View Full Version : Really interesting debate on Mumsnet
Pudding Girl
02-03-2010, 11:35 AM
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/920907?pagingOff=1#18768600
Nice to see a reasonable interesting discussion concerning childminders on Mumsnet for a change!
Parents wishes vs welfare of the child and CM's own opinions.
What do you all think? Has anyone been in this position?
mamasheshe
02-03-2010, 12:21 PM
hmmmm interesting think I'd say i wasn't comfortable until at LEAST 17 weeks even then would prefer to wait they could still give baby food at home but i wouldn't feel comfortable and stick to milk,
mama2three
02-03-2010, 12:22 PM
you're self-employed - you offer what you offer, and if the customer doesn't want it they can look elsewhere
you wouldn't go into a sweet shop and complain because they didn't sell binbags
excellent!!
gigglinggoblin
02-03-2010, 12:26 PM
Out of interest does anyone know what ofsted thinks? Are you even insured if you are going against guidleines? What if baby chokes or something and you have to admit you were ignoring health professionals advice
Mrs.L.C
02-03-2010, 12:32 PM
I would advise parents of the guidelines of when it is best to introduce solids and give information on this and just say you would be happier them feeding the solids at home as they only have a few spoon fulls to start off with once a day anyway.
AS regards to alot of people saying its too young - out of interest how many of us started our own on solids around 3 months? I know many parents that have and have said they go with the baby's needs
Blaze
02-03-2010, 12:38 PM
I replied - briefly! What I found interesting is that the general concensus was that bf babies are less hungry than bottlefed babies - in my experience it's the other way round!:rolleyes:
sweets
02-03-2010, 12:42 PM
i think i would blame it on ofsted! lol. i would tell the parents that i'm really sorry but ofsted wont allow CM to wean before 20wks as they wont be insured/
Pudding Girl
02-03-2010, 12:42 PM
Out of interest does anyone know what ofsted thinks? Are you even insured if you are going against guidleines? What if baby chokes or something and you have to admit you were ignoring health professionals advice
Good point.
This whole debate reminds me of the one (on here was it?) about not letting a child sleep was wrong even if it went against parent's wishes (or something, think that was the jist of it)
I think I'd be really sad to be having to feed a baby that young against guidelines and would have to say something.
all babies are different and have different needs,
sorry but if parents wanted to wean i wouldn't refuse :panic:
both my kids were weaned at around 6 weeks old, mark was weaned at 6 weeks on the advice of my HV as he was taking 18ozs of milk at each feed :eek: (and he was born 4 weeks early, always was a hungry baby :laughing: )
i'm going to email ofsted and ask :D
jelly15
02-03-2010, 01:09 PM
Gosh hope I don't come across this situation, however, I think I would refuse, 12 weeks is young by todays advice. If it was a few weeks early I would go along with parents wishes but that is asking a bit much. If they weren't happy with me them I would be happy to give / receive notice.
Tinglesnark
02-03-2010, 01:13 PM
well from my experience, i had one bottle fed baby (ds1) that was weaned at 3 months because he just couldnt get enough milk in him to fill him and i have one breastfed baby (ds2) who wasnt weaned until 6months (he is still being breastfed btw - my proudest achievement to date :D) and even then it was slow and steady. ds1 is incredibly fussy whereas ds2 eats everything, enjoys everything and seems to be ready for every meal and snack all day long haha
i would go with the notion that mother knows best* and i would offer my own advice and then i would (unless i seriously didnt agree) go with the parents wishes.
as others have said, each baby is different and i have found that bottle fed babies simply cannot hold the volume of milk that they need to keep them full and my theory is that the formula is so heavy and thick that it makes their little tummies expand at a more rapid rate because of the volume that they can consume (kinda stands to reason really) which then follows that they are going to need something more substantial to fill them and to me, if a baby needs something then i will provide them with whatever myself and the parent deems is necessary....
:thumbsup:
*disclaimer - all freaks and wierdos are exempt from this statement....:thumbsup:
The Juggler
02-03-2010, 02:26 PM
Gosh hope I don't come across this situation, however, I think I would refuse, 12 weeks is young by todays advice. If it was a few weeks early I would go along with parents wishes but that is asking a bit much. If they weren't happy with me them I would be happy to give / receive notice.
