Like Bees not Butterflies Conference (today)

[Pipsqueak]

Thats the title of the conference that I attended today with Ros Bayley and Sally Featherstone.

All about child initiated learning.

There is a book (that we were given free) of the same name - 14 authors and edited by Sally Featherstone.

The conference was wonderful and inspiring.

It focused on childs play and true child initiated (play) and how we as adults - often trample all over a childs play.


true play is freely chosen by the child - not something we set up/set out/suggest etc it is based on the childs own motivation

child initiated (CI) play should last at least 1/3 of their day - ie they are with you 3hrs therefore CI should last at least 1hr

Don't set things out for them - that is not child initiated -
instead set up the shelves, boxes (ie label them) so that children can easily select what they want and follow what they want to do

take it outside

wait to be invited into a childs play

don't keep questioning them, instead sit down with or near them if you think you will accepted and 'self talk' and see if the child engages with you - if they haven't within 10 minutes you are not invited

don't keep talking to or at them - its ok to 'just' observe and let them get on with it
there is no such thing as 'just' observing - you are facilitating 'deep play that equals deep learning'

IF you have to finish the CI then instead of having to clear everything away is there somewhere where the child can put their lego creation for tomorrow

think about how we organise the provision is it exciting, inviting, - freedom within a framework - a place for everything and everything in its place - this works for we get it out - it goes away

there is no such thing as 'just' playing - it is playing and playing is when children are learning at their deepest

allow for risks

for CI - children need: plenty of space and time to play

children who are allowed to play with resources and equipment in their own way are more likely to learn to solve a problem easier when shown how to use it properly

recommended a new booklet from the DCSF - Learning, Playing and Interacting (apparently the government did not want the word playing to be at the forefront!!!! - how telling) - two other booklets that accomany it are Children Thinking Mathematically and Numbers and Patterns

Everyone, including children are at their optimal best in the mornings and unnecessary things like assembly (schools) shopping should be put off if possible - let the children explore and play (I am explaining this bit badly sorry) Children have 'in-built' exploratory tendancies particuarly in the mornings

Afternoons (after lunch) is when we are digesting food - we lose hydration and need water more frequently to promote and aid learning (and those connections)

children learn really well to a strong beat and movement




We went on to talk about brain development, neuron connectors and myelination (the coating that helps to 'hardwire' the connections)

They went on a lot about how EY settings in schools ie state nursery and reception need to argue the point about allowing children to play - play properly.

We need to allow children to repeatedly practice new things and skills in their own way (but we also need to scaffold/model)

Get rid of goals/aims/objectives in the sense that we direct the play - instead get creative to incorporate the childs play towards the goals.

In a nutshell - what US minders are pretty good at already methinks!

Obviously there is a lot more to it and I have probably explained it badly but hopefully enough to intrigue you.

Ros Bayley got us all up dancing and singing and at the end she told us an interactive story with a puppet - what a treat.:thumbsup:

[manjay]

Sounds fab:thumbsup:

I am off to a Foundation Phase conference tomorrow which is a bit of a novelty as most childminders are not required to follow it. Really looking forward to it:D

[mama2three]

pip how inspiring! going to print that out and use it when i reflect on our day. i sometimes find it hard to get the right balance , and to stop myself feeling guilty when im not interacting with them! Thankyou x

[Pipsqueak]

pip how inspiring! going to print that out and use it when i reflect on our day. i sometimes find it hard to get the right balance , and to stop myself feeling guilty when im not interacting with them! Thankyou x

Another cut out and keep!!

