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View Full Version : Would you give notice in order to earn more?



francinejayne
25-02-2010, 07:34 PM
A local CM looks after a mindee 3 days a week. It can be any 3 days due to dad's shift patterns which change from week to week. Their contract states that the parents pay for 3 days each week - even though they are different days each week. The CM has had the mindee for some time and everything has been fine as far as I am aware. The CM has no vacancies but has been approached to look after a baby from June for 4 set days a week. The CM would have to give 4 weeks notice to the current mindee. And it woud obviously mean that the CM would be earning more money each week, and could also potentially take someone else on for the 1 day the new baby wouldn't be there. But it would mean no continuity of care for the current mindee. And also potentially leaving the mindee's parents desperately trying to find a child minder for their child with only 4 weeks notice (a friend of mine has really struggled to find a good CM recently in the same area)

What would you do?

I think I know what I would do, and it is different to what the CM has chosen to do, so I just wondered what the general opinion was?

Joannechildmind
25-02-2010, 07:39 PM
i have been in this situation before and i stuck with the original mindies because we had bonded and they were lovely even tho i could potentally of earnt 3 times as much, if i had really needed the money then i wouldnt have had a choice and would have given notice.

mama2three
25-02-2010, 07:39 PM
it depends on lots of things. mainly what financial position i was in and whether i actually 'needed' the extra income rather than just wanting it! I would have to put my own childrens needs before mindee in that case. also what the long term view was - if i only had mindee 1 for another few months before going off to school but mindee 2 would be with me years potentially. And how well i got on with the first parent - how flexible , reliable etc they were and how valued i felt by them. So the answer is I dont know! not much help was I?

babs
25-02-2010, 07:40 PM
personaly i would keep with current child i know one days pay is more money but this child has settled , but maybe she should have charged for a full week as days change and she cant take on any other children...

huggableshelly
25-02-2010, 07:47 PM
I would keep the origional children and apply for a variation to take on another child.

Bitsy Beans
25-02-2010, 08:09 PM
Like the others have said it would depend on a number of factors, money, whether new hours would fit into my current routine etc.
I am suprised CM hasn't upped hourly rate or charged a retainer to recompense for the loss of potential income from being able to offer care on a fixed days. that would at least eliminate finance being at the heart of any decision.

Blaze
25-02-2010, 08:16 PM
I would go for the fixed for days - I am a business & not a charity - would feel awful though! (Actually having said that I would have negotiated a retainer for the days not used & then not have had to make the decision in the first place)!

claireLouise
25-02-2010, 08:22 PM
I agree with the above responses I would keep with the orginal mindee. She has made a commitment to the child and family and should not be advertising that she has a vacancy as there is no place without "getting rid" of a current child in her care.

Kind Regards

Ps Interested to hear what she did decide and what you would have done!

Chatterbox Childcare
25-02-2010, 08:36 PM
I took up childminding so that I could be at home with my children and earn a living BUT that doesn't come at the expense of another family or their child.

I couldn't in good concience take on a child and then ditch them because something better came along. I wouldn't take on the child in the first place or if I did I would charge a highly inflated price to compensate.

I think that continuity of care is the pinicale of my business and I wouldn't sacrifice any childs security to financially better myself.

If this is happening to someone you know, could you suggest that she/he goes back to the current parent and explain why she may have to consider notice and maybe they could come to a compromise or as someone has already said take on the extra and apply for an overlap?

Mouse
25-02-2010, 08:38 PM
I would keep the origional mindee. Once I have made a commitment to a family I stick to it. I have never given anyone notice although the situation has arisen where I could have earned more money by doing that.

wendywu
25-02-2010, 08:50 PM
I think i would have had a minimum i was willing to earn a week and charged her that.

I would not take 3 days pay for a full weeks place in the first instance. :)

The Juggler
25-02-2010, 09:08 PM
I would go for the fixed for days - I am a business & not a charity - would feel awful though! (Actually having said that I would have negotiated a retainer for the days not used & then not have had to make the decision in the first place)!

I agree with making sure a retainer was taken in the first place, but ethically if I had agreed to those terms unless things were becoming awkward with parents or finances at breakpoint I don't think I could give notice for extra cash.

I think I'd rather discuss with parents about the finances and maybe negotiate a retainer due to lost business on days she is holding.

francinejayne
25-02-2010, 09:44 PM
Interesting! And thanks for all your replies!

