agree that there will always be cases where people are being judged unfairly and where you might have a boss or inspector who just isnt doing their job properly but then you can appeal against that and show your evidence.
as for having paperwork...it is a requirement to have it so to have it all done nicely and in good order is in my head going to help you get a better grade as it is part of what you need to do in your job (with you I mean all of us)

I dont know whether or not you should have had the grading you had or whether the cm's you refer to should or shouldnt have had them but overall
from what I heard for scotland for example is that cm's are overall getting better grades than nurseries and other child care settings and it should give childminding a big boost once these things are being published.

I havenet had my inspection yet but I am working hard to make sure the children are having a great time and learning and feeling safe and are being made welcome and feel this is also their home. I document lots and take pictures to show the CC what we do all year round even when they are not here...and I focus on having all the paperwork in place they will want to see...and in fact lately I have done more paperwork because I want to have everything in place and I have found that it is helping me run my business better and it helps me care for the kids better..

the only thing I am not sure at this point is how important the grades are to the parents...they obviously see you every day with their kids and they know best whether they are happy with you or not...and to me I think it is more imporatant that they are happy and the kids than my inspector but I also want to work towards getting good grades over the next years...not expecting them in my first year though but I like working towards it...

sorry waffling on....just had a car crash and I am a bit all over the place...

Carol M
27-03-2010, 10:44 AM
I can understand how you feel as I know your grading is based on a snapshot and if you are lucky , a few hrs of the inspectors time allowing you to show your evidence, once every three years.
I am sure the inspectors have preferences as to how they reach the conclusion of inspections even with their current guidelines for inspection that they must use.
I am extreemly proud that I have been given an outstanding grade for my last two inspections. I am confident I provide excellent care and education on a daily basis and would welcome Ofsted visiting unannounced weekly!
I strive to exceed in my delivery of EYFS and am constantly looking to improve.
The Forum has been fantastic for me, gaining information, ideas and support from other like-minded people but I am already stressing about my next inspection which isn't for two years yet!
I feel I have such alot to live up to and would be gutted if I lost my outstanding grade on a visit that perhaps didn't go so well for one reason or another.
I think the inspectors have a very important job to do and they are only human BUT.....................who knows the answer?
Carol:panic:

The Juggler
27-03-2010, 11:11 AM
I understand what you are trying to say. I wouldn't say gradings mean nothing though because there are more childminders who strive to provide the best possible care for the their children and word extremely hard to gain the grading that they have obtained.

I think perhaps the wording/description ie 'satisfactory', 'good' is what is unacceptable. It does not reflect what we do adequately. They are quite non-descriptive, bland words that don't convey the effort that is put in, when in both circumstances you are doing blooming great.

In saying all that, being a support minder, I come across a few minders who have gotten inadequates 1 and 2 (deservedly so I have to add - some very glaring holes in their care) and when you put 'inadequate' next to 'satisfactory' - there is actually a huge jump in the meanings if you see what I mean.

Yes I agree with you that there are some minders out there who can talk the talk well enough come inspection time and that grates on me - especally when there is nothing to distinguish them and me on paper. However, I KNOW what i do is real, honest and true and it comes from the heart 100%. None of its talk, none of its show and what it really boils down to - the children are happy in my care and the parents are happy with the care.
Like you I had a (in my view) a disappointing inspection but do you know what - I am happy with the care I provide and so are the parents. To them I am 'special' :blush: and they appreciate me.

I agree - there are outstanding childminders who ARE outstanding - several we know of on here :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: - and there are those who blatantly tell others that a lot of the stuff/paperwork they have which got them their outstanding is only for ofsted and they don't do any of it. Even tell the parents that:eek: They also - I know never 'get down to play' with the kids but they get outstanding. Life is unfair. However, I know I do a good job - the kids are happy, parents are happy. If I have to have 45 different risk assessments and endless other paperwork which is way above the statutory requirements then you can keep your outstanding. I do the minimum RA's needed (I know I keep the kids safe) and I concentrate on planning and learning journals instead. Parents (I think) can generally tell the difference between those who do and those who don't practice what they preach hon.

