View Full Version : Signing in book
Had my dw round on Wednesday and she says I need to have a signing in and out book for the mindees showing the EXACT time that they come and go.
Up to now I've only used the attendance register but that shows the contracted hours and all of mine arrive later (and occasionally leave earlier) than the contract states. She says I need to do this to cover myself in case there was an incident and they try and make out the child was being cared for by me at that time.
I know one of my parents won't be thrilled at having to sign something else - especially as she's normally running late in the mornings :rolleyes:
Do I need a seperate page for each child for confidentiality reasons? Or can it be an ongoing list on A4 paper?
Blaze
07-02-2010, 05:00 AM
The contract shows the contracted hours. The attendance register shows the exact time & this is signed by the parents (I use NCMA ones) ...it 's not just to cover yourself if there is a problem - it also covers you re payments as well - & yes each child has to have a separate page for confidentiality reasons.
HTH:)
grindal
07-02-2010, 07:43 AM
i use NCMA attendance register too. You write in the time mindees arrive and depart. Parent just needs to sign at the end of the week. Does not need to be signed every time they drop off and collect.
mama2three
07-02-2010, 07:45 AM
mine shows exact times , and remember to sign them out for playgroups / nursery etc , which i wasnt doing until recently. the register is used as part of emergency evac to identify who should be present ( even though we would know of course!) Parents sign mine but there was a thread a few weeks ago and most answers were that they didnt get parents to sign them.
louised
07-02-2010, 08:27 AM
I write in exact times on my attendance record but I don't get parents to sign anymore
sweets
07-02-2010, 09:18 AM
that blue NCMA attendance book drove me mad! lol. could never find the right page for each child and hated asking parents to sign on a friday when they just want to go home. i would have been ok if i could have fitted the book in my hallway buts its tiny and i kept forgetting to take it to the door so paretns ended up signing for a few weeks at a time:blush:
i have now ditched the book (stored it upstairs) and i got my sister to make me a template of attendance theat fits 2 months on one page and paretns only sign it monthly rather than weekly.its works much better.
you dont actually have to have the paretns signature at all but i think having a monthly one is good.
Ripeberry
07-02-2010, 09:44 AM
I use the blue NCMA register and record the time the parent arrives at my door.
I fill it in when they get on my doorstep and then when they leave, I sign it when they have actually left (after having 10 min chat :rolleyes: ).
But one thing I think I've been doing wrong is that the register is kept in the house and when I collect my other mindee from pre-school, I sign their register at 12.30 (collection time) and then when I get home I fill in MY register showing 12.45 (when we get in).
I just don't like taking the register with me in the car. I have written on the first page that 12.45 is when we get into the house and that the journey is straight from pre-school to my home.
Hope Mrs O doesn't pick me up on this :(
caz3007
07-02-2010, 09:45 AM
I adapted a sheet from the Bromley site so that parents only signed monthly.
Must admit my DO told me to get parents to initial every day, like they are going to want to do that, its hard enough to remember and to get them to sign monthly.
Tatjana
07-02-2010, 10:12 AM
mine shows exact times , and remember to sign them out for playgroups / nursery etc , which i wasnt doing until recently. the register is used as part of emergency evac to identify who should be present ( even though we would know of course!) Parents sign mine but there was a thread a few weeks ago and most answers were that they didnt get parents to sign them.
Isn't this only if they won't be in your care? The register is to show when you're caring for the child, not when you aren't at home.
xx
hello kitty
07-02-2010, 11:07 AM
Each of my mindees have a sheet and I log in the exact arrival time and departure time and parents sign them in and out. Never been an issue as we are usually chatting at the same time. Also when it comes to issuing invoices and I put in overtime they cannot argue with it as they signed to say what time they left. :D
Right well this is where the confusion comes in!!
I've been using the NCMA attendance register and I understood it that you put in the contracted hours, however it says on the front page - 'The attendance register is designed to record both the hours for which you are expecting to be paid and the hours during which children are in your care' Well how do you record both?
An example in the book is this - 1 September (Sarah Smith) Friday 3.15pm - 5.30pm and at bottom it says Fri 3.15 - 4.00 ballet. So the childminder is being paid from 3.15pm but the child is not with her until 4.00pm.