The CM has signed a contract with the new parents to start looking after their baby in June and is going to give the original parents notice in May.

I would have continued with the first parents as if I had their little one and someone approached me asking if I had vacancies my answer would have been no!

The CM in question has asked me "if you want X you can have him in June" as I am newly registered and so have vacancies. I just feel so sorry for the mindee and his parents - they have no idea about what is going to happen and it has shocked me. I wasn't sure if it was normal practice or not?

The Juggler
25-02-2010, 09:52 PM
Interesting! And thanks for all your replies!

The CM has signed a contract with the new parents to start looking after their baby in June and is going to give the original parents notice in May.

I would have continued with the first parents as if I had their little one and someone approached me asking if I had vacancies my answer would have been no!

The CM in question has asked me "if you want X you can have him in June" as I am newly registered and so have vacancies. I just feel so sorry for the mindee and his parents - they have no idea about what is going to happen and it has shocked me. I wasn't sure if it was normal practice or not?

just make sure if you take him, you put a retainer in place for the other two days hon. I think some people's business sense can be a bit unethical. Better to start off on the right foot.

PixiePetal
25-02-2010, 09:53 PM
I like to think I can offer continuity of care :thumbsup:

I did have a decision to make last year when 2 sibling mindees came to see me for 2 full days - I could fit them both if I gave notice to a 4 hour once a week mindee. The difference of £145 to £16 was understandably a big factor!

I explained to mum of 4 hour mindee, she was very understanding and I offered a swap of days which she took - wanting also to support me in my situation, worked out well for all.

Then I moved 6 months later, siblings gave notice and other lo went to nursery anyway :laughing:

Probey9
25-02-2010, 09:54 PM
That poor child, perhaps it's for the best he will be going to someone else, hopefully someone who is more loyal to him and his family!!

My answer would have been sorry, I 'm full, can't take anyone else on, this childminder gives the rest of a bad name!!!

The Juggler
25-02-2010, 10:06 PM
I like to think I can offer continuity of care :thumbsup:

I did have a decision to make last year when 2 sibling mindees came to see me for 2 full days - I could fit them both if I gave notice to a 4 hour once a week mindee. The difference of £145 to £16 was understandably a big factor!

I explained to mum of 4 hour mindee, she was very understanding and I offered a swap of days which she took - wanting also to support me in my situation, worked out well for all.

Then I moved 6 months later, siblings gave notice and other lo went to nursery anyway :laughing:

I think that when a 4 hour/week is stopping you taking on what little work there is, there is a good argument for this. but, you did the right thing and offered the mum an option.

francinejayne
25-02-2010, 10:13 PM
just make sure if you take him, you put a retainer in place for the other two days hon. I think some people's business sense can be a bit unethical. Better to start off on the right foot.

Thanks I will bear it in mind if he does come to me. His parents live in the next town to me so I would have thought they will try and find someone closer to home anyway. What would you charge as a retainer in this situation?

Blaze
25-02-2010, 10:15 PM
That poor child, perhaps it's for the best he will be going to someone else, hopefully someone who is more loyal to him and his family!!

My answer would have been sorry, I 'm full, can't take anyone else on, this childminder gives the rest of a bad name!!!

Thanks!:rolleyes:

The Juggler
25-02-2010, 10:28 PM
Thanks I will bear it in mind if he does come to me. His parents live in the next town to me so I would have thought they will try and find someone closer to home anyway. What would you charge as a retainer in this situation?

at least half I would say.

wendywu
26-02-2010, 12:14 AM
You dont know the CM may have asked for a retainer but the parents refused. Maybe they only want to pay for 3 days but use a full time place. It has been known :panic:

We may be trashing the poor woman before we know the full facts.:panic:

The Juggler
26-02-2010, 09:03 AM
You dont know the CM may have asked for a retainer but the parents refused. Maybe they only want to pay for 3 days but use a full time place. It has been known :panic:

We may be trashing the poor woman before we know the full facts.:panic:

that's true. she may have tried to introduce it before then going and looking for alternate mindee. she may even have told them she was going to do that.:blush:

kindredspirits
26-02-2010, 09:37 AM
i would have given notice - or asked the parents to increase their fees. i have before turned down a full time mindee in favour of a current mindee who i only had 1 day a week - two weeks later the parents gave me notice as they were putting her in a nursery instead.
i stop and think that these parents do not hesitate to do what they want whether its best for their child or not. if another minder approached them and offered to have the child for 3 day a week but they only had to pay for 1 then they wouldn't hesitate to change minders.