TheBTeam
27-03-2010, 11:24 AM
I understand what you are trying to say. I wouldn't say gradings mean nothing though because there are more childminders who strive to provide the best possible care for the their children and word extremely hard to gain the grading that they have obtained.

I think perhaps the wording/description ie 'satisfactory', 'good' is what is unacceptable. It does not reflect what we do adequately. They are quite non-descriptive, bland words that don't convey the effort that is put in, when in both circumstances you are doing blooming great.

In saying all that, being a support minder, I come across a few minders who have gotten inadequates 1 and 2 (deservedly so I have to add - some very glaring holes in their care) and when you put 'inadequate' next to 'satisfactory' - there is actually a huge jump in the meanings if you see what I mean.

Yes I agree with you that there are some minders out there who can talk the talk well enough come inspection time and that grates on me - especally when there is nothing to distinguish them and me on paper. However, I KNOW what i do is real, honest and true and it comes from the heart 100%. None of its talk, none of its show and what it really boils down to - the children are happy in my care and the parents are happy with the care.
Like you I had a (in my view) a disappointing inspection but do you know what - I am happy with the care I provide and so are the parents. To them I am 'special' :blush: and they appreciate me.

I agree, I know a childminder who got an outstanding because she was a recluse in the month or so before her inspection, mocked up learning journeys by begging photos of her children from others, and didnt go out, transforming everything to meet what they wanted to see and became sweetness and light on the day.

I got a good, but I know that my inspector phoned me at 3pm in the afternoon, came the next morning and i did nothing differently to everything i normally do, my paperwork is as it was!

I would rather be me and be the same, my parents think i am outstanding, and not go to the lengths above to get an outstanding (i did have a known slightly iffy inspector), but the lady above worked the system, i am not prepared to do that.

I know someone also who got outstanding and she says we are similar, but at least she got her outstanding with what she always was and didnt play the system.

I think a true reflection of me is good, i know that i can maintain what i do, sometimes my heart slips slightly in enthusiasm so i think that this stops me being outstanding, and i do not want to do anymore paperwork! I am due again in July!

carol cameron
27-03-2010, 11:29 AM
I understand that it can be frustrating when your grade does not appear to reflect your practice. I have always been awarded the top grade at every inspection I have had since I started childminding and when I wasn't I refused to accept the grading and appealed against it! Interestingly enough when I was re-inspected I got the top grade again- I believe it was 'good 'at the time. My point is that every inspector sees things differently and if you feel strongly enough you can appeal your grade but be prepared to stand your ground. It worked for me. However , another childminder friend of mine says she couldn't care a jot about an inspectors grade as long as her children and parents think she's outstanding- she has actually had outstanding twice and deservedly so.

balloon
27-03-2010, 11:33 AM
Hmm, honestly?

I worked my backside off to get my outstanding grade and am really appalled that anybody could think that the only reason I got it was because I 'went along' with my inspector or was some sort of superwoman for the day.

Every single day I have to live up to it because I just know that somewhere there'll be a minder who got a grade they were unhappy with just waiting to tell the world about how I shouldn't have gotten my outstanding.

I'm sure there are people out there who perform just for the day, but I think that if I was unhappy with my grade I'd be looking at where I was lacking instead of picking fault with others, no matter what grades they had...

For what it's worth I think inspections should be 'without warning' and then we'd really see what was what. :laughing: :littleangel: :p

Hebs
27-03-2010, 11:41 AM
i'm not jealous, i'm happy with my good grading wouldnt want an outstanding it's not the getting it that bothersd me it's the stress of keeping it :laughing:

the kids being happy here is most important :thumbsup:

TheBTeam
27-03-2010, 11:46 AM
For what it's worth I think inspections should be 'without warning' and then we'd really see what was what. :laughing: :littleangel: :p

Same here, i know that they would find exactly the same thing with me, i also know some people that would be caught out big time, and others who do not do as well as they should when given warning because they get in a stew!

Mine is definitely not sour grapes, i think however you get outstanding, deserved or undeserved the pressure to want/need to keep it must be nerve racking.