Some features of Settings that motivate and engage:

flexible planning
(Sally recommended having a note to remind ourselves saying:
This plan may change at any time in the interests of childrens interests!)
encouragement for indpendance and autonomy
plenty of child initiated learning at prime times of the day
long periods of time when children can continue their chosen activities
places for storing unfinished or ongoing projects
time for children to talk with each other and adults - before they work, during the activity and after they have finished
choice of where, what and who they play with
easy access of resources and equipment - so children can find things they need
flexible use of the indoor and outdoor environments
an atmosphere of challenge, success, appropriate reward

[Pipsqueak]

Some more quotes:

If we are to be the best providers for the children we work with, we must also be the best observers
Mary Jane Drummond


If you just relax and listen to the children talk you hear the sounds of their thinking
Vivian Gussin Paley





Key Elements of Adult Support
Sharing control
Focusing on children's strengths
forming authentic relationships
supporting childrens play
adopting a problem solving approach

The role of the adult:
manager
observer
co-player

Adult interaction into play:
The SOUL
Silence
Observation
Understanding
Listening

be aware of our intrusion and intervention - neither of these are interaction

[mama2three]

the hardest bit is the unfinished projects. no way can i keep the sofa come pirate ship like that until tomorrow morning - dh would throw a wobbly! i have found myself taking photos before i ' dechild' my lounge overnight - then trying to recreate it in the morning. they always notice though! :o

[Pipsqueak]

the hardest bit is the unfinished projects. no way can i keep the sofa come pirate ship like that until tomorrow morning - dh would throw a wobbly! i have found myself taking photos before i ' dechild' my lounge overnight - then trying to recreate it in the morning. they always notice though! :o

and that (as they told us today) is the mark of a sensitive practitioner - something that you can't keep - you took a photo off so that children can preserve that

see i told you us minders are good!!!!:thumbsup: but we knew that already:clapping:

i think they mean keeping unfinished projects like drawings, lego, projects that it is possible to set aside

[Pipsqueak]

http://www.rosbayley.com/

[ORKSIE]

Feel totally overwhelmed (sp)

I dont put toys out for My Lo I ask what he wants to choose.
Duplo, is always the answer. And he always makes the same thing in exactly the same same way!

So I have realised I have to put out different toys for him, to promote diferent skills. and not let him choose:panic: which I know is wrong, but what else do I do to promote his role play:huh:

[Pipsqueak]

Feel totally overwhelmed (sp)

I dont put toys out for My Lo I ask what he wants to choose.
Duplo, is always the answer. And he always makes the same thing in exactly the same same way!

So I have realised I have to put out different toys for him, to promote diferent skills. and not let him choose:panic: which I know is wrong, but what else do I do to promote his role play:huh:

aha - I have an answer for that too (I am all knowledgable tonight - the information from this training really sunk in)

Ros/Sally explained a childs repetitive behaviour like this as to be supported. Its an extended schema - the child is building their connection in the brain and to help that we should encourage the reptition for as long and often. The child will eventually finish with it in their own time - when their 'pre-disposed tendancy' to learn in this area has been built in the brain.

To aid/support the learning - use the duplo in different contexts ie outside, in a den, in the sand/water, put in into a context of builders - get the builders hats out - use the environment

That would be his 1/3rd child initiated play

he can pack it away /store unfinished projects and then you can go onto adult initiated/plans etc

provide similar role play experiences - have you some planks of wood, bricks/blocks for outside so he can experiment on a bigger scale? provide other types of bricks and you parallel play using the other equipment for example

heck - I hope i am explaining all this adequately

oooh I feel my brain getting bigger/better already:D

[ORKSIE]

aha - I have an answer for that too (I am all knowledgable tonight - the information from this training really sunk in)

Ros/Sally explained a childs repetitive behaviour like this as to be supported. Its an extended schema - the child is building their connection in the brain and to help that we should encourage the reptition for as long and often. The child will eventually finish with it in their own time - when their 'pre-disposed tendancy' to learn in this area has been built in the brain.