Mouse
26-02-2010, 09:42 AM
i would have given notice - or asked the parents to increase their fees.

Imagine if you employed a builder to do some work for you, agreed a fee & signed a contract.
How would you feel if, part way through the job, they came to you and said they'd been offered other work that paid better & your option was to pay more or they'd give you notice & go for the other job instead?

Isn't that the same? You take on a child at an agreed rate, knowing that you're perhaps missing out on your full earnings potential, but that's your choice at the time.

Twinkles
26-02-2010, 10:13 AM
Imagine if you employed a builder to do some work for you, agreed a fee & signed a contract.
How would you feel if, part way through the job, they came to you and said they'd been offered other work that paid better & your option was to pay more or they'd give you notice & go for the other job instead?

Isn't that the same? You take on a child at an agreed rate, knowing that you're perhaps missing out on your full earnings potential, but that's your choice at the time.

The difference being a builders job will affect his income for a few weeks or months at most.He can then accept a more lucrative job.

Our job will affect our income indefinately.

If it came to me struggling financially or doing something that would help my family I'd give notice too.
As others have pointed out we don't know the cm's financial position.

jelly15
26-02-2010, 10:27 AM
I like to think I make a commitment to the families I work with and in that situation I would have carried on with the first family, however, I would have charged a retainer for the other days from the off.

I did explain to one parent who was trying to reduce my fees, by taking LO to preschool herself, then going to work 30 miles away and expecting me to be on call in emergency but not pay for those two hours (£30 a week to me). I said that I would but if someone came along wanting a full day place I would give notice to her.

Although I try to be fair some parents want it all their own way and not see it from my point of veiw at all, but when all is said and done my family come first to me as their do to them.

georgie456
26-02-2010, 10:38 AM
I would definitely stick with the original child.

I had this situation last year when a full timer came my way. The space was already filled with a child who came 2 days a week. I never considered giving notice to the part timer - he had been with me for so long and I would have felt terrible.

Instead, I applied for a variation, it was granted and I got to have both children :D

MissTinkerbell
26-02-2010, 10:42 AM
Its a difficult one and I'm not really sure what I would do and I suppose it depends whether that is your only under 5 space or not. We do not know the other CMs circumstances so its hard to say. Personally in this situation I wouldn't have accepted the part-timer in the first place as at the moment I only have 1 under 5 space but if I did have the child I wouldn't have given notice.

I had a similar situation whereby my old parents wanted me to have my old mindee and her baby brother in September but my stumbling block was a little girl I had for 4 hours per week - so effectively I would have had to turn down 2 full time spaces for 4 hours a week. Luckily I didn't have to give notice because dad had been posted and she leaves me end of the month so my dilemma was solved - but I would have felt so guilty about this despite the difference being £21 per week compared to £270 per week.

Pudding Girl
26-02-2010, 10:48 AM
That poor child, perhaps it's for the best he will be going to someone else, hopefully someone who is more loyal to him and his family!!

My answer would have been sorry, I 'm full, can't take anyone else on, this childminder gives the rest of a bad name!!!

Harsh.

I have done this in the past and would do it again if I had to. Continuity of care is all well and good but it doesn't pay my bills. I am a business not a charity.

When taking on a child for such a small contract I always make sure the parents know if someone wants the ft space, they'll be given option to change or will have to go.

Pudding Girl
26-02-2010, 10:49 AM
We may be trashing the poor woman before we know the full facts.:panic:


Exactly. We don't know the full circs of the CMs personal/financial details and also of the agreement made between the cm and parents, and so shouldn't rush in to judge.

little chickee
26-02-2010, 11:16 AM
I think what i would do is keep the original mindee but have a contract review suggesting the retainer for the days not used.

I too would not take on a 3 day over 5 day contract - i would not want to tie up 2 days with no pay.

Unless i already had problems with the first mindee and was looking for an excuse to terminate i would carry on.