I don't think I would worry so much after 4/5 months as until recently that was what we all did but 12 weeks is early. I would refuse on the basis of our regulations to ensure children are kept healthy and this is well before the recommended time.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your email.
In reference to your enquiry, the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) is the new statutory framework for the education and welfare of children from birth to the 31 August following their fifth birthday. The EYFS has formed the basis of all inspections of provision for young children in this age group since September 2008. It was introduced by the Childcare Act 2006 which set out the basis for how Ofsted will register and inspect early years provisions from September 2008.
The EYFS provides a single framework for early learning, bringing together and building on the previous materials: Birth to three matters, Curriculum guidance for the foundation stage, and the National standards for under-8s day care and childminding.
The introduction of the EYFS provides Ofsted with the opportunity to bring greater consistency to the inspection of early years provision across the sector.
Further information can be found in the Early Years Foundation Stage statutory framework here.
The Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) states:
"Where children are provided with meals, snacks and drinks, these must be healthy, balanced and nutritious. Those responsible for the preparation of food must be competent to do so."
This is a specific legal requirement and providers must show how they meet this in order to remain compliant with the EYFS. The statutory framework is available online at http://www.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/eyfs/site/resource/pdfs.htm
This means that providers must use their judgement, or seek advice and guidance from the local authority, to ensure that menus are healthy, balanced and nutritious; and that those responsible for preparing food have completed an appropriate induction and/or training in food hygiene. At inspection we will look at whether the children are eating healthy meals and snacks and that those who prepare the food are competent. If the inspector finds that this is an area of provision that could be improved they may make a recommendation. If the specific requirement is not met the inspector will set an action. If an action is set the provider will be sent a notice to improve which they are required to respond to detailing what they have done to address the issue. If the inspector is not satisfied with the provider's response, they may make another visit to the provider. If the inspector has serious concerns about food hygiene, they can contact the local environmental health department and ask them to visit the provider.
However, as well as the requirements for healthy eating it is very important that providers work in partnership with parents so that they are able to meet children's individual needs. Providers should attempt to discuss a child's dietary needs with parents and come to the best arrangement to satisfy these. All providers must make it clear to parents how they can raise concerns about any aspect of their child's care. Parents are not required to make a complaint but could use this procedure to discuss any concerns.
Parents and carers should be able to get help and guidance from the local authority on what to look for; there is also some helpful information online at www.direct.gov.uk regarding diets for children under five
I hope you find this information of use. However, should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us
mamasheshe
02-03-2010, 04:08 PM
so we should stick to guidelines and work in partnership with parents ?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
LOOPYLISA
02-03-2010, 04:09 PM
all babies are different and have different needs,
sorry but if parents wanted to wean i wouldn't refuse :panic:
both my kids were weaned at around 6 weeks old, mark was weaned at 6 weeks on the advice of my HV as he was taking 18ozs of milk at each feed :eek: (and he was born 4 weeks early, always was a hungry baby :laughing: )
My dd was weaned very early too, Emily was over 9lb and a hungry baby :thumbsup:
My dd was weaned very early too, Emily was over 9lb and a hungry baby :thumbsup:
mark was 4 weeks early and weighed 6lb 6ozs :laughing:
so we should stick to guidelines and work in partnership with parents ?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
typical response from the big O :rolleyes:
Blaze
02-03-2010, 04:31 PM
mark was 4 weeks early and weighed 6lb 6ozs :laughing:
My eldest DD was 4 weeks early & weighed 8lbs 6oz!:rolleyes: :laughing:
sarahlou
02-03-2010, 04:40 PM
all clear from the ofsted corner:rolleyes:
venus89
02-03-2010, 04:40 PM
Was that Ofsted sitting on the fence again?
mummyof3
02-03-2010, 04:57 PM
I would do whatever the parents asked me to do it is 'their' child and not mine. I would also get them to sign something to say this is their wishes and should anything happen I'm not liable.
I weaned 2 of mine early one at 12wks and one at 11wks both were starving and feeding every half an hour on 8oz bottles of hungry baby formula. My dd was weaned at 5mths and she was the worlds most fussiest eater!