To aid/support the learning - use the duplo in different contexts ie outside, in a den, in the sand/water, put in into a context of builders - get the builders hats out - use the environment

That would be his 1/3rd child initiated play

he can pack it away /store unfinished projects and then you can go onto adult initiated/plans etc

provide similar role play experiences - have you some planks of wood, bricks/blocks for outside so he can experiment on a bigger scale? provide other types of bricks and you parallel play using the other equipment for example

heck - I hope i am explaining all this adequately

oooh I feel my brain getting bigger/better already:D

You so have:thumbsup: He is a scema! has to cover his creations, or build the same one over and over.
I can put the Duplo in different areas, No probs.
Ha Ha!!!!
Thank you XXX

[tulip0803]

Sounds fab:thumbsup:

I am off to a Foundation Phase conference tomorrow which is a bit of a novelty as most childminders are not required to follow it. Really looking forward to it:D

I really enjoyed the one in South Wales :D

[sarah707]

Wow thank you for the feedback!

You are obviously inspired :D

[The Juggler]

sounds brilliant Pip. Might try to get on one if they run one in London or near.

[mum26]

That is such interesting and helpful information - you have explained it all so well.

[Carol M]

WOW. Wish I could have gone too. How truely inspiring.
Can you point me in the right direction to access these conferences?
Thanks Pip
Carol x

[mushpea]

sounds like a very infomative conference , wish i could have gone.

so they say dont set the toys up and let the child choose but what if you have a 4yrold child that wouldnt get anything out and would just sit next to you on the sofa all day (her 6yrold sister does this too), i find the evenngs very agrevating as i sit down to do a bit of paperwork whilst they all play nicley but nope, as soon as i sit down they stop play and sit down next to me , infact almost on top of me! any ideas on how to encourage them to play

[Pipsqueak]

Very inspired lol I found the talks very interesting and I am really into the brain research/development part of it all.

Was reading some of this back and thought OMG I come across as preachy!

Again, what Mushpea is saying was raised - children who don't play - this is where you take them by the hand , have a look at the toys together and ask them what they want to do - a bit of adult led and suggestion.
Are these your own children Mush? Mine do the same - all they want is to sit with me and I have sort of looked at it from the opposite side and thought that they just want to have a bit of me time. I try to make the compromise with them - you play for half an hour while I get on and then we will read etc.

[Heaven Scent]

That is very interesting and reassueing as I am Montessori trained that is how I work I have to say that most of our day, where possible, is child initiated - that goes for the schoolies and pre schoolies. I don't expect the schoolies to restrict their play by the pre schoolies - I do take my preschoolies out somewhere different every morning but with the exception of an hour on a wednesday when we do Jo Jingles they are left to get on with it and I never interrupt their play. If they want me they come to me - Don't get me wrong I will interrupt if they are displaying unacceptable behaviour. Montessorians are Facilitators and Passive observers.

I never lay out toys for the children everything is away on open shelves and in storage boxes and they know where everything is and they also know that when they have finished with something they put it back where they got it from - "A place for everything and everyting in its place" They are free to play with what ever they want for as long as they want within the constraints of the day - e.g. school runs etc etc.

I very rarely take them shopping with me - its boreing for them and doesn't allow for much interaction with each other. My exception to the rule is on a Thursday morning I go to the library for story time which is only an hour long so when its over I often pop into B&M to see if they have anything new or any bargains that I can buy to use with the chilren e.g. child sized gardening tools, seeds & plants etc or something for a birthday present for a mindee. I tend to restrict my shopping to one shop and its usually a quick trip and it is for something of interest to them - I have been known to nip in to farm stores for milk or fruit again it has to be something for them - I choose those two shops as they are the closest to the car park and the library which means its quick and the children don't get bored or tired walking. My other exception to this is when about twice a year another minder and I take our mindees on a short train or bus journey to local towns as a treat again we go to ELC & Poundland etc and I get stuff for my practice - I don't actually buy them stuff to take home but I buy stuff for them to use when they are with me and where possible I involve them in choices etc - I don't think that children should associate every trip to the shops with them being bought a treat - the treat in those trips out are the bus/train ride - snack in a coffe shop with their friends. Another time I'd take them to a shop is if we were following a topic and a trip to a specialist shop e.g. chinese supermarket, butchers or bread shop etc would be relevant or help them to get a better understanding then we would go and buy something and hopefully explain the reason for the trip to a member of staff that could spare a minute or two to speak to the children.