Hebs
26-02-2010, 11:26 AM
I have R aged 3 on a wed and thurs, i wouldnt dream of terminating his contract to take a full timer instead :panic:

i adore him and his older brother, mum relies on me, and i now know that come sept she wants me to have R full time, which is great cos i dont have the stress of settling another child in :thumbsup:

I have G aged 2 4 days out of 5, i explained to mum that to keep ALL 5 days open she would need to pay for the 5, as her day off changes every week i couldnt even offer the 1 days a week to someone else,

these decisions need to be made and sorted before they become a problem that ultimatly the child pays for :(

michellethegooner
26-02-2010, 11:47 AM
I agree with a lot of the posts, if this case was as it is written then I wouldnt have given notice, I would have explained the situation / applied for a variation etc. I had it in the past where lo would come to me 3 days out of 5 but would change from week to week, so I explained to mum at initial meeting that either she paid for the 5 days or if a full time came along I would have to give her notice, she ended up falling pregnant again within 2 mths of starting with me and stopped working so lo left anyhow.

this job is never black & white, sometimes u have to make a decision that YOU feel is right, another example I had was 2 parents wanted a space 1 full time 5days a wk another only 5 sessions awk (am.s only), i had the space but didnt want 2 give up a full time space to a part timer, took on the 2 children with a variation as both were under 1 at the time, few mths later my ft moved up north, & my part timers sessions changed to 3 full days, now a year & 1/2 on she is here ft 5 days a week, mum due 2nd baby in may and I will have new baby ft in august, just as well I took on the part timer I didnt really want :rolleyes:

Pipsqueak
26-02-2010, 11:51 AM
I have read this thread with interest and I can see it from the 2 angles.

If we were comfortably (financially) ok then no I would probably keep on a part timeer over the full timer. Why bust my guts when I don't have to, the original commitment etc.

BUT - in the place we find ourselves in again - work is sparse for hubs and me - yes I would drop a part time for a full timer - so I can pay bills, put food in my childrens mouths, get them new shoes etc. Of course I would feel guilty but I would feel even worse if my kids were going hungry and I turned down full time work when I could have taken it.

Again its down to personal circumstances.

Just because we do whats right for our families (after all thats why we are working isn't it) doesn't mean we don't give a stuff about the clients. Thats our problems half the time isn't it - we too often put the clients/contracts first over our own wellbeing. Hearts ruling heads rather than the other way round - but thats what makes us unique in childcare.

Gizmo
26-02-2010, 12:00 PM
This is a really interesting thread
My 1st mindees mum worked 3 days over 5 and I said she would have to pay for the full week as I wouldnt be able to fill the other 2 days this was fine and mum ended up sending the lo on her days off (dont ask) mums circumstances changed and she cut the days back to 2 days per week, I told her at the time that if I got a call for full time I would have to give notice, the lo is due to start nursery next month and I still havent been told if I will have her for the 2 days or not

wendywu
26-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Part timers are fine because you can fit other mindees in around them.

The problem with this case was parents paying for 3 days but keeping the other two days open.:(

The minder may have been new and did not realise that she could ask for a retainer for the other two days, any number of factors could have happened.

There is nothing to stop the parent offering to pay for the 5 days if she wants to keep the minder.

But somehow i very much doubt that, dont you :thumbsup:

Mollymop
26-02-2010, 01:27 PM
I agree with what Wendy says above - I think the childminder should ask for retainer to keep the 2 free days open. I wouldn't, myself, lose the child for another who is more money as I would hate to lose a child whom I have become attached.

Imagine if we terminated a contract in favour of another only to find that the new child/parents are a pain in the butt - none payers, etc.

kindredspirits
26-02-2010, 01:50 PM
i think the issue is really down to whether or not you may have needed the money to survive - if the parents expected 5 days being kept for 3 days pay then the minder was really stuck. it is not a nice position to be in wondering how you are going to pay the bills each month, or make decent food come out of thin air half the time.
some people do this job as a second income and some do it to pay their rent/mortgage with no additional help - its not fair to judge this cm on what you would do when you have no idea if you are in the same boat.

The Juggler
26-02-2010, 02:19 PM
i think the issue is really down to whether or not you may have needed the money to survive - if the parents expected 5 days being kept for 3 days pay then the minder was really stuck. it is not a nice position to be in wondering how you are going to pay the bills each month, or make decent food come out of thin air half the time.
some people do this job as a second income and some do it to pay their rent/mortgage with no additional help - its not fair to judge this cm on what you would do when you have no idea if you are in the same boat.

I think so too, at teh end of the day, if you really do need the money to survive then I would probably consider it. But, I would speak to the original parents and give them the option of paying the retainer first before giving notice to take on the new child - they may be prepared to do that to keep you.