I would be upset if i got satisfactory, but not sure my parents would even know, they were not remotely interested when i tried telling them or giving them a copy of the report :rolleyes:

Ripeberry
27-03-2010, 11:47 AM
Well it's up to you. As everyone has said it's the parents and the children that matter in the end. Even though I've got an outstanding, my parents knew that I was 'outstanding' straight away and one is not bothered about reading the report in full.
I'm just interested in doing my best for the children in my care and setting up good relations with their parents. Also as a new CM I wanted to make sure that I was doing everything right as I'm a perfectionist deep down.
Just concentrate on doing what you do best and next time then you'll get the grade you wanted.
Have they not offered a re-inspection?

bekki0405
27-03-2010, 04:54 PM
Hmm, honestly?

I worked my backside off to get my outstanding grade and am really appalled that anybody could think that the only reason I got it was because I 'went along' with my inspector or was some sort of superwoman for the day.

Every single day I have to live up to it because I just know that somewhere there'll be a minder who got a grade they were unhappy with just waiting to tell the world about how I shouldn't have gotten my outstanding.

I'm sure there are people out there who perform just for the day, but I think that if I was unhappy with my grade I'd be looking at where I was lacking instead of picking fault with others, no matter what grades they had...

For what it's worth I think inspections should be 'without warning' and then we'd really see what was what. :laughing: :littleangel: :p

Oh my gosh, I've opened a can of worms here haven't I?? I honestly didn't mean to imply that all outstanding childminders were like the ones who I used as examples. Quite the reverse, I know some outstanding 'outstanding' childminders, who, like the ones on this forum (who I have offended, sorry!), cross the t's and dot the i's, and are doing an amazing job.
The point I was trying to make was that there are SOME CM's out there, who probably wouldn't deserve the grading, if we had unannounced visits. Also, there are (and I'll steal a phrase from here) outstanding 'satisfactory' CM's, who just struggle with the whole paperwork side of things, which Ofsted hold so dear to their hearts.

I have got over my grading now, I know I'm doing a good job, and so do my parents. I just wondered if anyone else had experience of similar CM's

I apologise to anyone on here who I have unintentionally offended. I am sending you all a virtual bottle of wine!

balloon
27-03-2010, 05:04 PM
I apologise to anyone on here who I have unintentionally offended. I am sending you all a virtual bottle of wine!

Hic! thanks! Good thing it isn't a work day, lol!

Sorry it's a bit of a sore subject through personal experience... I didn't mean to jump down your throat :blush:

bekki0405
27-03-2010, 05:29 PM
OK, I've re-read this whole post from top to bottom, and suprisingly I have seen the light.
:blush: My post title was harsh, and didn't reflect my actual views. Of course grades are not meaningless, and we all work hard, and are judged on what the inspector sees when she visits.
I have requested a re-inspection, and am probably still raw from a **** inspection, so excuse me if this clouds my judgement. I do not mind being graded as satisfactory, I know I am still developing certain parts of my business which would not allow me to be graded as outstanding.

Overall though, the vast majority of CM's are the cream of the crop. I do take note of how these and 'Good' CM's work, because I have only been doing this for 2.5 years, and some of these guys have been in the game for much longer. I have gained a wealth of knowledge from these people, and have imparted some of my own thoughts and practices to them, some of which I have picked up from here.

However, those of you who have pointed out that this sort of thing happens in all walks of like, and jobs, hit the nail on the head. Yes, of course there are always going to be people who can play the game! I hadn't thought of this.:o
I was a manager at a company a few years back where this chap got fastracked to senior management,off the back of other people ideas. He was great at talking about his ideas, and acheivements, and the managers loved it. He wasn't actually any good at his job, but they never got to find out, as he was great at covering his tracks. I guess this is the same analogy. He was just one fish in a very big pond.

Thank you everyone for opening my eyes and putting up with my rant. I have resolved to stop worrying about other CM's and their standards.I'm the only one who matters
Ooooh, and I hope the lady who had the car accident is OK.;)

nannymcflea
27-03-2010, 07:06 PM
I know exactly where you are coming from.

Though like Mouse I worked darn hard and didn't find this site until after I had got it. (though wish I had as it would have saved a lot of searching,mostly due to sarah's expertise :) )

I also know of cm's who are Outstanding but most certainly not and those who are Good but are most certainly outstanding.