Orksie, don't worry too much about the duplo child - on this course it was only recommended that 1/3 of the day should be spent on child initiated play so you have at least another third where you can introduce them to other toys games etc - then there is the other third spent on such things as school runs, eating, chill out time etc (Not much can happen at sleep time - except if you put some toys in the cot for them to play with before they drop off and when they wake up like I do) where you can widen their interest base. If you use TV & DVD's for some chill out sessions then you can control what they watch - ie programmes which involve M&M or things like Dora etc where they have to engage in problem solving and map reading etc ,& story time with or without sacks are all very useful for broadening their interests in other things - then there is craft time Junk modelling can be used to create all sorts of stuff.

I have a mindee who is obsessed with fire engines and busses all he spoke about all day was fire engines and busses but even busses went "NeeeNaw" this got so bad that my other mindee (a girl) called all cars "NeeNaw's" and because the boy calls all busses "Our Bus" but not very clearly she calles all busses "Tower Bus" - I put all my fire engines, ambulances, police cars etc with lights on the top away for a while so that he could play with the cars etc and use his imagination and broaden his interests with all the other toys I have. The problem was the little girl wasn't getting a chance to develop her interest or to choose what they would play with. I have been to his home and know for a fact that the only toys he has out are all related to fire stations etc and everything is red - so to me that is unhealthy and is not providing him with any opportunity to develop interests in anything else. i have now reintroduced all the "Nee Naw" vehicles into the car boxes and although he does play with them - its no longer his first choice of toy and he is willing to go along with the little girls choice. Also when he plays with the cars & road mat etc he gives equal importance to the regular cars as he does the "Nee Naws"

I also have to say I removed the "Nee Naws" at christmas when I brought down all my christmas related stuff - stories, dressing up stuff etc and I had to put away other stuff to make room then for the week around christmas I almost completely emptied all the toys from the room as my minding room is my dining room and I wanted to eat my Christmas dinner in a child/toy free zone. Due to all the changes the child didn't really notice the lack of "Nee Naws" in the room and when I put them back in I did it gradually. I have even added a fire station and a couple of fire men etc and although he talks about playing with them - he doesn't spend long doing it.

Thank you so much for sharing you were obviously very inspired.

[PixiePetal]

Thanks for a really interesting thread :thumbsup:

Makes me believe in myself and what I am doing :)

[Pipsqueak]

thank you for your very interesting post Heaven (isn't that what makes this forum so diverse and interesting)

and like everyone is saying - it really is what us minders 'got' way before EYFS, we already do what all the other settings are now being told to do - its what us minders are so good at.
Its very reassuring to know that what we do is right:thumbsup:

[Blaze]

Like Bees, not Butterflies is a fab book...there is a book that goes with it called Again, Again - all about schemas (lots of ideas & linked to EYFS):thumbsup:

Sally featherstone also does a great range of little books...I am saving up to buy some more....I have the little book of big ideas for outdoor play.:)

[Polly2]

This sounds sooo interesting :thumbsup: thanks for sharing. Would you recommend buying the book? Does it cover a lot of what you were saying? I would be really interested in learning more.

It may help for assignments for my fd also :D

[Pipsqueak]

This sounds sooo interesting :thumbsup: thanks for sharing. Would you recommend buying the book? Does it cover a lot of what you were saying? I would be really interested in learning more.

It may help for assignments for my fd also :D

would recommend the book absolutely. It covers what I have been saying:thumbsup:

[francinejayne]

How very interesting, it sounds like you had a wonderful day.