LOOPYLISA
02-03-2010, 04:58 PM
My eldest DD was 4 weeks early & weighed 8lbs 6oz!:rolleyes: :laughing:
:eek:
Wow :D
mamasheshe
02-03-2010, 05:26 PM
Was that Ofsted sitting on the fence again?
no that doesn't sound like ofsted to me :laughing: :blush:
mamasheshe
02-03-2010, 05:26 PM
:eek:
Wow :D
my dd2 was 9 1/2 pounds and a day early :eek:
LOOPYLISA
02-03-2010, 05:28 PM
my dd2 was 9 1/2 pounds and a day early :eek:
9LB 1oz ans 2 days early, just missed grandads birthday :thumbsup:
I don't think there was anymore room in there:D im only tiny too :thumbsup:
SORRY I HAVE not read the whole thread so may be missing the point
but my son was weaned at 12 weeks because that's what we did then
Minstrel
02-03-2010, 06:00 PM
oh can i join in!
ds1 10lb 1oz
ds2 8lb 8oz (2 weeks early)
I weaned my eldest at 12 weeks (can' remember 2nd ds how awful!)
I'm not sure what i would do in this situation and hope i am never faced with it.
jumpinjen
02-03-2010, 06:03 PM
I would discuss the safety aspects of the baby's swallowing not being well developed enough to cope with solids at that age and that i would be happy to offer 'tiny tastes' at the other children's mealtimes if they wished but would not offer substabtial amounts due to the risks that it put the baby at and that if i had knowingly done something that i knew to be risky and the child becamne ill by aspirating food into her lungs, i would not be covered ny insurance. i would offer leaflets and suggest talking to Hv if they had concerns like slow eight gain etc, and talk to them about when and why i started to wean and the signs to look out for. But then i have a good working relationships with my parents and I could say those things!
Jenni:)
The Juggler
02-03-2010, 09:22 PM
oh can i join in!
ds1 10lb 1oz
ds2 8lb 8oz (2 weeks early)
I weaned my eldest at 12 weeks (can' remember 2nd ds how awful!)
I'm not sure what i would do in this situation and hope i am never faced with it.
my friend had an 11 lb 30z - naturally:eek: think he was weaned at 16 weeks.
Minstrel
03-03-2010, 09:39 AM
my friend had an 11 lb 30z - naturally:eek: think he was weaned at 16 weeks.
same I had him naturally at home and no pain relief. Same with ds2 and hopefully with this one too.:)
little chickee
03-03-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm not sure i agree with early weaning - it really is best and possible to feed babies exclusively on milk be that bottle or breast for 5-6 months.
My eldest is 13 and guidelines were weaning at 16 weeks. I was under pressure from my HV to wean him so tried it and he hated it - would scream blue murder which was distressing for both of us so i put it off for a while then tried again - he was 6-7 months before he would take small amounts of food without screaming.
Then because he was 7 months HV insisted he should be on lumpy food which he also hated so i refused and we did it at our own pace with her suggesting all sorts of dire consequences for him.
Now at 13 he is a very good eater, healthy appetite, eats most things so its all good.
I have with all 3 of mine kept them on mainly milk until about 6 months but introduced tiny amounts of food for them to taste but main nutrition was from milk.
Just want to add that my youngest son had ice- cream at 10 weeks!! just a bit cos it was a really hot day and he loved it:thumbsup:
My eldest is 13 and guidelines were weaning at 16 weeks. I was under pressure from my HV to wean him so tried it and he hated it - would scream blue murder which was distressing for both of us
i think this post points out that all children are different, some are ready to weaned at an earlier age then most.
isnt it funny how everything is about "the individual child" with ofsted (hence feeding when the child is ready) but the government says not before 6 months (as thats what they have been advised)
as a parent i did what was right for MY children, and i would go along with the parents wishes if the child is happy too :thumbsup:
youarewhatyoueat
03-03-2010, 11:34 AM
I've just read this and although none of mine were weaned before 5 months, mainly because they were not interested, the point is all children are different.
Regarding weaning other peoples children early I would only do it on the advice of a hv. I would also want to know exactly what was in the food the parents were providing and if the child was having something they hadn't tried before, just in case of any reactions.
I would also want to know if the parents or other siblings have any food intolerances. I would not want to wean using any gluten products, salt etc.
Thinking about it I would only agree to do it if the hv or doctor thought it was necessary and not just because the child was having a growth spurt and wasn't sleeping through the night.
Thankfully the babies I have had have come to me at 9 months becaus the parents took full maternity leave.