My situation is this: Mum takes 4 year old to school in the morning then brings 9 mth old sister to me. She is contracted from 9.15am but hasn't been arriving until nearly 9.30am recently. I collect 4 year old from nursery at 11.30am. So I have been putting in my attendance register 9.15am - 3.15pm (6 hours) for both of them as that's what they pay me for, and then in non-attending hours on F's page I put Nursery 9.15 - 11.30am so it shows she is not with me then.
The thing dw said was that if G doesn't arrive until 9.30am and there was an incident at 9.20am they could say she was with me and my book would suggest this! So she suggested a seperate signing in book to cover myself.
Have I been filling that attendance register in wrong or have I understood from the example that's how you should do it? (I use my attendance register to cross reference the hours I've been paid for in my accounts book so I thought they had to correspond?)
:confused:
P.S. She said the signing in book should be signed by parent when they arrive and again when they leave. In the case of the nursery child I should sign her in at 12.00 when we arrive back from nursery.
Sorry, just bumping up as I need to know if I've been filling the attendance register in wrong - got an inspection due in the next couple of weeks :panic:
nikim
07-02-2010, 06:57 PM
i got told off by mrs o for writing contracted times in my attendance register:blush: and i got marked down for it, it should be the actual times they are in your care , but your right the ncma book doesnt make it clear :mad: (i now use the morton michel one which i can photocopy and all children are on the same sheet for each week), if am collecting a child i put the time i took over care , i dont take it with me i just remember to write it down when i get home i dont get parents to sign either as its not a statutory requirement:)
i got told off by mrs o for writing contracted times in my attendance register:blush: and i got marked down for it, it should be the actual times they are in your care , but your right the ncma book doesnt make it clear :mad: (i now use the morton michel one which i can photocopy and all children are on the same sheet for each week), if am collecting a child i put the time i took over care , i dont take it with me i just remember to write it down when i get home i dont get parents to sign either as its not a statutory requirement:)
Oh dear :panic:
So how would you log the child that goes to nursery? I'm paid from 9.15am but I don't start taking care of her until 11.30am.
Blaze
08-02-2010, 02:01 AM
Your contracted times are in your contract...the fact that you collect the child from nursary (times/days etc) would either be in the additional notes section of your contract or could possibly be in your child info sheets (depending on how you do your paperwork)...you therefore write in your attendance register the times you actually care for the LO.
HTH:)
ChocolateChip
08-02-2010, 07:13 AM
I use the MM attendance sheets aswell, there is only one box per child for arrival and one for departure so I put a diagonal line across to split it so that I can accurately record the ones who are before/ after school, or the lo's who go to nursery. I put down the exact time to the minute that they are with me, eg for a schoolie this might be 7.37-9.01, 3.29- 6.04. The parents usually sign every few weeks to catch up
I am thinking of doing seperate sheets for each child though, as the confidentiality issue seems to keep cropping up, and it would be easier for the parents to get signed up.
miffy
08-02-2010, 07:40 AM
I made my own sheet up and I sign the children in and out - parents don't sign it.
I do a week on a page and sign them in (to the minute) they arrive in the morning then out (again, to the minute) when they leave at night. The schoolies are signed out for the time they're at school and anyone I drop off at playgroup the same until I pick up again.
Miffy xx
PixiePetal
08-02-2010, 08:11 AM
In the NCMA book it has contracted hours in the front bit - pages for each age group. So you can see you are not over numbers.
In the weekly pages are the actual times they are with you
little miss chatterbox
08-02-2010, 08:15 AM
Hi Cazz
On the NCMA book it shows the column for the hours, then underneath it says actual hours and then underneath that there is a box for non attending hours - I guess that's where you put your nursery hours?
Hope that helps?
nikim
08-02-2010, 08:23 AM
I am thinking of doing seperate sheets for each child though, as the confidentiality issue seems to keep cropping up, and it would be easier for the parents to get signed up.
am i missing something or being thick :blush: why would there be an issue with confidentiality if all your recording is in/out times ?
sarah707
08-02-2010, 08:30 AM
am i missing something or being thick :blush: why would there be an issue with confidentiality if all your recording is in/out times ?
Anything where you put children's information together on a page can be seen as a confidentiality issue.
It depends on your inspector really but the best advice seems to be to set up systems where information is separate.
Also with things like attendance records you need to keep each child's for 21 years and 6 months after they leave and it is much easier to pop them into their individual file and store them like that.