I feel the grading system is unfair as they are not consistant and inspectors will admit that although they have their standards to uphold they also have their own personal preferences when inspecting.:(

Pipsqueak
27-03-2010, 10:12 PM
OK, I've re-read this whole post from top to bottom, and suprisingly I have seen the light.
:blush: My post title was harsh, and didn't reflect my actual views. Of course grades are not meaningless, and we all work hard, and are judged on what the inspector sees when she visits.
I have requested a re-inspection, and am probably still raw from a **** inspection, so excuse me if this clouds my judgement. I do not mind being graded as satisfactory, I know I am still developing certain parts of my business which would not allow me to be graded as outstanding.

Overall though, the vast majority of CM's are the cream of the crop. I do take note of how these and 'Good' CM's work, because I have only been doing this for 2.5 years, and some of these guys have been in the game for much longer. I have gained a wealth of knowledge from these people, and have imparted some of my own thoughts and practices to them, some of which I have picked up from here.

However, those of you who have pointed out that this sort of thing happens in all walks of like, and jobs, hit the nail on the head. Yes, of course there are always going to be people who can play the game! I hadn't thought of this.:o
I was a manager at a company a few years back where this chap got fastracked to senior management,off the back of other people ideas. He was great at talking about his ideas, and acheivements, and the managers loved it. He wasn't actually any good at his job, but they never got to find out, as he was great at covering his tracks. I guess this is the same analogy. He was just one fish in a very big pond.

Thank you everyone for opening my eyes and putting up with my rant. I have resolved to stop worrying about other CM's and their standards.I'm the only one who matters
Ooooh, and I hope the lady who had the car accident is OK.;)

Bekki - honestly hun, no one was having a pop - we love nothing more than a juicy meaty subject to get our teef into! lol Thats the beauty of this forum - we can have the differences of opinion, we can argue our own view in safety and a bit later on all be in the lounge having a giggle lol
Another reason this forum is smashing - just talking things out can help you see things from a different angle.
I would bet we all learn something new or change our perspectives slightly just from what we have gleaned on here - from its wonderful members.

Mollymop
27-03-2010, 10:25 PM
I have always thought imo that OfStEd (whoo dedicate self employed persons to inspect us, known as inspectors, whom don't all work on the same page, and all have different opinions on who they think are satisfac, good, outstng) should grade us childcare workers as a "pass" or a "fail" --- (with recommendations too if needed)

simples!!!:)

dlissaman
27-03-2010, 10:40 PM
I am double outstanding.

I eat sleep and breath the children's needs. Yes my paperwork was up to date, It followed every child's individual need/area of learning.

I am sorry for the people that are very good child communicators but who are not up to date with the paper requirements.

However, i treat every single working moment like it is an Ofsted visit, that is how we should opperate, putting the children's needs first and working out where they can go from there.

I need to add, that at my inspection (this year), I was minding my two grandchildren and one mindee. My eldest grandson who was 3 y.o. was a real show off and demanded my or Mrs.O's attention the whole time. My grand-daughter who was approaching 2 y.o. strapped herself to by hip and cryed for the duration and the minded child, whilst being a rising 3 is being assessed for statementing. I could have so easily not have had the grandchildren on the day but wanted Mrs. O. to see it as it is.

Bushpig
28-03-2010, 01:26 AM
I was gobsmacked when I got my outstanding in all areas :eek: ... I was the second in the history of the borough to get it at my first inspection.... as I had never had one before I didn't know what to expect and was just myself on the day... with three under 3s.

I fully recognise the fact that someone with a lesser grading (in the eyes of Offie, not the kids or parents!) might very well be outstanding in their CM practice... but not too hot on their paperwork skills. Unfortunately this is a key area of the profession though.

No matter what your grading is... one should never stop learning or striving to do the best for the little ones in one's care... and this is all that really matters at the end of the day. :thumbsup:

The only person you should ever try and measure up to is yourself.

Ripeberry
28-03-2010, 06:46 PM
Thank you for the virtual bottle of wine...lovely :D Hope you get your new inspection soon.