I am new to minding, but not new to motherhood, and so far I have found that other than the documentation requirements, the EYFS and everything that is expected of me is what I have been doing with my children for the past 15 years.

I was chatting with a very experienced minder a few weeks ago and I asked her did she ever just sit back on the sofa and just watch the children, to which she replied 'no, I am being paid to look after and interact with the children'. I told her that in my experience I love just watching the children play sometimes, and in my house I can sit at the dining table and see the children in the conservatory (the 2 rooms are joined together and are one big space) play with their choice of toys, they are totally involved in what they are doing, chatting to themselves and in their own little world. If I ever try and join in they tend to stop their lovely play and it seems to spoil what they are doing. She made me feel that I wasn't doing my job properly :(

So now I shall go back to sitting and observing them sometimes, I get so much pleasure from it, and they are developing too!

Thanks!

[Polly2]

Right, you have inspired me, I'm off to amazon again :D Thanks Pip :thumbsup:

[nannymcflea]

Thanks Pip.
I shall copy what you've written, if thats ok so I can bring it up at the next staff meeting. We have changed our nursery to self reg in the morning so theres no break in play until snack time. I do feel staff occasionally push children into moulding their play certain ways, mainly to break rather boisterous behaviour!(though ALL staff are lovely and very dedicated :thumbsup: ).

Am off to google the book/info about conferences. Sounds fab.

Nothing this area booked. Will email CCC and see if they are interested.:thumbsup:

Thanks again.

[sandy64]

thanks pip that is really interested glad you got so much out of it and passed your knowledge to us thanks what is the name of the book and any idea best place to buy from? :)

[Chimps Childminding]

How very interesting, it sounds like you had a wonderful day.

I am new to minding, but not new to motherhood, and so far I have found that other than the documentation requirements, the EYFS and everything that is expected of me is what I have been doing with my children for the past 15 years.

I was chatting with a very experienced minder a few weeks ago and I asked her did she ever just sit back on the sofa and just watch the children, to which she replied 'no, I am being paid to look after and interact with the children'. I told her that in my experience I love just watching the children play sometimes, and in my house I can sit at the dining table and see the children in the conservatory (the 2 rooms are joined together and are one big space) play with their choice of toys, they are totally involved in what they are doing, chatting to themselves and in their own little world. If I ever try and join in they tend to stop their lovely play and it seems to spoil what they are doing. She made me feel that I wasn't doing my job properly :(

So now I shall go back to sitting and observing them sometimes, I get so much pleasure from it, and they are developing too! Thanks!

On a Thursday June and I have 3 x 3 and 4 year old girls between us, and they simply do not want us interferring in their games! It it lovely to sit back for a while and just let them do whatever they want (except for the odd arguement) They ask us if they want anything but other than that they just get on with whatever they are doing without our help or input!!!

[Pipsqueak]

thanks pip that is really interested glad you got so much out of it and passed your knowledge to us thanks what is the name of the book and any idea best place to buy from? :)

Like Bees Not Butterflies (various authors) edited by Sally and Phil Featherstone
www.acblack.com/featherstone
isbn: 978-1-906029-76-0

Blaze is right - the book Again Again goes alongside this book too.

[mama2three]

just trying to work out the title , what do the bees and butterflies signify?

[Pipsqueak]

Bees - busy little bees working (hard at playing)
Butterflies - instead of flitting around from thing to thing - never having time to settle at one thing

[manjay]

Some more quotes:

If we are to be the best providers for the children we work with, we must also be the best observers
Mary Jane Drummond


I have just used one of her quotes in my latest assignments

“we observe children’s learning, strive to understand it and then put our understanding to good use”

Really good thread Pip. Some very interesting reading:thumbsup:

[mama2three]

ah , of course.

[Bitsy Beans]

Wow that makes for interesting reading :D

Edited because I realised the question I'd asked I'd also mentioned on another thread that Pipsqueak had answered :o