Hth :D
hello kitty
10-02-2010, 01:10 PM
Anything where you put children's information together on a page can be seen as a confidentiality issue.
It depends on your inspector really but the best advice seems to be to set up systems where information is separate.
Also with things like attendance records you need to keep each child's for 21 years and 6 months after they leave and it is much easier to pop them into their individual file and store them like that.
Hth :D
Actually you only need to keep attendance registers for 2 years. That is in line with the Early Years Register and also the Childcare Register, Compulsory and Voluntary parts. :) Hth
mama2three
10-02-2010, 03:03 PM
i thought it was 21 years as well - if they claim against you when they reach adulthood you can show whether or not they were in your care at a specific point.
the point about signing them out at nursery time is to do with evacuation i think - i know a cm who missed out on an outstanding and this was her only action so better to be safe than sorry. Im sure it depends on your inspector though.
hello kitty
10-02-2010, 05:30 PM
Have a look here:
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/Ofsted-home/Forms-and-guidance/Browse-all-by/Other/General/Factsheet-childcare-Requirements-for-the-Childcare-Register-childminders-and-home-childcarers/(language)/eng-GB
on page 6 it tells you how long certain documents need to be kept. :D
manjay
10-02-2010, 05:53 PM
My inspector said I was making unneccesary work for myself by using seperate pages and getting parents to sign. I now use a register style sheet with all the children on one page that she emailed to me:rolleyes: . I do however record the exact times the children are in my care. I have a lovely new clock in my porch so I can be sure. With regards to nursery runs I don't take my register with me but I do write the exact time the child was returned to my care when I get in.
Blaze
10-02-2010, 06:14 PM
It's EU law that states the 21 years...HTH
Minstrel
10-02-2010, 06:16 PM
Have a look here:
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/Ofsted-home/Forms-and-guidance/Browse-all-by/Other/General/Factsheet-childcare-Requirements-for-the-Childcare-Register-childminders-and-home-childcarers/(language)/eng-GB
on page 6 it tells you how long certain documents need to be kept. :D
I wouldn't dispute what is in the guide but as a precaution for yourself in a legal action against you- where would your evidence be if a child (now adult) claims they injured themselves permanently whilst in your care when you know they did not?
hello kitty
10-02-2010, 06:34 PM
I see your point but the Data Protection Act says we may not keep records longer than stipulated.
What a paradox, damned if you do and damned if you don't! :rolleyes:
hello kitty
10-02-2010, 06:37 PM
It's EU law that states the 21 years...HTH
Where is that?
Do we not follow UK Government Agency regulations ie Ofsted?
You know, you read one thing one place and then something else comes up somewhere else and you end up back at square one again! Don't you love paperwork?!
clorogue
10-02-2010, 08:09 PM
Just came across this thread - would really appreciate if anyone could give me a copy of the monthly/2 monthly attendance sheet - only if possible!! Basically to get as much information in a page as possible - save the trees!! Thank you!
Desi-101
10-02-2010, 10:31 PM
NCMA one is what I use and I know its a pain, but when I did my minding course it was highlighted how important it is to get the times right just in case something went wrong, and they highlighted the one case of a woman who went to jail for apparantly shaking a baby and it died, later when they went properly through the evidence it would have been impossible for her to have done it as it was shaken many hours before she had him. Its to cover yourself, I don't care how awkward it is for parents to keep signing things. It also makes parents aware that we are serious about our business and are professional in what we do - look after their most precious item...their children :D
loocyloo
10-02-2010, 11:32 PM
i finally have parents reminding me on their last day each week that they need to sign !!!!
i usually remember, but if i don't, they remind me! i was told by Ofsted at my first inspection that parents must sign weekly!
i use the ncma book, find it simple enough, and use the box and bottom to cover preschools/afterschool clubs etc.
i take my book to school one day a week, as that is where i had over a LO !!! there are a few of us who have parents signing in the playground!
xxx
maryp0ppins
15-02-2010, 03:21 PM
OMG
I have none signed :panic:
Nadine Beazley
15-02-2010, 03:46 PM
you only need to record the actual time that each child arrives to you and when they leave.
The hours in the contract are for your records only and do not need recording down every day that the childs in, Ofsted don't actually check your contracts and as long as parents sign once a month then you are covered.