Pudding Girl
26-02-2010, 02:23 PM
Anyway most parents generally don't give two hoots about giving notice/changing providers/etc at the drop of a hat to save a bit of money/time/effort/whatever. Bit of a generalisation I know but it's true inmy experience. Only ever a week or two away from your income being taken away anyway.

little chickee
26-02-2010, 02:45 PM
Anyway most parents generally don't give two hoots about giving notice/changing providers/etc at the drop of a hat to save a bit of money/time/effort/whatever. Bit of a generalisation I know but it's true inmy experience. Only ever a week or two away from your income being taken away anyway.

I actually agree with this - i have had parents argueing over a few pounds etc so i think that if the money is an issue - and lets face it thats why we work - the business head has to go on.

francinejayne
26-02-2010, 04:00 PM
An update on this - apparently the mindess parents didn't want to pay for 5 days as the were only using 3 - even tho the Cm couldn't get anyone in the other 2 days!
After readin everyones comments, I personally would have spoken with them and explained the situation and given themthe decision - change the contract to pay a retainer, or terminate. I just think it's a bit harsh to not give them the option.
The really interesting thing is - [B]if/B] the parents do come to speak about me looking after their LO, I have decided I will have to charge them a retainer - so they may well go elsewhere!!!
Thanks everyone - it is a tricky one isn't it!

wendywu
26-02-2010, 04:20 PM
[
QUOTE=francinejayne;650244]An update on this - apparently the mindess parents didn't want to pay for 5 days as the were only using 3 - even tho the Cm couldn't get anyone in the other 2 days!
After readin everyones comments, I personally would have spoken with them and explained the situation and given themthe decision - change the contract to pay a retainer, or terminate. I just think it's a bit harsh to not give them the option.

But you have just said they did not want to pay for any extra time only what they used.

I dont think the CM was being harsh at all. And if you have to resort to the " do this or end the contract " then it leads to a lack of trust and bad feeling and does not bode well for the future of the working partnership.
The parents want it all their own way.:mad:

The CM has only covered her own back and replaced the child before she gives notice.

MarpleJollytots
26-02-2010, 05:19 PM
I agree with Debbie,i dont think it would be professional and it wouldnt be in the best interests of the mindee you have at the moment.If i did do it i would feel too guilty.Sorry xxxx:(

~Chelle~
26-02-2010, 05:24 PM
I have just had this dilemma and I personally I felt that I have to provide care for the children that I currently look after, even tho I would be earning more money :o(

wendywu
26-02-2010, 05:27 PM
But what would you do Chelle if you realised that through no fault of anyone you had saddled yourself with an unfair and not common practice, contract.:(

~Chelle~
26-02-2010, 05:44 PM
But what would you do Chelle if you realised that through no fault of anyone you had saddled yourself with an unfair and not common practice, contract.:(

Then I would seriously consider terminating contract. At the end of the day, you have to be happy in what you do and if a mindee isnt working out for you the way it should, then you have no option than to terminate.

I am lucky at the moment in that I love all the mindees and dont have any problems regarding contracts and payment and they are all well behaved.

I have had serious problems in the past with a couple of ex mindees parents, one of them actually made me very ill and I seriously thought of giving it up. I had a lot of support and stuck up for myself and gave notice and have never felt happier.

You have to do what is right for you and your family but just be careful that you dont upset people along the way as a good reputation is important in this job.

Goodness, dont I waffle on lol x

Curly Quavers
26-02-2010, 05:45 PM
firstly I wouldn't of given the first family the flexi contract in the first place.

If I did find my self in this situation I would say to the first family they either need to pay for 5 days (in order to have flexibility) or go to 3 set days per week or loose the space. I think she needs to give the first family to chance to make changes. If they can not agree only then give notice and take on the other family and earn more.

wendywu
26-02-2010, 05:47 PM
[
You have to do what is right for you and your family but just be careful that you dont upset people along the way as a good reputation is important in this job.

Very true and well said :thumbsup:

~Chelle~
26-02-2010, 06:26 PM
[

Very true and well said :thumbsup:

Thanks :blush:

Chatterbox Childcare
26-02-2010, 07:00 PM
You dont know the CM may have asked for a retainer but the parents refused. Maybe they only want to pay for 3 days but use a full time place. It has been known :panic:

We may be trashing the poor woman before we know the full facts.:panic:

Maybe but then she shouldn't have taken the child on in the first place in my opinion but she may have been new too and not known. We all make mistakes but live and learn.